The Hazards of Belief

kiffer

pauldla wrote: »

^^^

In a further statement the diocese said: "The Catholic Church cannot permit activities which have their origins in non-Christian religions to take place on Church premises.

So that's Christmas and Easter out the window too, then?

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Mark Hamill

pauldla wrote: »

^^^

In a further statement the diocese said: "The Catholic Church cannot permit activities which have their origins in non-Christian religions to take place on Church premises.

So that's Christmas and Easter out the window too, then?

Sure christianity itself originated from Judaism, so thats banned too

kylith

pauldla wrote: »

^^^



So that's Christmas and Easter out the window too, then?

I wouldn't count on it. Sure aren't Christmas trees expressly banned by the bible itself, but it sure doesn't stop the churches from sticking them up.

pauldla

kylith wrote: »

I wouldn't count on it. Sure aren't Christmas trees expressly banned by the bible itself, but it sure doesn't stop the churches from sticking them up.

“Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” (Jeremiah 10:2-4, KJV)

Gotta love that Bible!


Actually, looking at it again, isn't this an injunction against fixed Christmas trees? Portable ones may not be accursed in the eyes of the LORD.

Newaglish

What about artificial trees? Oddly enough there's no mention of plastic in the Bible at all.

Dades

Or dinosaurs.

kylith

Newaglish wrote: »

What about artificial trees? Oddly enough there's no mention of plastic in the Bible at all.

Well, presumably the petroleum that is used to make the tree is also the "work of the hands of the workman", and therefore also sacred.

seamus

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/26/i-deserve-gods-punishment/

No reason really why we should be shocked by this nonsense. Isn't self-hate the founding pillar of most religion?

Though I love the irony of trying to claim no link to any sect or cult. Uh, except Christianity?

Nodin

Dades wrote: »

Or dinosaurs.

Or Chinese people.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/26/i-deserve-gods-punishment/

No reason really why we should be shocked by this nonsense. Isn't self-hate the founding pillar of most religion?

Though I love the irony of trying to claim no link to any sect or cult. Uh, except Christianity?

:eek:
That's appalling

PopePalpatine

I had no idea Actor was an author!

Turtwig

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I had no idea Actor was an author!

Well he could be anything you wanted him to be. In fact, the reason he was obsessed by sodomy in the first place, was that he was trying to get into his role as a bisexual sex dominant. You know the way some actors need to live the lives of their characters?

Fortyniner

Hundreds of Nigerian muslim women on a pilgrimage to Mecca have been detained and deported because they did not have suitable male chaperones..

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/nigeria-saudi-arabia-muslim-women-pilgrims.html

Nodin

Fortyniner wrote: »

Hundreds of Nigerian muslim women on a pilgrimage to Mecca have been detained and deported because they did not have suitable male chaperones..

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/nigeria-saudi-arabia-muslim-women-pilgrims.html

Such a miserable shower.

fitz0

seamus wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/26/i-deserve-gods-punishment/

No reason really why we should be shocked by this nonsense. Isn't self-hate the founding pillar of most religion?

Though I love the irony of trying to claim no link to any sect or cult. Uh, except Christianity?

I read that quickly as Sauron rather than saviour.

FouxDaFaFa

I guess it's good to see justice done but it's depressing all the same. Poor girl was only 21 when her family killed her in a botched exorcism.

http://news.discovery.com/human/woman-murdered-exorcising-genie-120926.html

Mumtaz, who was six months pregnant, was found dead in July 2009; she had come to England a year earlier, moving from her native Pakistan as part of an arranged marriage. Mr. Mumtaz claimed that his wife's injuries were self-inflicted (i.e., she had strangled herself); the court rejected that defense, and sentenced other members of the family to between 13 and 15 years in prison.

Delirium

RCC in Germany now penalising Catholics who don't pay the Church tax.

Our take: It is common for church-goers to donate to their faith and for donors to enjoy privileges for those contributions. But the Catholic Church in Germany has the OK from the Vatican to penalize those who don't pay their membership tax.

WARSAW, Poland The German bishops' conference defended a controversial decree that said Catholics who stop paying a church membership tax cannot receive sacraments.

"There must be consequences for people who distance themselves from the church by a public act," said Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg, conference president, in defending the Sept. 20 decree.

