The Hazards of Belief

The Mad Hatter

Afghanistan's only pig placed in quarantine. Link.

Not strictly religious, I know, but it does show a striking absence of logic and knowledge of how diseases work on the part of the Afghan leadership (or whoever decided to quarantine the poor creature).

philologos

cavedave wrote: »

Support for terror suspect torture differs among the faithful (here)

The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists

More likely due to political / national affiliations rather than religious ones. Be careful.

CerebralCortex

Jakkass wrote: »

More likely due to political / national affiliations rather than religious ones. Be careful.

Would I not be careful if I were to say that those of a right wing nature tend to be religious too?

philologos

Torture isn't advocated in Christianity, and if it is by the pulpit that's improper conduct IMO. Infact I'd say that it should be condemned by the pulpit if anything. People like Sean Hannity saying that "I support waterboarding as a Christian" doesn't mean that it is infact advocated in the Bible or by Christ.

ZorbaTehZ

Star Tribune wrote:

A mother testified that religious beliefs prevent her son from taking chemo. Doctors said he will likely die without it.

NEW ULM, MINNESOTA

The mother of 13-year-old Daniel Hauser testified Friday that she and her son would refuse to comply with any court order requiring the boy to resume chemotherapy for his cancer.

"Danny clearly made up his mind. He's not doing it,'' Colleen Hauser, of Sleepy Eye, Minn., testified on the opening day of a trial over whether a court should order the boy into medical treatment against the family's wishes.

Hauser, whose son was diagnosed in January with Hodgkin's lymphoma, said conventional treatments such as chemotherapy conflict with the family's religious beliefs. She said they prefer natural remedies such as herbs and vitamins.

Asked where she learned about the alternative healing techniques, Hauser said, "on the Internet.''

Daniel sat stoically through the opening part of the trial as his first oncologist, Dr. Bruce Bostrom of Children's Hospitals and Clinics in Minneapolis, testified that his chances of survival would drop to 5 percent without treatment.

The boy left shortly afterward and never returned to the courtroom. He is scheduled to testify this morning in a closed session before the judge, after his lawyer said he was uncomfortable talking in open court. The case is expected to be finished today, and the judge said he didn't expect to issue a ruling this weekend.

As a day of tense testimony began, dozens of family friends and supporters lined the courtroom, but the mood was subdued. At one point, a handful of natural-health advocates arrived with signs to show their support for the Hausers. But they were ordered to leave their placards outside the courthouse.

The Hausers declined to speak to reporters after Friday's court session. But Dan Zwakman, a member of the Nemenhah religious group to which they belong, acted as the family spokesman. He argued that this is a case about religious freedom, noting that the group's motto is "our religion is our medicine."

Absolutely terrible tbh

PZ Myers piece on it also.

Galvasean

Horrible. What sort of religion won't let a sick kid have treatment?

Dades

A stupid deluded one.

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

Horrible. What sort of religion won't let a sick kid have treatment?

Well, it looks like the law has overruled the parents' idiocy even if it may be too late. Last Friday, the judge in ruled that the kid must attend doctors immediately and, if it's still likely to help, to undergo chemotherapy as soon as practicable:

http://wcco.com/local/chemo.therapy.ordered.2.1010319.html

The judge has also said that if the doctors recommend therapy and the family refuses permission, that the kid will be taken into custody and it will be done regardless.

One sad one up for American justice.

robindch

And in other news, GQ magazine (huh?) has got its hands on what it claims are briefs written by, or at the behest of, the then-Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld. They seem to have been intended for President Bush, so that he could be, er, enlightened in the run up to, and during, the invasion of Iraq.

They're basically pictures of military nonsense liberally illustrated with biblical quotations so that the reader would know what to think. There's a selection of them available here:

http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret

If this is true -- and frankly, it looks like a big if to me -- then it seems that the military briefings which guided Bush's tremulous, uneducated finger into Iraq seem to have been little more than imbecile-level religious cartoon-books.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

If this is true -- and frankly, it looks like a big if to me -- then it seems that the military briefings which guided Bush's tremulous, uneducated finger into Iraq seem to have been little more than imbecile-level religious cartoon-books.

Nah, that couldn't be true... Could it?

No, no. Surely not. It's a little too dumbed down, even for Bush.

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

Nah, that couldn't be true... Could it?

Well, no sooner posted than... the Beeb picked up the story, albeit with a certain amount of circumspection:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8056207.stm

It's currently the most popular article on BBC News website, comfortably outranking the item about General Franco having only "one testicle".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8066005.stm

At least 11 people have been injured during a fight inside a Sikh temple in the Austrian capital Vienna.

Police said five men armed with knives and another with a pistol started a fight in the temple, the BBC's Bethany Bell reports.

The number of injured is expected to rise, a police spokeswoman said.

