The Hazards of Belief

kylith

biko wrote: »

I like it, seems Francis is more and more like Dalai Lama.

I just can't buy it. He seems too good to be true, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Cabaal

robindch wrote: »

Obamacare up before the Supreme Court again - this time, religious people are claiming that companies which they control have a (newly established) corporate right to "the free exercise of religion". Specifically, they're claiming that any employee health insurance which is funded by a company can, if the company's decision makers wish, conform to any of their religious beliefs.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/26/opinion/wydra-supreme-court-obamacare/

Hang on,
So if you were working for a jehovah witness who owned a company that could technically mean you could be denied a blood transfusion thats covered by the policy?
:eek:

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Pope Frank says "Ideological Christians Have An 'Illness'"

So all christians are a bit touched in the head, then?

Nice to have a pope finally admit his unfaith.

PopePalpatine

I think a few posters can remember me posting a few days ago about a anti-premarital sex group coming to NUI Maynooth. I've had a look at their fliers, and...f*cking hell, if only I challenged their bull****.

The low point is easily the one about how a girl dresses may be a "temptation" for her boyfriend. It's not much to assume that these pricks believe that bullsh*t about rape victims "asking for it".

recedite

I suspect he has bumped into quite a few people there in the Vatican who he thinks don't disguise their "unfaith" as much as they should.

The Holy Father warned: “When a Christian does not pray, this happens. And his witness is an arrogant witness.” He who does not pray is “arrogant, is proud, is sure of himself. He is not humble. He seeks his own advancement.”
...“These do not pray, abandoning the faith and transforming it into moralistic, casuistic ideology, without Jesus.

I'd say there are two types of people there. Those that believe their own $hite and those that don't.
But I do like the way he ends sentences with the word "eh", even if their content is usually just jibber jabber eh?

Sulla Felix

biko wrote: »

I like it, seems Francis is more and more like Dalai Lama.

Eh, when someone can hand over a cheque and get inducted into the College of Cardinals, he'll be like the Dalai Lama, he's not that bad yet.

recedite

robindch wrote: »

religious people are claiming that companies which they control have a (newly established) corporate right to "the free exercise of religion"

This seems correct, bearing in mind that the whole point of a corporation or a limited company is that it is a legal "person" which can have all the legal functions and responsibilities of an actual human person.

I think this will hinge on whether the religion of the corporation is explicitly stated in the articles of association. If not, it would have to be assumed to be atheist or agnostic, regardless of the views of the owners.
You can have a company with a religious stance eg. Veritas which only sells books that correspond to their religious viewpoint.

Even then the corporation would not be able to renege on any healthcare provisions that were statutory. It would be similar to the way a sole trader has to comply with the law despite their personal stance, for example by not refusing whatever the service is to gay people.
Its an interesting development alright, it could lead to lots of companies being formed or "born into" a particular religion, just like people.

recedite

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Eh, when someone can hand over a cheque and get inducted into the College of Cardinals,

Eh, what do you mean, eh?

Obliq

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I think a few posters can remember me posting a few days ago about a anti-premarital sex group coming to NUI Maynooth. I've had a look at their fliers, and...f*cking hell, if only I challenged their bull****.

The low point is easily the one about how a girl dresses may be a "temptation" for her boyfriend. It's not much to assume that these pricks believe that bullsh*t about rape victims "asking for it".

Ah, don't beat yourself up over it PP. They're a dying breed, and some of them we can assist towards their doom through thorough questioning - others have to plod over the line, hopefully knowing in their last breaths how F*CKED UP it is to be that judgmental.

Sulla Felix

recedite wrote: »

Eh, what do you mean, eh?

Off the top of my head, Steven Seagal was recognized as a tulku, totally not related to his hefty donations to the war chest of Tenzin Gyatsu. He really, really is a reincarnated Buddhist Lama you see. Really.

recedite

The things you learn on this forum!
I knew he was a bit of a ninja, but I'd never even heard of a tulku.
Seems legit though, here's the statement from His Holiness Penor Rinpoche who "recognised" Seagal for what he is

Unfortunately H.H. Rinpoche seems to have died in May of this year, and is currently awaiting reincarnation. But if anyone cares to click on the "make a donation" button on his website here, and then follows that up with doing the wild thing later that night, they could well be in with a chance of becoming the proud parent of their very own little darling tulku in 9 months time, eh?

