Irish army weapons

cork1

I once saw an M203 at an open day in Collins Barracks but while looking at it one of the soldiers told me that the Irish Army had the aug specially fitted with the M203 but it is only for training purposes as the Irish ones can't be fired.As well as this I saw a Javeline ground launced heat seeker missile system.At the time I was told that Ireland did not carry a large stock of these missiles due to the cost but aswell as this in training the Irish have only fired it three times leaving three people in the country fully trained ready to use it if they ever needed to.In my opinion they would have a better chance of shooting down a plane if one man stood in a field firing a pistol as I said tho this is just my opinion. I also think that they should have bought less equipment and spent the extra money on training which is vital.

Manic Moran

Whilst there is no real replacement for live fire, the sheer cost of the round (At about $60K a shot) indicates that not everyone will get to fire a warshot. There are, however, simulators and other non-live fire exercises that are the 90% solution. Even the US Army doesn't live-fire absolutely everything: I qualified on the AT-4 by shooting subcalibre rounds.

NTM

cushtac

cork1 wrote:

I once saw an M203 at an open day in Collins Barracks but while looking at it one of the soldiers told me that the Irish Army had the aug specially fitted with the M203 but it is only for training purposes as the Irish ones can't be fired.

He was wrong, they're 'proper' weapons capable of firing 'proper' rounds. What would be the point in buying a weapon if it isn't able to be used?

cork1 wrote:

As well as this I saw a Javeline ground launced heat seeker missile system.At the time I was told that Ireland did not carry a large stock of these missiles due to the cost but aswell as this in training the Irish have only fired it three times leaving three people in the country fully trained ready to use it if they ever needed to.

As Manic said, you don't have to actually fire the weapon to be fully trained on it. There's simulators available for the Javelin that can replicate everything except the large bang at the end, so there's no need for everyone to fire it.

There's more than three personnel trained on it too.

cork1 wrote:

In my opinion they would have a better chance of shooting down a plane if one man stood in a field firing a pistol as I said tho this is just my opinion.

The Javelin is an anti-tank missile, not an anti-aircraft one.

cork1 wrote:

I also think that they should have bought less equipment and spent the extra money on training which is vital.

It can't be a question of either kit or training, there's no point in having one without the other. For years the Defence Forces was stuck with obsolescent equipment, and in many cases it still is. The new kit that's been bought in the past few years is vital if they are to continue to operate overseas.

Manic Moran

cushtac wrote:

The Javelin is an anti-tank missile, not an anti-aircraft one.

Easy mistake to make though, Javelin is also the name of a surface-to-air missile made in Northern Ireland for the British Army.

NTM

darragh o meara

Having shot the:

Steyr
84mm Anti tank
Sraaw
Bren
Gustaf
Accuracy international
BAP
FN FAL
303
and a few rounds from the aml 90

I can highly recommend the 84mm anti tank.. Theres no feeling like leaving off a few rounds from one of those babies... I had the pleasure of doing a few 84 courses and I've shot around 20 rounds from it not including sub caliber..

The steyr is a nice rifle if you know how to use it properly but I really did love the FN FAL which felt and operated like a real rifle.

I hated the gustaf I thought it was too dangerous and only shot it twice

Bren gun is a great weapon to shoot if you can hold onto it

303 pure shooting material how a real gun should be

I found the BAP hard to get a proper shot with but enjoyed my few shoots with it

The accuracy international was something else and something i would love to fire again the accuracy is just unreal

projectmayhem

KdjaC wrote:

Is there pics of these weapons on any site?


Thanks.


kdjac

my brother's in the RDF and his eyes lit up when he saw me using the ballpup in CSS, so there's one (if you play css, that is)

babybundy

Omeara_darragh wrote:

I found the BAP hard to get a proper shot with but enjoyed my few shoots with it

i didnt have any problem with the bap it hit the target every time i fired it bar once or twice on my first day firing

mayhem#

Bap's are for lunch, not for shooting!

E.

babybundy

mayhem# wrote:

Bap's are for lunch, not for shooting!

E.

ok B.A.P.:p

mayhem#

Not a very interesting handgun but damn reliable though....

E.

joebhoy1916

KdjaC wrote:

Is there pics of these weapons on any site?


Thanks.


kdjac

Here's the Javelin http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/javelin10.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/

babybundy

mayhem# wrote:

Not a very interesting handgun but damn reliable though....

E.

ya other than the couple we broke they are good era i supposethe where at least 30 years old

Mick86

skink wrote:

120mm mortar(not sure on what is happening here, possibly up for a change soon enough)
carl gustav 84mm recoiless rifle(explained already)also hagar, the sight system is very good on it, and you know the saying if it ain't broke don't fix it!

The 120mm is obsolete now. And the 84 (which must be one of the best weapons ever designed) is going strong with updated sights and ammo.