It is unclear what caused the fight, with reports of a feud between rival families and also of disputes with worshippers at other Sikh temples.

5uspect

On a lighter note:
Family see Jesus image in Marmite
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8071865.stm

"We've had a tough couple of months; my mum's been really ill and it's comforting to think that if he is there, he's watching over us."

You'd think Jesus would just cure her mother rather than compel the yeast to form his image on a jar lid.

Genghiz Cohen

Looks like a man chasing Yoshi to me...

Flamed Diving

US abortion doctor is shot dead

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8076253.stm

5uspect

Odd that the shooter "fled the scene".
Why would you run if you were going God's work?

Zillah

5uspect wrote: »

Odd that the shooter "fled the scene".
Why would you run if you were going God's work?

The liberal media might try to portray his act of shooting someone in the street as bad some how.

Tyler MacDurden

Found this rather disturbing tale on RichardDawkins.net.

Original story here:

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25590813-5005941,00.html

And an excellent blog on the case, and on homeopathy generally:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/05/homeopathy-kills/

Homeopathy kills

[Note: This post may upset some people. It damn sure upset me. If you are easily upset by pediatric medical stories that do not end well, then you might want to skip reading this. The title alone may be all you need to know.]

Homeopathy is the antiscientific belief that infinitely diluted medicine in water can cure various ailments. It’s perhaps the most ridiculous of all "alternative" medicines, since it clearly cannot work, does not work, and has been tested repeatedly and shown to be useless.

And for those who ask, "what’s the harm?", you may direct your question to Thomas Sam and his wife Manju Sam, whose nine-month-old daughter died because of their homeopathic beliefs.

The infant girl, Gloria Thomas, died of complications due to eczema. Eczema. This is an easily-treatable skin condition (the treatments don’t cure eczema but do manage it), but that treatment was withheld from the baby girl by her parents, who rejected the advice of doctors and instead used homeopathic treatments. The baby’s condition got worse, with her skin covered in rashes and open cracks. These cracks let in germs which her tiny body had difficulty fighting off. She became undernourished as she used all her nutrients to fight infections instead of for growth and the other normal body functions of an infant. She was constantly sick and in pain, but her parents stuck with homeopathy. When the baby girl developed an eye infection, her parents finally took her to a hospital, but it was far too late: little Gloria Thomas succumbed to septicemia from the infection.

Thomas and Manju Sam were convicted yesterday of manslaughter in Australian court. As a parent myself I cannot even begin to imagine the pain they are going through, the anguish and the emotional horror. But let us be clear here: their belief in a clearly wrong antiscientific medical practice killed their baby. Homeopathy doesn’t work, but because they were raised in an environment that supports belief in homeopathy, they trusted it. They used it, and they rejected real, science-based medicine. And their daughter suffered the consequences.

And suffer she did. The accounts of the pediatricians who tried too late to help little Gloria Thomas are simply harrowing.

Every time I hear about something like this — a baby dying due to "alternative" medicine, or the lies and disinformation from the antivaccination movement, or some other belief system that flies in the face of reality — a little bit of me dies as well. I held my daughter shortly after she was born, and I would have done anything to protect her, and that included and still includes protecting her against people who fight so adamantly against reality.

The reality is that the antivaxxers’ work will result in babies dying. The reality is that belief in homeopathy will result in more babies dying. The reality is that denying science-based medicine will result in more babies dying.

And I know these words will fall on many deaf ears. And I will guarantee the comments to this post will contain many loud and irrational arguments supporting homeopathy and the antivaxxers. I’ve seen it before, and I know that many of those people are completely immune to reason and logic. And if you wonder what might wake them up, the answer may very well be nothing. Just read what Gloria Thomas’ father — the man just convicted of the manslaughter of his own daughter — had to say:

But even after Gloria died, Thomas Sam adhered to his belief that homeopathy was equally valid to conventional medicine for the treatment of eczema.

He told police: “Conventional medicine would have prolonged her life … with more misery. It’s not going to cure her and that’s what I strongly believe.”

He and his wife face 25 years in jail, where they will have plenty of time to rethink their convictions.

robindch

Zillah wrote: »

The liberal media might try to portray his act of shooting someone in the street as bad some how.

Meanwhile, down the road in Kentucky, a church-owner wants to fill his building with armed men and women at the end of this month:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_re_us/us_guns_in_church

"We're just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety", explained the preacher.

