Irish = Joke

leeroybrown

melekalikimaka wrote:

how can a foreign language be your native language?

To my knowlegde the two most common definitions of 'native language' are 'the language a person acquires in very early childhood' and 'the primary language of a persons community'. If I came from a Gaeltacht area I would probably be bi-lingual and would claim Irish as a native language. I'll also add that you can have a strong interest in Ireland's heritage without wanting to speak Irish.

To get this back on topic a little. My belief with respect to Irish is that children should definitely learn it in primary school where proper tuition can foster an interest. It should be a mandatory Junior Cert subject and should be primarily taught to give people the ability to speak it. At leaving cert level it should be optional.

I think that if this were implemented properly you would get the best of both worlds with a more interested student base getting a more meaningful education.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Conor h wrote:

Anybody who thinks learning their native language shouldn't be cumpolsory needs to seriously consider what they're saying!

Explain, please why this is so?

Also, can I assume you favour the status quo then?

BMH

leeroybrown wrote:

To my knowlegde the two most common definitions of 'native language' are 'the language a person acquires in very early childhood' and 'the primary language of a persons community'. If I came from a Gaeltacht area I would probably be bi-lingual and would claim Irish as a native language.

To get this back on topic a little. My belief with respect to Irish is that children should definitely learn it in primary school where proper tuition can foster an interest. It should be a mandatory Junior Cert subject and should be primarily taught to give people the ability to speak it. At leaving cert level it should be optional.

I think that if this were implemented properly you would get the best of both worlds with a more interested student base getting a more meaningful education.

You're still a native of Ireland.

But yes, the exam needs to be fixed. I'm doing the JC yet I went in today knowing the words for alliteration and metaphors and even used them, though most likely for the last time. I posted this in the thread about whether Irish should be dropped or not in the JC forums, but I might as well say it again:
The exam needs to become more focused on Aural and Oral exams, with unseen fiction, unseen poetry and a letter/unguessable essay. Let the exam test your knowledge of the language, not your knowledge of buzzwords.

leeroybrown

BMH wrote:

Read the Constitution.

There is a considerable difference between a 'native' language and a legally defined national languge.

(I'll also add that I did my LC years ago and am only paricipating in the debate out of interest not because I'm annoyed at having to sit an extra exam. I was actually quite good at Irish did rather well in it.)

melekalikimaka

leeroybrown wrote:

There is a considerable difference between a 'native' language and a legally defined national languge.

depends on how much respect you have for it

BMH

Surely you feel you should learn the legally defined national language then?

melekalikimaka

BMH wrote:

Surely you feel you should learn the legally defined national language then?

I think they genuinely don't care

Heinrich

Conor h wrote:

Anybody who thinks learning their native language shouldn't be cumpolsory needs to seriously consider what they're saying!

Why don't you post your comments in your native language so we can all learn.


Maybe your knowledge only goes as far as reciting passages from Peig.

leeroybrown

BMH wrote:

Surely you feel you should learn the legally defined national language then?

Yes, but I think it can be effectively taught to Junior Cert level and become optional thereafter.

Feral Mutant

The irish we learn for the leaving is irrelevant. Today I went into the exam with about two and a half A4 pages of irish detailing it's history learnt off by heart but when I was writing freestyle on another question I had to take a minute to remember the word for food. Although they found it funny, no-one in my class was surprised that stuff like this happens.

BMH

Just out of curiosity, why did everyone walk out? Was the exam hard or was it a nationwide protest?

Faerie

BMH wrote:

Just out of curiosity, why did everyone walk out? Was the exam hard or was it a nationwide protest?

I don't think it was a protest or anything! They probably just answered everything they could. Most ordinary level people left after an hour in my exam centre. There's only 6 doing higher and we all stayed in until the very end.

OctavarIan

BMH wrote:

Read the Constitution.

Doesn't the Constitution also say that women are to be kept at home and not allowed jobs? I dunno exactly, but there's a load of bull**** in the Constitution that hasn't been changed.

BMH wrote:

Proud of turning your nose up on the culture that hundreds of thousands fought and died for?

That was back in the day. Nowadays modern culture has all but taken over the old languages/customs, imo. If other countries want a taste of Irish culture, head into Templebar for a night out.


And also I think the current Irish course is a joke, and it should be made optional. We could be learning something useful instead of a language that's well past it. I don't plan on visiting an island off the west coast, therefore I won't need to use Irish again, yet I'm being forced to learn it for important exams. Nonscensical? (sp?)

layke

Just to note, some colleges do not require Irish as a required subject for entry.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BMH wrote:

Surely you feel you should learn the legally defined national language then?

Nope.

BMH

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Nope.

And what would you be happy to learn then?
Please, lay out seven useful subjects, and don't say history so I can be a historian and geography so I can teach geography as they both clash, you'll only use one or the other.

whassupp2

layke wrote:

Just to note, some colleges do not require Irish as a required subject for entry.

Correct but its still compulsory is schools.

What need to happen is this:

1) Colleges cop themselves on and change matriculation requirements so that the requirements needed will be of use in each specific course. Example- someone who studies English in 3rd level should not need irish to get into that course.

2) Irish is made compulsory in schools to Junior Cert and optional for Leaving cert.

3) Guidance councellors make it clear to students the consequences of dropping irish (shouldnt be many because it wont be needed hopefully for most college courses).

4) A revised syllabus is introduced in both JC and LC to make language more appealing in a way that it concentrates mainly on Creative Writing and students ability to use the language correctly. Rote learning is done away with (thats what thousands of LC students did preparing for todays paper).

5) The new syllabus will entice people to carry it to LC because they can express themselves better and enjoy the language.

