The Hazards of Belief

magicbastarder

In May 1856, an African teenager named Nongqawuse had a vision: If her people killed all their cattle, she said, their long-dead ancestors would rise and drive out the European settlers.

Word spread quickly, and they did as she urged. In 10 months that followed, the Xhosa nation killed 400,000 cattle, driven by mounting rumor and revelation that great fields of corn would also spring into existence, that their ancient heroes would return to life, and that sickness and old age would disappear.

read on...
http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/07/01/sunset/

Nodin

"A DUP councillor has attempted to ban the sale of alcohol - at a festival which celebrates and showcases beer".
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/03/anything-good-in-the-irish-news-3/?fb_source=pubv1

endacl

Nodin wrote: »

"A DUP councillor has attempted to ban the sale of alcohol - at a festival which celebrates and showcases beer".
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/03/anything-good-in-the-irish-news-3/?fb_source=pubv1

Our forefathers did not lay down their lives in the trenches of the Somme, so that young scallywags would be free to enjoy decent German beer on the streets of this province!!!

:mad:

No they did not!!

CarlingBlackLabelFest.

OR NOTHING!!!

endacl

^^

Yeah. I know. Carling's Canadian. Boardsies of a certain vintage though, will remember the TV ad...

vibe666

the_monkey wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

But Islam is a peaceful religion ?

some of the nicest people I know are Muslims. some of the nastiest people I know are Christian. there is good and evil in all religions and in atheists.

that said, extremist Muslims have outdone themselves in the extreme stakes recently.

Sulla Felix

vibe666 wrote: »

some of the nicest people I know are Muslims. some of the nastiest people I know are Christian. there is good and evil in all religions and in atheists.

that said, extremist Muslims have outdone themselves in the extreme stakes recently.

Yeah, it's almost as if which religion you follow has no effect on whether you're a douche or not. :pac: If you are one, you'll still be one, whether islamic, christian or atheist.

Penn

Bad people do bad things. Religion is often used as justification rather than the reason.

robindch

Penn wrote: »

Religion is often used as justification [...]

Wisconsin cuts away another small branch of religious idiocy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/wis-court-upholds-convictions-of-parents-who-prayed-for-dying-girl-instead-of-going-to-doctor/2013/07/03/fe5dd704-e3dc-11e2-bffd-37a36ddab820_story.html

Washington Post wrote:

MADISON, Wis. — A mother and father who prayed instead of seeking medical help as their daughter died were properly convicted of homicide, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled Wednesday in a decision that dramatically limits legal immunity for parents who turn to God rather than science to heal their children.

The decision marks the first time a Wisconsin court has addressed criminal culpability in a prayer treatment case where a child died. The court ruled 6-1 that the state’s immunity provisions for prayer treatment parents protect them from child abuse charges but nothing else, opening the door to a host of other counts. “No one reading the treatment-through-prayer provision should expect protection from criminal liability under any other statute,” Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson wrote for the majority.

Most states, including Wisconsin, created exemptions from child abuse charges for prayer-healing parents in the 1970s to meet federal requirements. At least 303 children have died since 1975 after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, according to Rita Swan, director of the Iowa-based advocacy group Children’s Healthcare is a Legal Duty. Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina have taken their exemptions off the books, Swan said.

The Wisconsin case revolves around an 11-year-old girl named Madeline Kara Neumann, known as Kara to family and friends. She died of undiagnosed diabetes on Easter Sunday in March 2008 at her home in Weston, a central Wisconsin village about 140 miles north of Madison. Kara, who had been growing weak for several weeks leading up to her death, eventually became too sick to speak, eat, drink or walk. Her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, don’t belong to any organized religion or church but identify themselves as Pentecostal Christians and believe visiting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, the Supreme Court opinion said.

As Kara’s condition worsened, her parents resisted suggestions from her grandmother to take her to a doctor. Kara’s grandfather suggested giving her Pedialyte, a supplement used to combat dehydration in children, but Leilani Neumann said that would take the glory away from God. Dale Neumann testified that the possibility of death never entered their minds. After the girl died, Leilani Neumann told police God would raise Kara from the dead.

Doctors testified that Kara would have had a good chance of survival if she had received medical care before she stopped breathing. Separate juries convicted the couple of second-degree reckless homicide in 2009. They faced up to 25 years in prison, but a judge instead ordered them to serve a month in jail every year for six years, with one parent serving every March and the other every September.

