Review Maths P2 Higher

Maths II Paper has just gone online:

http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2006/LC003ALP200EV.pdf

(if you want the Irish version, go get it yourself)

Funkstard

Raphael wrote:

actually you get

C.C + C.B - B.C - B.B
|C|-|B|

And because o is the circumcentre, |C| = |B|, so |C|-|B| = 0

I can't believe I was so stupid...I got to -|C| + |B| and left it. If I had just put down '= 0' I would have gotten full marks. I bet you the examiner will think I didn't know what I was doing and mark me down loads.

Here's how I did:

1 - Fine except I got wrong values for p in b), couldn't get c)ii) - ran out of time
2 - Fine except that fecking part c
3 - 50/50
4 - Terrible. Couldn't do the equation in b), didn't get c)ii) out
5 - Joke. Graph wrong, wrote down something about tan pie/2 being undefinable for the tank thing. For part b I was doubting myself how easy it was, just realised I did it wrong. Yay.
8 - Fine apart from c). I should get most of the marks for it though.

Overall I was hoping for an easy paper in comparison to paper 1, and this nearly proved to be worse. There's uproar over it on the radio though, so maybe they'll make the marking scheme easier.

Raphael

Ouch, that's a pain when that happens. If you had the technique right up to that point you'll probably get a good few marks

big_moe

on Q.5 (b) (i)+(ii)is it just me or was the slanted edge 186m?? if u draw that out as a triangle, the base is 230m and the perpendicular height is 146m. then half the base is 115m. then with pythagoras, 146^2+115^2="slanted edge"^2

this works out as 185.85m or nearest metre, 186m.

then part (ii)use cosine rul with the angle at the top of the pyramid, and the 186 metres from above and the 230 for the base.
e.g. 230^2=146^2+146^2-2(146)(146)cosA
that works out as 16811.56msq multiply by 4 sides and u get 67246.24msq

holla bac

ps 5 a was maaad easy! just sub in for x! i got crazy answers fort one or two like tan^-1(-2) but it was grand

whassupp2

I fooked up big time on the pyramid question. it was so easy. i dont know what i was thinkin. thought i had it right until i saw the answers..........:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Faerie

big_moe wrote:

on Q.5 (b) (i)+(ii)is it just me or was the slanted edge 186m?? if u draw that out as a triangle, the base is 230m and the perpendicular height is 146m. then half the base is 115m. then with pythagoras, 146^2+115^2="slanted edge"^2

this works out as 185.85m or nearest metre, 186m.

I got 186 too but now I think it's wrong!

DemonOfTheFall

1. Grand except for C part (ii). I started to write down the correct answer but thought "nah, screw it, thats not right". Hopefully got the attempt mark.
2. All but (c). Didn't really know what to do but hopefully got enough for an attempt.
3. Perfect, lovely question.
4. (C) :S, the rest easy peasy.
5. No thanks...
6. Nice question got it all out I hope.
7. Bad bad bad... Didn't get (b) or (c)
8. Really nice question, got it all straight away.

sticky9cd

joxer05 wrote:

I just want to check what other people got. I got:

1.(a) (x-1)sqrd+(y+1)sqrd=8 same
(b)(ii) p=0, p=-12/35 [B/]same[/B]
(c)(i)I substituted in x into S and found bsqrd-4ac less than 0, implies no real roots, implies K doesnt intersect S same
(c)(ii) (2,1) didnt get

2.(a) 3i-j same
(b)(i) pq= 6i-8j, pr=4i+3j same
(ii) s= 7i-j same
(iii) Angle=45 degrees same
(c) got as far as dot product= length b sqrd - length of c sqrd. did you have to say that length b = length c, implies dot product= 0? didnt get

3.(b) q(8,0) , r(0,-12) got q = (1/2,0) and r= (0,3) - i think im right
(c)(ii) Angle=54 degrees got 45 degrees but unsure

