The Hazards of Belief

Bannasidhe

Dades wrote: »

I'm glad we don't have crazy cults in Ireland ran by people wanting to be called Father this, or Father that...

Wouldn't that be Mad!

It would be like calling an 80 year old female virgin 'Mother Superior' - crazy stuff.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

I'm glad we don't have crazy cults in Ireland ran by people wanting to be called Father this, or Father that...

Absolutely not -- it's against god's law!:

Matthew 23:9 wrote:

Don’t call anyone on earth your father. All of you have the same Father in heaven.

I'm glad that god's law is unchanging and not at all relativist!

Nodin

A Republican US Senate candidate has come under fire for suggesting that pregnancies caused by rape were "something God intended to happen".

Mr Mourdock was asked during a debate with Democratic challenger Joe Donnelly whether he believed abortion should be allowed in cases of rape or incest.
"I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realise that life is that gift from God. And, I think, even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20054737

Another charmer.

Penn

robindch wrote: »

A suicidal doomsday cult from Brazil is saved from themselves in the nick of time. The comments of Officer Meneses, halfway down in bold, are elegantly understated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216743/Shots-fired-police-swoop-10-minutes-100-followers-Brazilian-doomsday-cult-commit-mass-suicide-world-ended.html

If the world was going to end, a) Why kill yourself? You'll die anyway, and b) Suicide is a sin, therefore you would be facilitating your own descent into Hell.

Daddy Luis must be very convincing. I mean, even if I did believe in God, those would be the first two queries I would have and would require a pretty good f*cking answer to make me agree to kill myself.

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20054737

Another charmer.

God intends for women to be raped.

And people still choose to follow him? I think I'd almost prefer Daddy Luis...

Hotblack Desiato

Dades wrote: »

I'm glad we don't have crazy cults in Ireland ran by people wanting to be called Father this, or Father that...

Ted: It's not as if everyone's going to go off and join some mad religious cult just because we go off for a picnic for a couple of hours.
Dougal: God, Ted, I heard about those cults. Everyone dressing in black and saying our Lord's gonna come back and judge us all!
Ted: No... No, Dougal, that's us. That's Catholicism.

Gbear

I wouldn't mind if it was in the comedy section or the religion section but this was in the property section of the Irish Times:

Meet the ghostbusters
Owning a home can be terrifying for all sorts of reasons, but what if your scares before bedtime aren’t financial but spectral? When things go bump in the night who do you call? Meet the real-life ghostbusters who check out paranormal activity, writes ALANNA GALLAGHER
[...]
One such site cleanser is Martin Flanagan. He describes geopathic stress as: “A disease of the earth, a contamination coming from water lines, from mineral contamination or from the people in the property.”

It can manifest itself in several ways, he says. “If a room is cold that is a sign of geopathic stress. Or if strange things happen, such as lights coming on when you’ve switched them off, or heating coming on by itself.” Where properties have been built on the sites of ancient graveyards or maybe have had something violent happen in them, it “distorts the energy in the house”, he says.

In Sweden and parts of Germany some councils require a geopathic stress test before granting planning permission. Ghosts are not always a bad thing though. Castle Leslie hotel in Co Monaghan has made its resident spooks a selling point.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2012/1025/1224325656678.html

Dades

And here's a thread in fact.

Gbear

Dades wrote: »

And here's a thread in fact.

Yeah, but I posted first so I win atheism.

Hotblack Desiato

ninja900 wrote: »

Ted: It's not as if everyone's going to go off and join some mad religious cult just because we go off for a picnic for a couple of hours.
Dougal: God, Ted, I heard about those cults. Everyone dressing in black and saying our Lord's gonna come back and judge us all!
Ted: No... No, Dougal, that's us. That's Catholicism.

Wow, probably the most thanks I'll ever get - why, thank yew - and it was a pretty obvious content-free Fr Ted quote-post I'd already posted here a few months ago :rolleyes: :pac: are standards slipping here :eek:

Hotblack Desiato

I look forward to a time when Fr Ted makes no more sense to the Irish people than Ancient Greek. A legacy of the far past that only a few feel the need to study. Still, I think you need to have been enrolled in an RCC school in the 70s to really get it

Nodin

SAN ANTONIO, Texas -- A critically acclaimed exhibit of Aphrodite opened to great fanfare at the San Antonio Museum of Art in September. But controversy is brewing over one of the exhibit's featured statuettes.