The couple’s attorneys argued the immunity clause in Wisconsin’s child abuse statutes protects parents from criminal liability through the point of creating a substantial risk of death. The reckless homicide statute says whoever creates a substantial risk of death is guilty of the charge. The attorneys contended the similar language makes it difficult to know when a situation has become so serious that parents who stay with prayer healing become criminally liable. The Wisconsin Supreme Court found no ambiguity exists in state statutes.

“If the legislature intended a treatment-through-prayer provision to apply across the board to all criminal statutes, the legislature could have used different language or placed a treatment-through-prayer provision ... with other defenses to criminal liability,” Abrahamson wrote. Justice David Prosser, the lone dissenter, maintained it wasn’t clear Kara was in danger of dying and insisted state law is murky on prayer treatment immunity. “Failing to acknowledge these deficiencies will not advance the long-term administration of justice,” Prosser said. A spokeswoman for the state Justice Department, which defended the convictions, declined to comment.

Dale Neumann’s attorney, Steven L. Miller, said the ruling effectively eliminates legal immunity for prayer treatment. “If I was advising a parent on faith healing, I’d say there is no privilege,” Miller said. “They pretty much gutted it.” A spokesman for the Christian Science church, a religious group that embraces faith healing, had no immediate comment. Norm Fost, a professor of pediatrics and director of the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s bioethics program, said it’s unfortunate the Supreme Court didn’t strike down the exemption completely. Still, he said the ruling sends a message that sticking with prayer treatment when children are obviously seriously ill can result in prosecution.

“The only recourse to deter families from behaving this way is prosecution,” said Fost, who consults on child abuse cases and has tracked religious exemptions. “The state cannot tolerate decisions like this that result in serious disability or death of a child.” Rep. Terese Berceau, D-Madison, plans to introduce a bill eliminating the exemption. A similar measure from Berceau in 2009 never got a vote. “It is a parent’s responsibility to ensure the health of their children and, as this case so tragically demonstrates, to set aside their own personal convictions in order to save the life of their child,” Berceau said in a statement.

Bannasidhe

Penn wrote: »

Bad people do bad things. Religion is often used as justification rather than the reason.

However religion sometimes convinces good people that bad things are good.

biko

'I've got a surprise for you': Husband blindfolds his wife.... and then chops off her fingers to stop her studying for a degree

A jealous husband is facing life in prison after chopping off his wife's fingers because she began studying for a degree without his permission.
Rafiqul Islam, 30, blindfolded his wife Hawa Akhter, 21, and taped her mouth, telling her he was going to give her a surprise present.
Instead he made her hold out her hand and cut off all five fingers. One of his relatives then threw Ms Akhter's fingers in the dustbin to ensure doctors could not reattach them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075435/Husband-chops-wifes-fingers-stop-studying-degree.html

Pherekydes

robindch wrote: »

Wisconsin cuts away another small branch of religious idiocy:

So, consulting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, but they don't have a problem consulting a lawyer? Seems sensible...

FouxDaFaFa

biko wrote: »

'I've got a surprise for you': Husband blindfolds his wife.... and then chops off her fingers to stop her studying for a degree

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075435/Husband-chops-wifes-fingers-stop-studying-degree.html

Even though this country is messed up in a lot of ways I am so, so glad I was lucky enough to be born in Ireland. I take it for granted sometimes that I could get an education without it being a Big Deal.

joseph brand

the_monkey wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

But Islam is a peaceful religion ?

And time-saving.

The four looked like jihadis but stopped to buy a packet of sunflower seeds. People explained that the truly pious would not eat sunflower seeds because they take so long to shell - and the Prophet said not to waste time.

SebBerkovich

Islam's message of peace to all men and message of "this doesn't mean you" to women has shown itself again in Afghanistan with the murder of Helmand's top female police officer.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/04/helmand-female-police-officer-dead-islam-bibi?CMP=twt_fd

Bannasidhe

Someonejust posted this on my FB page

A little boy asked his mother, "Why are you crying?" "Because I'm a woman," she told him.

"I don't understand," he said. His Mom just hugged him and said, "And you never will."

Later the little boy asked his father, "Why does mother seem to cry for no reason?"

"All women cry for no reason," was all his dad could say.

The little boy grew up and became a man, still wondering why women cry.

Finally he put in a call to God. When God got on the phone, he asked,

"God, why do women cry so easily?"

God said, "When I made the woman she had to be special.

I made her shoulders strong enough to carry the weight of the world, yet gentle enough to give comfort.

I gave her an inner strength to endure childbirth and the rejection that many times comes from her children.

I gave her a hardness that allows her to keep going when everyone else gives up, and take care of her family through sickness and fatigue without complaining.

