The Hazards of Belief

kylith

seamus wrote: »

Sure, you could extend the applicability of the laws, but it would really be a willy-waving contest where countries waste lots of resources prosecuting people they can never get their hands on.

Extraditions are basically never granted where the "crime" was committed outside of the jurisdiction of the prosecuting state. Though the US is famously one to throw its weight around in this regard when you look at the Julian Assange situation.
And even if the crime is committed inside of the prosecuting state, it usually has to be serious enough to warrant extradition - murder, rape, etc. As backward as we are, I can't see any western state extraditing a citizen to Qatar because he blasphemed online.
Though you'd probably want to steer clear of the middle east from then on.

So I'd be more likely to be tried and convicted in absentia and arrested if I ever showed up at the Qatari border? I can live with never going there, so that's grand.

robindch

kylith wrote: »

Let me get this straight. They want it so that if I'm in Ireland and I say something like 'Muhammed was a violent pederast' they can prosecute me under Qatari law?

Hard to say at the moment. Far as I can make out from the article, it seems they're just implementing a mutual extradition treaty for blasphemy-related "offences" amongst themselves. I don't believe it'll extend past the Gulf region, though I'm sure they'll try it at some point.

Banbh

So I'd be more likely to be tried and convicted in absentia and arrested if I ever showed up at the Qatari border? I can live with never going there, so that's grand.

But what if your flight to Australia stopped over? Or would you be sure that Pakistan or Somalia or Indonesia wouldn't arrest you and hand you over for a fair trial in Qatar.

robindch

Justice Antonin Scalia, one of the catholics on the US Supreme Court, believes the devil is "a real person":

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/07/justice-antonin-scalia-the-devil-is-getting-people-not-to-believe-in-him-or-in-god/

As one of the commenters points out, on the basis of this interview, Scalia isn't qualified to decide what to have for dinner.

Turtwig

kylith wrote: »

So I'd be more likely to be tried and convicted in absentia and arrested if I ever showed up at the Qatari border? I can live with never going there, so that's grand.

The fear would be that they'd start funnelling their resources into illegal extradition teams. (Like the US has done.) If you say something that they deem blasphemous and convict you and some militia group kidnapped you back to Qatar there'd be no way back for you.
Those laws are very scary if they intend applying them to every citizen on earth.

magicbastarder

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-popular-beliefs-that-are-holding-humanity-back/

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Arab states are reported to be working on a new international blasphemy law:

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/qatar/arab-blasphemy-law-being-drafted-1.1238319

If this country was any way right it would declare that any country to take up that law is to be considered hostis humani generis.

But they'd do the same for those engaged in libel tourism and the gagging of science journals through libel, if they were any way right.

Edit: given that it's Qatar that's proposing this I'd like to outline a thought I had re the WC there in 2022. If Ireland do qualify for it shouldn't we petition the FAI to adopt the gay pride colours as an away jersey to be used in all matches (as it won't clash with anyone elses) during the tournament)? It'd be a great thing for human rights and stick one up to the little fúcks running the country.

Banbh

When Brendan Behan was told that he had been tried in absentia by the IRA he said that they could execute him in absentia as well.

Gbear

Jernal wrote: »

The fear would be that they'd start funnelling their resources into illegal extradition teams. (Like the US has done.) If you say something that they deem blasphemous and convict you and some militia group kidnapped you back to Qatar there'd be no way back for you.
Those laws are very scary if they intend applying them to every citizen on earth.

I'd imagine the EU and the US would go utterly ape**** if they did that to one of their citizens.

The yanks have gone to war over less.

Banbh

I'd imagine the EU and the US would go utterly ape**** if they did that to one of their citizens.

The yanks have gone to war over less.

Not if it was Saudi Arabia or Bahrain; the US isn't going upset its cosy relationship there. In fact, if the US chose to, it could pull the plug on that medieval dung-heap tomorrow.

kylith

Banbh wrote: »

Not if it was Saudi Arabia or Bahrain; the US isn't going upset its cosy relationship there. In fact, if the US chose to, it could pull the plug on that medieval dung-heap tomorrow.