4.(a) A= 60 or 300 degrees same
(b)(i) 2Cos(2x+30)Sin(x+30) same
(ii) x E (30, 120, 150, 330) got 30 and 150 altogether-got the same solutions from sin and cos
(c)(i) r=k/root3 didnt get
(ii) Area Circle= Pi K sqrd/3, Area Sector= Pi k sqrd/6 didnt get

5.(a) WTF!!easy-look at page 9 in tables!!!!
(iv) wrote nothing got it wrong
(b)(i) 272m 185 - i know im right
(ii) 110,000m sqrd cant remember but it wasnt that

8.(b)(i) a(0,2-4m) , b(4-2/m,0) same
(ii) no time got m=1/2
(c)(i) -1/3 less than x less than 1/3 same
(ii) r= 1/4, no time to finish :mad:didnt get finished properly:mad:

looks like we had mort right- would be hoping for a b with what i have. or is it possible with what i got done? think i got a high c or low b on paper 1

big_moe

i think 186m is right, for the slanted edge of the pyramid. even compare it to the height they tell u of 146m! 273m or whatever looks waaay off!! how many marks u reckon will be goin for the whole b part considering no c part...

OctavarIan

Faerie wrote:

I got 186 too but now I think it's wrong!

I got that but I think I went back and worked it out again. Can't remember. But you use half a diagonal on the base and then the center 146m pole and pythagoras to do it.

OctavarIan

big_moe wrote:

on Q.5 (b) (i)+(ii)is it just me or was the slanted edge 186m?? if u draw that out as a triangle, the base is 230m and the perpendicular height is 146m. then half the base is 115m. then with pythagoras, 146^2+115^2="slanted edge"^2

this works out as 185.85m or nearest metre, 186m.

Yeah, but I think they meant the long slant, at the four corners. If so, you can't do it the way you've said. If you try to picture it in 3D, the perp height and the base sides can't be used with pythagoras to find the long slant.

[edit] double post, oops

Raphael

You have to get the length of the diagonal in the base using pythagoras, then half that to get b. h is given, and the slant is equal to the square root of (h.h+b.b). Right?

DonaldDuck

OctavarIan wrote:

Yeah, but I think they meant the long slant, at the four corners. If so, you can't do it the way you've said. If you try to picture it in 3D, the perp height and the base sides can't be used with pythagoras to find the long slant.

[edit] double post, oops

It worked out the same didnt it?I remembered it doing so :eek:

big_moe

You have to get the length of the diagonal in the base using pythagoras, then half that to get b. h is given, and the slant is equal to the square root of (h.h+b.b). Right?

yeah ****e, thats the way to do. bollox, i never thought of it that way.. it works out as 218m


bollox again

caesar

big_moe wrote:

on Q.5 (b) (i)+(ii)is it just me or was the slanted edge 186m?? if u draw that out as a triangle, the base is 230m and the perpendicular height is 146m. then half the base is 115m. then with pythagoras, 146^2+115^2="slanted edge"^2

this works out as 185.85m or nearest metre, 186m.

I did that too and got that answer, but its wrong.

Shark-69

I also got 186m for Q5b(i) but I blame this on the diagram and a lapse in concentration .....but still i thought i used what i had found correctly in part (ii) by basic trig.....I must have f**ked up somewhere because i got 86,000m?

:|

Im not even going to bother doing one of them things cos it just works out at Q1+Q2+Q3+Q4+Q5+Q8= ****e

Balls

fearcruach

Shark-69 wrote:

I also got 186m for Q5b(i) but I blame this on the diagram and a lapse in concentration .....but still i thought i used what i had found correctly in part (ii) by basic trig.....I must have f**ked up somewhere because i got 86,000m?

i got 87,000 so maybe we're both or just fools:)

Funkstard

Irish Times wrote:

Leaving Cert honours maths paper 'disgraceful'

The State Examinations Commission is under pressure to explain the content of yesterday's Leaving Cert higher level maths paper, after teachers and students labelled it "impossible" and "disgraceful".

