The Hazards of Belief

robindch

The Arabic word for "god" is "allah", but in Malaysia, only islamics can use the word to refer to their god, since letting other people use it could "cause confusion in the community".

God, as always, was silent on the topic:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24516181

BBC wrote:

A Malaysian court has ruled that non-Muslims cannot use the word Allah to refer to God, overturning a 2009 lower court ruling. The appeals court said that allowing non-Muslims to use the word would "cause confusion in the community". Christians argue that they have used the word in Malay for decades and that the ruling violates their rights.

The 2009 ruling sparked religious tensions and led to churches and mosques being attacked. It came after the government said that a Catholic newspaper, The Herald, could not use the word in its Malay-language edition to describe the Christian God. The newspaper sued, and a court ruled in their favour in December 2009. The government then launched an appeal.

Chief Judge Mohamed Apandi Ali said on Monday: "The usage of the word Allah is not an integral part of the faith in Christianity." "The usage of the word will cause confusion in the community," he added.

The Herald editor Reverend Lawrence Andrew said he was "disappointed and dismayed", and would appeal against the decision. "It is a retrograde step in the development of law in relation to the fundamental liberty of religious minorities," he said. The newspaper's supporters have argued that Malay-language Bibles have used Allah to refer to the Christian God since before Malaysia was formed as a federal state in 1963.

"Allah is a term in the Middle East and in Indonesia it is a term both for Christians and Muslims. You cannot say that in all of the sudden it is not an integral part. Malay language is a language that has many borrowed words, Allah also is a borrowed word." However, some Muslim groups have said that the Christian use of the word Allah could be used to encourage Muslims to convert to Christianity.

"Allah is not a Malay word. If they [non-Muslims] say they want to use a Malay word they should use Tuhan instead of Allah," Zainul Rijal Abu Bakar, a lawyer representing the government, told the BBC. Dozens of churches and a few Muslim prayer halls were attacked and burned in the wake of the 2009 ruling, highlighting the intensity of feeling about issues of ethnicity and faith in Malaysia.

The case has baffled Muslim scholars outside the country, where the use of the word Allah by Christians is not controversial, the BBC's Jennifer Pak reports from outside the court in Putrajaya. Some Malaysians believe the governing Malay-Muslim party is using the case to boost its Islamic credentials among voters, our correspondent adds.

Malay Muslims make up almost two-thirds of the country's population, but there are large Hindu and Christian communities. Prime Minister Najib Razak's coalition won elections in May, but it was the coalition's worst result in more than half a century in power.

biko

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399

SCOTLAND'S largest ever immunisation programme has been halted after Muslim parents were not told the vaccine contained pork gelatine.
The roll-out of the flu vaccine nasal spray pilot scheme in Glasgow had been due to begin at city primary school on Wednesday, days after its launch by First Minister Alex Salmond.

But after parents at Glendale Primary in Pollokshields - which has a large number of Muslim pupils who cannot consume or use pig products for religious reasons - became aware of the ingredients, complaints were made and the scheme was put on hold.

In England, the Fluenz vaccine attracted criticism just a fortnight ago for the same reason, sparking accusations of insensitivity to Muslims, Jews and vegetarians, and concerns over the lack of information to parents.

When in Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
When in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.



https://www.facebook.com/national.vaccine.information.center/posts/10151908560557931
Read the comments
My own favourite

Jeany and Sam, I bet you don't open your evil mouths when your soldiers are mass murdering and maiming innocent Muslims and destroying and occupying their countries, also lets not forget the vaccination programs all eminated from white supremacist nations and were forced on Muslim and other nations.

White supremacy is a disease and you're both pretty sick. It also blinds you to the facts, and btw your two comments make me vomit, please take your pathetic bigotted, hateful, ignorant, ungrateful comments and shove them where the sun don't shine. You should be thanking the Muslim parents! This vaccination was halted because as it said a small group of Muslim parents became very vocal and the authorities had no choice as this is a religious objection, same with jews.

It's obvious you two fascists would never use the same words against jews, but you feel you have free ticket to crap on Muslims. It's a pity no Christian stands up and objects on religious grounds to dead baby feotus being injected into their kids there.

How about you use those words to damn parents in the US who object to vaccines on religious grounds " god forbid anyone upset a Christian", no you wouldn't because you're a pair hateful bigots. And, yes, it's news because people in the UK are sheep, they run to their doc and wait in line to get their kids injected with poisons even though vaccines are not mandatory.

Nodin

biko wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399


When in Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
When in non-Muslim countries, non-Muslims must adapt their behaviour to Muslim sensibilities.
...............