Maskhadov

The DF got new 60mm mortars a year or two ago.

http://www.62infantry.com/Weapons_Equipment/Vektor_60mm_Mortar.shtml

Victor

What grenades are used?

Sarsfield

Some pics I took at the Easter Parade

babybundy

Victor wrote:

What grenades are used?

ones that go bang:D

Manic Moran

Victor wrote:

What grenades are used?

Better than the American ones.

Irish are the M72A1 and NR-2B, if memory serves. Quite handy little light yokes, egg-shaped, great for pegging.

When I first played with the American M-67, which is an absolutely archaic base-ball of metal with a fuse on the end, I was astounded. Still makes a hell of a bang, but nowhere near as chuckable.

NTM

Maskhadov

The defence forces are ordering 15 more mowags. A few will be armed with a 30mm cannon. See attached picture,



The DF should have got this as standard on all of the mowags.

Here is the medical variant.. the DF is getting 4 i belive



Here is the command and control variant .. not to sure how many of these were getting

babybundy

the ones with the cannons are for the cavi and i tought i saw in an cosintor it was more i think it was some thing in the range of 15 for the cav a couple of troop carriers some medic's and some comand posts

Maskhadov

The DF has got new body armour (doesnt look up to much) new helmets and new chest rigs for the PDF. It has also got new night vision which looks incredibly flat (something akin to those new flashy digital cameras in terms of dimensions).

Victor

Manic Moran wrote:

Irish are the M72A1 and NR-2B, if memory serves. Quite handy little light yokes, egg-shaped, great for pegging.

Hand Grenades. M72A1 is LAW.

Google finds nothing meaningful for NR-2B.

Hagar

I remember using the Argus 69 ( sp.) , but that was many moons ago.

Maskhadov

The DF also got Sophie thermal imaging equipment



Field Deployable HQs Containers......on page 26 of this document.. could be better images though

http://www.military.ie/images/pdfs%20for%202006/annualreport05_eng.pdf

cushtac

Maskhadov wrote:

The DF has got new body armour (doesnt look up to much)

What do you know about body armour that allows you to determine it's usefulness from looking at it? :rolleyes:

Mick86

Victor wrote:

Hand Grenades. M72A1 is LAW.

Google finds nothing meaningful for NR-2B.

He means the NR423. It's on page 4 of this PDF file.

https://naveodtechdiv.jeodnet.mil/IraqOIG/PDF-low/05-Grenade.pdf

Maskhadov

cushtac wrote:

What do you know about body armour that allows you to determine it's usefulness from looking at it? :rolleyes:

Well if its proper body armour then the plates are usually VERY thick. flak jackets on the other hand are a lot thinner but arent up to much.

cushtac

Maskhadov wrote:

Well if its proper body armour then the plates are usually VERY thick. flak jackets on the other hand are a lot thinner but arent up to much.

I happen to sell body armour for a living, and I can tell you that you haven't a clue.

Flirstly, flak jacket is a colloquial term that does not refer to a particular type of body armour. It comes from the heavy body armour issued to some Allied bomber crews in WW2 to protect them from German anti-aircraft flak, hence the term.

Secondly, you're confusing hard and soft armour. Hard armour consists of plates made from ceramic or synthetic materials. It's worn in conjuction with the flexible soft armour, which is made from synthetic fibres. Depending on the materials used, the plates used in body armour can range from 1 to 4 centimetres in thickness with the average thickness coming in around 2.5/3cm - not what I'd call 'VERY thick'.

Thirdly, the performance of body armour is very subjective - that's why armour carries a rating to tell you what it protects against. The soft portion of your average military vest is rated at NiJ level IIIA, this provides useful protection against handguns and low-velocity shrapnel (grenades etc.) To say they 'aren't up to much' shows an ignorance of body armour - it's like putting an Impreza up against an F1 car, watch it get beaten around the track & then writing the Impreza off as slow.

Fourthly, how you're able to determine the thickness of the plates (if there are any) being worn in the pictures is beyond me. The soldiers in the pics tend to be holding weapons in front of their chests, making any identification of the plates impossible.

Maskhadov

I have served in the military. I know a darn sight more than you do.

cushtac

Maskhadov wrote:

I have served in the military. I know a darn sight more than you do.

So why did you think that body armour and flak jackets, both general terms for the same thing, were different items of protective equipment?

joebhoy1916

cushtac wrote:

I happen to sell body armour for a living, and I can tell you that you haven't a clue.

You sell body armour as in bullet proof jacket's? Do you have to some kinda license to buy one of them? Just curious how much are they?

cushtac

This was discussed here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054965463

Maskhadov

cushtac wrote:

So why did you think that body armour and flak jackets, both general terms for the same thing, were different items of protective equipment?

Yes they are totally different. Flak jackets are an earlier invention. They didnt have steel plates or kevlar. They were just designed to stop or slow down peices of flak or secondary splinters from killing you. These secondary splinters usually were flying at a lower velocity. A bullet will pass right through two sides of a flak jacket no problem.