Hotblack Desiato

kylith wrote: »

I just can't buy it. He seems too good to be true, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/in-the-steps-of-st-francis-1.1612264

The pope wishes to move the Catholic church away from a narrow preoccupation with some areas of continuing controversy – relating to sex and marriage – and towards a broader concern about issues of inequality and social justice. His primary focus is on the poor; on bringing the church closer to them so that it may be evangelised by the poor and inspired by their suffering.

NB this doesn't involve any change whatsoever in doctrine - just basically keeping more quiet about the less popular stuff about sexual morality and all that.

If Pope Francis has surpassed the expectations of many to date, he has so far disappointed in just one regard. Clerical sex abuse remains the great stain on the Catholic church’s character. How Francis deals with it will define his papacy.

^ This.
All the rest about how the church must be more humble, support the poor etc. is just waffle as long as this remains unaddressed.

Nodin

Gentile sperm leads to "negative genetic traits that characterize non-Jews."

"On the subject of women who freeze their eggs to use at a later date, the rabbi asserted that instead they should concentrate their efforts on getting married younger. "

"If a child is born without a father, he cannot be 100% normal." He stated that rabbinical literature defines these kids as "criminals and subjects of other negative phenomena."


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4006385,00.html

Sarky

Nodin wrote: »

Gentile sperm leads to "negative genetic traits that characterize non-Jews."

A Jewish rabbi going on about racial purity is just... I don't even

obplayer

kylith wrote: »

I just can't buy it. He seems too good to be true, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I very much hope I'm wrong but I keep waiting for the assassin's bomb or bullet to 'drop'. He must have scared an awful lot of vested interests by now.

Bannasidhe

obplayer wrote: »

I very much hope I'm wrong but I keep waiting for the assassin's bomb or bullet to 'drop'. He must have scared an awful lot of vested interests by now.

You mean like ol John Paul I...allegedly....

Delirium

Not having your child taking part in a religious field trip and your child may get a "racial discrimination" note put on the schooling record.

A head teacher has apologised for sending parents a letter saying a "racial discrimination" note would be added to their child's education record if they did not go on a religious trip.

Pupils from Littleton Green Community School, Cannock, were expected to go to Staffordshire University to "learn about different cultures".

A letter to parents said it was a "statutory requirement".

But the school has now asked parents to "disregard a section" of the letter

Letters sent to parents said children would get a 'racial discrimination' mark if they did not go on the trip, where they would have the "opportunity to explore other religions".

They would look at "religious artefacts", the letter said, but would not be "partaking in any religious practices".

Full story here

Sulla Felix

While the school has been singularly cack handed in going about this, I actually agree with the overall purpose of exposing children to the many and diametrically opposed religions out there. In at least some of them, something will go "click" when they see you can't reconcile a caring, loving god with the fact that a hefty majority of the worlds' population doesn't believe in the local flavour.

Comic Sans was my first clue.

Sarky

Comic Saaaaaaaaaaans!

<shakes fist>

Hotblack Desiato

koth wrote: »

Not having your child taking part in a religious field trip and your child may get a "racial discrimination" note put on the schooling record.

Hmm so if parents and school don't see eye to eye on something (doesn't matter what), the school can attach a permanent black mark to the child's record.

Classy.

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

Comic Saaaaaaaaaaans!

<shakes fist>

Hey CERN used Comic Sans. SO.SHUT.TEH.FCK.UP!Q

Genghiz Cohen

Jernal wrote: »

Hey CERN used Comic Sans. SO.SHUT.TEH.FCK.UP!Q

Argument from Authority.

I really expected better Jernal.

norrie rugger

Sulla Felix wrote: »

While the school has been singularly cack handed in going about this, I actually agree with the overall purpose of exposing children to the many and diametrically opposed religions out there. In at least some of them, something will go "click" when they see you can't reconcile a caring, loving god with the fact that a hefty majority of the worlds' population doesn't believe in the local flavour.

Or just tell them, at home, that it is all bollocks and not have authority figures demonstrating that, at least one, religion is correct/acceptable

Sarky

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Argument from Authority.

I really expected better Jernal.

Not wishing to defend the lad, but Jernal WAS trying to get J C to see some sense earlier. It was probably just a symptom of the posting equivalent of beating your head against a wall of ignorance. And spikes. Spikes of dishonesty. Or something.

Turtwig

Sarky wrote: »

Not wishing to defend the lad, but Jernal WAS trying to get J C to see some sense earlier. It was probably just a symptom of the posting equivalent of beating your head against a wall of ignorance. And spikes. Spikes of dishonesty. Or something.