Don't forget the Jews and the Vegans who object.

Also - from your own article -
"He added: "In view of the 2001 ­agreement between the World Health Organisation and the Muslim scholars that pork gelatine was permissible within a vaccine there was no specific reference to this ingredient in the initial national communication that was produced for parents."

...perhaps being upfront would have been the wiser strategy.

Banbh

I don't accept that Islam is merely a religion, nor that this groups' anti-scientific nonsense must be adopted in a the country in which they are a tiny minority. Also, the concept of 'Muslim countries' and 'non-Muslim countries' flies in the face of centuries of enlightenment, democracy and individual freedom.

robindch

biko wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/flu-vaccine-scheme-halted-over-fears-of-muslim-parents.22328399

Herald Scotland wrote:

In England, the Fluenz vaccine attracted criticism just a fortnight ago for the same reason, sparking accusations of insensitivity to Muslims, Jews and vegetarians, and concerns over the lack of information to parents.

Well, it's a balancing act that's hard to achieve -- inform people of the realities of vaccines and disease and have a vocal, clueless minority scream persecution, nanny-state, paranoia and get the scheme stopped. Or, just ignore the issue and get accused of "insensitivity", have the same lot going bananas anyway and get it stopped.

Personally, I think people with this attitude towards vaccines should deny themselves all the other other conveniences of modern life and go live in a cave where at least they can expire untidily in a fully "natural" environment.

/grunt

Mark Hamill

I am a vegetarian and, tbh, it would irritate and anger me no end if I had taken a vaccine and later learned it contained gelatine. There are enough vegetarian gelling agents that I cant imagine a non animal alternative couldn't be used instead.

However, I don't agree with stopping the immunisation programme.

FouxDaFaFa

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I am a vegetarian and, tbh, it would irritate and anger me no end if I had taken a vaccine and later learned it contained gelatine. There are enough vegetarian gelling agents that I cant imagine a non animal alternative couldn't be used instead.

However, I don't agree with stopping the immunisation programme.

Yeah, I'm a vegetarian too.

Would this stop me getting an important vaccination? No.

Would I rather it was vegetarian? Of course.

I suppose it comes down to how the pork and vegetarian gelling agents compare in terms of efficiency, shelf-life and cost. However the vaccine gets distributed safely to the most people is fine by me.

Turtwig

Not told? Aren't there people with food allergens that can't take vaccines. Normally every bit of info regarding what's in the vaccines and all possible side effects, no matter, how remote are listed. If they expected doctors/nurses/pharmacists to list each and everyone one of these things then I hate to say it but it's bad parenting.

If the information wasn't available then it's pretty shambolic but I really find that incredibly hard to believe as they authorities and vaccine providers could be sued to sh*t (unless Scotland is very very different.). This strikes me as those kind of situations where parents complain about content in a video game or something published on the internet. Lazy parenting. Not saying they're bad parents overall, just this was one area where they let their parental responsibilities and wish to blame others for their ignorance.

biko

From a rabbi on the matter:

It should be noted that according to Jewish laws, there is no problem with porcine or other animal derived ingredients in non-oral products. This includes vaccines, including those administered via the nose, injections, suppositories, creams and ointments.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317140022303

Apparently most Muslims should be ok with it too since gelatine can be considered "transformed" and therefore not "bad" any more.

These rulings are accepted widely by Jews and Muslims in many parts of the world, including in the U.S. where a vaccine the same as Fluenz has been used successfully for over ten years.

Public Health England (PHE) has consulted the Muslim Council of Great Britain, and acknowledges the diversity in thought within the British Muslim community. We understand, therefore, that some individuals may still consider the porcine gelatine product to be forbidden.
In this circumstance, these individuals would still be able to accept some pharmaceutical products containing gelatine but only if there was no suitable alternative and if the product was considered life-saving.

Banbh

How about the solution the Catholic zealots apply to non-religious parents seeking education for their children? Build your own schools!
Or in this case: Build your own pharmaceutical corporations!

Banbh

Banbh wrote: »

How about the solution the Catholic zealots apply to non-religious parents seeking education for their children? Build your own schools!
Or in this case: Build your own pharmaceutical corporations!

Didn't work out well for Saddam or Assad.

Sarky

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Typical Western Propaganda.

robindch

Well, here's an interesting new theory -- militant atheists are using chemtrails to murder angels.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130821112549/http://usahitman.com/mauctpa/

Some Guy wrote:

As secret atheist scientists in government pursue their goals of undermining Jesus in America, it only stands to reason that they would take their battle to the skies. The aerial dogfight is likely a vicious one. Who knows what advances they have made since the days of DDT and Agent Orange. Yet fight on they do, every single day! Our heavens are coated in a thick aerosol haze of spiritual hate and this nation’s faith is sinking. etc, etc, etc, etc

Sarky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59XhhFIhK70

Brian Shanahan

Sarky wrote: »

Now I'm no chemist or pharmacist, but I'm not sure one really needs sarin gas to manufacture vaccines...