"Clearly, someone withdrawing from the church can no longer take advantage of the system like someone who remains a member," he said at a news conference Monday as the bishops began a four-day meeting in Fulda. "We are grateful Rome has given completely clear approval to our stance."

The archbishop said each departure was "painful for the church," adding that bishops feared many Catholics were unaware of the consequences and would be "open to other solutions."

Link

I guess 9% of your gross monthly wage isn't much to guarantee eternal salvation :rolleyes:

Banbh

Could the Irish Catholic Church or the Lutharans not offer salvation at 8.75%?
There should be free competition across borders and no one national church should have a monopoly on eternal life within the EU.

Hotblack Desiato

Would be great if the church tax was introduced here. The (much smaller) number of people willing to do more than just tick a belief in a census box would be instantly apparent. Then we could shift the whole cost of religious child abuse onto the believers, why should the rest of us pay for something we had no responsibility for? The RCC would have to kick us non-payers out officially, something we can't achieve now, and we'd be guaranteed a non-church funeral which is what most non-believers want but few get.

pauldla

Banbh wrote: »

Could the Irish Catholic Church or the Lutharans not offer salvation at 8.75%?
There should be free competition across borders and no one national church should have a monopoly on eternal life within the EU.

They could go further, they could introduce loyalty cards which offer you a reduction off time in purgatory. Or have they tried something like that before?

fitz0

Get a stamp for each communion received. You can mark off Jesus' body parts every time you a eat a bit of him, until you have the full set!

5uspect

fitz0 wrote: »

Get a stamp for each communion received. You can mark off Jesus' body parts every time you a eat a bit of him, until you have the full set!

Just in time for the Young (Christian) Scientist competition?
This guy has the right idea.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100116065957AAcXYCu

Nodin

A theatre in southern Russia has stopped selling tickets to the musical "Jesus Christ Superstar" after prosecutors launched a probe into whether it is offensive to devout Christians, officials said Saturday.
Saint Petersburg's Rock Opera company was to perform the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical -- a 1970s classic that has been regularly performed in Russia -- at the Philharmonic in the southern city of Rostov-on-Don on October 18.
However prosecutors launched a probe after a group of local residents complained that the musical presented a distorted image of Jesus Christ.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120929-russian-theatre-shelves-offensive-jesus-christ-superstar

In fairness to the protesters, it has to be said that the Jesus in the play does not have a suitably large beard, going on the pics.

Gbear

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/26/its-for-your-good-let-me-finish-afghan-canadian-told-police-she-stabbed-daughter-with-kitchen-knife/

‘It’s for your good. Let me finish’: Afghan-Canadian mother told police she stabbed her daughter with a kitchen knife

It was June, 2010, Grand Prix weekend in downtown Montreal, and on two straight nights the 19-year-old stayed out past dawn against her parents’ wishes.

Earlier in the interrogation, Sgt.-Det. Bertrand has asked whether the knife blade was sharp. “No, it wasn’t,” she replied. “I wish it was. I wanted to give her the peace that she needed.”

**** religion. **** it right in the face.:mad:

pauldla

Gbear wrote: »

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09/26/its-for-your-good-let-me-finish-afghan-canadian-told-police-she-stabbed-daughter-with-kitchen-knife/



**** religion. **** it right in the face.:mad:

Ah now. You can't go condemning religion just because of the psychos. Or the paedophiles. Or the snake-oil merchants. Or the fanatics. Or the ones who pervert the course of justice. Or the abusers. Or the mysoginists. Or the mutilaters of children. Or the ones who kill in the name of God. Or...

donspeekinglesh

http://www.thejournal.ie/magdalene-laundry-true-story-margaret-bullen-samantha-long-614350-Sep2012/

Truly horrific what the church have gotten away with in this county.

joseph brand

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/magdalene-laundry-true-story-margaret-bullen-samantha-long-614350-Sep2012/

Truly horrific what the church have gotten away with in this county.

And I always thought that the Gulags were only in Russia. The church was in the business of slavery but now just deals in mental slavery, or as Hitchens puts it:
‘And over us, to supervise this, is installed a celestial dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea.’

A supreme being who watches your every movement, knows all your thoughts and will punish you for your sins, unless you confess, pray and put ca$h in the basket.

Power and Wealth. Power and Wealth.

FouxDaFaFa

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/magdalene-laundry-true-story-margaret-bullen-samantha-long-614350-Sep2012/

Truly horrific what the church have gotten away with in this county.

