White Oak Architrave and Door frames

bro'

Hi
I plan on installing white oak doors and architrave. My builder has mentioned that I should use normal pine timber for the door frames instead of white oak. He says that alot of it is hidden and only the rebate is visible and can be stained to make look like the rest of the architrave?

I know it's cheaper using pine than Oak for the door frames.

Has anyone done this and what are your thoughts on this ?

Dinarius

I used white oak for everything. You can't beat the real thing! Stain will never match exactly.

D.

tribesman

Stain won't match properly and there is a good lot of the door frame visible even when the door is hung and the architrave is up.

We didn't decide on oak until after we had already installed red-deal door frames. What we did was painted the door frames orchid white and varnished the oak doors and architrave. It came out well IMO. There's a nice contrast between the two colours.

bro'

Cheers for the responses..

I really would like get a good understanding of what amount of 'stained' pine door frames would be visible as my builder is pushing me this way due to leadtimes, but he also mentioned that only a small bit would be visible i.e behind the door close rebate section but from tribesman comment it seems more will be visible?

He said he would show me another house with it in so i hope to see the stain finish effect to decide on whether to use the oak or pine door frames.

jack24

Hi there,

We had a similar issue recently, architrave etc pine and doors white oak. Tried staining a sample or the architrave and it looked awful, the knots on the pine looked awful next to the door and I would think you might find it hard to get a varnish/stain to match the colour of your doors. In the end we went for a satin white painted architrave for the surrounds and it looks very nice. I suppose another factor to consider is the flooring/skirting, we would have ended up with oak overload if we went for oak floor/skirting/architrave/doors etc. Good luck (BTW I assume the builder is saying that the quote never included oak mouldings etc....)

Jack

tribesman

There is very little door frame visible on the side that the door opens but on the other side you've usually got about 3 inches visible even with the door closed.

iplogger1

Dinarius wrote:

I used white oak for everything. You can't beat the real thing! Stain will never match exactly.

D.

I've been looking at white oak doors versus red deal for internal doors.
It seems that anything on the standard catalogue which is classed
as white oak is infact engineered/veneered with something like 0.5mm
wear layer of white oak veneer engineered over some softwood or
mdf core. I am subject to correction on this, of course.

I've heard genuine solid white oak doors (when they are purchased
as a special order) are generally constructed with 2 x half thickness
(say 20-22mm thick) stiles in order to counteract strains/stresses
and to give some thermal stability,etc. I've not priced that sort of
door as I know before I start it would be probably way outside my
budget. In the end I think we are staying with mortice/tenon constructed
red deal. Better quality than most pines and thinking so far is we will
put very little (if any) stain on before putting on sealer to keep the
light colour of the native timber. (my wife dislikes the blonde/amber
coloration red deal comes up with the most common stains out there).

Avns1s

jack24 wrote:

Hi there,

I suppose another factor to consider is the flooring/skirting, we would have ended up with oak overload if we went for oak floor/skirting/architrave/doors etc. Good luck (BTW I assume the builder is saying that the quote never included oak mouldings etc....)

Jack

I have white oak doors, doorframes, skirtings, architrave complete with a "hockey stick" mould to give it a more "robust" look. In addition to this many of the walls are 9inch wide to accommodate the hollowcore flooring overhead. IMHO it looks great BUT i do accept that the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


bro' - dont let the builder talk you into red deal doorframes. They will look rubbish. The red deal will take the stain differently to the oak, the knots will look totally different. I know it can be a little difficult to get the oak door frames but it is worth both the trouble, expense and the delay, if you like the oak. To me there is no comparison and when you're goning the distance on the rest why would you skimp on this small part??

bro'

tribesman wrote:

There is very little door frame visible on the side that the door opens but on the other side you've usually got about 3 inches visible even with the door closed.

Hi Tribesman, if i understand my builder correctly he is saying that the only bit visible is the rebate on the side where the door opens and an oak doorstop 'slip' covers the other side.

Avns1s

iplogger1 wrote:

I've been looking at white oak doors versus red deal for internal doors.
It seems that anything on the standard catalogue which is classed
as white oak is infact engineered/veneered with something like 0.5mm
wear layer of white oak veneer engineered over some softwood or
mdf core. I am subject to correction on this, of course.

I've heard genuine solid white oak doors (when they are purchased
as a special order) are generally constructed with 2 x half thickness
(say 20-22mm thick) stiles in order to counteract strains/stresses
and to give some thermal stability,etc. I've not priced that sort of
door as I know before I start it would be probably way outside my
budget. In the end I think we are staying with mortice/tenon constructed
red deal. Better quality than most pines and thinking so far is we will
put very little (if any) stain on before putting on sealer to keep the
light colour of the native timber. (my wife dislikes the blonde/amber
coloration red deal comes up with the most common stains out there).

My "Solid Oak" doors came from Carroll Joinery through the local Builders providers. I think about €160 per door. They are engineered solid oak, i.e. all the wood used in the construction of the door was oak but cut in strips and glued back together to prevent warping etc. Then covered with a veneer. They were heavy compared to the pine doors. I can give a number for the rep on pm if this is of interest. Incidentially genuine solid oak doors generally have to be handmade and I priced them at about €550 each!!!

bro'

Avns1s wrote:

I have white oak doors, doorframes, skirtings, architrave complete with a "hockey stick" mould to give it a more "robust" look. In addition to this many of the walls are 9inch wide to accommodate the hollowcore flooring overhead. IMHO it looks great BUT i do accept that the beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


bro' - dont let the builder talk you into red deal doorframes. They will look rubbish. The red deal will take the stain differently to the oak, the knots will look totally different. I know it can be a little difficult to get the oak door frames but it is worth both the trouble, expense and the delay, if you like the oak. To me there is no comparison and when you're goning the distance on the rest why would you skimp on this small part??