Well, the most efficient way to kill a virus is by killing the possible carriers. Therefore Sarin.

Please note I'm not advocating killing anyone just being sarcastic.

recedite

a Rabbi wrote:

It should be noted that according to Jewish laws, there is no problem with porcine or other animal derived ingredients in non-oral products. This includes vaccines, including those administered via the nose, injections, suppositories, creams and ointments.

Well that's the funniest piece of religious hypocrisy I've heard in a long time.
Can't eat bacon, but sausage suppositories are just fine
What about the hunger strike in Guantanamo, where the inmates were kept alive with nasal tube nutrition. If only the prisoners had known they could order guilt-free bacon and eggs, or "transformed" halal rashers they would have loved it.

Genghiz Cohen

recedite wrote: »

Well that's the funniest piece of religious hypocrisy I've heard in a long time.
Can't eat bacon, but sausage suppositories are just fine
What about the hunger strike in Guantanamo, where the inmates were kept alive with nasal tube nutrition. If only the prisoners had known they could order guilt-free bacon and eggs, or "transformed" halal rashers they would have loved it.

Heh

SebBerkovich

logical that the atheist’s next step would be to attempt the widespread murder of Jesus’s very Heavenly Agents of Love.

i think that could be the greatest misrepresentation of the term 'logical' in the history of the worlds existence.

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Well, here's an interesting new theory

http://web.archive.org....

The web archive.. sounds like the go-to place for new happening stuff :cool:

Brian Shanahan

ninja900 wrote: »

The web archive.. sounds like the go-to place for new happening stuff :cool:

Well it is an archive of an article from this year.

The website itself is still extant. I'll give it this, though, it is ecumencial in its conspiracy theories, taking liberally from both left and right.

PopePalpatine

Yeah...I don't think I'll look at a site called "usahitman.com" while at uni...or anywhere else for that matter.

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah, pretty dodgy sounding domain name, 'tis method in the madness after all

Genghiz Cohen

According to Google
"usahitman.com/‎
The best conspiracy and alternative news. Our site is under attack by the TPTB. Wake up and receive the truth."

PopePalpatine

"Our site is under attack by the The Powers That Be". Nope, just the grammar police. :pac:

Links234

posted in t'uther thread, but this deserves to be here too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_hKv4pEM4

FouxDaFaFa

Some relics of St.Anthony's are on display tonight in Galway Cathedral, near where I live. When I heard about it I assumed "relics" meant "a goblet that belonged to him" or "a piece of cloth he touched".

Turns out it is actually one of St. Anthony's ribs and his tongue.

Now, look, I'm all for letting religious people go about their business but am I the only one who is confused by this?

Would it not be some kind of desecration to take someone's remains on a worldwide tour?

I mean, you spend your whole life being such a good catholic that you're made a saint after you die and you're rewarded by having your tongue brought from church to church like a side-show?

*shudder*

PopePalpatine

If St. Anthony is as long dead as I think he is...

...surely his real tongue has long since decomposed?

Turtwig

Where is the Silver tongue?

recedite

A church that has relics brings in extra cash.

Bannasidhe

recedite wrote: »

A church that has relics brings in extra cash.

Soooo much cash that they used to steal them from each other.

FouxDaFaFa

They call it the Incorruptible Tongue.

I'm not even kidding.

(I have no idea how it's preserved).



WHAT THE FCUK?!

Sarky

Just replace it with some beef jerky every fifty years, bingo, immortal relic.

Banbh

Traffic delays were reported on RTE due to the throng at the tongue thing.

Obliq

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

They call it the Incorruptible Tongue.

I'm not even kidding.

(I have no idea how it's preserved).



WHAT THE FCUK?!

I'm sorry....again, is it just me or is that gold frame distinctly vaginal looking?

(could be just me - it's in and around a full moon....

FouxDaFaFa

^^

I actually thought the same thing but thought the topic was suitably disgusting already.

Nodin

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Some relics of St.Anthony's are on display tonight in Galway Cathedral, near where I live. When I heard about it I assumed "relics" meant "a goblet that belonged to him" or "a piece of cloth he touched".

Turns out it is actually one of St. Anthony's ribs and his tongue.

Now, look, I'm all for letting religious people go about their business but am I the only one who is confused by this?

