The Thunderdome - Justifiable?

_Kaiser_

Having just read the last few pages in the CSG thread in the Thunderdome, I'd like to repost a point I made here to get the opinions of those who are responsible for and own this site, as well as fellow users.

The thread in question is now at 25+ pages and contains post after post of personal attacks and bullying of this one particular user, apparently based solely on her posts in other threads.

Now what I'd like to ask is this...

How can the administrators and owners of this site allow such a forum to exist on an increasingly commercial and popular website which anyone - of any age - can access? (I note that the normal swear-word/content filtering appears to be disabled which only highlights the problem).

The apparent justification that "anything goes" isn't good enough in my opinion and is in fact hypocritical when one considers that if some of those aforementioned posts were made in other forums, the users in question would have be banned ages ago (and probably for a lot less).

I'm sure someone new to the site, or a parent, teacher, reporter etc won't immediately see or care that someone decided that this behaviour "is ok" in this one forum. Rather they'll see threads upon threads of personal abuse and spam and the online equivalent of playground bullying - something increasingly in the news with mobile phone and bebo bullying on the rise.

By allowing this forum to exist I would suggest that Boards.ie's owners and administrators are (I'm sure unintentionally) condoning such behaviour and damaging the overall image and reputation of the site/business by allowing it to continue.

Or is it just me?

Baggly

well, imo, it is tucked away and hidden from general view, and posts there dont come up on the new posts thingy, and finally, there is the arguement that it would just happen elsewhere.

i wonder why you didnt notice the people defending the person you spoke of.

it is the nature of human interaction and groupings that people will pick on other people. the answer isnt to deny them that, but to teach them its wrong through experiential learning, imo

Time Magazine

I see your point, but for me at least the Thunderdome has to exist for all the sh*te. Boards wasn't set up for kids and all that, it was a gamers' forum. Maybe the thread is a little over the top, I dunno, but if it was maybe it should be locked as opposed to the TD being shut.

_Kaiser_

petermonaghan wrote:

well, imo, it is tucked away and hidden from general view, and posts there dont come up on the new posts thingy, and finally, there is the arguement that it would just happen elsewhere.

i wonder why you didnt notice the people defending the person you spoke of.

it is the nature of human interaction and groupings that people will pick on other people. the answer isnt to deny them that, but to teach them its wrong through experiential learning, imo

I see the point you're making but I'd argue that it's not a classroom, it's a commercial website which (rightly) frowns upon such behaviour on all other forums here.

Also, I acknowledge that many posters have defended CSG (myself included), but my point is that these back and forth attacks shouldn't be happening in the first place. In my opinion, the thread should be locked and action taken against some of the posters in line with general policy on the other forums regarding personal insults, spam and general muppetry.

_Kaiser_

Angry Banana wrote:

I see your point, but for me at least the Thunderdome has to exist for all the sh*te. Boards wasn't set up for kids and all that, it was a gamers' forum. Maybe the thread is a little over the top, I dunno, but if it was maybe it should be locked as opposed to the TD being shut.

I agree with you that originally Boards was very different from what it is now (I'm here a while myself), but I'd counter that it is the responsibility of the admins/mods and owners to adapt to the growing and diverse population and forums which do now exist today and modify the rules accordingly (which DOES happen in other sections of the site with the updating of charters etc).

Baggly

Kaiser2000 wrote:

but my point is that these back and forth attacks shouldn't be happening in the first place.

i dont agree with that point, as i believe there is a demand for exactly this type of forum, as can be seen by the many pages of 'input' from people.

i think this forum should maybe be restricted, but not removed. better have it here where we can keep an eye on it than on some rogue board with absolutely no rules.

so, in summary:p , its there because there is a demand for it, and because it represents such a small proportion of the overall good wholesome fun that is boards

_Kaiser_

petermonaghan wrote:

i think this forum should maybe be restricted, but not removed. better have it here where we can keep an eye on it than on some rogue board with absolutely no rules.

Actually I think if this was to occur and the forum moderated as is any other (albeit perhaps with a bit more leeway given the idea behind it) that this would address the concerns I raised whilst allowing people to "vent" (within reason) and also protecting Boards as an entity from things getting too out of hand - as is the case (in my opinion) with the CSG thread now.