I'm probably overtired but I cried reading that. That poor, poor woman. They took her life away from her and made it a truly miserable existence. She didn't deserve that.

I feel like I'm forever typing the phrase "poor woman" in this forum.

Kivaro

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I feel like I'm forever typing the phrase "poor woman" in this forum.

You have to wonder why women are usually the most devoted in religious sects (e.g. Catholicism).

pauldla

Kivaro wrote: »

You have to wonder why women are usually the most devoted in religious sects (e.g. Catholicism).

joseph brand wrote: »

Power and Wealth. Power and Wealth.

I think Joe has hit the nail square on the head. It's all about power.

magicbastarder

koth wrote: »

I guess 9% of your gross monthly wage isn't much to guarantee eternal salvation :rolleyes:

they can't even get a tithe right.

GLaDOS

Pope still hates gay people

http://www.care2.com/causes/pope-decides-gay-people-arent-fully-developed-humans.html

Dades

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Pope still hates gay people

http://www.care2.com/causes/pope-decides-gay-people-arent-fully-developed-humans.html

I'd imagine the feeling's mostly mutual.

Sarky

I wouldn't be so sure. I'd say a few gay people at least like the pope. They like him very much. I'd love to see how Pope Benny (wham ba dam) would react to a similar campaign to what George Takei did with a homophobic basketball player a while ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s1iQODC5OI

Bannasidhe

Dades wrote: »

I'd imagine the feeling's mostly mutual.

Sadly, it's not....:(

kylith

I wish I could thank that Takei video a hundred times. He's just wonderful.

robindch

The tail comes back to bite the dog. Or something:

Egypt: Islamic cleric faces blasphemy charge (against christian beliefs)

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129305539769859.html

Al Jazeera wrote:

Ahmed Abdallah, a Muslim television preacher in Egypt, has been charged with blasphemy for allegedly desecrating a copy of the Bible.

Abdallah was videotaped burning the Christian holy book in a protest in Cairo earlier this month.

The preacher's case, along with cases of alleged blasphemy committed by Egypt's Christian minority, have led some to campaign for the country's laws to be revised to ensure the regulations are not being abused by lawmakers and prosecutors.

Pakistan: Muslims accused of blasphemy (against hindu beliefs)

http://www.thejournal.ie/pakistan-blasphemy-618249-Oct2012/

The Journal wrote:

PAKISTAN’S BLASPHEMY LAWS may be used to punish Muslims suspected of ransacking a Hindu temple, an intriguing twist for a country where harsh laws governing religious insults are primarily used against supposed offences to Islam, not minority faiths.

The blasphemy laws, sections of which carry the death penalty or life imprisonment, have drawn renewed international scrutiny this year after a young Christian girl in Islamabad was alleged to have desecrated the Muslim holy book, the Quran. A Muslim cleric now stands accused of fabricating evidence against the girl, who has been freed on bail and whose mental capacity has been questioned.

Police officer Mohammad Hanif said Sunday the anti-Hindu attack took place Sept. 21. The government had declared that day a national holiday — a “Day of Love for the Prophet” — and called for peaceful demonstrations against an anti-Islam film made in the US that has sparked protests throughout the Muslim world. Those rallies took a violent turn in Pakistan, and more than 20 people were killed.

Hanif said dozens of Muslims led by a cleric converged on the outskirts of Karachi in a Hindu neighbourhood commonly known as Hindu Goth. The protesters attacked the Sri Krishna Ram temple, broke religious statues, tore up a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu scripture, and beat up the temple’s caretaker, Sindha Maharaj.

“The attackers broke the statues of (Hindu deities) Radha, Hanuman, Parwati and Krishna, and took away the decorative gold ornaments,” Maharaj said. “They also stormed my home and snatched the gold jewellery of my family, my daughters.” Maharaj and other Hindu leaders turned to the police, who registered a case against the cleric and eight other Muslims. But none of the suspects had been found as of Sunday, police said.

[...]

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

The tail comes back to bite the dog. Or something:

Egypt: Islamic cleric faces blasphemy charge (against christian beliefs)

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129305539769859.html


Pakistan: Muslims accused of blasphemy (against hindu beliefs)

http://www.thejournal.ie/pakistan-blasphemy-618249-Oct2012/

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!

robindch

Science Wins.