I gave her the sensitivity to love her children under any and all circumstances, even when her child has hurt her very badly.

I gave her strength to carry her husband through his faults and fashioned her from his rib to protect his heart.

I gave her wisdom to know that a good husband never hurts his wife, but sometimes tests her strengths and her resolve to stand beside him And finally, I gave her a tear to shed. This is hers exclusively to use whenever it is needed."

"You see my son," said God, "the beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair.

The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart the
place where love resides."

What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


*Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

robindch

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

I think you've being far too polite.

SebBerkovich

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Someonejust posted this on my FB page



What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

Yeah... now lets hear God's explanation for war, famine and child abuse.

(that bovine pile made me sick in my own mouth)

Gbear

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Someonejust posted this on my FB page



What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


*Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

The insidiousness of that pisses me off the most. Because the way it's phrased all of a sudden you're the arsehole when you point out how utterly misogynistic it is.

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

However religion sometimes convinces good people that bad things are good.

And that good things are bad. Some religious folk do miss out on a lot of life's opportunities for fun.

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Someonejust posted this on my FB page



What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


*Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

Oh please say you explained to her why you blocked her!!!

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

I think you've being far too polite.

Hermoine is here and her reading is coming on great....;)

Bannasidhe

endacl wrote: »

Oh please say you explained to her why you blocked her!!!

She phoned me before I got a chance and asked if I had a problem with her constant posts on the Alexander technique...well, I just ignore those as being little more that the virtual equivilent of rabbit droppings (to continue the poo theme) but this one really was the last straw and actually putting it on my page was going too far. Apparently she thinks it is 'empowering' ...:eek:

Bit weird that she knew I had blocked her so fast as FB doesn't tell you when someone has blocked you...

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

She phoned me before I got a chance and asked if I had a problem with her constant posts on the Alexander technique...well, I just ignore those as being little more that the virtual equivilent of rabbit droppings (to continue the poo theme) but this one really was the last straw and actually putting it on my page was going too far. Apparently she thinks it is 'empowering' ...:eek:

Bit weird that she knew I had blocked her so fast as FB doesn't tell you when someone has blocked you...

Ah, the old Alexander technique...

I had a year of it as part of a music degree. 'Use proper technique, sit up straight, take breaks'. Apparently, it takes years of study to qualify a practitioner to give this advice!

Oh, in case I get into trouble on the 'no medical advice' rule, I'd like to state that I am in no way qualified as an AT practitioner, and did not intend it to come across as advice.

I do sit up straight though...

Bannasidhe

endacl wrote: »

Ah, the old Alexander technique...

I had a year of it as part of a music degree. 'Use proper technique, sit up straight, take breaks'. Apparently, it takes years of study to qualify a practitioner to give this advice!

Oh, in case I get into trouble on the 'no medical advice' rule, I'd like to state that I am in no way qualified as an AT practitioner, and did not intend it to come across as advice.


I do sit up straight though...

Me too but that is because I was taught to show jump at an early age.

Sarky

Good posture makes me look intimidating. Or possibly it's the Iron Maiden tshirts.

I have awful posture Working on it though

SebBerkovich

bluewolf wrote: »

I have awful posture Working on it though

I might know someone who can give you some medical advice on that... gotta keep it on down-low though..

SebBerkovich

SebBerkovich wrote: »

I might know someone who can give you some medical advice on that... gotta keep it on down-low though..

Physio friend and yoga are working on it

endacl

bluewolf wrote: »

Physio friend and yoga are working on it

Ah, yoga.

Pilates for hippies!

I loved both I have to say, but yoga leaves you feeling nice and zen afterwards :cool:

Bannasidhe

bluewolf wrote: »

I loved both I have to say, but yoga leaves you feeling nice and zen afterwards :cool:

Scrummaging used to do that for me.

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

Wisconsin cuts away another small branch of religious idiocy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/wis-court-upholds-convictions-of-parents-who-prayed-for-dying-girl-instead-of-going-to-doctor/2013/07/03/fe5dd704-e3dc-11e2-bffd-37a36ddab820_story.html

That poor poor girl.:(

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Someonejust posted this on my FB page



What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

These are known as glurge. Loads of crap spread through the entire as true stories meant to say something valuable about morals or values in life.

legspin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Scrummaging used to do that for me.

I still miss it. I see my young lads playing and all I want to do is turn some unfortunate loose-head into a pretzel.

endacl

legspin wrote: »

I still miss it. I see my young lads playing and all I want to do is turn some unfortunate loose-head into a pretzel.