Baggly

protected from what may i ask

_Kaiser_

petermonaghan wrote:

protected from what may i ask

Well personally, I love this site and I think the benefits that the increased userbase/awareness of the site, new forums, and of course increased revenue bring are great for everyone involved with Boards.ie - from owners to the general population.

As a result I'd hate to see all the positive things about the site and it's image/reputation damaged by a few rogue posters.

Baggly

firstly, i dont think its a few rogue posters

secondly, i think that there is no bad publicity

thirdly, i dont know what type of person it would scare off. parents stopping their child posting - maybe they shouldnt be on anyway etc

BuffyBot

Or is it just me?

It might just be you.

The Thunderdrome posts have "notify" buttons on them just like any other forum. If you think something is really bad, report it and let the admins decide.

Lump

I assume that posts made there don't increase the posters post count? Anyway, I agree that it's a good Idea having it, if we didn't that rubbish would just appear in After hours no doubt.

John

Dirk Gently

Just ban Kiera for her personal crusade to "educate" CSG.
Thunderdome takes a life of its own and is mostly not taken seriously by anyone who posts there or is insulted there. It is seen as a bit of craic and a piss take but in this case however I think a line has been crossed with the amount of personal abuse CSG received, which was unwarranted. I think CSG comes out of this smelling of roses. I think it’s a credit to CSG that she remained as dignified as she did on the thread. Definitely earned my respect and my opinion of that thing Kiera went way down with her behavior.

The problem CSG has is that other boards members aren't as open and comfortable about themselves as she is. More their problem than hers but she does get a lot of stick from the bitter jealous brigade.

Leave Thunderdome as it is but possibly close the thread in question as it’s unfair on CSG. I would be in favour of harsh measures taken against Kiera for her constant attempts at character assignation on CSG, attempts which back fired imo with me for one becoming a big fan of CSG for the way in which she handled the situation.

Hobart

Couple of points.

The swear filter is site wide. AFAIK the Thunderdome is not an exception to this rule. There are ways around by using size tags etc. It's not really that hard. I find **** normally gets the message across.

The internet is huge. It's varied and it contains a diversity of things. I doubt the Thunderdome would rate high of the list of things not to look at on the internet, from a parent, teacher POV.

Buffybot makes a valid point, if you find any post offensive, report it.

If you don't like a forum, don't go into it. It does not stop you having an opinion on it, but your ultimate sanction is available to you.

Hobart

clown bag wrote:

Just ban Kiera for her personal crusade to "educate" CSG.
Thunderdome takes a life of its own and is mostly not taken seriously by anyone who posts there or is insulted there. It is seen as a bit of craic and a piss take but in this case however I think a line has been crossed with the amount of personal abuse CSG received, which was unwarranted. I think CSG comes out of this smelling of roses. I think it’s a credit to CSG that she remained as dignified as she did on the thread. Definitely earned my respect and my opinion of that thing Kiera went way down with her behavior.

The problem CSG has is that other boards members aren't as open and comfortable about themselves as she is. More their problem than hers but she does get a lot of stick from the bitter jealous brigade.

Leave Thunderdome as it is but possibly close the thread in question as it’s unfair on CSG. I would be in favour of harsh measures taken against Kiera for her constant attempts at character assignation on CSG, attempts which back fired imo with me for one becoming a big fan of CSG for the way in which she handled the situation.

I actually agree and disagree with some of your points. I think PSI made a very valid point when he accused some users of bullying anotyher. His wit actually made one or two users appear very foolish.

I also agree with your points wrt CSG. She has come out of it very well, even though the whole point of the thread seemed to be to attack her.

I don't agree with closing it tbh. I find some threads make no sense, but I don't actually see that as a reason for closing them.

Dirk Gently

I think the reason for closing this particular thread might be out of respect for CSG as no matter how well she takes it (no pun intended) some of that abuse has to affect her. I for one think her attitude is refreshing and wouldn't like the thread to affect her in a negative way.