The museum tried to spread the word about this rare exhibit, so it put together an advertisement for Aphrodite.
The San Antonio Current, San Antonio Magazine, San Antonio Jewish Journal and San Antonio Business Journal didn't blanch whatsoever, and ran the ad.
But, others blushed...and censored it.

"Our visitors think this show is incredible," said SAMA director, Dr. Katie Luber.

SAMA takes great pride in its new Aphrodite exhibit. It is especially proud of a 2,000-year-old statuette of the Greek goddess emerging from the sea. But, it never really fathomed the controversy stirred by the ancient sculpture.

http://www.kvue.com/news/Naked-Aphrodite-stirs-SAMA-ad-controversy-175709981.html

This, afaik, is the debauched horror thats so shocked them....

robindch

Nodin wrote: »

This, afaik, is the debauched horror thats so shocked them....

I hope everybody remembers John Ashcroft and the errant nipple at the US Department of Justice?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/29/statues.htm

Another proud moment brought to you by the Republican Party!

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

I hope everybody remembers John Ashcroft and the errant nipple at the US Department of Justice?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/29/statues.htm

Another proud moment brought to you by the Republican Party!

Some people do get their holy knickers in a twist about the human body - you'd think they would be ok with it seeing as we are apparently made in the image of the creator they worship .

It would make more sense if they insisted on compulsory nudity so the creators handiwork could be viewed unhindered...*sigh*...I just don't understand how the religious mind works....

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

I hope everybody remembers John Ashcroft and the errant nipple at the US Department of Justice?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/01/29/statues.htm

Another proud moment brought to you by the Republican Party!

Who could forget John "let the Eagle soar" Ashcroft.

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I just don't understand how the religious mind works....

Jonathan Haidt's one of the better researchers in this area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs41JrnGaxc

Sulla Felix

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It would make more sense if they insisted on compulsory nudity so the creators handiwork could be viewed unhindered...*sigh*...I just don't understand how the religious mind works....

This sounds like a religion that I might be able to get behind.

Nodin

Sulla Felix wrote: »

This sounds like a religion that I might be able to get behind.

...until ye see me peel off the y-fronts.

ShooterSF

Sulla Felix wrote: »

This sounds like a religion that I might be able to get behind.

Oh you'd get more behind than you ever wanted!

bnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md18O3vHxcM

"That preaches in Texas, don't it? California, they're still looking at me sideways ..."

obplayer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224581/David-Jimenez-loses-leg-crucifix-prayed-cure-wifes-cancer-falls-him.html

Bannasidhe

obplayer wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224581/David-Jimenez-loses-leg-crucifix-prayed-cure-wifes-cancer-falls-him.html

One really shouldn't titter....


*snorts loudly*

fitz0

Daily Mail Article wrote:

As a result of the legal action, the church has removed the crucifix from the Church of St Patrick and moved it to another parish.

Lads, that's not the answer to every problem.

Sarky

I thought the cross just took its friendship with the man's leg too far.

robindch

Wonder if it's worth opening up a sticky on blasphemy, state crackdowns on secularists, non-conformists, LGBT etc.

Anyhow, Poland appears to be moving towards declaring blasphemy a legal offense:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2012/10/30/polish-court-rules-against-rocker-who-tore-up-bible-on-stage/

Reuters wrote:

Poland’s Supreme Court has opened the way for a blasphemy verdict against a rock musician who tore up a Bible on stage, a case that has pitted deep Catholic traditions against a new desire for free expression.

Adam Darski, front man with a heavy metal group named Behemoth, ripped up a copy of the Christian holy book during a concert in 2007, called it deceitful and described the Roman Catholic church as “a criminal sect”. His supporters say it was an act of artistic expression, but conservatives say he offended the sensibilities of Catholics in Poland, the homeland of the late Pope John Paul II and one of the religion’s most devout heartlands in Europe.

