Forum Requests

SpAcEd OuT

It has now been six months since the Legal Highs forum request was made and not one admin has commented in the thread. The board has been given full support by 24 boards.ie regular posters and has been requested many times before. Whilst I know deciding on a forum such as the legal highs forum takes a little while longer to dwell on it would still be nice to get some feedback from an admin as to what is happening.

Thanks

Cloud

Personally, I don't know if we should take this on. Just listen to any of the stories in the past year about the people who've died from the previously legal magic mushrooms, and you'd be put off thinking of bringing any responsibility for such incidents on boards.ie as a provider of information.

Officially, it's up to the admin team, and I'll have to go with the overall consensus (if we can reach one).

DEVVVVVVV!

SpAcEd OuT

I just don't really see how it would be diffrent from the beer/spirits/wine forum with regards to legal issues

nesf

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

I just don't really see how it would be diffrent from the beer/spirits/wine forum with regards to legal issues

Because socially they are regarded as being very different to beer/spirits/wine and smoking? Personally I don't look at them in that way but society at large does, thus it could create a lot of hassle for the admins imho.

And there are a lot of health concerns. Some idiot posting about the wonderful high he got from smoking (insert random dangerous substance here) and some other idiot going off and smoking it could cause a very large headache for this site.

It just takes one idiot to **** it up for everyone else after all.

The_Minister

As far as I know, the general rule is that you wait for the admins to decide and you don't pester them. I think its in the Forums forum charter.

The Legal Highs board would have to be very strictly moderated and I doubt you'll find enough mods who would be "hard" enough to keep an eye on it.

SpAcEd OuT

I'm well aware of the rules but I didn't think I was being unreasonable after waiting 6 months without any feedback from the admins.

Agree about the moderater issue though, they would have to be extremely dedicated/tough and knowledgable would be pretty difficult finding someone who fits all these criterias

Tar.Aldarion

Because socially they are regarded as being very different to beer/spirits/wine and smoking? Personally I don't look at them in that way but society at large does, thus it could create a lot of hassle for the admins imho.

That is pretty much the difference. Our generation has a different view however. I don't know but I would err on it being ok. If it's legal, meh no hassel. The ones that are still legal are ok I think.
Even mushrooms were, poeple were exagerating things. When that kid jumped off a building on mushrooms, was it three bottles of wine he had as well?
Drinking etc kills exponetialy more people. There would have to be strict moderating etc.
I doubt the forum would be hassle.
/me pulls a cloud.
DEVVVV

koneko

Drinking kills many people every year but no one is looking to ban it.
One guy dies and it may or may not have been in relation to mushrooms but everyone goes mental, bans them. I'm sure you can see that there is a big difference there, and the 'mins don't want to get the site shut down because of scaremongering. Better safe than sorry and all that.

Talliesin

There's been quite a few comments in the past (the first suggestion of a Legal Highs forum or similar was some years ago now) by DeVore to the extent that he'd like to see such a forum created, given that there is a clear interest in it amongst quite a few users, but that it could cause all manner of headaches.

Unless you can show how to get rid of the headaches, or reduce them to an acceptable level (or demonstrate convincingly that there will be no such headaches) I don't see that position changing just because a new Legal Highs thread started in the recent 6 months.

nesf

Elytron wrote:

How so? One idiot goes of and hurts himself because he read something on this site. how does that effect this site?

Mountain. Mole Hill. Give the people what they want, make it subscribers only.

Eh, do you follow the news at all?

DeVore

Yes. My genuine apologies for not having made any move on this despite promising to come to a decision about it before. The reason for this is that the Admins simply cannot come to a decision about it. Its not that we are split 3vs2 or anything, each of us individually has pros and cons we cannot reconcile about the topic.

Hence making a decision is hard and giving you compelling answers to the inevitable question of "why" or "why not" is harder.

The short answer is we are not going to have a Legal Highs forum at the moment.

The long answer is personal, complex and difficult to argue simply because I dont 100% believe in it myself, as I indicated above.

We are not talking about a campaign forum to relegalise mushrooms. That I would pass immediately because its a political issue. Nor a campaign forum for the decriminalisation of canabis or marajuana. That too I would agree with.

My problem is that I cannot get over the abusability of the forum, the potential for legal action nor the nagging idea that perhaps this ISNT really a good idea in the first place.

I'm not sure I want someone posting guidelines about inhaling or ingesting things which were not meant for that purpose.