The ASTI subject representative for maths, Eileen Scanlon, said the paper was "outrageous" and appeared designed to catch out both students and the teachers who had instructed them.

The controversy comes at a time when the Government and business leaders are attempting to revive a subject, which has dipped in popularity. Only 11,000 students took higher level maths yesterday, a fraction of the numbers taking honours level in most other subjects.

The examinations commission said it had received a small number of complaints about the paper and these would be brought to the attention of the chief examiner.

Yesterday's paper came after the maths chief examiner complained last year of "a noticeable slippage over a relatively short period of time in the quality of work" being presented by higher-level candidates. He said students were using rote-learning techniques but were often incapable of independent thinking.

Teachers say yesterday's paper 2 was designed to put rote learners - and those who had learned off grind-school notes - at a disadvantage over those who can employ independent mathematical reasoning.

Last week, in an Irish Times article, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern backed less emphasis on rote learning and a greater role for independent thinking in a reformed Leaving Cert exam.

Ms Scanlon said she was "very angry" that the union's representations for clearer, more relevant maths papers had been ignored yet again.

Students were reportedly thrown into a panic by yesterday's trigonometry question, regarded as a "banker" by teachers and students.

Teachers felt the question was outrageously difficult. "Whoever set that paper hasn't a clue what's going on in classrooms," one said.

Aidan Roantree of the Institute of Education in Dublin said the paper was more difficult than in recent years. "There was, for example, a photograph of the great pyramid at Giza in Egypt," he said. "Students are used to seeing diagrams rather than photographs. This may have thrown a few.

The probability question, which students could have taken instead of trigonometry, was also regarded as complicated and confusing by many students.

Last month, a report compiled largely by maths teachers at third level complained that many higher-level maths students had little basic understanding of the subject.

I've heard people saying it was the worst paper in 40 years..that we were used as guinea pigs because they tried to ask questions suited to what we'd expect in 1st year of college, yet they forgot that there's nothing on the course to teach us like that. Everyone is going absolutely mad over it

smemon

every bloody year we hear this rubbish about maths being too hard - if it's too hard dont do it.

if your good enough at maths, you'll have no problem at higher level. it's sour grapes from the students who need higher maths but just aren't good enough at that level.

some even end up failing and they deserve it imo.

Attractive Nun

Personally I think the department are absolutely right to encourage independent mathematical thinking. I'd say, for example, that there are about 3 people in my maths class that actually understand what's actually happening when you differentiate a function, where the technique comes from. It's ridiculous really.

But they should actually tell us they want to do that, and teach us how. I would never have realised that tan90 is infinite in that trignometry question yesterday, and I'm pretty good at maths. It just hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've been aware of. It's a shame because it does seem somewhat more interesting that learning off methods and such. Ah well.

Funkstard

Attractive Nun wrote:

Personally I think the department are absolutely right to encourage independent mathematical thinking. I'd say, for example, that there are about 3 people in my maths class that actually understand what's actually happening when you differentiate a function, where the technique comes from. It's ridiculous really.

But they should actually tell us they want to do that, and teach us how. I would never have realised that tan90 is infinite in that trignometry question yesterday, and I'm pretty good at maths. It just hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've been aware of. It's a shame because it does seem somewhat more interesting that learning off methods and such. Ah well.

I guess I'm lucky to have such a good maths teacher so. He spent lots of time with us on the theory of differentiation and whatever else to make sure we knew what was actually going on. Like, I know absolutely everything on the course and was able to answer every single past paper. I'd kept the extra notes we were given which explained things even further, and I was still screwed over yesterday. The exam wasn't a test on how well we knew the course, and herein lies the problem.

Feral Mutant

Funkstard wrote:

I've heard people saying it was the worst paper in 40 years

I think what it said in the paper was the worst paper in 4 years. Don't hold me to that, I could be wrong.