I'd have more respect for the so-called War on Terror if they'd just been honestly colonial about it. Just invade somewhere and take over, don't talk bollocks about bringing democracy and freedom when everyone knows exactly what you're really doing. And who knows, when you've mined the place dry in 50 years or so and gone home maybe the US system of government you'd have set up would stick.

robindch

God causes a bank to freeze various church accounts in Australia.

"“What’s happening in the centre is peripheral” explained the bishop responsible.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/story/1825866/cross-to-bear-anglican-bank-accounts-frozen-over-debt/?cs=103

Central Western Daily wrote:

THE Commonwealth Bank has frozen several of the Bathurst Anglican diocese’s accounts as it moves to recover as much of the $36 million debt owed as possible. The sale of the Orange Anglican Grammar School and the Macquarie Anglican Grammar School in Dubbo, finalised last Monday, “crystallised” the amount of debt hanging over the head of the troubled diocese, according to Bishop Ian Palmer, but has left it in a “very difficult place”.

“I am unable to see clearly what the diocese may look like in the future,” Bishop Palmer said in a letter read out to parishes across the diocese. “[The debt] is large and we cannot repay the bank in full.” Bishop Palmer said individual parishes would be unaffected by the frozen bank accounts and negotiations with the bank were continuing.

In his letter to parishioners he said “we will need to give financially and sacrificially for the work of the church in this diocese”. “At the moment there are some accounts that are frozen, these are affecting myself ... and one or two of my colleagues,” he said. “It’s affecting things like being able to use a credit card, but it’s not affecting [staff] wages.”

The diocese’s school in Bathurst, All Saints’ College, was also “not particularly” affected by the financial situation, as it was a “separate entity”. Bishop Palmer said “intense discussion and activity” with the bank since the sale of the two schools last week would continue, but it was unclear how much would be wiped from the debt.

“It’s a little bit difficult to say, we’re still doing our sums ... It’s not quite as simple as getting a number and taking it away from the original figure,” he said. “It’s a fairly urgent situation ... but the important thing is the parishes are continuing to operate as normal. “That’s what most people are interested in on the ground. “What’s happening in the centre is peripheral.”

Potential asset sales were up in the air, Bishop Palmer said, but nothing had happened to reverse the decision to retain the Bluestone Hall in Orange and other properties including rectory buildings in Molong and Millthorpe, previously earmarked for sale under former Bishop Richard Hurford to recover the debt.

Bishop Palmer said there would be more to report and consider following a meeting of the diocese synod in November.

Hotblack Desiato

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Edit: given that it's Qatar that's proposing this I'd like to outline a thought I had re the WC there in 2022. If Ireland do qualify for it shouldn't we petition the FAI to adopt the gay pride colours as an away jersey to be used in all matches (as it won't clash with anyone elses) during the tournament)? It'd be a great thing for human rights and stick one up to the little fúcks running the country.

The best thing we can do is boycott it and get as many other countries to do the same. I don't think any UEFA country is very keen on it and without Europe it would be pointless.

Brian Shanahan

kylith wrote: »

And who knows, when you've mined the place dry in 50 years or so and gone home maybe the US system of government you'd have set up would stick.

When the US takes over somewhere the government it leaves behind makes Fra. Savanarola look like a hippy pacifist.

Brian Shanahan

ninja900 wrote: »

The best thing we can do is boycott it and get as many other countries to do the same. I don't think any UEFA country is very keen on it and without Europe it would be pointless.

I actually first came up with the idea for the WC in Mother Russia, then thought better of it. Wouldn't want Putin invading the pitch on 60mins his passions inflamed by all the gay.

We all know the real reason he's so homophobic really. Don't deny it Vlad, you look at Ricky Martin all day long!

Sulla Felix

kylith wrote: »

So I'd be more likely to be tried and convicted in absentia and arrested if I ever showed up at the Qatari border? I can live with never going there, so that's grand.

Might want to avoid Indonesia too. I seem to remember, but can't find a link, a case last year where a Saudi reporter was extradited back home from Indonesia for blasphemy or disrespect or something along those lines.
Edit: Banbh got there before me. Must finish reading thread before posting. Must finish reading thread before posting. Must...

robindch

Sulla Felix wrote: »

[...] a Saudi reporter was extradited back home from Indonesia for blasphemy [...]

