England v Paraguay - 2pm KO

eirebhoy

England 5/1
Italy (18 games unbeaten) 11/1

I suppose, if the English will back them at that price it's all that matters.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

He's a superb pundit.

He's a better pundit than manager anyway.

Squaddy

who won?

Lemlin

Squaddy wrote:

who won?

You serious? England 1-0. OG by Gamarra.

Squaddy

Lemlin wrote:

You serious? England 1-0. OG by Gamarra.

Yeah, thanks. I was too lazy to check myself..

Running Bing

adox wrote:

Were the BBC pundits watching a different game? England were very poor in both halves.I cant believe the talent in the starting line up and they put in a performance like that.

The centre of midfield is a huge problem for England even at this stage.Lampard and Gerrard are just too similar and both want to get forward, as is their natural game, but they are being held back by having to compensate their game for each other.Gerrard was fairly annonymous through no real fault of his own.
I`d have Lampard out of the team,for the sake of the team,maybe put Carrick in midfield which would release Gerrard to play his natural game and be more of an influence.
Owen still doesnt look match fit,either does Ashley Cole.Beckham and Neville gave the ball away constantly in the second half.

As for Sven,well he showed again how clueless he is with his substitutions.

And finally to keep with the negativity,that was the worst match of the three so far both in terms of entertainment and quality.

It was the heat:rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

As for Wright, that muppet lost all credibility when he condoned that dive by Gerrard to get England a penalty.

Well he would condone it he is a big bad gangsta! Bruv! seriously bbc commentary is absolutely crap. RTE have got it spot on though. Its the honesty of the pundits. If they were down the pub you get the feeling theyd be saying the exact same thing. I thought brady was gonna explode when Sven was asked the question about rythym:) And then they top it off with apres match! class.

Ps. those budweiser ads with the yanks are pretty funny too:D

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Davei141

Wrong thread.....

eirebhoy

Tackles commited today:
Gerrard - 5
Beckham - 4
Cole - 4
Lampard - 2

Lampard should be getting stuck into players if he's gonna play CM.

DMC

Babybing wrote:

It was the heat:rolleyes:

I would agree that the heat must be a factor. Its no better reason for them winning in 1966, on home turf. You can look back at all of the most recent major tournaments over 10 years, and would have to say fatigue and heat were big factors in them going out.

Babybing wrote:

Well he would condone it he is a big bad gangsta! Bruv! seriously bbc commentary is absolutely crap. RTE have got it spot on though. Its the honesty of the pundits. If they were down the pub you get the feeling theyd be saying the exact same thing. I thought brady was gonna explode when Sven was asked the question about rythym:) And then they top it off with apres match! class.

Its a sorry, sorry day when the BBC get it sooo wrong. They were the last of the standard bearers for broadcasting football on British TV, and call a spade a spade. They have fallen into the disease of commercial TV when they can't see fault, with anything the English players or coaches do. This is the art of losing its editorial independence, because they are too afraid to say boo, if they risk losing the rights to the game.

Having former footballers present/commentate is part of the problem. Some set high standards, but Lineker will never ask an awkward question, Hansen is in need of Des Lynam, and Wright and Shearer have no credability.

But it is also a reflection of the blinkered English media too.
Since Barry Davies left soccer, the last objective commentator on BBC tv went.

I wonder how it sounded on BBC Radio 5 Live, with Mike Ingham and Alan Green, cos if it was a shyte game, Alan Green will call it shyte.

Souness, after inital doubts at RTÉ signing him for the tournament, must be enjoying the freedom they give him. Very good.

Viva Dunphy, Billo, Liam, Souness et al, and remember folks, it might not always be like this. If it happens over there.....

mike65

I'd love to have fivelive on NTL so I could listen to Greeny et al.

Mike.

MisterAnarchy

DMC wrote:

Viva Dunphy, Billo, Liam, Souness et al, and remember folks, it might not always be like this. If it happens over there.....

I hope Setanta dont try and get their grubby paws on the next World Cup.

Lemlin

You say this:

eirebhoy wrote:

I really don't want this to go into another bashing Lampard debate but you have to ask what Lampard brought to todays match other than about 5 shots on goal? Carrick would do so much to changing this England team by taking doing the passing basics, tracking back and letting Gerrard do what he does best. Both Gerrard and Lampard are being played out of position to accomidate one another.

Then post this:

eirebhoy wrote:

Tackles commited today:
Gerrard - 5
Beckham - 4
Cole - 4
Lampard - 2

Lampard should be getting stuck into players if he's gonna play CM.

Small bit of inconsistency there mate.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Small bit of inconsistency there mate.

I don't see how. England's central midfield is the reason they have no chance of winning the world cup and I'm pointing out the reason I think why. Lampard doesn't do enough off the ball to be playing in central midfield.

I'm not in the mood for any type of debate as Sweden have ruined my night.

MisterAnarchy

eirebhoy wrote:

I don't see how. England's central midfield is the reason they have no chance of winning the world cup and I'm pointing out the reason I think why. Lampard doesn't do enough off the ball to be playing in central midfield.

