The Hazards of Belief

Scofflaw

The Atheist wrote: »

Reading that made me think.

Isn't she only saying out loud what every true Christian believes? That Jews are only not Christians by virtue of their rejecting Christ? Why is Ann Coulter wanting to 'perfect' Jews any different than a proselytizing Christian trying to convert an atheist/agnostic. The only difference is the word "perfect" which she is using to indicate that Jews are almost Christians; but which the average person would take as meaning Jews are imperfect. The missing point is that all non-Christians are imperfect, Jewish less so.

Her use of the word 'perfect' reminds me of Dawkins use of 'delusion'. You get your audience's back up before you've even started.

I think it's very much the case. If you are a committed Christian, you are obviously committed to the statement that other religions are quite simply wrong. Most are too polite to say it, some few are too polite to even think it, but it's certainly the case - Christianity by its nature is exclusive.

A number of Christian bloggers have supported Coulter's position, but she's in severe danger of running mouth first into the US Israeli lobby - much, again, like Dawkins.

It's also true, of course, that we atheists think all theists are wrong - but "wrong" there doesn't have quite the same connotations.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zombrex

Ann Coulter said something offensive on CNBC

The most surprising thing about that sentence is the question what the hell was Ann Coulter doing on CNBC.

Zombrex

Scofflaw wrote: »

Most are too polite to say it, some few are too polite to even think it, but it's certainly the case - Christianity by its nature is exclusive.

Its a good point, its what all Christians believe by nature of being Christian.

If this guy was really offended by her statements he needs to look at what Christianity, and his own religion, actually teaches. All the Judeo/Christian religions are exclusive in this fashion.

It was interesting though to see Ann start to sweat a bit at the end and demanding that she explain her point and that he shouldn't take offense by it.

Scofflaw

Wicknight wrote: »

Its a good point, its what all Christians believe by nature of being Christian.

If this guy was really offended by her statements he needs to look at what Christianity, and his own religion, actually teaches. All the Judeo/Christian religions are exclusive in this fashion.

It was interesting though to see Ann start to sweat a bit at the end and demanding that she explain her point and that he shouldn't take offense by it.

Did they cut her mic?

cordially,
Scofflaw

robindch

A few months old, and no update on the guy's health. I hope he's ok. http://cbs5.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_190140139.html

CBS5 wrote:

Religious Book Seller Struck By Lightning

HIALEAH A man making a trip from Puerto Rico to South Florida to raise money for his religious education remains hospitalized Monday after he was struck down by a bolt of lightning which flew from clear blue sky on Sunday. He was selling religious materials when he was hit.

Hailu Kidane Marian was working with members of his religious group, selling religious materials door-to-door in a Northwest Miami-Dade neighborhood, when the bolt from the blue struck him down. "I heard a boom, and I looked and the guy jumped back, and he just laid there, stiff," said witness Maria Martinez.

Paramedics say Marian was not breathing and his heart was not beating when they arrived, but they were able to revive him and rushed him to Jackson Memorial hospital, where he was in critical condition Sunday night. Members of his religious group waited outside the hospital throughout the night for word of his condition. "He's unconscious, he's in a coma," said Francisco Perez, leader of the Puerto Rico-based group. "It's difficult what happened, you know, but what can we do? Things happen in life, but we still believe in God."

This is the second incident in as many months of someone being struck down by lightning from a clear sky in South Florida. Last month David Canales, a gardener who worked in the Pinecrest area, was killed when lightning apparently struck him from a rainless sky. Two co-workers standing nearby were unhurt.

CBS Miami Meteorologist Jeff Berardelli said 'dry lightning', which can strike even when the sky is clear, can be very dangerous because victims are not expecting it and don't prepare as they might with a storm threatening. Measurement of lightning strikes in the area Sunday showed only a few bolts compared to the last few days, making Marian especially unlucky to be struck by one of them.

Nobody else was injured when the bolt flew from the sky.

growler

and another Jehovah Witness hurries off to meet their maker,


"A young mother has died just hours after giving birth to twins because her Jehovah's Witness faith prevented her from accepting a blood transfusion"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm


I feel really sorry for those kids growing up without their mum because of this.

Zombrex

growler wrote: »

and another Jehovah Witness hurries off to meet their maker,


"A young mother has died just hours after giving birth to twins because her Jehovah's Witness faith prevented her from accepting a blood transfusion"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7078455.stm


I feel really sorry for those kids growing up without their mum because of this.

Well they will probably be brain washed into thinking that she is in a far better place now, and that when they need a blood transfusion they should refuse it too, just like their brave mother did.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

A few months old, and no update on the guy's health. I hope he's ok. http://cbs5.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_190140139.html

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

robindch

PDN wrote:

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

Not if you read the first two-thirds of the article, er, no it shouldn't.

growler

PDN wrote: »

Should this be under "The Hazards of Gardening"?

although to be fair, labelling this a hazard of belief is probably stretching it a bit, but I don't think there is a "hazards of walking around" or a "hazards of gardening" thread going currently.

If the "religious" books he were selling were struck and they somehow acted as a conductor of the lightning, then ok, but that wasn't clear to me from the article.