ZorbaTehZ

So some Islamic mother was convinced that her kid was possessed, so she starved her to death.

skyscraperblue

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Man I love how worked up the reporter is getting in this interview

http://www.clipstr.com/videos/BrianFlemmingOnFoxNews/

I thought the news was supposed to be impartial?
He kinda loses it. I always wanna scream at these people and tell them that atheists are in fact not the devil, and yes, you know what, they really are capable of actually doing good things in the world, just as much as Christians or members of any other religion. (Although I'm not sure screaming would really enforce that idea all that much.)

robindch

A religious couple who spend the weekends in a flat in Dorset say they're being discriminated against by the apartment's management company which has installed motion sensors which turn on and off the hallway lights. Under the rules of their religion, they're not allowed to start fires on a Saturday, and electricity causes sparks which are "fire" (huh?). This means that once they enter their flat on a Friday evening, they're stuck there until Saturday evening, since opening the door will cause the lights to come on.

They're seeking £5,000 in damages too, which, if it's awarded, will have to be paid by their neighbors. More on this here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/dorset/8103581.stm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6513866.ece

Some of the comments on the Times' website are worth reading.

Zillah

If those damages are paid I'm firebombing something.

No I kid, I'll just write a book. It's the militant atheist way!

Dades

"It is not going to inconvenience anybody, especially if [the Colemans] have offered to pay for the override switch themselves. A small consideration offered in an atmosphere of give and take would help to make the world a better place.”

People giving up their bonkers ideas and entering the real world would be a better move, tbh.

Tyler MacDurden

But Chanie Alperowitz, the director of Bournemouth Chabad, an Orthodox Jewish group, said: “On the sabbath there are 39 forms of creative activity which are forbidden. Among them is the prohibition of lighting a fire.

“When using electricity, one causes a fire as there are sparks created by the electricity. If the light is switched on by someone stepping outside their door, their actions have caused it to happen.

By this logic, pulling your favourite woolly jumper over your head is forbidden too, lest you ignite The Fires of Hell static sparks. And Yahweh forgive anyone who shuffles across a carpet and reaches for the brass doorknob.

robindch

Tyler MacDurden wrote: »

By this logic, pulling your favourite woolly jumper over your head is forbidden too, lest you ignite The Fires of Hell static sparks.

There was a comment, I think on the Times' website, yesterday from another orthodox guy. He said that the couple concerned were being a bit silly and said they should try to come up with something more workable.

So he gave the example of hisself and his wifey who were forbidden from turning on the telly on saturday, but wanted to watch something anyway, so they used to set a timer on Friday evening and then hang around until it went off and the telly came on.

God must have given a brain to these fine people so that they could figure out how to get around his laws

Galvasean

Pretty sad state of affairs:
'Catholic mother killed newborn baby from 'shame' after giving birth alone'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5565706/Catholic-mother-killed-newborn-baby-from-shame-after-giving-birth-alone.html


On a lighter note however, a group of witches accuse Catholics of prejudice forr not letting them use thei club:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/8107260.stm

Zillah

Galvasean wrote: »

Pretty sad state of affairs:
'Catholic mother killed newborn baby from 'shame' after giving birth alone'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5565706/Catholic-mother-killed-newborn-baby-from-shame-after-giving-birth-alone.html[/url

That's one of the more depressing stories I've read of late.

Dades

Being 'forced' to quit your job could be a Hazard of Belief!

Devout Catholic nurse resigns over hospital crucifix ban

In the last 12 months two relatives of mine caught MRSA in hospitals and have seen how easily it can happen. I don't think it's being unreasonable that she not have her beads dangling around every patient. It sounds like a sad case of needing to 'display' her faith rather than simply have it.

Sympathy = zero.

5uspect

Apparently copper kills the MRSA bug. Would a copper cross be acceptable?

EDIT: Then again they would claim it cures MRSA and start rubbing big copper crucifixes on the patients...

robindch

Life continues on the other side of the fence:

Arguably uncharacteristically, one RCC outlet is heeding medical advice from doctors. A cynic would suggest that it's because it's their health at stake.
http://www.wlfi.com/dpp/news/local_wlfi_lafayette_H1N1_prompts_changes_in_Catholic_church_20090628

Sally Kerns, of the Oklahoma state legislature, blames the economic downturn on a bunch of things including -- you guessed it -- gays and porn. Issues a splendidly silly Proclamation for Morality to suit. This happens some months after police catch Ms Kern carrying weapons into the State Capitol.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/sally-kerns-proclamation-morality

Trailer-park peeps will be trailer-park peeps, even if they call themselves "Manna Christian Mobile Home Park":
http://www.news-press.com/article/20090628/CRIME/90628021/1075

Texas prelate ignores church-state separation. Engages with state trooper enthusiastically. Gets hisself tasered and his flock pepper-sprayed.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/national/Texas_Police_Taser_Pastor_Helping_Driver_in_Traffic_Stop_17304254

pts

"Thrown pig leads to religious riots in India"

CNN wrote:

NEW DELHI, India (CNN) -- Three people have been killed in religious rioting in southern India between Muslims and Hindus, police said Friday.

Widespread violence broke out in Mysore Thursday after somebody threw a dead pig into the compound of an under-construction mosque, city police commissioner Sunil Agarwal told CNN.