I'm not in the mood for any type of debate as Sweden have ruined my night.

England have no chance of winning the world Cup because they dont have a good enough team.
Their players are overhyped and used to playing in a league where holding onto the ball isnt a priority.
They cant maintain possession at international level even against very average teams.
They will be suffocated against better opposition.

nlgbbbblth

Did anyone watch this in a pub?

If so, was Souness booed?

el rabitos

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Did anyone watch this in a pub?

If so, was Souness booed?

...should he be?

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

I don't see how. England's central midfield is the reason they have no chance of winning the world cup and I'm pointing out the reason I think why. Lampard doesn't do enough off the ball to be playing in central midfield.

I'm not in the mood for any type of debate as Sweden have ruined my night.

Grand so but I find it hard to see how someone can rate Graham Kavanagh so highly and then criticise Lampard so much.

Have you ever seen Lampard play at a match you've been at? A few friends of mine have and they reckon he does an unbelievable amount of work off the ball that isn't picked up on the cameras.

One is a United supporter but goes to some Chelsea games because his girlfriend's family have a family ticket. He swears by the amount of off-the-ball work Lampard does.

nlgbbbblth

el rabitos wrote:

...should he be?

I don't think he should be.
But others would have a different opinion seeing as he did play for and manage Rangers.

eirebhoy

Lemlin wrote:

Grand so but I find it hard to see how someone can rate Graham Kavanagh so highly and then criticise Lampard so much.

It's all relative.

I think it was you that won the fantasy football comp so I can understand why you like Lampard.

Lemlin

eirebhoy wrote:

It's all relative.

I think it was you that won the fantasy football comp so I can understand why you like Lampard.

I rated him years before that Anyway, I got rid of him at Christmas for Gerrard.

Gerrard is a better player but I still think Lampard is a world class player and one capable of controlling games, scoring plenty of goals and displaying great leadership.

Dr. Dre

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Did anyone watch this in a pub?

If so, was Souness booed?

No way.
And that 'dog and duck' coment was only superb!

ronbyrne2005

all the english players and media say the heat was a factor but it was the same for paraguay.

county

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

all the english players and media say the heat was a factor but it was the same for paraguay.

yes because its freezing cold in paraguay:)

ronbyrne2005

county wrote:

yes because its freezing cold in paraguay:)

paraguay's weather has nothing to do with it,they have been in europe for last week or two like england,just becasue someone is from a hot country doesnt mean he has any biological differences to someone from a less hot country.

MrJoeSoap

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

paraguay's weather has nothing to do with it,they have been in europe for last week or two like england,just becasue someone is from a hot country doesnt mean he has any biological differences to someone from a less hot country.

They'd be far more used to playing in warm weather. Joe Cole said that was probably one of the warmest days he has played a game in, whilst I'm sure the Paraguayans have played in plenty like that.

ronbyrne2005

MrJoeSoap wrote:

They'd be far more used to playing in warm weather. Joe Cole said that was probably one of the warmest days he has played a game in, whilst I'm sure the Paraguayans have played in plenty like that.

when you say they are "more used" ,what are you saying? they are physically/biologically differnet because they have played in heat more times? or that psychologically they are more accustomed to playing in such heat?im sure all the england players have played in hot temperatures many times and that would prevent such psychological inhibitions.maybe they just didnt prepare well for the heat?

MrJoeSoap

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

when you say they are "more used" ,what are you saying? they are physically/biologically differnet because they have played in heat more times? or that psychologically they are more accustomed to playing in such heat?im sure all the england players have played in hot temperatures many times and that would prevent such psychological inhibitions.maybe they just didnt prepare well for the heat?

Physically/biologically more able I'd say. As I already said, Joe Cole said in the post-game interviews that he probably hasn't played in heat like that since 2002 in South Korea and Japan (even in Portugal '04) and that it was a big factor.

It's got to be at least a contributing factor as to why the home nations generally do so well in the World Cups.

ronbyrne2005

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Physically/biologically more able I'd say. As I already said, Joe Cole said in the post-game interviews that he probably hasn't played in heat like that since 2002 in South Korea and Japan (even in Portugal '04) and that it was a big factor.

It's got to be at least a contributing factor as to why the home nations generally do so well in the World Cups.

people who live in hot countries arent biologically different to people from the likes of england.once these people leave the hotter weather of their own country they rapidly lose any short term advantage,as its now winter in paraguay and they have been in the same climate as england for last week or so theres no biological advantage to them.
if you took your argument to its logical extent people from hot countries competing in the olympics in greece in 2004(where it was much hotter than today) would have a significant advantage over those from northern europe which isnt what happened.
the human body rapidly adapts to the environment its in whether that is a hot one or a very cold one.

MrJoeSoap

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

people who live in hot countries arent biologically different to people from the likes of england.

They are more used to the heat though, the Paraguayan winter has an average temperature of 18 degrees (thats sunbathing weather here!).