Perhaps there is a thread over on one of the religious fora on "funny ways god shows his divine love / tests our faith, through nature" ?

Schuhart

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/dec/09/video

Child witches in Africa. Do they really believe this, or what?

SubjectSean

Schuhart wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/video/2007/dec/09/video

Child witches in Africa. Do they really believe this, or what?

Ya they do very much so but hardly anybody has been to school. Before the mass of people here went to school they used to think similar things. We are suckers for sorcery and witchcraft without an education. There are lots of people in Africa actually practicing witchcraft so don't go saying there's no such thing as witches and that people are dumb to believe in them existing. I seen 'em


[EDIT] The evangelical pastors, prophets and apostles really are the limit sniffing out kids and extorting cash from the parents to perform exorcism but these f**kers get funds from the fundamentalists in the US and elsewhere.

As for the girl in the green dress no normal african kid would claim to be a witch and the mother nearly breaks herself laughing at a couple of points I think they were just having a laugh and seeing if the nice rich concerned white people would look after the little girl.

MoominPapa

This dirty ol' bastard: Michael Travesser. C4 doc last night "The end of the world cult", really creepy stuff. He shagged his own sons wife repeatedly cause the big cheese told him to (his son did seem to mind but his father basically told him to take it up with God) and also lots of teenage girls with mustaches. Oh yeah, he's also the son of God II and the end of the world will happen on the 31st October next Sunday

Dades

MoominPapa wrote: »

This dirty ol' bastard: Michael Travesser. C4 doc last night "The end of the world cult", really creepy stuff. He shagged his own sons wife repeatedly cause the big cheese told him to (his son did seem to mind but his father basically told him to take it up with God) and also lots of teenage girls with mustaches. Oh yeah, he's also the son of God II and the end of the world will happen on the 31st October next Sunday

Watched some of that last night.

When you look up 'Beardy-weirdy' in the dictionary there's a picture of him.

TheThing!

Wait wait wait wai wai wai

A lionESS you say?

Since when can broads beat up dudes?

Dades

I'll admit my Christmas party was last night, so I'm slow today.

But what the frack are you talking about?

pH

Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Raipur: A three-day "miracle" drama in Chhattisgarh's industrial town of Raigarh ended on Monday afternoon after a Hindu priest, who had committed suicide promising to return to life within 72 hours of his death, was cremated.

Hundreds of people had laid siege around the body of 25-year-old Manoj Baghel, who ended his life on Saturday by consuming poison at a temple in Raigarh, about 200 km northeast of state capital, Raipur. Baghel had claimed that he would come back to life.

"The miracle drama is now over as the people, who had surrounded the body of the dead priest to witness the rebirth, handed over the corpse to the police for post-mortem on Monday afternoon," Superintendent of Police in Raigarh, J K Thorate said.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/priest-who-committed-suicide-for-rebirth-cremated/54924-3.html?xml

Zillah

Ahaha! That last one is hilarious.

Popinjay

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3152432.ece

Scofflaw

Popinjay wrote: »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3152432.ece

And another one from the church recipe book.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Popinjay

Scofflaw wrote: »

And another one from the church recipe book.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well there's no way I'd eat that. Using a microwave to cook meat is just uncivilised.

pH

Untreated diabetes kills girl

Parents choose prayer instead of medical care

The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, were unaware their daughter's recent illness was caused by diabetic ketoacidosis, Vergin said. Although the family has no ties to a specific church or religion, he said, they prayed for her and then attributed her death to them apparently not having enough faith.

"It is our understanding that instead of seeking medical help, they chose to pray over her and their faith would heal her," Vergin said.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/WDH0101/803260643/1981

Dades

pH wrote: »

"It is our understanding that instead of seeking medical help, they chose to pray over her and their faith would heal her," Vergin said.

Reminds me of a quote I read today:

"You know when you close your eyes and wish for something really hard? God is the one who ignores you".

adamd164

This one's a beaut: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24068619/

Suspicions were roused after a 16-year-old girl phoned police to say she'd been beaten and raped by her 50-year-old "husband".

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, there's romney out of the race for VP

Dades

adamd164's "Mormon fundie sect raided" thread merged with the Hazards of Belief thread.

Have finally stickied this one too!

Dades

Another Jehovah's Witness case.

Ms Justice Laffoy ftw.

limerick_woody

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2524,n,n

i nearly fell off my chair...surely only the monumentally ignorant could consider this to be rational behaviour by adults - or members of a religous group of course...

kram_araman

Thats just crazy....

Zombrex

That is nuts ... and very dangerous, not just if the person misses the blanket, but in a fall like that the brain hits the front or the back of the skill at the speed the child is falling, so even if the body is stopped by the blanket the poor babies brain slams into the skill at high speed.

Zillah

"There has been no recorded evidence of any physical disability to the infant..."

Well, apparently people who had this done to them then went off to throw their own children off a fifty foot roof top. That would imply that perhaps there's some variety of mental disability...

Galvasean

limerick_woody wrote: »

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2524,n,n

i nearly fell off my chair...surely only the monumentally ignorant could consider this to be rational behaviour by adults - or members of a religous group of course...