The Supreme Court was asked to rule on legal arguments thrown up by the musician’s trial in a lower court on charges of offending religious feelings. It said on Monday a crime was committed even if the accused, who uses the stage name Nergal, did not act with the “direct intention” of offending those feelings, a court spokeswoman said.

And Turkey bans a march in support of secularism:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/29/us-turkey-march-idUSBRE89S0R620121029

Reuters wrote:

Turkish police fired tear gas and water cannon to disperse thousands of secularists protesting at a banned rally in the capital on Monday against what they see as an increasingly authoritarian and Islamist government.

The scenes of chanting men and women draped in Turkish flags and carrying banners portraying the country's founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk highlight a longstanding division in Turkish society between staunch secularists on the one hand and more conservative religious Turks on the other. Although Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan won a third term in power last year with 50 percent of the vote, many secular Turks fear his socially conservative AK Party has Islamist tendencies that threaten the secular republic founded by Ataturk.

"They are trying to turn us into another Iran or some kind of neo-Ottoman Empire. We are against this," said retired 64-year-old Erdem Sevinc. "We are here today to send a message to those who are trying to destroy the principles of this republic," he said.

The local government in Ankara, also controlled by Erdogan's AK Party, banned the rally citing "intelligence" it would be used for "provocation", a move protesters said was designed to silence government opponents. "Why have they banned this march? Because they are scared. They are scared of course," said 68-year-old Metin Alkan, sporting a black tie emblazoned with Ataturk's face.

recedite

Nonetheless, the lawyer maintains that the church was negligent.

He said only one screw held the marble statue in place.

That gave way when Mr Jimenez scrubbed the statue

The statue is not the only one in that story with a screw loose :pac:

robindch

In Pakistan, protesters ransack a school whose headmaster is alleged to have acted in a manner perceived as contrary to the tenets of islam.

What's interesting here is that Pakistani law apparently says it's not enough just to snitch on people who blaspheme, but also to snitch on people who witness blasphemy but don't report it.

I'm open to correction here, but I don't believe that even the Russian Communists required this kind of third-order snitching.

http://dawn.com/2012/11/01/blasphemy-school-ransacked/

Dawn wrote:

LAHORE, Oct 31: A large number of protesters including religious groups’ activists ransacked a private school’s three buildings and torched owner’s car allegedly on charges of committing blasphemy in Ravi Road area on Wednesday.

It was alleged that the private school administration had distributed a paper among the students, which carried derogatory remarks about the Holy Prophet (PBUH) a few days ago.

Police have registered a case against the schoolteacher and the principal under section 295-C (blasphemy) of Pakistan Penal Code.

The principal has been booked and arrested under abetment charges because he did not take any action, when the incident came into his knowledge. Sources said both the teacher and the principal were in police custody. The police have also registered a case against unidentified protesters for taking law into their hands.

Sources in the police told Dawn that the protesters including religious groups’ activists took law into their hands and ransacked school’s three buildings and burnt owner’s car without investigating the issue.

Sources alleged that the case had been built on the basis of a photocopy, which carried derogatory remarks about the Holy Prophet. They claimed that the photocopy was of a book, of which a page was torn and the available pages’ text became blasphemous. Sources alleged that the person, who distributed the photocopy, had also translated the available English text into Urdu.

The residents of Ravi Road area had besieged the school building late on Tuesday night and continued to protest on Wednesday and eventually torched owner’s car and ransacked school’s three buildings in the area. The fire brigade was denied access to the area. A heavy contingent of police also clashed with protesters.

MNA Mian Marghoob and MPA Khwaja Imran Nazir urged the protesters to let the police investigate the matter. They assured the protesters that the government would also hold an inquiry into the incident and all those involved would be brought to book.

ShooterSF

Not only would the police investigate it but the government would hold an inquiry too. Wow they're dedicated to the upholding of the law. I wonder will the inquiry deal with the arson or vigilantism.

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

In Pakistan, protesters ransack a school whose headmaster is alleged to have acted in a manner perceived as contrary to the tenets of islam.