Proxima Centauri wrote: »

National Trust puts creationism on show at new Giants causeway visitor centre

National Trust removes creationism from show at new Giants causeway visitor centre.

There's a cracking graphic in the middle of the article. In all fairness, it's a bit below the belt, but then again, if everything were fair, this news story wouldn't exist. Here's Fionn with a big smile on his face:



"According to myth the Giant's Causeway was built by giant Fionn McCool"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19814284

BBC wrote:

Trust amends Causeway centre 'Creationist' exhibit

The National Trust has amended a controversial exhibition at the new Giant's Causeway visitor centre.

An audio exhibit revealed how people's explanation of how the Causeway was formed developed as scientific understanding improved. Creationists believe the Causeway was formed 6,000 years ago. The vast majority of scientists say it was formed 60m years ago. The trust says it has always supported the "scientific view" of its formation.

The Causeway is a Unesco World Heritage Site and features more than 40,000 interlocking basalt columns. The £18.5m centre was opened on 3 July. The National Trust decided to carry out a review of the exhibit after the creationist element provoked what it termed a "wide and mixed response". In July, an online campaign to remove it began.

A new piece of audio, approximately 20 seconds long, now replaces the previous recording. Graham Thompson, project director for the Giant's Causeway, said the change would clear up "any misunderstanding there may have been". He said: "The National Trust only endorses the scientific explanation of the origins of the stones, yet recognises that others have alternative beliefs. "The National Trust is content that this review is complete."

Previously the audio which accompanied the exhibit said that questions had been raised about the formation of the rocks. "Young Earth Creationists believe that the earth was created some 6000 years ago," it said. "This is based on a specific interpretation of the bible and, in particular, the account of creation in the book of Genesis," it said. "Some people around the world, and specifically here in Northern Ireland, share this perspective."

The new audio now says there is a "clear understanding among scientists that the heat of the earth was the driving force behind the formation of the Giant's Causeway". It adds that the earth is "far older than had previously been thought". "All the scientific evidence points to a volcanic origin for the columns of the Giant's Causeway, around 60m years ago. "However, not everyone agrees with the scientific view. There are some people who believe - often for religious reasons - that the earth was formed more recently: thousands of years ago rather than billions."

According to myth, the Giant's Causeway was built by giant Fionn McCool.

Genghiz Cohen

I've wondered about the person who designed those character faces.
The hero is blonde haired and blue eyed. The villain is middle-eastern looking with a beard and a large nose.

Bannasidhe

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I've wondered about the person who designed those character faces.
The hero is blonde haired and blue eyed. The villain is middle-eastern looking with a beard and a large nose.

Sure everyone knows the Gaelic Irish all had blond hair and blue eyes - just like Jesus.

recedite

Fionn is Irish for "fair" or blonde so its not unreasonable to suppose he was that, but it does seem odd that the Scottish lad looks like "a Jew" caricature from a 1930's Munich newspaper.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

The tail comes back to bite the dog. Or something:

Egypt: Islamic cleric faces blasphemy charge (against christian beliefs)

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129305539769859.html


Pakistan: Muslims accused of blasphemy (against hindu beliefs)

http://www.thejournal.ie/pakistan-blasphemy-618249-Oct2012/

Serves them right. It also shows the flaw in having a blanket law against blasphemy. EVERYTHING is blasphemous to someone. Won't be long before they try amend the laws so it is only illegal to blaspheme their own specific religion.

Hotblack Desiato

^ Cue endless arguments over which sect/interpretation of their religion is correct and which are sinful blasphemies... and to think that some posters in the 'what's good about religion' thread said it unites people :rolleyes:

postitnote

Thanks to the National Trust up at the Giant's Causeway growing some kahunas and standing up to the nutjobs up here. It's a pity it came to this in the first place, but I really hope it's the beginning of the end. The Gay Marriage vote in Stormont was only narrowly defeated too during the week. We've come a long way, but still have a hell of a lot further to go.

I find it increasingly difficult to vote for any of the Unionist parties up here because of their inability to seperate politics and religion. Do what you want on a Sunday, just don't tell me what to do, or make decisions on my behalf based on your interpretation of a book written oh so long ago.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

The tail comes back to bite the dog. Or something:

Egypt: Islamic cleric faces blasphemy charge (against christian beliefs)
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129305539769859.html

Pakistan: Muslims accused of blasphemy (against hindu beliefs)
http://www.thejournal.ie/pakistan-blasphemy-618249-Oct2012/

Ah, didn't take long to redress the balance. Here's a story about two Egyptian kids who were sent to a "detention facilty" for blasphemy. The kids are aged ten and nine. Elsewhere, a primary school teacher was hauled away and interrogated at the behest of one of her students for referring to Mohammad as "poor", or maybe "unfortunate", as the two words sound similar.