Although it will be cheaper with red deal, this is not my main reason for possibly goig with red deal door jams etc as i told the builder I want White oak doors and architrave , he is under pressure to put the door frames in now for plastering. as mentioned before he believes it will delay things If to use oak and he also mentions why use oak which will be covered in plaster and eventually hidden with the oak door architrave?

i must speak to him as dont want to agree to something which will later be unhappy with finish

Avns1s

bro' wrote:

Although it will be cheaper with red deal, this is not my main reason for possibly goig with red deal door jams etc as i told the builder I want White oak doors and architrave , he is under pressure to put the door frames in now for plastering. as mentioned before he believes it will delay things If to use oak and he also mentions why use oak which will be covered in plaster and eventually hidden with the oak door architrave?

i must speak to him as dont want to agree to something which will later be unhappy with finish

My builder just cut door frames from 8 x 4 sheets of OSB for the plastering, then removed them and fitted the oak door frames when the plastering was finished. Your builder is right on that one. There is no point in destroying oak frames with plaster and destroy them it will.

kadman

Any builder that covers an oak doorframe in plaster, should be shown the shortest route to the gate with a swift kick up the arse.

Above all other timbers, the tannin in white oak will react severely with the chemicals in the plaster, which will result in black staining. This is virtually impossible to repair.

You could go red deal with the frames, and not use a rebated frame, and plant on white oak stops. If you want to live with stained red deal on the frame internal faces. Another option is to clad a red deal frame with a full face of oak mdf, hang the door and then plant on oak stops, put the architrave within 5 mm of the edges on the two sides of the frame, hey presto oak frames.

Of course solid frames are the way to go, but this is an option for you.

Me reccomending using mdf....aaaarrrgghh:p

kadman

Qwerty?

We used a softwood subframe, and after plastering glued white oak slips 94x12 and 50x12 as shown in the attached image so you have no softwood showing.
We got them off http://woodmarketirl.com/

Hope the image works ok.

bro'

Cheers Kadman for your explaining the options available..

Qwerty, great link .I must get a quote from them as was looking at www.doorstore.co.uk in belfast.

Excuse my ignorance but if I was to use the softwood frame and then attach the oak slips as you say qwerty then am I reducing my door frame width and consequently the door width size i.e just concerned I would need to modify the doors to fit the reduced door frame size?

Qwerty?

bro' wrote:

Excuse my ignorance but if I was to use the softwood frame and then attach the oak slips as you say qwerty then am I reducing my door frame width and consequently the door width size i.e just concerned I would need to modify the doors to fit the reduced door frame size?

No the softwood frame is reduced by the 12mm already, so when the oak slips are planted on you then have a normal sized doorframe.
BTW I'm sure a local joinery can run these frames off for you, just make sure the rebate is 12x50.

Dinarius

By the way..........

Heiton Buckleys sell white oak door frame kits. Solid white oak.

Some of my walls were thicker than standard so the kits didn't work on those. I had them made up by Timber Factors in Dublin. Superb quality and very reasonable.

D.

bro'

Qwerty? wrote:

No the softwood frame is reduced by the 12mm already, so when the oak slips are planted on you then have a normal sized doorframe.
BTW I'm sure a local joinery can run these frames off for you, just make sure the rebate is 12x50.

thanks Qwerty, just need to make sure if builder does not want to use hardwood frames then he has a rebate cut in the softwood frame for the oak slip retrofit.:)

tribesman

Here's how it looks with white oak doors/architrave and painted door frame. As I said earlier we had already put in the red-deal frames when we decided to go with oak doors so we had to paint the frames. We're happy with the result but you still have a choice so don't get pressurised into something that you're not entirely happy with. You might be looking at it and kicking yourself for a long time.

Those suggestions of oak door slips look good though. That way you won't have to worry about protecting the frames during plastering. Nobody will be as careful as you'd like them to be.

the crank

you can get venered white oak frames there much cheaper and look well,
only thing is dont even think of putting them in until the plasterer is long gone and i mean long gone no offience but they can be like bulls ina china shop, also the damp woulid lift the veneer and turn it black which you cant sand off.;)

cutdog

tribesman wrote: »

Here's how it looks with white oak doors/architrave and painted door frame. As I said earlier we had already put in the red-deal frames when we decided to go with oak doors so we had to paint the frames. We're happy with the result but you still have a choice so don't get pressurised into something that you're not entirely happy with. You might be looking at it and kicking yourself for a long time.

Those suggestions of oak door slips look good though. That way you won't have to worry about protecting the frames during plastering. Nobody will be as careful as you'd like them to be.

i know this is late to this subject but for any1 planning on buying oak doors i recommend going to max salvage just off the south circular road near pheonix park dublin they have solid oak interior doors for 50euro! liquidation sale! they have other type of doors to all solid woods so get there now for a proper bargain. some serouis deals on quality doors and other good items for your house i saw a solid bronze fire place 600euro im not sure but i think bronze fire place cost a couple of grand brand new correct me im wrong but looked well cheap

exaisle

cutdog wrote: »

i know this is late to this subject but for any1 planning on buying oak doors i recommend going to max salvage just off the south circular road near pheonix park dublin they have solid oak interior doors for 50euro! liquidation sale! they have other type of doors to all solid woods so get there now for a proper bargain. some serouis deals on quality doors and other good items for your house i saw a solid bronze fire place 600euro im not sure but i think bronze fire place cost a couple of grand brand new correct me im wrong but looked well cheap

Hmmm only one post? Guess where you work????? ;-)

If you're going to advertise, do it openly...in adverts.ie
Probably get more potential customers there anyhow :-)