What's interesting here is that Pakistani law apparently says it's not enough just to snitch on people who blaspheme, but also to snitch on people who witness blasphemy but don't report it.

I'm open to correction here, but I don't believe that even the Russian Communists required this kind of third-order snitching.

...I think early Calvinists did, though. Cheerful lot.

Banbh

Not only did the Soviet Union - the "Russian Communists" as you say - require that citizens report law-breakers but it is general throughout the world, though until recently members of the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland claimed that this did not apply to them.

robindch

Banbh wrote: »

Not only did the Soviet Union - the "Russian Communists" as you say - require that citizens report law-breakers but it is general throughout the world, though until recently members of the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland claimed that this did not apply to them.

Yes. I probably should have made it clearer -- the idea that a person is guilty of a crime if he/she didn't report when somebody else commits a "crime" against an idea. So far as I'm aware, non-reporting of a crime is generally only criminal if the non-reported crime itself is criminal and most blasphemy laws (again so far as I'm aware) relegate blasphemy as a civil offence, or the equivalent in the legal system concerned.

robindch

^^^ On, cough, mature reflection, isn't blasphemy generally a criminal offence -- ie, one in which the state is aggrieved party, rather than a civil offence where some other citizen must initiate a prosecution?

Hotblack Desiato

All I said was, this piece of halibut... OW!

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Yes. I probably should have made it clearer -- the idea that a person is guilty of a crime if he/she didn't report when somebody else commits a "crime" against an idea. So far as I'm aware, non-reporting of a crime is generally only criminal if the non-reported crime itself is criminal and most blasphemy laws (again so far as I'm aware) relegate blasphemy as a civil offence, or the equivalent in the legal system concerned.

Puts me in mind of MacCarthyism - Are you a Commie? Do you know any Commie's. Why didn't you report them? Tell us their names now or else...

Turtwig

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Puts me in mind of MacCarthyism - Are you a Commie? Do you know any Commie's. Why didn't you report them? Tell us their names now or else...

Blackmailing a mod this never ends well. But we'll always have Dades anyway.
So long Rob.

Bannasidhe

Jernal wrote: »

Blackmailing a mod this never ends well. But we'll always have Dades anyway.
So long Rob.

Rob will be fine - he can always claim he's commie+

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Do you know any Commie's. Why didn't you report them? Tell us their names now or else...

robindch

Meanwhile, some more news in from the "Religion of Peace".

Mother murdered son for 'failing to learn the Koran'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9648856/Mother-murdered-son-for-failing-to-learn-the-Koran.html

Telegraph wrote:

Sara Ege used a stick to beat seven-year-old Yaseen “like a dog” if he couldn’t recite passages from the Islamic text. The beatings were so brutal that the boy died from his injuries, and his mother tried to burn the body to destroy the evidence, Cardiff Crown Court was told. Yaseen was originally thought to have died in the house fire. But a post-mortem examination showed Mrs Ege had been beating and abusing her little boy in the months leading up to his murder.

In a video recording of her interview with police, Mrs Ege told them: “I was trying to teach him the Koran. “I was getting more and more frustrated. If he didn’t read it properly I would be very angry — I would hit him. “We had a high target. I wanted him to learn 35 pages in three months. “I promised him a new bike if he could do it. But Yaseen wasn’t very good — after a year of practice he had only learnt a chapter.”

The court heard Mrs Ege, 32, a university graduate, and her husband, Yousuf, had enrolled Yaseen in advanced classes at their local mosque. They wanted him to become a hafiz — an Islamic term for someone who memorises the Koran.
Yaseen was coming to the end of a three-month trial period at the mosque, and Ege was keen for him to impress his Imam. Mrs Ege told officers: “I was getting all this bad stuff in my head, like I couldn’t concentrate, I was getting angry too much, I would shout at Yaseen all the time.”