More than a dozen people were injured in the clashes, he said.

Police fired tear gas and used bamboo sticks to break up the rioting, according to Agarwal.

Authorities have, for now, banned assembly of five or more people on the streets of the troubled area, according to the police.

Mysore is a city in Karnataka, India's only southern state governed by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata

When pigs fly eh?

robindch

pts wrote: »

Thrown pig leads to religious riots in India

Sounds like a bad case of Swine Flew.

pts

robindch wrote: »

Sounds like a bad case of Swine Flew.

ha ha, should have seen that one coming.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

Being 'forced' to quit your job could be a Hazard of Belief!

Devout Catholic nurse resigns over hospital crucifix ban

In the last 12 months two relatives of mine caught MRSA in hospitals and have seen how easily it can happen. I don't think it's being unreasonable that she not have her beads dangling around every patient. It sounds like a sad case of needing to 'display' her faith rather than simply have it.

Sympathy = zero.

A spokesman said: 'The issue is not one of religion, the trust employs a uniform policy which must be adhered to at all times.
'This policy applies to all staff employed by the trust and who wear a uniform on duty.
'Necklaces and chains present two problems, firstly, they provide a surface that can harbour and spread infections.

'Secondly, they present a health and safety issue whereby a patient could grab a necklace or chain and cause harm to the member of staff.
'As an employer, the trust has a responsibility to ensure that all staff are provided with a safe environment to be able to go about their duty.
'Jewellery is restricted to one pair of plain or unobtrusive studs in the earlobes only and no other facial piercings are permitted, including tongue studs.
'One plain ring/band is permitted on the ring finger

So she broke the rules, got called on it, then threw a hissy fit?

sionnach

Another heartbreaking and infuriating case where a young girl's parents asked God to heal her instead of a doctor with the usual outcome:

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2009/07/jury_hears_father_recount_fait.html

Galvasean

Religious protestors start riot. But wait, they're Jewish!?!?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/06/2617502.htm?section=world

lankysexybeast

Galvasean wrote: »

Religious protestors start riot. But wait, they're Jewish!?!?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/06/2617502.htm?section=world

"Islam is not violent.... cut anyones head off who says it is"

pts

Galvasean wrote: »

Religious protestors start riot. But wait, they're Jewish!?!?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/06/2617502.htm?section=world

Now with video!! Good old Faux news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVFJb1jFhI

Dades

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8147329.stm

a group of about 20 or 30 police officers entered the popular Khartoum restaurant and arrested all the women wearing trousers.

The mind boggles.

Dave!

Don't you hate pants?!

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8147329.stm

The mind boggles.

Have you noticed the corralation between the rise of aids and the fall of pants in Africa?

pts

Dave! wrote: »

Don't you hate pants?!

They sound like slightly evolved Underpants Gnomes to me, with a devilish clever business plan:

1. Collect Pants
2. ?
3. Prophet

Galvasean

pts wrote: »

They sound like slightly evolved Underpants Gnomes to me, with a devilish clever business plan:

1. Collect Pants
2. ?
3. Prophet

Nice Freudian slip

Skrynesaver

From an article in the Guardian

Today, the Bishop of Chelmsford, the Right Reverend John Gladwin, advised his diocese to temporarily end the use of holy water for fear it could pass the virus through congregations.

It would appear that the traditional sprinkle of blessed water is no longer a cure-all

fitz0

From the same article,

Pastoral visits to the ailing should be avoided, he added, and when needed clergy should wear sterile gloves, an apron and a face mask.

So its Dr. Priest now is it?

MrPudding

I don't undertand why the clergy don't trust the good lord to protect them whilst they are carrying out his work. It is almost as if they don't have faith in his all poweredness. And even if they did get it would that not mean god was calling them to him and they should be happy?

MrP

Tyler MacDurden

Andrea Bruce of The Washington Post won Third Place for her series on female circumcision in Iraqi Kurdistan. Pretty harrowing stuff here.

The mother of one mutilated 7 year-old said this:

“This is the practice of the Kurdish people for as long as anyone can remember,” said the mother, Aisha Hameed, 30, a housewife in this ethnically mixed town 150 miles north of Baghdad. “We don’t know why we do it, but we will never stop because Islam and our elders require it.”

There's a perpetual cycle of misery if ever there was one.

Dades

That whole business has to be one of the most cowardly and disgusting practices ever to hide itself under the umbrella of religion.

FFS it's the 21st century. :mad:

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

That whole business has to be one of the most cowardly and disgusting practices ever to hide itself under the umbrella of religion.

FFS it's the 21st century. :mad:

Oh hey we can't have women enjoying sex now can we? That's all intimidating and weird and stuff. Better to just cut pieces off of their bodies so they're inanimate sex objects instead.

*filled with more anti-religion rage than usual*