That was Malaysia:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/saudi-writer-detained-after-tweets-about-muhammad/2012/02/09/gIQApsgW2Q_story.html

Indonesia, like Malaysia, has been receiving lots of cash from Saudi to set up Wahhabi religious "schools" of one kind or another, and that's been affecting the body politic too. But owing, I suppose, to its larger size, the corrupting effects of cash has had less of a disjunctive effect in Indonesia(*) than it's had in Malaysia.




(*) a country for which I have enormous time, not entirely unconnected with the truly great food the country has.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Indonesia, like Malaysia, has been receiving lots of cash from Saudi to set up Wahhabi religious "schools" of one kind or another

Who also bankroll the megamosques here btw.

robindch

ninja900 wrote: »

Who also bankroll the megamosques here btw.

Thought Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum was the guy throwing dirhams down the john here?

Hotblack Desiato

Ah yes, you're right about the new one in Clongriffin. The Clonskeagh one was supposedly paid for by a Saudi prince.

Nodin

Well, that escalated fairly sharpish....it would appear to be 'on like Donkey Kong'....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057057845

Almost as ridiculous as the "Sean Sherlock" policy.

kylith

So, what happened?

Banbh

It seems that somebody on Boards has decided to implement the unworkable blasphemy law.

joseph brand

Afaik, there was a thread on Tommy Robinson leaving the EDL, in AH, yesterday.
Some user 'Vakult' seemed to have some pro EDL tendencies. "Brown people, coming over here, knicking our jobs". Must have said something unpleasant about mohammad, and a touchy muslim complained.
"All I said was; this piece of halibut, would be good enough for Jehovah."
Cleese: "BLASPHEMER!!! "

biko

Yeah, it now has its own thread here in AA, Dav has responded about it
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057057893

Nodin

A "sex guide" by Precious Life.....Going up the Congo without so much as an anti-malaria injection would be a walk in the park compared to the dangers of ridin'.............

http://imgur.com/a/CTFaa#KMnOzez

Sarky

The 'snappy one-liners' section that helps you to say no in a 'trendy' manner are just embarrassing.

Hotblack Desiato

Nodin wrote: »

A "sex guide" by Precious Life.....Going up the Congo

Thought you were speaking in euphemism for a second.

Sarky wrote: »

The 'snappy one-liners' section that helps you to say no in a 'trendy' manner are just embarrassing.

Looks like someone was doodling on that page :pac:

PopePalpatine

So, I was browsing Reddit (yeah, shoot me if you want), and I just found this chilling:

Fucking hell, that was dated 4 days after I was born!

robindch

Jewish-controlled schools caught blacking out answers on science exam papers:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/10/jewish-faith-school-caught-censoring-questions-on-science-exam-papers

Meanwhile, the number of religious-controlled schools is increasing massively in the UK:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/god-schools-we-pay-for-faith-academies

Bannasidhe

robindch wrote: »

Jewish-controlled schools caught blacking out answers on science exam papers:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/10/jewish-faith-school-caught-censoring-questions-on-science-exam-papers

Meanwhile, the number of religious-controlled schools is increasing massively in the UK:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/god-schools-we-pay-for-faith-academies

The way things are going in the UK now is making me look back on the Thatcher years with fondness.



Now there's a sentence I never thought I'd write.

Girls attending Yesodey Hatorah are strongly discouraged from going to university. According to Rabbi Pinter: "Our experience, is that the better educated girls turn out to be the most successful mothers. For us, that's the most important role a woman plays."

Wat

Brian Shanahan

bluewolf wrote: »

Wat

The jewish religion holds that the woman is the slave to the man.

For that matter so does the christian religion, it's just not quite as loud about it.

Brian Shanahan

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

The jewish religion holds that the woman is the slave to the man.

For that matter so does the christian religion, it's just not quite as loud about it.

No, it says he doesn't want them to go to uni, then it says better educated women make better mothers which is the most important
Either he misspoke or someone messed the article

recedite

bluewolf wrote: »

No, it says he doesn't want them to go to uni, then it says better educated women make better mothers

But in this context, "better educated" means going to his jewish school and being indoctrinated in the faith, as opposed to getting a more secular education which might include dodgy "scientific theories" such as evolution.