Would it not be some kind of desecration to take someone's remains on a worldwide tour?

I mean, you spend your whole life being such a good catholic that you're made a saint after you die and you're rewarded by having your tongue brought from church to church like a side-show?

*shudder*

...after we find Shergar with it, we can send it over to the Brits so they can have a goo for Lord Lucan.

Nodin

"BROADCASTER and columnist Fr Brian D'Arcy has said his censure by the Vatican "destroyed" him "as a human being and as a priest" and almost caused him to leave the priesthood.

Recalling the events that led to his rap on the knuckles from the Vatican, Fr D'Arcy said that in 2010 he was formally censured by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF).

The then head of the CDF wrote to the Superior General of his religious order, the Passionists, accusing him of being "a source of great scandal".
Fr D'Arcy received a formal warning that he must cease being critical of the Vatican and stop questioning its rules on celibacy, homosexuality, divorce and remarriage or face excommunication."

"Father D'Arcy told the Irish Independent that he would quit the church if he is censured by the Congregation of the Faith over his new book."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ill-quit-priesthood-if-vatican-censures-my-book-vows-darcy-29688018.html

...sez the man who advocated censorship himself.

Amirani

I'd love to steal the tongue and see how long it takes St. Anthony to help them find it.

It's like a big circus.

robindch

NiallSparky wrote: »

I'd love to steal the tongue and see how long it takes St. Anthony to help them find it.

They may need more than just St Anthony since thirty years of searching haven't located Jesus' foreskin which went missing in 1983:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2006/12/fore_shame.html

SebBerkovich

robindch wrote: »

They may need more than just St Anthony since thirty years of searching haven't located Jesus' foreskin which went missing in 1983:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2006/12/fore_shame.html

There are some things that even St Anthony doesn't feel quite right about helping people find.

Pherekydes

robindch wrote: »

They may need more than just St Anthony since thirty years of searching haven't located Jesus' foreskin which went missing in 1983:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2006/12/fore_shame.html

Ah, so that's what Jewish people do with their sons' foreskins: they keep them safe in case their son becomes a messiah.

robindch

The Sultan of Brunei introduced tough Sharia-law punishments on Tuesday including death by stoning for crimes such as adultery, hailing what he called a "historic" step toward Islamic orthodoxy for his country.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/sultan-of-brunei/856914.html

Cross that place off my list.

Amirani

Brunei had been ranked fairly high on the human development index, watch that plummet. It'll now become a **** hole.

Pherekydes

NiallSparky wrote: »

Brunei had been ranked fairly high on the human development index, watch that plummet. It'll now become a **** hole.

Maybe they're considering a bid for the FIFA World Cup?

Sarky

Kansas attourney general loses his license for being an overzealous gob****e looking to take down Planned Parenthood no matter the cost.

Of course his lawyer is complaining that they're taking those falsified records and lying to a grand jury completely out of context :pac:

Cabaal

I guess this is a hazzard of belief

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/hell-to-pay-as-elderly-clamped-while-visiting-relics-in-limerick-1-5615440

MASS-GOERS have accused a Limerick clamping company of “preying” upon “vulnerable elderly people” who were hit with €100 clamping fines while visiting the relics of St Anthony in St John’s Cathedral.

Frankly I think the council are spot on here, regardless of age you can't just park your car where you want just to go to mass/church. Its a serious safety issue.

Given its St Anthony, maybe he intended them to loose money :pac:

donspeekinglesh

robindch wrote: »

The Sultan of Brunei introduced tough Sharia-law punishments on Tuesday including death by stoning for crimes such as adultery, hailing what he called a "historic" step toward Islamic orthodoxy for his country.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/sultan-of-brunei/856914.html

Cross that place off my list.

Was only reading this article about the Sultan and his brother the other day. They don't sound very Islamic.

Bannasidhe

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Was only reading this article about the Sultan and his brother the other day. They don't sound very Islamic.

Neither are the Kuwaiti royal family - I do wonder if the Emir's big Ol lezzie daughter is going to be subjected to their proposed 'gay test'. Presumably after the Emir has finished one of the bacon butties he was so fond off when the crown prince.

Delirium

Cabaal wrote: »

I guess this is a hazzard of belief

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/hell-to-pay-as-elderly-clamped-while-visiting-relics-in-limerick-1-5615440

Frankly I think the council are spot on here, regardless of age you can't just park your car where you want just to go to mass/church. Its a serious safety issue.

Given its St Anthony, maybe he intended them to loose money :pac:

It's beside a hospital. If ever there was a place not to park illegally, near a hospital would be up at the top of the list.