Its facetious that you align this with alcohol. If I tell you how to drink pints and that you will get drunk by doing so thats all well and good. You cannot seriously be comparing that to someone describing how to get high from Whippet-can gas inhalation. Someone follows that description and ends up dead, we end up on News at Ten.

Now, I don't much mind being on News at Ten or in the courts if I believe in the case. I'm fully aware and expectant that until the law is changed, at some stage we're going to have to test that law. Ok, we'll fight that fight.

My problem is that I dont want it on my conscience. Nor do I want it on my conscience that people may have been introduced to this danger through Boards. I have abused (illegal) drugs in my past life. Something few people here realise. I accept and acknowledge the good times I've had and there were good times... I am also coming to terms with the damage it has done to my life and how close it was to radically damaging it.

Who do I get to shout for when everyone shouts for me to decide?
This is my decision, its one of the toughest I've taken on Boards but this is my decision and I'm sorry to dissappoint you.

DeV.

Tar.Aldarion

Drink vs drugs, neither may kill you when you get inebriated off them, what you do whilst inebriated is why they are compared. Simply put, a hell of a lot people die and suffer abuse because of drink.
Anyway that's far from any point.

Good answer, what I expected you to say.
Hopefully the law you mention will be changed. Whilst somebody might err slightly on the other side of the fence(like me) and go for a test/strict moderation route or whatever, it's easy to be the hurler on the ditch.

SpAcEd OuT

DeVore wrote:

Yes. My genuine apologies for not having made any move on this despite promising to come to a decision about it before. The reason for this is that the Admins simply cannot come to a decision about it. Its not that we are split 3vs2 or anything, each of us individually has pros and cons we cannot reconcile about the topic.

Hence making a decision is hard and giving you compelling answers to the inevitable question of "why" or "why not" is harder.

The short answer is we are not going to have a Legal Highs forum at the moment.

The long answer is personal, complex and difficult to argue simply because I dont 100% believe in it myself, as I indicated above.

We are not talking about a campaign forum to relegalise mushrooms. That I would pass immediately because its a political issue. Nor a campaign forum for the decriminalisation of canabis or marajuana. That too I would agree with.

My problem is that I cannot get over the abusability of the forum, the potential for legal action nor the nagging idea that perhaps this ISNT really a good idea in the first place.

I'm not sure I want someone posting guidelines about inhaling or ingesting things which were not meant for that purpose.

Its facetious that you align this with alcohol. If I tell you how to drink pints and that you will get drunk by doing so thats all well and good. You cannot seriously be comparing that to someone describing how to get high from Whippet-can gas inhalation. Someone follows that description and ends up dead, we end up on News at Ten.

Now, I don't much mind being on News at Ten or in the courts if I believe in the case. I'm fully aware and expectant that until the law is changed, at some stage we're going to have to test that law. Ok, we'll fight that fight.

My problem is that I dont want it on my conscience. Nor do I want it on my conscience that people may have been introduced to this danger through Boards. I have abused (illegal) drugs in my past life. Something few people here realise. I accept and acknowledge the good times I've had and there were good times... I am also coming to terms with the damage it has done to my life and how close it was to radically damaging it.

Who do I get to shout for when everyone shouts for me to decide?
This is my decision, its one of the toughest I've taken on Boards but this is my decision and I'm sorry to dissappoint you.

DeV.

That's a fair enough answer.

Any chance of a possible forum for drug discussion though, where people could debate prohibition, talk about campaigns for the reclassification of drugs, talk about drug expiriences [i.e trip reports], discuss scientific studies on Drugs as well as stories in the media on drugs, personally I think it would be a great success, no discussing how to use drugs, where to get drugs, recommending drugs etc. with permanent bans for anyone who breaks this rule.

What do you think ?

Faith

I think that ^^^ is a good idea. I'd certainly be interested in it. It would need very strict moderation though.

DeVore

I'm interested in that too but yes it would want to have neutral moderatorship and quite strict. Thats a much wider and more fundamentally interesting forum. I'll provisionally OK that subject to finding experienced mods, admin non-disagreement and a satisfactory charter.

My requirements for the charter would be:
1. Absolutely no suggestion of supply, knowledge of supply or intent to supply. Immediate site wide ban.

2. No how to's. This isnt an instruction manual for drug taking.

I'm undecided on "trip reports". I will comply with any disclosure order we get is someone decides to follow up on it (ie the cops), however obviously recounting experiences both good and bad need to be aired.

DeV.

Giblet

I think trip reports are a good idea provided certain things like explicit details of preparation are left out.

DeVore

The potential for

1. Glorification of drugs, ie: if they have a good trip or even not so good, they report it in glowing terms where as if they had a bad trip, they say nothing.