Didn't. Understand. A. Word.....

Is it a sport thing? Sounds a bit ..... 'fighty'...?

legspin

endacl wrote: »

Didn't. Understand. A. Word.....

Is it a sport thing? Sounds a bit ..... 'fighty'...?

Within the constraints of the game, happily, no, it isn't.

FouxDaFaFa

Is it related to a scrimmage?

*googles*

Oh. It's like a rugby scrum. AKA mass man-hugging.

Bannasidhe

legspin wrote: »

I still miss it. I see my young lads playing and all I want to do is turn some unfortunate loose-head into a pretzel.

Them's fighting words says the former loose head. *gunshieldy snarl*






Oh I miss this....

Bannasidhe

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Is it related to a scrimmage?

*googles*

Oh. It's like a rugby scrum. AKA mass man-hugging.

Only once..twice...twenty four times tops ...did I hug a mass of men but the IRB frown on that so in my case it was usually eight on eight women huggy time with added see who could shove the other side's shoulder blade down to their ankles.

*deep sigh* good times. very good times.

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Them's fighting words says the former loose head. *gunshieldy snarl*

If your head is loose, you probably shouldn't engage in rugbyball.

recedite

joseph brand wrote: »

And time-saving.

The four looked like jihadis but stopped to buy a packet of sunflower seeds. People explained that the truly pious would not eat sunflower seeds because they take so long to shell - and the Prophet said not to waste time.

Maybe that's why they killed a blasphemer on their way to the shop.
It wasn't a wasted journey so, and the truly pious got to eat their sunflower seeds.

Bannasidhe

endacl wrote: »

If your head is loose, you probably shouldn't engage in rugbyball.

No No. The point is to try and loosen one's opponents head but only when they have rugbyball in their personal possession - otherwise it would be Merkan Futbawl.

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No No. The point is to try and loosen one's opponents head but only when they have rugbyball in their personal possession - otherwise it would be Merkan Futbawl.

Thought it was merkin? Hmm, that's not the region I tackled anyhow I used to love being a number 15 titchy 5'5' lightweight looking like I was shivering in my shorts as the last line of defense against some 14 stone brick wall running towards me.......I've a great grasp of leverage though. Spatial-temporal reasoning is somewhat of a specialty of mine - maybe my only true skill

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

Thought it was merkin?

Pretty sure it's not merkin...but then again, there's nowt as queer as folk so whodehellknowsanymore?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pretty sure it's not merkin...but then again, there's nowt as queer as folk so whodehellknowsanymore?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

No, you're quite right - I just didn't get the american accentuation part till after I'd figured for "Merkin". Literal, and Spatial-temporal skills, waayhaay!

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

No, you're quite right - I just didn't get the american accentuation part till after I'd figured for "Merkin". Literal, and Spatial-temporal skills, waayhaay!

Watch out for the Garryowen!

Obliq

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Watch out for the Garryowen!

Ok, nope. I was rubbish at kicking, and not much better at catching I have to admit. Tackling though.....:D

endacl

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pretty sure it's not merkin...but then again, there's nowt as queer as folk so whodehellknowsanymore?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Clicked that. Whoops!

legspin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Only once..twice...twenty four times tops ...did I hug a mass of men but the IRB frown on that so in my case it was usually eight on eight women huggy time with added see who could shove the other side's shoulder blade down to their ankles.

*deep sigh* good times. very good times.

I do wish the IRB would stop buggering around with the scrum laws though. Oh, and lose those tight jerseys. They really do make life impossible for a prop

joseph brand

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Someonejust posted this on my FB page



What a huge steaming pile of bovine excrement.

A load of 'woman's role is to support her husband and kids with no thought for herself because that is how God made her' wrapped up in lovey dovey sentimental crap and this was put on my page by a fecking single lesbian with no kids who does exactly as she pleases*. WTF???

Do they not see how this is the kind of stuff that is used against any woman who wants a life of her own outside the 'hubby and kids' or indeed doesn't want the hubby and kids at all???


*Except if it pleases her to keep putting this ****e on my page as I have blocked her and deleted her 'message for the day'.

"You see my son," said God, "the beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair.

The beauty of a woman must be seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart

This part sounds very Islamic to me. As long as she is 'allowed' to show her beautiful eyes, she'll be fine.
Bollix.

kylith

legspin wrote: »

I do wish the IRB would stop buggering around with the scrum laws though. Oh, and lose those tight jerseys. They really do make life impossible for a prop

But those jerseys are the only things that make rugby watchable for us non-sport watching girlies.