Brian Shanahan

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I think a few posters can remember me posting a few days ago about a anti-premarital sex group coming to NUI Maynooth. I've had a look at their fliers, and...f*cking hell, if only I challenged their bull****.

The low point is easily the one about how a girl dresses may be a "temptation" for her boyfriend. It's not much to assume that these pricks believe that bullsh*t about rape victims "asking for it".

I love the way the say "lust is still a capital sin" for the wimmins, despite capital punishment being expressly forbidden by our constitution:

Article 15.5.2 wrote:

The Oireachtas shall not enact any law providing for the imposition of the death penalty.

Must mean Ireland is officialy godless.

Brian Shanahan

recedite wrote: »

This seems correct, bearing in mind that the whole point of a corporation or a limited company is that it is a legal "person" which can have all the legal functions and responsibilities of an actual human person.

But only in certain limited cases, mostly to do with commercial matters, and representation in court over those matters of which they are deemed to have personhood.

For example (outside the soverign City of London) no company can become a citizen of a state, nor can one ever be considered to have been murdered.

In a country with a sane judiciary no court would consider a challenge saying corporations have freedom of religion to be anything other than "frivolous and vexatious". Given that this doesn't apply to the USA however they may get access to that right.

endacl

ninja900 wrote: »

Hmm so if parents and school don't see eye to eye on something (doesn't matter what), the school can attach a permanent black mark to the child's record.

Classy.

Reminded me of this classic from 27bslash6. I've included the intro, to tempt ye to enjoy the most excellent email exchange between a parent and school jebusnut regarding a permission slip to see a play about "a levitating rabbit about to drop an egg on Jesus".



http://www.27bslash6.com/easter.html
Darryl. The kind of friend Jesus would have.

While preaching is not allowed in Australian public schools, it is apparently fine to replace school counsellors with 'Christian Volunteers' such as Darryl.
A few years ago, the government realised that they could hand over school counselling roles to a willing Christian church without having to pay for the privilege. Now almost half of Australian public schools have a Christian volunteer as a full time member of the school community with parents having no direct control of how much their children are exposed to.
Although usually an advocate of people being entitled to their opinions, sexual preferences and beliefs, I seem to have developed some form of mental glitch that makes me want to punch Daryl's fat head.

robindch

Two German conspiracy theorist douchebags break into the Great Pyramid and make off with some "samples" to "prove" that it's 20,000 years old.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/two-german-students-have-vandalised-part-of-the-pyramid-of-khufu-to-help-prove-their-lost-civilisation-theory/story-e6frfqc0-1226771863820

If Egypt weren't in a state of chassis, the two should be extradited as soon as possible to face whatever music the Egyptians might wish to play.

Quatermain

Speaking as an archaeologist...*Sigh*. >.>

Turtwig

Quatermain wrote: »

Speaking as an archaeologist...*Sigh*. >.>

Archaeologist!

Class! Hope you don't mind me asking you to tell us moar about your job? (Feel free not to oblige.)

Quatermain

Jernal wrote: »

Archaeologist!

Class! Hope you don't mind me asking you to tell us moar about your job? (Feel free not to oblige.)

Hey, not a problem. Things are thin on the ground for diggers right now, but I went into archaeology and the classics to hopefully pursue museum work. I now work part-time in a museum in Dublin, which is basically a stepping stone to my dream job. I went on a few digs in the Wicklow mountains, and spent a summer cataloguing finds from Knowth, which is a passage tomb near Newgrange. I've always loved material culture and written history, and putting the pieces together from looking at the evidence.

Which is the long and short of it. Of course, I'd always be delighted to talk about the specifics of the field in detail.

robindch

The Dutch senate votes to repeal a blasphemy law dating from 1932 and last prosecuted around 50 years ago. Religious parties vote to keep it.

http://www.amsterdamherald.com/index.php/rss/1076-20131203-dutch-senate-votes-repeal-blasphemy-law-dating-1932-netherlands-religion-politics

Amsterdam Herald wrote:

The Netherlands has formally repealed its 80-year-old law of blasphemy nearly half a century after it was last enforced in practice. Members of the Dutch Senate approved a motion to abolish the offence, which was passed by the Lower House in March despite resistance from the confessional Christian parties.

The law forbidding “abusive blasphemy” has been on the statue book since 1932, when a communist magazine caused a public outcry by publishing articles and cartoons that mocked religion. It has been effectively dormant since 1968, when novelist Gerard Reve was prosecuted and acquitted of the offence, but blasphemers could still theoretically be fined or sent to prison. One Liberal (VVD) politician told NRC: “The abolition of this law is just as symbolic as its existence.”