2. Exageration, ie: I took 13 E and was fnckin mad out of it...

are both very real. That needs careful consideration.

DeV.

Faith

I think it would be good if there were reports of negative experiences, it could act as a deterrant to potential users. I know that if I was considering trying a particular illegal drug, I'd research it first and I'd really like to hear about peoples negative experiences with that drug.

Positive reports should maybe not be allowed, for the reasons you've listed.

SpAcEd OuT

DeVore wrote:

The potential for

1. Glorification of drugs, ie: if they have a good trip or even not so good, they report it in glowing terms where as if they had a bad trip, they say nothing.

2. Exageration, ie: I took 13 E and was fnckin mad out of it...

are both very real. That needs careful consideration.

DeV.

Only mention the drug consumed, not quantities.

Trip Report must be factual, no glorifying i.e

9pm - LSD ingested

9.30pm - Begin to feel first effects, quite giggily

10.00pm - I began to have visuals

etc. rather than

I TOOK 10 PILLS LAST NITE BLEEDIN MAD OU OF IT, BEST TIME OF MY LIFE 1111

I do think people should be able to post about positive trips as long as they are written as above

flogen

Faith wrote:

I think it would be good if there were reports of negative experiences, it could act as a deterrant to potential users. I know that if I was considering trying a particular illegal drug, I'd research it first and I'd really like to hear about peoples negative experiences with that drug.

Positive reports should maybe not be allowed, for the reasons you've listed.

The problem there is that if you let experiences be posted, you can't say 'postive/negative only'; allowing negative only would just turn the forum into a 'Don't do drugs' board and would seriously hinder debate; I suppose that when we allow the discussion of experience we have to give the posters the benefit of the doubt that they'll be honest and consistent (discussing the good with the bad), we also have to do our best to treat the people like grown ups and not look at a positive experience as an undeniable encouragement to do drugs, posters should me mature enough to give it more thought than that.
Of course to ensure we actually do have that higher level of poster certain vetting processes (subs etc.) may be required.

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Only mention the drug consumed, not quantities.

Trip Report must be factual, no glorifying i.e

9pm - LSD ingested

9.30pm - Begin to feel first effects, quite giggily

10.00pm - I began to have visuals

etc. rather than

I TOOK 10 PILLS LAST NITE BLEEDIN MAD OU OF IT, BEST TIME OF MY LIFE 1111

I do think people should be able to post about positive trips as long as they are written as above

Obviously the 'I did drugz so I'm deddlahhhhhh' posts would be banned, but who's to decide if something is glorified or over sold? When you're dealing with the likes of hallucinogens especially there is no single effect, and no one can say "this should happen", "this will happen" or "that would never happen".

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

would that be quite boring?

EDIT: this is referring to SpacedOut's last post...

grimloch

Pre moderated threads on top of things perhaps?

Giblet

flogen wrote:

Obviously the 'I did drugz so I'm deddlahhhhhh' posts would be banned, but who's to decide if something is glorified or over sold? When you're dealing with the likes of hallucinogens especially there is no single effect, and no one can say "this should happen", "this will happen" or "that would never happen".

That's not the point of a trip report. It's more "This is what happened this time".

They should be allowed, but that doesn't mean they can't be moderated also.

Giblet

Roundtower2 wrote:

would that be quite boring?

EDIT: this is referring to SpacedOut's last post...

They tend not to be, other people share their experiences or talk about certain aspects that happened on that particular trip. Like "Yeah I got that warm feeling early on too blah blah"

I've seen a few and they tend to be mature and are a good read. All you need to do is stem the "i took this and i was like buzzing dehlly and eh ate loads of food lol munchies you should all try it!" crap and try promote a certain type of detailed posting.

SpAcEd OuT

Roundtower2 wrote:

would that be quite boring?

well obviously what I posted was very basic

heres an example from another forum, obviously anything in this trip report regarding dosage and glorification would not be allowed on the boards.ie forum...


10:55am
2C-E ingested

11:25am
There is a phenethylamine in me, I can tell that much. Very minor first alerts.

11:40am
I guess I'm feeling almost a bit sedated. But it is comfortable. My stomach feels fine. Very slight visual effects... like a "softening" of objects and maybe a little bit of movement, are developing. My heart rate is normal, if not slightly relaxed. I'm going to go lie down and put some music on in anticipation of this chemical developing more fully.