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

once these people leave the hotter weather of their own country they rapidly lose any short term advantage,as its now winter in paraguay and they have been in the same climate as england for last week or so theres no biological advantage to them.

I can guarantee you that if you or I were to go to Germany along with a couple of Paraguayans, they would be far more comfortable in the weather, even after a week of acclimatising.

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

if you took your argument to its logical extent people from hot countries competing in the olympics in greece in 2004(where it was much hotter than today) would have a significant advantage over those from northern europe which isnt what happened.

I'm sure those Northern athletes spend much more than a week training in warmer climates.

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

the human body rapidly adapts to the environment its in whether that is a hot one or a very cold one.

I'm going to Thailand in two weeks, do you reckon myself and a Brazillian would be at a level playing field after I had one week to settle in?

PHB

the human body rapidly adapts to the environment its in whether that is a hot one or a very cold one.

That's not technically true.
While in average range countries you'd be fine, if you went to a place like Hong Kong, it'd take a good year before you begin to properly aclimatise.

ronbyrne2005

PHB wrote:

That's not technically true.
While in average range countries you'd be fine, if you went to a place like Hong Kong, it'd take a good year before you begin to properly aclimatise.

every sports science article i have read says athletes can acclimatise to hot/humid environments in less than two weeks .anyone feel free to post links scientifically proving any advantage to a south american over a north european when both have been in same climate for a few weeks

eirebhoy

ronbyrne2005 - I'm no scientist but it has been pretty warm in Dublin the past 2 weeks and I'm still having a hard time sleeping.

PHB

Maybe to the heat, but the heat isn't the problem, it's the humidity normally that gets people.

adox

Sure the heat could be a factor in draining their stamina but they were crap from the first whistle in my eyes and I dont think you can blame the heat on that.:D

MrJoeSoap

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/5069124.stm

"I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses but the conditions definitely played a major part."

Cole, one of the few players to emerge from the 1-0 victory with any credit, said the players first experienced the searing heat in their last training session before the match - and the position did not improve once they were inside the stadium.

"It was really tough, we're not used to playing in these conditions," he said.

"I know it's the same for the other team, and we'll definitely get better with the heat, but I hope the temperature drops.

"We jumped straight into the ice baths when we came off, which aren't that pleasant, but it's all about recovery."

ronbyrne2005

MrJoeSoap wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/5069124.stm

"I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses but the conditions definitely played a major part."

Cole, one of the few players to emerge from the 1-0 victory with any credit, said the players first experienced the searing heat in their last training session before the match - and the position did not improve once they were inside the stadium.

"It was really tough, we're not used to playing in these conditions," he said.

"I know it's the same for the other team, and we'll definitely get better with the heat, but I hope the temperature drops.

"We jumped straight into the ice baths when we came off, which aren't that pleasant, but it's all about recovery."

whats your point ?
it was the same for the paraguay players,they were in same climate as english for last few weeks so there was no physical advantage to them.

MrJoeSoap

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

whats your point ?
it was the same for the paraguay players,they were in same climate as english for last few weeks so there was no physical advantage to them.

My (or Joe Cole's?) point was that the current heatwave only started the day before the game and clearly affected the English players.

Also, the fact the referee wouldn't allow water bottles on the pitch contributed greatly.

Roque Santa Cruz is saying something similar to Cole:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/5068414.stm

ronbyrne2005

MrJoeSoap wrote:

My (or Joe Cole's?) point was that the current heatwave only started the day before the game and clearly affected the English players.

Also, the fact the referee wouldn't allow water bottles on the pitch contributed greatly.

well it only affected the paraguayians since then too,its cool in paraguay now and they have been in europe preparing for the cup in same climate as england,stop making excuses for them,yes it affected the englsih but it affected the paraguayians in exactly the same physical way,the body doesnt have a memory when it comes to heat/thermoregulation.

PHB

well it only affected the paraguayians since then too

Yes that's correct.
When it's horrible horrible weather conditions, it effects both teams.

But any change in normality tends to effect to the good team more, as it reduces the important of skill in the game

tdv

England where poor. Sven dosent have a clue what he wants to do. England are the most over-hyped country ever in the history of football. They where exposed for what they where yesterday & thats a team who trys to play long balls up to a big man for 90 mins. They have no players who can link up with the fowards.
There Defence is over-rated, Ferdinand is a weak link so is Neville, Owen isnt himself. They can blame it on the sun or the Ref or wateva they want. The bottom line is England are not good enough to win the World Cup.

MisterAnarchy

tdv wrote:

England where poor. Sven dosent have a clue what he wants to do. England are the most over-hyped country ever in the history of football. They where exposed for what they where yesterday & thats a team who trys to play long balls up to a big man for 90 mins. They have no players who can link up with the fowards.
There Defence is over-rated, Ferdinand is a weak link so is Neville, Owen isnt himself. They can blame it on the sun or the Ref or wateva they want. The bottom line is England are not good enough to win the World Cup.

Spot on,I agree 100%