She also hit him with a hammer, a rolling pin and a slipper, as well as repeatedly punching him, the court heard. She would allegedly lock him in the shed, tie him to a door, and force him to do press-ups. In the months after Yaseen’s death, Mrs Ege told a doctor she been told to kill him by Shaitan — an Islamic name for the devil, the court was told.
She said: “I have become so harsh, I even killed my own son.” Her husband, 38, denies causing or allowing the death of a child by not stopping the beatings.

The trial continues.

Acid attack pair killed daughter

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/acid-attack-pair-killed-daughter-3280496.html

Independent wrote:

Police in Pakistan have arrested a couple for allegedly killing their 15-year-old daughter by throwing acid on her because she supposedly had an affair with a boy, according to officials.

Local government official Masood-ur-Rehman says the couple were arrested on Tuesday in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

Police officer Imtiaz Ali says the parents confessed to killing the girl a day earlier because they believed she had sullied the family's honour.

He said on Friday that a post-mortem examination confirmed that the girl died of acid burns.

Honour killings are widespread in Pakistan, where scores of women are murdered every year for marriages or relationships not approved by their families.

Sarky

I sometimes miss dead one's attempts to blame heinous sh*t like that in the corrupt west...

fitz0

robindch wrote: »

Acid attack pair killed daughter

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/acid-attack-pair-killed-daughter-3280496.html

So, kissing someone sullies a family's honour but murder doesn't? Something is quite wrong with your moral compass if you can agree with this.

robindch

Straight from the desk of Captain F*cking Obvious, but it's interesting to see that somebody has finally woken up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/rowena-mason/9654502/Churches-not-necessarily-for-public-good-says-charity-watchdog.html

Telegraph wrote:

Churches not necessarily for public good, says charity watchdog

Its officials decided that religion is not always for “the public benefit” as it denied charitable status to the Plymouth Brethren, an exclusive Christian group, for one of its churches in Devon. In a letter to the Plymouth Brethren, the watchdog set out its most recent decision that “there is no presumption that religion generally, or at any more specific level, is for the public benefit, even in the case of Christianity or the Church of England”.

The Charity Commission has been in a long running battle with independent schools over how they should get charitable status. However, this is thought to be the first time it has denied the label to a religious group on the grounds that it does not advance public benefit. The Plymouth Brethren, an evangelical movement whose 16,000 believers try to keep themselves separate from the outside world, have been in a lengthy fight with the watchdog over the issue.

The group has already appealed to the charity tribunal and is intending to take its battle to the European Court of Human Rights if necessary. The letter emerged in evidence to the Public Administration Select Committee, which is investigating the work of the Charity Commission. Some MPs are now concerned that the commission could start denying charitable status to a growing number of religious groups.

Charlie Elphicke, a member of the committee and the MP for Dover and Deal, believes the commission is “committed to the suppression of religion”. At the hearing, he told the Plymouth Brethren elders that they were “the little guys being picked on to start off a whole series of other churches who will follow you there."

Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, has said he is a "very concerned" about the warning.

BTW, is the European Court of Human Rights good or bad these days? I can't keep up with the latest religious flip-flop.

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Straight from the desk of Captain F*cking Obvious, but it's interesting to see that somebody has finally woken up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/rowena-mason/9654502/Churches-not-necessarily-for-public-good-says-charity-watchdog.html



BTW, is the European Court of Human Rights good or bad these days? I can't keep up with the latest religious flip-flop.

Ah yes -The Plymouth Brethren. They really are some kind of special.
A certain infamous Mr Aleister Crowleywas raised Plymouth Brethren - here is just one of his tirades about them http://hermetic.com/crowley/worlds-tragedy/the-plymouth-brethren.html

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah yes -The Plymouth Brethren. They really are some kind of special.

Yes, I've come across them before. Popette was, mirabile dictu, involved with a similar crowd in Dublin years ago.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah yes -The Plymouth Brethren. They really are some kind of special.
A certain infamous Mr Aleister Crowleywas raised Plymouth Brethren - here is just one of his tirades about them http://hermetic.com/crowley/worlds-tragedy/the-plymouth-brethren.html

Interesting then that the infamous Mr.A.C. preached "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", considering what he attributes to the Plymouth Brethren in that passage! "....Of course the practice of finding a text for everything means ultimately “I will do as I like”"

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Interesting then that the infamous Mr.A.C. preached "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", considering what he attributes to the Plymouth Brethren in that passage! "....Of course the practice of finding a text for everything means ultimately “I will do as I like”"

It's all about the context innit.