If the CSG thread is not closed hopefully it can just move on to a more general slagging match between other users. Its one thing slagging a user name who only exists on the internet, its another thing to bring real life into it and tell someone how to run their life.

anyway, definetly think the call to get rid of the thunderdome is too much. I read through it sometimes just for a laugh with most users posting there just saying stupid funny stuff and obviously not taking it too seriously.

Baggly

in fairness tho, for the last few pages its been a slagging match between hobbart, me you, psi, sjones and a few others. not even sure if csg is mentioned much

muckwarrior

DeVore

Just noticed that the charter isnt there. There ARE rules for The Thunderdome they are just a bit different to the usual ones for civility. Illegal (ie libelous) comments are still not allowed but remember that Gross Abuse is not actionable.

Every house has a sewerage pipe.

DeV.

TerrorFirmer

everyone gets their turn in the thunderdome....

CuLT

HavoK wrote:

everyone gets their turn in the thunderdome....

We don't need another hero!

TerrorFirmer

The Muppet

DeVore wrote:

Illegal (ie libelous) comments are still not allowed but remember that Gross Abuse is not actionable.


DeV.

Does that excuse * the abuse that this user has put up with in the thread in question? I read that thread about a month ago and I was surprised that it was let go as far as it was then,

It can take very little to nudge some people over the edge and cause them physcological damage. The user in question appears to have taken much of the abuse in her stride, but appearances can be deceptive. I would say she has to be affected by some of the comments.

The comments in the thread may not be actionable but IMO there is the potential for some bad publicity for this site from that thread if the target is not as solid as she portrays herself.

The thunderdome is a good idea and is somewhere to let off steam but the thread in question oversteps the mark IMO.

(*I,m not suggesting you are excusing it)

amp

The Muppet wrote:

Does that excuse * the abuse that this user has put up with in the thread in question? I read that thread about a month ago and I was surprised that it was let go as far as it was then,

It can take very little to nudge some people over the edge and cause them physcological damage. The user in question appears to have taken much of the abuse in her stride, but appearances can be deceptive. I would say she has to be affected by some of the comments.

Well it's hard not to read a forum when there's a gun to your head. Oh wait! There was no gun!

The comments in the thread may not be actionable but IMO there is the potential for some bad publicity for this site from that thread if the target is not as solid as she portrays herself.

And boards requires good publicity for what? It's stockmarket price?

If you can't stand the heat then get the hell out of the Thunderdome. Nobody forces anybody to read it. Nobody forces anybody to reply. If you decide to post there then you are fair game.

The Muppet

amp wrote:

Well it's hard not to read a forum when there's a gun to your head. Oh wait! There was no gun!.

Wheter I read the thread or not is irrelevant. The thread would still be there and all the nastiness towads on particular member of this community would still be there.. I said I don't have a problem with the thunderdome but that thread has no place in this community IMO.

amp wrote:

And boards requires good publicity for what? It's stockmarket price?!.

I never mentioned Good Publicity. I would be pretty sure taht the owner's of this site not want the negative publicity that could be generated if something terrible happen because of bullying and abuse on that thread.

amp wrote:

If you can't stand the heat then get the hell out of the Thunderdome. Nobody forces anybody to read it. Nobody forces anybody to reply. If you decide to post there then you are fair game.

See above. AFAIK the user that is/was teh main focus of the abuse did not opt into that thread. If it were my child I would be very pissed about what wasallowed happen in that thread. I suggest most parents would fell the same.

As I said I dont have a problem with the existance of teh thunderdome but to allow a teenager take the personal abuse that was dished out in that thread is dangerous .

I have voiced my opinion as the Op raised the issue and expressed similar opinions.

Baggly

The Muppet wrote:

The thread would still be there and all the nastiness towads on particular member of this community would still be there.

well actually it began as a CSG vs keira thread, and since keira and CSG have both stopped frequently posting in it, its degenerated into hobbert and sjones and amp vs everyone else regarding anything.

this should be proff enough that the thunderdomes function is to let off steam and argue for the sake of it.

people cant shoot you if you dont give them ammo

amp

The Muppet wrote:

Wheter I read the thread or not is irrelevant. The thread would still be there and all the nastiness towads on particular member of this community would still be there.. I said I don't have a problem with the thunderdome but that thread has no place in this community IMO.