5) Standards are maintained. I think the standard of the irish papers is fine. its just the materiasl in it (especially paper 2)

6) The same happen for English and Maths and languages

Kenny_D

Just wanted to say that I chose to learn French along side Irish in my leaving cert two years ago. After learning french for 5 years I could speak far better french than I could Irish which I had been learning for 11 years. The reason is I had an interest in the French as I like the language. Subjects are far easier to learn well when you have a genuine interest in that subject. It drives you to learn. I think irish should not be mandatory. If people want to learn Irish then they can still have it as an option but I really think they should make Irish an optional subject. Its not widely used, people have less interest in learning the language and most people, who want to learn a new language, want to learn a language which they may use in future or a more widely spoken language

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Proud of turning your nose up on the culture that hundreds of thousands fought and died for? Proud of dismissing the one thing that makes Ireland unique? Proud of acting like a 12 year old rebelling because you have to do something you don't want to?

Your whole life will be full of being told to do things, and having to do them, get used to it.

Did I ask them to? Did they come along to me and say, "I'm going to die for your culture and so you can be forced to learn a langauge you don't like?" **** them. If they died so that my whole life could full of being told to do things and having to do them (which incidently, it's not and I most certainly don't) then they wasted their lives.

BMH wrote:

And what would you be happy to learn then?
Please, lay out seven useful subjects, and don't say history so I can be a historian and geography so I can teach geography as they both clash, you'll only use one or the other.

French. Learnt it in my early twenties and loved. A far more artisitic language. That or art.

GrumPy

I think someone should set up a poll regarding if irish should be optional after sitting the junior, cause this thread just turned into a bitching match between people who hate england, and are trying to put forward the idea irish is important, against people who believe you should have a choice weather Irish is important to you.

poll ftw!!1 And if year, after year more and more students up and leave after 30mins on paper2, the department for education will have to revise the paper. Either way, eventually we will be seeing an entirely different LC Irish paper, or an optional choice in regards to if people want or even need to sit it for college etc..

id consider my self very republican but i dont care about the language that much, that mite be a tad hypocritical but thats just the way it is for me

BMH

Irish GrumPy wrote:

I think someone should set up a poll regarding if irish should be optional after sitting the junior, cause this thread just turned into a bitching match between people who hate england, and are trying to put forward the idea irish is important, against people who believe you should have a choice weather Irish is important to you.

poll ftw!!1 And if year, after year more and more students up and leave after 30mins on paper2, the department for education will have to revise the paper. Either way, eventually we will be seeing an entirely different LC Irish paper, or an optional choice in regards to if people want or even need to sit it for college etc..

There's a poll in the JC forum. Hopefully they'll redo it before I've to sit it.:rolleyes:

BMH

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

French. Learnt it in my early twenties and loved. A far more artisitic language. That or art.

That's 2.

Faerie

BMH wrote:

That's 2.

Why are you being so patronising? Maybe some people genuinely aren't interested in Irish.

Glazun

<_< I just realised I could actually have been exempt from the bloody Irish exam. I'm not an irish citizen, lived here all my live (3months old) but they wont review my application for naturalisation until 2008.. given that this is ireland, I'm thinking I should be irish sometime in 2015. But meh, did honours Irish.. I learn Irish and English in national school. I love knowing irish... Its so useful, when you go into some remote pub, they ask you where your from, you say some townland, they say you have an accent, you say your from swiss, they start trading racist comments in irish.

roberta c

i left after an hour, just because i was finished the paper!


but just one thing about the smelly patriots who make us do irish....
DO THEY SPEAK FLUENT IRISH?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



i doubt they do.... they like the idea of having a lovely romantic ireland, with our ceol agus craic, but enforcing their dreams on us wont fecking work! 98.5% of my year now hate irish because they were forced to do it to get a place in collage.... ah romantic irelands dead and gone, its with bertie in the dail!

BMH

Faerie wrote:

Why are you being so patronising? Maybe some people genuinely aren't interested in Irish.

I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm just talking about how people are calling it useless. Most other subjects are too and even if they're not forced on you, you're forced to take 7 subjects, the chances are, you'll never use most of them outside of school grounds.
Also, I'm agreeing that the ciricullum(sp?) is stupid, I was just posting my opinion on the "Irish sucks" comments, and I'm genuinely sorry if it came off as a stuck up little prick.

DemonOfTheFall

The thing about those other subjects, BMH, is that people generally CHOOSE to do them.

I did Irish leaving cert honours today, could have got an A if I had even considered studying. However, the course reeks of crap and I had a useless teacher, so I now hate it.

I don't see why I should have to spend thousands of hours of valuable class time learning a dead language which is kept on life support by "Up the RA" types.

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

i never studied a day of irish in my life until this morning i looked over the stuff for 30 mins before i went in and i wrote 5 pages in an hour and pretty sure i got an A . not that hard guys... i do live in a gealtacht region but still... irish ordinary paper 2 btw

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BMH wrote:

I'm not trying to be patronising, I'm just talking about how people are calling it useless. Most other subjects are too and even if they're not forced on you, you're forced to take 7 subjects, the chances are, you'll never use most of them outside of school grounds.
Also, I'm agreeing that the ciricullum(sp?) is stupid, I was just posting my opinion on the "Irish sucks" comments, and I'm genuinely sorry if it came off as a stuck up little prick.

Fair enough... Never felt you were patronising, anyway. I'd also like to clarify that I don't think Irish is useless, it's just useless to me. I have my reasons, outlined previously, but I do think it's condesending to tell me that I'm wrong to rebel against the impositon of a culture and language upon me, and then to bring up the idea of Irish patriotism which, in itself, was an act of rebellion against the imposition of the English langage and culture. If we do not have the freedom to protest or to rebel, then we do not have freedom full stop.