:pac:

robindch

Catholic bishop admits - "We need to have less separation between Church and State”. Looks like he's pushing upwards to me.

http://dynamicshift.org/archives/influential-catholic-archbishop-end-church-state-separation

Dynamic Shift wrote:

The most powerful Catholic leader in Minnesota told a mother to either change her mind about her gay son or plan on going to hell. Which helps explain why many would like to tell Archbishop John Nienstedt to do the same.

What the heavenly response is to all this damnation is unknown. Except to a chosen few, if we are to believe them. Nienstedt seems confident God will support his judgments of the mother and countless others who’ve trespassed into his wrath over the years—many, like the mother, in relationship with GLBT people.

Whether Nienstedt has converted anyone in the three decades since his ordination is unclear. What is clear is that the bishop is not praised for being compassionate. Public consensus and Neinstedt’s own stiff communications convey little evidence he is. What all—including the Bishop—agree on, is that his motives extend well beyond his religion.

Politics needs Religion?

The man is on a political mission. He told me as much, himself.

I doubt Nienstedt expected his revelation would get much past our short but respectful conversation last December. Though I shared that my personal and professional values had me very concerned about institutionally propagandized polarization, including by religions. Still, we didn’t know each other until then. I’m sure if we had, the Bishop would never have spoken with me with such candor, if at all.

This was after a Mass in economically distressed North Minneapolis, Minnesota. Where in his sermon the bishop spoke of St. Peter, the “Rock” and founder of the Catholic church, who ominously “informed us that the world as we know it will be consumed in flames, giving way to a new heaven and a new earth.” It ended with Nienstedt’s “call to examine our consciences in regard to our daily attitudes and actions.” He posed rhetorical questions for all to consider: “What am I like when no one is looking? And how have I helped the poor? And “What kind of an example do I give others?”

These parting questions struck me as curious, given what I knew of the man. Still, I resisted the urge to judge. I hoped to take this rare opportunity to hear his views first hand. At a pancake breakfast in the church hall after Mass, I chose questions similar to his to orient our discussion and get a better sense of him.

[...]

pauldla

Thought this the best thread for this story.

TV3's psychics breach code again

A claim from TV3 that pregnancy is not “strictly considered to be a health issue” has been dismissed by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland as it upheld four complaints against the controversial Psychic Readings Live programme which the station broadcasts.
While TV3 did admit that "the provision of psychic services is not an exact science" it robustly defended the programme in the face of a growing number of complaints which accused it of exploiting vulnerable people for commercial gain.

Bet they didn't see that coming. (Sorry, it had to be said)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1109/breaking48.html

ShooterSF

pauldla wrote: »

Thought this the best thread for this story.

Bet they didn't see that coming. (Sorry, it had to be said)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1109/breaking48.html

What's the consequence of breaking the rules though? Will they be fined? Will they be made retract those statements on air?

Gbear

pauldla wrote: »

Thought this the best thread for this story.

Bet they didn't see that coming. (Sorry, it had to be said)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1109/breaking48.html

Does it annoy anyone else when they look at threads that function under the assumption that psychics aren't bull****?

It really pisses me off. Religion is vague enough that it can kinda get away with being nonsensical. Alternative medicine makes very specific and testable claims.

We know how psychics work - cold reading. They're all either con-artists or have deluded themselves into thinking the cold reading they've happened upon is actually magic. There's no "the lord works in mysterious ways" ****e to hide behind.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

BTW, is the European Court of Human Rights good or bad these days? I can't keep up with the latest religious flip-flop.

I lean towards them being good, but will reserve final judgement until they decide the case of the woman complaining about not being allowed to wear a necklace at work, which was against company policy, and the two people fighting for their right to be bigots and discriminate against an entire section of the population.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato

I'm only posting this to move the thread onto a new page so we don't have to look at that horrible eyes peeled image any more