Lots of others have been charged with blasphemy too. World peace can be but days away.

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/two-minors-beni-suef-accused-blasphemy

Egypt Independent wrote:

Egyptian prosecutors are bearing witness to a wave of blasphemy accusations following the production of "Innocence of Muslims," a movie released this summer, as two Coptic minors and a teacher are referred to prosecution on religious blasphemy charges.

Prosecutors referred Nabil Nady Rizk, 9 and Mina Nady Farag, 10, to a juvenile detention facility Tuesday night after they were accused of urinating on two copies of the Quran in a Beni Suef village, according to Isaq Ibrahim, a researcher at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights. The defiled Qurans were reportedly found by a sheikh near Ezbet Marko’s village mosque in the Upper Egyptian city. The sheikh then brought the kids to the local bishop and insisted someone else had incited them to desecrate the Qurans and throw them near the mosque.

Ibrahim told Egypt Independent that the sheikh filed a complaint accusing the two of blasphemy at Fashin Police Station. The two minors, who denied the accusations, are expected to stand before the prosecution for the second time on Sunday. The incident came one day after a Coptic teacher was interrogated by the Assiut Prosecutor’s Office over accusations of blasphemy. Nevine al-Sayed, a preparatory school history teacher, was accused by one of her students of insulting the Prophet Mohamed while teaching a lesson about his life.

The teacher said that Prophet Mohamed was raised in a poor family, but according to the interrogation reports, the student said she described the Prophet as being “unfortunate,” a word that is very close to the word “poor” in Arabic. Sayed was released pending investigations on Thursday and left her home in Assiut fearing a violent reaction from the student’s family. “There have been more than 17 cases of religious blasphemy filed in front of the prosecution after the incident of the inflammatory movie against Prophet Mohamed,” Ibrahim said.

Insulting Islam and the prophet is considered a crime in Egypt under Article 98(f) of the Penal Code. The article states, “Confinement for a period of not less than six months and not exceeding five years ... shall be the penalty inflicted on whoever makes use of religion in propagating, either by words, in writing, or in any other means, extreme ideas for the purpose of inciting strife, ridiculing or insulting a heavenly religion or a sect following it, or damaging national unity.” Human rights activists say the article poses a threat to freedom of expression and that it has been used to suppress dissident voices.

In related news, the Nasr City Misdemeanor Court adjourned the trial of owner of Al-Umma channel Sheikh Ahmed Mohamed Mahmoud Abdallah, known as Abu Islam, his son and a reporter at Al-Tahrir newspaper to 14 October. The three are charged with blasphemy after allegedly burning a Bible during protests against the film “Innocence of Muslims.”

The Arabic Network of Human Rights Information, in a statement released Wednesday, slammed the recurring crackdowns on freedom of expression through religious blasphemy charges, deeming them a “general inclination by the state to silence opponents.”

“Blasphemy charges need to be reconsidered; they should be replaced with articles against hate speech that is accompanied with inciting violence. These articles should not be used to try people’s ideas,” the group said.

Galvasean

ninja900 wrote: »

^ Cue endless arguments over which sect/interpretation of their religion is correct and which are sinful blasphemies... and to think that some posters in the 'what's good about religion' thread said it unites people :rolleyes:

It does unite people... against other people.

pauldla

Galvasean wrote: »

It does unite people... against other people.

Of the 'there we stood, two against fifty, and we kicked the sh!t out of both of them' variety...

recedite

Galvasean wrote: »

EVERYTHING is blasphemous to someone. Won't be long before they try amend the laws so it is only illegal to blaspheme their own specific religion.

Ideally you would burn out any other religions. The problem of the blasphemy laws backfiring only arises because there is too much tolerance for unbelievers these days.

Bannasidhe

pauldla wrote: »

Of the 'there we stood, two against fifty, and we kicked the sh!t out of both of them' variety...

then we burned them or flung rocks at them until they were dead and yea our God was pleased.