Maybe so
Sounds awful contradictory anyway

recedite

"Cognitive dissonance"..... its a thing.
The people running this school believe the biblical teaching that "a woman's place is in the home".
On the other hand, modern society generally believes that education is a good thing.
To resolve this conflict, and reduce cognitive dissonance in their own minds, they must create a system which offers the minimal level of education acceptable to societal norms, and then believe that this education actually produces a more successful mother.

I'm not sure how they measure success in mothers though.
Could it be in babies reared/married years?
Maybe in terms of the husband's satisfaction rating?

Gamayun

Not sure where to put this, I didn't want to start a new thread as I'm sure the topic itself has been covered before.

A ban on male circumcision would be antisemitic. How could it not be?
-Tanya Gold, Today's Guardian.

It's been a while since I've been genuinely infuriated by an article. Thankfully the comment section has taken her to task.

Turtwig

It seems everything is anti semetic these days.

Sulla Felix

But... but there are Jews, actual practising Jews, who don't perform it? It's clearly not necessary to at least some of those of the faith.

Nodin

Seeing as Jews aren't the only ones who perform it, and in fact would probably be in the minority as regards those affected in a lot of countries, she hasn't a leg to stand on.

They can always have it done like Nelson Mandelas tribe. It'll be a good test of commitment.

Banbh

They can always have it done like Nelson Mandelas tribe.

What's that?

kylith

Banbh wrote: »

What's that?

I'd imagine it's having it done in adulthood. It certainly would be a much better symbol of an individual's contract with their god if they decided to get it done as an adult rather than having it done to them in infancy.

Sulla Felix

Banbh wrote: »

What's that?

They do it some time in their teens afaik. Oh, and it's done with an assegai, kind of broad leaf short stabbing spear. Slap the penis up on something, an elder pulls on the foreskin and with one blow, removes it. :eek: Bastard'd want to have good aim...
Nothing to do with religion though, it's a manhood ritual. Literally under tribal law, makes you a man. Someone who hasn't had it done can't inherit etc etc. Remeber reading Mandela's account of his own in a biography.

iguana

How twisted by religion would you have to be to hope that bad things happen to your atheist daughter and grandchildren so they will find their way back to Jesus?

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a45120928/my_family_assures_one_another_bad_things_will_happen_to_me_so_i_will_believe_in_god.._wtf?cpg=1&csi=2433226935&pd=1

Nodin

Sulla Felix wrote: »

They do it some time in their teens afaik. Oh, and it's done with an assegai, kind of broad leaf short stabbing spear. Slap the penis up on something, an elder pulls on the foreskin and with one blow, removes it. :eek: Bastard'd want to have good aim...
Nothing to do with religion though, it's a manhood ritual. Literally under tribal law, makes you a man. Someone who hasn't had it done can't inherit etc etc. Remeber reading Mandela's account of his own in a biography.

...yep, ye have to stand there and take it like a man. A man who doesn't let a roar out of him though....

bnt

On Saturday, Tropical Cyclone Phailin struck India with winds exceeding 200km/h in parts and torrential rains over a wide area. The situation is still developing at this time, but the latest death toll is 14. This is thanks to plenty of advance warning (science!) and a massive evacuation campaign, to avoid a repeat of a similar tropical cyclone of 1999 when the death toll was over 10,000.

On Saturday, in another part of India, at least 89 people were killed in a stampede at a Hindu temple. Pilgrims were crowded on to a bridge, someone said "the bridge might collapse", people panicked, and many were crushed. Mostly women and children, it seems. Oh, and it's not the first time that has happened at that particular temple.

If ever there was an illustration of the hazards of religion ... a religious event causes more deaths than a natural disaster :mad:

donspeekinglesh

Another Year of Blasphemy - round up of a year's worth of blasphemy prosecutions.

Banbh

I didn't read through all those crimes against humanity and common-sense but will keep it for future reference, thanks.

I wonder if the silencing of Boards.ie (not the A+A section) following a complaint of blasphemy will be in the next compilation.