Body armour as its name suggests will stop a certain amount of ball amunition.

cushtac

Maskhadov wrote:

Yes they are totally different. Flak jackets are an earlier invention. They didnt have steel plates or kevlar. They were just designed to stop or slow down peices of flak or secondary splinters from killing you. These secondary splinters usually were flying at a lower velocity. A bullet will pass right through two sides of a flak jacket no problem.

Body armour as its name suggests will stop a certain amount of ball amunition.

I know what a flak jacket is, I've already said where the term came from. The term 'flak jacket' is now a generic term for body armour, much like 'hoover' is used to describe all vacumn cleaners. The PDF call their current-issue body armour, which is made of kevlar and is capable of taking ballistic plates, as a 'flakker'.

The Irish call them flakkers, the Yanks call their vests the Interceptor or IBA, UK police call their vests stabbies or PPE - all different names for the same thing, body armour.

Case in point: http://www.niton999.co.uk/new/bodyarmour.asp
http://www.bulletproofme.com/
http://www.vestguard.co.uk/productselect.php?t_id=1%20&t_name=Body%20Armour

Three different sites, all selling different types of protective kit called 'body armour'. There's plenty more companies out there doing the same thing, are you telling me they're all using the wrong terminology?

cushtac

Other than symantics, do you want to disagree with anything else I've said on the subject?

muletide

Lads give it a break no one really cares which one of ye knows more. If ye want to compare willy sizes go to IMO

Maskhadov

case closed.

cushtac

Do you have anything useful to contribute yourself?

muletide

not now but as soon as i have worn the new armour on operations i will let you know what i think of it. as opposed to just speculate about what its like. Walter

Hagar

Calm down lads. We all learn something here listening to each other.
I've often learned I'm wrong, but I learned from it all the same.

cushtac

muletide wrote:

not now but as soon as i have worn the new armour on operations i will let you know what i think of it. as opposed to just speculate about what its like. Walter

Funnily enough I didn't speculate on what the new armour is like, I actually questioned how someone could do so after only seeing a picture of it. So you might want to actually read something before passing comment on it.

As for me being a walter, I sell this stuff for a living so I have to know what I'm talking about. I've supplied vests to Gardai, security companies and to the likes of journalists & business people who are operating in dangerous parts of the world. It's not waltering if it's part of your job.

Mick86

Maskhadov wrote:

Yes they are totally different. Flak jackets are an earlier invention. They didnt have steel plates or kevlar. They were just designed to stop or slow down peices of flak or secondary splinters from killing you. These secondary splinters usually were flying at a lower velocity. A bullet will pass right through two sides of a flak jacket no problem.

Body armour as its name suggests will stop a certain amount of ball amunition.

Body armour is just a modern term for flak jacket. Flak jackets now come with little pouches on chest and back where you can slip in a kevlar plate. They'll save your life if the enemy hits the plate although I wouldn't put any money on one stopping a .5 round or even a 7.62 at close range.



Vietnam era flak jacket



Modern flak jacket with the pouch for the plate evident.

GerryRyan

Bren LMG .303(light machine gun in use by rdf only)

You would think that by now these would be de-commisioned. I'm in the RDF, and we have to know how to disassemble and clean this gun. We won't even be firing them because the ammo isn't being produced anymore (but feel free to correct me on that).
In any other country these guns would be in museums or something; but in Ireland it's just a case of "sure feck it, just give them to the FCA/RDF"

/rant over

Maskhadov

The FCA does exist anymore. There is now a reserve defence force that mirrors the permament defence force in both equipment (broadly speaking)and structure.

The Bren LMG is being phased out as part of the re-org. Most units should have access to the GPMG.

Mick86

ThatGuy wrote:

Bren LMG .303(light machine gun in use by rdf only)

You would think that by now these would be de-commisioned. I'm in the RDF, and we have to know how to disassemble and clean this gun. We won't even be firing them because the ammo isn't being produced anymore (but feel free to correct me on that).
In any other country these guns would be in museums or something; but in Ireland it's just a case of "sure feck it, just give them to the FCA/RDF"

/rant over

The British Army converted them to 7.62mm and used them until quite recently.

Bam Bam

The Bren is a grand weapon, Its light and accurate, and easier to maintain thaen the GPMG. Its only real disadvantage is that it uses a magazine instead of a belt so its ammo, and firing rate is limited.

For sheer power the GPMG can't be beat, Its just a pain in the arse to carry.

babybundy

the ammo is still being made i like the bren

Latchy

Just like the one i am wearing in this pic.They were also quite warm in winter specialy on the early morning escorts/border patrols we used to do .

babybundy

i miss the old greens

Captain Chaos

Just a question about the new HK USP 9mm that is to become the new service pistol. Have these guns started being delivered yet and have the PDF started training with them yet?