11:58am
The ceiling is starting to crawl a bit. My palms are getting a bit clammy. The change in mindspace is still pretty mild, but I do feel a bit stoned. A body feeling is starting to manifest. It feels good, as if some euphoria might be on the way. My stomach feels okay. I think I'm actually a little hungry but I dare not eat anything at this point. With my eyes closed there is "something" starting to happen, but it's completely undefined at this point.

12:05pm
My palms and armpits are getting a bit sweaty now. And I can feel it quite a bit more in my head than just a few minutes ago. Getting off the computer until the next update.

12:20pm
Well, now I am getting a bit more restless. I've gone through several selections of music, and while they do seem "enhanced", they are also kind of irritating me. I prefer silence at the moment. I lit some incense and it made me sneeze, so I put it out. I'm at a good ++ right now, and it seems like it's still creeping on.
Feels very neutral. I am neither especially enjoying myself nor do I regret taking this substance. The visuals aren't especially unique... probably closest to 2C-D (out of 2C-C, 2C-I, and 2C-D to choose from), but there seems to be more stuff floating in the air. Almost like a thin smoke, especially around light surfaces. My body feels fine, and I feel much more awake now. I don't really know what to do with myself at the moment, so I guess I'll just go lie down on the couch.

12:45pm
I'm pretty sure this is fully developed by now. Lying on the couch was actually quite nice. A nice buzz/body euphoria developed and squirming around with a blanket felt pretty good. Mentally, I'm still feeling pretty clear. But definitely analyzing things more than usual. Like, I almost ate a Maalox because my stomach was churning a little (but far from the point of nausea or discomfort), but then I ended up staring at the Maalox for a few minutes and decided to put it back in the bottle.

It seems like I can direct this "trip" into one of several options:
1. Focus on the body energy and enjoy that.
2. Zone out with the visuals >>> which aren't *that* impressive, but unique
3. Analyze random things that normally wouldn't occupy my interest
4. Focus the energy more into my head and get a more "mental" buzz
The neutrality is starting to give way to a little bit of positivity...

Still very easy on the body, although I am sweaty in the armpits and this chemical has turned from mildly sedating to mildly stimulating.
It goes back and forth between a medium ++ and a light +++. Seems to depend on what I'm doing.

1:10pm
Well, I certainly wouldn't have guessed I'd actually want to spend so much time writing about my 2C-E "trip" during the experience. Yet, for whatever reason, I actually seem to "trip out" more sitting here at the keyboard than I do relaxing on my couch or wandering around. So, I guess I'll do away with time-stamping these entries (on the assumption that I've reached the plateau, which it seems like I have). I'll make a note when it seems like it's coming down.


Oh yeah, I was going to mention, this stuff definitely seems to have entity potential. Like, there are flashes of light and other strange seemingly-autonomous visual phenomena that remind me of some mushroom trips or even my pharmahuasca experience at times. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, with a few more milligrams of this stuff, whatever these things are started to really take shape and form.

CEVs are more pronounced now. But still not vibrant or flashy. And nothing really unique there.

OEVs have become more interesting. Almost like the drug (or my mind) realized I could really care less about squirming carpets and ceilings and has adjusted to grab my attention in other ways. Such as colors changing on surfaces, and a very interesting visual phenomenom that seems to come from the "visual smoke" I mentioned earlier. This "smoke" now seems to be rearranging itself into more defined patterns... well, all of a sudden typing has become a burden, so I'm going to wander around and see what's good.

Interesting fluctuations between + and +++ levels of intensity, only minutes (sometimes seconds) apart! Like, I think I could almost snap myself out of this and sober up if I needed to... but then again, I wouldn't count on it...

Hopefully 2C-E isn't as weird with my digestive system as other 2C-x chems can be. I really need to eat something. I think a banana should be a pretty safe bet.

It's a pretty dreary day out. Cold, rainy, with snow melting away into mud puddles. But I found staring out my open window, listening to the sound of nature and getting some breaths of fresh air.... well, I don't know what I found it. Very interesting.... neutral?.... no, definitely "nice".

I am starting to think, as I suspected before even getting started, that I am somewhat limited by my surroundings. I have a small living space and it's a wet, cold, windy, muddy day outside. Looking out the window I experience feelings of synchrocity with all these elements of nature. I would much rather be outside on a nice day with this particular psychedelic.

Music was actually irritating me before.... but I just put on the track "To Sheila" by the Smashing Pumpkins. Damn, that was a good whim! This really sounds quite amazing.

I think this drug is making me VERY partial to slower, more melodic and harmonic types of music. I think as long as I choose which music I listen to with this discretion in mind,... well, it sounds awesome! Perhaps if you don't like Billy Corgan's voice, you might not want to repeat this experiment for yourself.