The Senate vote was the end of a long campaign to abolish the ban which was held back by political sensitivity. It gained momentum in the wake of the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was stabbed to death by an Islamist fanatic in 2003. The Christian Democrat justice minister, Piet Hein Donner, pledged to revive and strengthen the law, at which point opposition parties launched a counter-initiative to scrap it because it infringed on freedom of speech. Donner’s grandfather, Jan Donner, had originally introduced the law in 1932.

Members of the Liberal and Labour (PvdA) parties in the current coalition government argued that it was out of date and voted to abolish it. But the two Christian parties CU and SGP, which have eight out of 150 seats in the Lower House and three of the 100 senators, argued forcefully for its retention. They threatened to withdraw support for the cabinet, which depends on the votes of smaller parties in the Senate, where it does not have a majority.

The VVD withdrew its support for an attempt to repeal the blasphemy law during the last parliament, when it headed a minority centre-right coalition with the Christian Democrats (CDA), because it wanted to retain the support of the religious factions.

The ban on insulting religion may not be scrapped altogether. Senators put forward a motion calling for the cabinet to extend the provisions of another law to give “adequate protection” to religious groups.

Cabaal

robindch wrote: »

The Dutch senate votes to repeal a blasphemy law dating from 1932 and last prosecuted around 50 years ago. Religious parties vote to keep it.

http://www.amsterdamherald.com/index.php/rss/1076-20131203-dutch-senate-votes-repeal-blasphemy-law-dating-1932-netherlands-religion-politics

Given the massive drop in support for the catholic/christian faith and others in the Netherlands I'm not surprised by this at all, progressive move though

robindch

News of the collapse of the Dutch catholic church has reached the Vatican:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dutch-bishops-tell-pope-the-church-is-collapsing-as-they-face-hundreds-of-c

Ok, it's lifesitenews, but the interview they quote from is here.

Cabaal

robindch wrote: »

News of the collapse of the Dutch catholic church has reached the Vatican:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/dutch-bishops-tell-pope-the-church-is-collapsing-as-they-face-hundreds-of-c

Ok, it's lifesitenews, but the interview they quote from is here.

Only 5% eh?
Any idea what the number going to mass in Ireland is?

We have what, 82% of the pop say they are catholic, I'm guessing 12% go to mass regularly....maybe 9%?

Not surprised at the drop, when you have backward fools that make comments like this in the comment section

Well, let's just hope that the few who are left are faithful. Because Catholics who are always lobbying for women priests, gay "marriage", abortion, etc. are not helping the Church.

It really shows how disconnected some people are from what the majority actually want,

robindch

Cabaal wrote: »

It really shows how disconnected some people are from what the majority actually want,

Well, the church is stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, it's wildly out of sync with modern ethical thinking and that's causing its client population to desert it in droves. Yet neither can it reverse its wild-eyed claims about gay marriage, abortion, etc because, in its own eyes, it still needs to assert that its own moral guidance is "eternal and unchanging" etc.

So Pope Frank has chosen the only realistic option which is to play down Ratzinger's hardline conservative stuff, and instead, play up to people's nicer side and that does seem to have slowed the rate of desertion in some countries. But that said, at this stage, it seems to me they've overstepped some systemic, irrecoverable limit and it's going to be impossible for them to recover the baleful influence they once had.

pauldla

robindch wrote: »

Well, the church is stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, it's wildly out of sync with modern ethical thinking and that's causing its client population to desert it in droves. Yet neither can it reverse its wild-eyed claims about gay marriage, abortion, etc because, in its own eyes, it still needs to assert that its own moral guidance is "eternal and unchanging" etc.

So Pope Frank has chosen the only realistic option which is to play down Ratzinger's hardline conservative stuff, and instead, play up to people's nicer side and that does seem to have slowed the rate of desertion in some countries. But that said, at this stage, it seems to me they've overstepped some systemic, irrecoverable limit and it's going to be impossible for them to recover the baleful influence they once had.

I'll raise a glass to that!

robindch

bluewolf wrote: »

More from these

http://www.examiner.com/article/another-child-s-death-linked-to-pearls-and-to-train-up-a-child

:(:(

News of the death of a third child with links to that book:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25268343

PopePalpatine

Michael Pearl, as quoted by that BBC article wrote:

There's no way that a person who reads the book could be led to violence.