Are you sure thats not just a hoax? Seems too mad to believe!

Scofflaw

Definitely Darwin Award material, if not a hoax.

cordially,
Scofflaw

nozzferrahhtoo

Lovely story from the US. California may have been good with the new gay rights bill that went through the courts, but this story from California (Mojave) shows it isnt all good. Hated is one of those "Hazards of Belief"

The Ford car company is taking a new advertising method by telling some of its customers to shut up. Actual quote from company:

But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians, who believe in God, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess maybe I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Keiffe & Sons Ford are afraid to speak out. Keiffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow.

Galvasean

What an odd thing to say.. What context was it in?
Surely its bad business to come out and berate a substantial percentage of consumers for no apparent reason.

nozzferrahhtoo

Galvasean wrote: »

What an odd thing to say.. What context was it in?
Surely its bad business to come out and berate a substantial percentage of consumers for no apparent reason.

Thats the entire context I posted. Its a transcript word for word of a radio advertisement the company in question is using.

A man wiser and older than me had the same reaction as you the first time he heard of it. As did I. But he then realised that It is probably effective and doing well for them. The dealership is in a conservative part of California, and likely has <14% of the group they are offending.

On top of this one thing we know a lot about religions and is undebiable is that it fosters a strong "in-group mentality". So the dominant Christian audience will be heartened and feel good about this advertisement which in the business sense is a benefit that outweighs the <14% of insulted people.

All in all, in a sick and awful way, the ad is a wonderful PR move when you tot up the balance sheet of those offended to those who will love it.

Galvasean

I suppose so. But i couldn't see an advert like that working over here. It just seems daft that a company would try sell cars by assaulting a minority. But the again, it is America.

Dades

Galvasean wrote: »

It just seems daft that a company would try sell cars by assaulting a minority.

Not when it's the most hated minority of course!

I doubt they'd get away with telling Muslims to 'shut up', if they chose to diss a different minority to inveigle themselves into community.

Galvasean

Yeah, atheists arent too likely to burn down embassies.

"You insulted our... we'll get back to you on that"

PDN

More the hazards of unbelief in this case, but it raised a smile.

ROME, Italy (CNN) -- A man and a woman have been charged by police in Italy after they were found having sex in a confessional.

The Catholic World News reported that a young man and woman were taken into custody by police in Cesena following a telephone complaint from a man attending morning Mass in the city's cathedral.

The two individuals in question -- a 31-year-old laborer and a 32-year-old teacher -- defended their conduct saying: "We are atheists and for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place."

However, Bishop Antonio Lanfranchi of Cesena-Sarsina took a different view saying that the couple's behavior was blasphemous and offensive, showing "a complete lack of respect" for the sacred and for their Catholic neighbors.

He added that a special Mass, or Mass of Reparation, to restore the cathedral's purity would follow. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/04/cathedral.sex/index.html

Any of you atheists thinking of coming to my church and doing this - don't bother. Our ushers might throw a bucket of cold water over you.

iUseVi

PDN wrote: »

More the hazards of unbelief in this case, but it raised a smile.



Any of you atheists thinking of coming to my church and doing this - don't bother. Our ushers might throw a bucket of cold water over you.

Foiled again. Oh well, we'll just go back to good old baby eating.

humanji

article wrote:

The two individuals in question -- a 31-year-old laborer and a 32-year-old teacher -- defended their conduct saying: "We are atheists and for us, having sex in church is like doing it any other place."

But wouldn't they have been more comfortable doing it somewhere else?

Dades

PDN wrote: »

Any of you atheists thinking of coming to my church and doing this - don't bother. Our ushers might throw a bucket of cold water over you.

Holy water... it burns!

humanji wrote: »

But wouldn't they have been more comfortable doing it somewhere else?

The alter might have been a bit public.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

Any of you atheists thinking of coming to my church and doing this - don't bother.

I'm sure there are plenty of posters who'd love to come to your church without having to baptize it!

But your reluctance to say exactly where your church is does suggest a most un-PDN-like reticence upon your part. Are you really that scared that a few atheists will show up to hear god's word?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

actually a church would be a great place to watch porn, fantastic acoustics

CerebralCortex

PDN wrote: »

More the hazards of unbelief in this case, but it raised a smile.



Any of you atheists thinking of coming to my church and doing this - don't bother. Our ushers might throw a bucket of cold water over you.

Technically all you could do is turn the other cheek.

pH

robindch wrote: »

But your reluctance to say exactly where your church is does suggest a most un-PDN-like reticence upon your part. Are you really that scared that a few atheists will show up to hear god's word?

Oh I think PDN has dropped enough hints ....

robindch

pH wrote: »

I think PDN has dropped enough hints

Must have been out of town when he did. I stand corrected!

iUseVi

pH wrote: »

Oh I think PDN has dropped enough hints ....

Been there!! Bet I've seen PDN.

Dades

Ahem.

I haven't been there myself, but I'm going to assume talking about PDN's church is off-topic in the Hazards of Belief thread...