Music sounds very rich... extra-dimensional, even. Well, I am sitting in the middle of a surround sound setup. But it sounds better, for sure

And a definite wave of euphoria just washed over me... I think I'll listen to this whole album.

Green tea is a good beverage

Feelings of emphathy? Strange, I was feeling decidedly anti-social just a couple hours ago. This chemical seems to have a lot of sides. Gives me good perspective to think about all kinds of things. I don’t feel like going much into my personal life, but I will say that even more difficult / emotional topics aren’t bothering me in the slightest.

It’s now 2:35pm. Time seems to be passing pretty slowly.

The guitar solo in “For Martha” was pretty damn cool!

My mindspace is now somewhat similar to a low dose of LSD… but, more relaxed. But the feelings of openness and synchrocity are there. It is now 3:00pm and I believe I’m starting to come off the peak. But it’s hard to tell because this drug has been hitting me in waves since it started working.

I am impressed at how good my body feels. Any tension is *very* slight, certainly less than very clean LSD or even 2C-C can be. My heart rate is a little elevated, but not to the point where I even notice unless I check. I have a feeling my stomach would be upset if I ate a bunch of greasy food. But my stomach would rather take this over 2C-I any day.

Might as well mention that normally I’d have hit the ganja pipe a couple times by now, but I’m cutting back on my ganja consumption. Besides, I don’t think it would mix that well with the peaceful mindstate of this trip. Why mess with a good thing?

I should also note that any feelings of mental or physical euphoria during this trip were not consistent, but came in waves and tended to be fleeting. It’s strange how this pleasant “buzz” works its way through my body, and then to my mind (right now it seems focused in my third eye), but I certainly have no complaints about it.

4:30pm
Same as I was a couple hours ago. Been chatting online a lot and not paying much attention to the trip, really. I think I'm going to watch some CNN.

4:50pm
Any positive feelings from this trip are pretty much gone. I am now at a +/++, back and forth. I wouldn't mind if it were over now. At this point the residual tension (though minor) and visuals are more of a burden than anything. I have a feeling I'll have several more hours of light psychedelic effects though.

At this point it's not much different from the comedown of 2C-I.

I'm surprised the "positive" part of this trip seemed to take place during only a few hours, though it felt like longer. Tension and heart-rate seem to be increasing slightly as the good psychedelic effects are wearing off.

The buzz still feels nice, especially centered in my third-eye. But I'm not in a very good mood. I find this kind of lingering psychedelic effects to be kind of a nuisance, more than anything. I'd rather be sober... but it's not really a big deal.

5:45pm
Drugs effects are starting to wear off. I don't think there will be much, if anything, to integrate from this experience. It was mostly nice, and mostly interesting

flogen

Giblet wrote:

That's not the point of a trip report. It's more "This is what happened this time".

They should be allowed, but that doesn't mean they can't be moderated also.

I was just responding to Spaced Out's idea that reports should not be glorified; I was saying where do you draw the line on what is glorified and what is actually what really happened to that person?
Of course moderation can still happen, I'm just saying that if you're going to allow people to give their experiences you have to be prepared for some positive ones (and even some amazingly positive ones) along with the negatives.

BuffyBot

Seems almost as bad as listening to people tell you their dreams..

SpAcEd OuT

BuffyBot wrote:

Seems almost as bad as listening to people tell you their dreams..

Then don't come in, thought that would be simple enough, obviously not for some.

nesf

I don't see what trip reports would add to the forum really beyond the extremes of scaremongering and/or glorification. They are available elsewhere online if people want to read them.

What do they bring to a forum beyond providing incentives to readers to either try or avoid certain types of illegal drugs? Should the forum be a place where people could potentially come to to find suggestions for their next high?

Basq

Actually.. while we're on the topic (and trying to avoid thread-spoiling this):

Any chance of getting a decision on a 'Prison Break' forum? The show is starting on RTE on Tuesday week.

With the request thread currently at over 2,300 views and 115 replies with very few nays, surely this shows there's a want for it.

SpAcEd OuT

nesf wrote:

I don't see what trip reports would add to the forum really beyond the extremes of scaremongering and/or glorification. They are available elsewhere online if people want to read them.

What do they bring to a forum beyond providing incentives to readers to either try or avoid certain types of illegal drugs? Should the forum be a place where people could potentially come to to find suggestions for their next high?

the forum will not just be dedicated to trip reports read my post on the previous page, thanks