That fucking piece of shit needs to feel the pain his book is causing to thousands of children each day. I feel nothing but hatred for that failed abortion of a human being.

robindch

Russian Supreme Court criticizes the Pussy Riot verdict while Putain brings forward legislation which could "allow" him to set them free:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25347132

Obliq

PopePalpatine wrote: »

That fucking piece of shit needs to feel the pain his book is causing to thousands of children each day. I feel nothing but hatred for that failed abortion of a human being.

Harsh! ....yet nicely put :cool:

robindch

In Florida, a kid of around ten writes a speech explaining that religion has been used to justify mass-murder. The school's assistant principal is so shocked that she strips him of his win, tells him he can't read the speech to his classmates and can't represent the school at an inter-school speech competition either. The kid gets upset, family gets involved and eventually, the assistant principal relents. Kind of.

The short speech is here and the media report is here:

http://www.wfla.com/story/24208236/5th-graders-religion-speech-sparks-controversy

WFLA wrote:

Zachary Golob-Drake, a 5th-grader at the Patel Partnership School in Tampa, won first place in his class for his speech about the history of people using religion to justify murder. He has a brief paragraph on the Crusades, Genghis Khan and the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. He ends the speech by encouraging the "Golden Rule", saying that would "make the world a better place." But, he says, his blue ribbon was stripped from him by the end of the school day on Wednesday.

Golob-Drake was supposed to deliver the speech Thursday morning to the entire 4th and 5th grades. Two winners - one from each grade - were to be chosen to represent the school at the the regional 4-H Tropicana Public Speech contest. But Golob-Drake says the assistant principal pulled him aside before school was dismissed and told him his speech was inappropriate.

"She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn't appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete." He said he told her he needed to think about it at home. "She said to me probably the fairest thing to do is to take your ribbon," he said, noting that he then got emotional.

By the time his older brother picked him from school, he was crying. His brother ended up going back to school and talking to the assistant principal. Their mother, Rhonda Golob-Drake, said the assistant principal ended up giving back the ribbon. She then spent four hours on the phone with school officials and school district officials and called representatives from the Tropicana contest.

By the end of the night, the school decided to postpone the contest until Monday. In the meantime, parents of 4th and 5th graders will receive permission slips. The form will list all of the speech titles and let parents decide whether or not they want their children to hear Golob-Drake's speech or any of the other speeches.

School District Spokeswoman Tanya Arja said school officials told her that the controversy wasn't about the religious aspect. "The concern was over the topic of mass murders," Arja said. "Because these are 4th and 5th graders."

robindch

Laurence Krauss's performance at an islamic debate a few months back prompted a wider debate in the UK about whether religious organizations should be allowed to segregate audiences according to their own specific religious whims. UUK, the body which represents UK universities, issued guidelines saying that this segregation was fine, so long as women and men sat 'beside' each other, rather than men at the front and women at the back.

But no longer. The Education Secretary weighed in, saying it was a "disgrace" and "pandered to extremists". Then, David Cameron's spokesman faffed around the same general topic in the same general direction, so the UUK has withdrawn its advice:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/dec/13/universities-uk-withdraws-advice-gender-segregation

Turtwig

Hopefully this is a strawman. They actually supported segregation? :eek:

Brian Shanahan

Jernal wrote: »

Hopefully this is a strawman. They actually supported segregation? :eek:

It is not a straw man, they did support segregation.

I'm actually suprised the tories decided to come out against. They tend to be very pro-religious when it comes to something like this. But then again they're trying to include "automatically traitorous to the UK" in the OED definition of muslim.

Banbh

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4465927,00.html
Jewish women who couldn't go to the religious baths, required after menstruation, were offered a special bus that would brave the snow storm to bring the women to be purified.

Obliq

Banbh wrote: »

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4465927,00.html
Jewish women who couldn't go to the religious baths, required after menstruation, were offered a special bus that would brave the snow storm to bring the women to be purified.

Hmmm. That well known vehicle graffiti "Wash Me" just took on a whole new meaning....

But wouldn't ya think the rabbis would have just hastily blessed (or whatever) a few bathtubs in the interim....after all, they manage to move the goal posts with the "eruv" - ever so handily allowing people to treat the outside world as their homes on the Sabbath by creating an unbroken line of stuff.

Nodin

Obliq wrote: »

Hmmm. That well known vehicle graffiti "Wash Me" just took on a whole new meaning....

But wouldn't ya think the rabbis would have just hastily blessed (or whatever) a few bathtubs in the interim....after all, they manage to move the goal posts with the "eruv" - ever so handily allowing people to treat the outside world as their homes on the Sabbath by creating an unbroken line of stuff.

Has to be a specially constructed bath, afaik.