Which community? The Feedback community or the Thunderdome community? Why has it no place in whatever community you're talking about?

I never mentioned Good Publicity. I would be pretty sure taht the owner's of this site not want the negative publicity that could be generated if something terrible happen because of bullying and abuse on that thread.

Why not have negative publicy? Do you think that will stop people coming to boards because one board out of god knows how many there are now, some nasty things were said? And if you think that what is being said there qualifies as bullying then you really need to understand what bullying is.

See above. AFAIK the user that is/was teh main focus of the abuse did not opt into that thread. If it were my child I would be very pissed about what wasallowed happen in that thread. I suggest most parents would fell the same.

If it was my child I'd laugh and give them some good lines to respond with. If that didn't work I'd come on myself and rip somebody a new asshole. And of all the terrible things that people can easily view on the internet do you really think the thunderdome with it's textual broadsides should be censored and threads locked?

As I said I dont have a problem with the existance of teh thunderdome but to allow a teenager take the personal abuse that was dished out in that thread is dangerous .

The teenager in question DOES NOT HAVE TO READ THE ABUSE. It's not like a school were the teenager has no choice but to attend. Would you let your teenager go to Temple Bar on a Friday night? NO! Why? Because it's not safe for them. Not that I'm suggesting getting beaten up by some drunken idiots compares at all to the ABSOLUTE HORROR OF NASTY THINGS BEING SAID!

I have voiced my opinion as the Op raised the issue and expressed similar opinions.

Well in my opinion your both entirely wrong. The only changes that should be made would be a charter for the thunderdome with a large notice warning people in advance.

Baggly

mountain. molehill

_Kaiser_

amp wrote:

And boards requires good publicity for what? It's stockmarket price?

No, but what about it's sponsors/advertisers? Or the various journalists and (for example telecoms and computer) industry representatives that frequent this site and use it to liaise with customers/the public and other industry groups (I'm thinking Ireland Offline, Komplett etc).

Boards is a great resouce to a lot of people besides the average joe in the street and by allowing things to get as carried away as they have in the Thunderdome, it can only have a negative effect on the site's image (particularly to those who may stumble across this particular forum and are unaware of the philosophy behind it).

I do agree with you though that it needs a (strictly enforced) charter and maybe some additional boundaries need to be set.

(Edited for clarity)

WhiteWashMan

why dont you write up a charter, and we'll see how it reads?

amp

Kaiser2000 wrote:

No, but what about it's sponsors/advertisers? Or the various journalists and (for example telecoms and computer) industry representatives that frequent this site and use it to liaise with customers/the public and other industry groups (I'm thinking Ireland Offline, Komplett etc).

In your fantasy world a journalist reads the thread in the Thunderdome and writes a massive headline entitled "TEENAGER INSULTED ON INTERNET FORUM CREATED FOR INSULTING PEOPLE!!". The resulting scandal causes corporate entities to suddenly decide that advertising on boards will associate them with TERRORISM and decide to advertise on another large Irish bulletin board. Thanks to the lack of funding, boards dies.

Meanwhile, in reality, if some mad journalist decided that there was a story in somebody getting insulted on the internet, the resulting publicity would only attract MORE people onto boards. Our corporate partners and advertisers would get more hits.

Boards is a great resouce to a lot of people besides the average joe in the street and by allowing things to get as carried away as they have in the Thunderdome, it can only have a negative effect on the site's image (particularly to those who may stumble across this particular forum and are unaware of the philosophy behind it).

Ah, I see, we should bow to the lowest common denominator. The stupid should dictate policy on boards.

I do agree with you though that it needs a (strictly enforced) charter and maybe some additional boundaries need to be set.

(Edited for clarity)

Here's my proposed charter:

---

THE THUNDERDOME CHARTER V1.0

NORMAL PEOPLE:
1. If you can't stand the heat get out of The Thunderdome.

MORONS:
1. IF YOU POST, PEOPLE SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT YOU.

---