I welcome feelings of outrage and disgrace towards the paper, makes it more likely it'll be marked easier.

Funkstard

Ah right. I thought the 40 figure was a bit outlandish myself

NADA

Attractive Nun wrote:

Personally I think the department are absolutely right to encourage independent mathematical thinking. I'd say, for example, that there are about 3 people in my maths class that actually understand what's actually happening when you differentiate a function, where the technique comes from. It's ridiculous really.

But they should actually tell us they want to do that, and teach us how. I would never have realised that tan90 is infinite in that trignometry question yesterday, and I'm pretty good at maths. It just hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've been aware of. It's a shame because it does seem somewhat more interesting that learning off methods and such. Ah well.

Thing is it was there in front of you all the time. I'm not talking aboiut you in particular but most people don't know where most of the trigonometric functions come from. If you understand the unit circle you should have understood that question. You probably know tanA= sinA/cosA. So look at 90 degrees on the unit circle. Sin 90= 1 and cos90=0. This means that tanA= 1/0 and therefore you know its undefined. That's the problem. Most people think honours maths is hard where as if they actually learn what happens it will be easier. I know they think it's earier to just learn stuff off but understanding makes that much more easier. OF course it's easier to learn by rote in the short term were as if you understand something you will never forget it.

Attractive Nun

Funkstard wrote:

I guess I'm lucky to have such a good maths teacher so. He spent lots of time with us on the theory of differentiation and whatever else to make sure we knew what was actually going on. Like, I know absolutely everything on the course and was able to answer every single past paper. I'd kept the extra notes we were given which explained things even further, and I was still screwed over yesterday. The exam wasn't a test on how well we knew the course, and herein lies the problem.

I had quite a good maths teacher as well, and an equally good applied maths teacher. We were taught the theory on a basic enough level so we could answer any questions that had ever been asked, but no more. There was really no reason to be taught it any more, the syllabus and past papers didn't require it. You're exactly right, the exam wasn't a test on how well we knew the course. If they want to write such an exam (and I think they should), then they have to adjust the course appropriately.

Faerie

=Feral Mutant

I welcome feelings of outrage and disgrace towards the paper, makes it more likely it'll be marked easier.

I couldn't agree more! Bring on the complaints!

And my teacher never told us the theory behind anything! His motto was 'Just accept it and learn it' whenever anyone asked a question. He also told us not to bother doing the papers from 94 to about 98 because they were very 'abstract' and they don't ask questions like that anymore.

sully-gormo

The papers from 94 to 98 were rock hard and after that they eased up a bit... or so we thought

Funkstard

The old maths course was alot harder. I'm not sure what sort of maths it taught (whether it encouraged relative thinking or whatever), but they had to change the syllabus I think because it was just too hard. Maybe the Irish are just too stupid.

EDIT: The only years we didn't do was '95 and '96, both because we didn't have the time and some of the stuff on it was ridiculous. I did them though and found them mostly alright.

Attractive Nun

NADA wrote:

Thing is it was there in front of you all the time. I'm not talking aboiut you in particular but most people don't know where most of the trigonometric functions come from. If you understand the unit circle you should have understood that question. You probably know tanA= sinA/cosA. So look at 90 degrees on the unit circle. Sin 90= 1 and cos90=0. This means that tanA= 1/0 and therefore you know its undefined. That's the problem. Most people think honours maths is hard where as if they actually learn what happens it will be easier. I know they think it's earier to just learn stuff off but understanding makes that much more easier. OF course it's easier to learn by rote in the short term were as if you understand something you will never forget it.

I fully agree. I've found maths a lot easier since I've started applied maths (my applied maths teacher teaches us the theory behind things), and I feel I have a decent grasp of most of the concepts at this stage. I'm quite annoyed at myself for not getting the limit as tan approaches infinity thing (tan90=undefined is written in the tables!!), but I guess you're just not expecting to think that way generally when doing leaving cert maths.