Just got notice from Builders to take down Satellite Dish

YoYOPowder

I recently tried to get TV into my new Duplex. After little or no deliberations I decided on getting Sky Plus for the recording facility. The Duplex is of the typical type, a terraced row, with a about 10 Duplex apartments on top of ten apartments, hence they are three stories high. It is pole mounted onto the back of the house just above the gutter, exceptionally neat and tidy, cable runs are discreet and tidy also. However after three weeks I received a letter from the builder telling me to take it down immediately as it's in the Lease that I cannot have one. The builders are still onsite as a more conventional apartment block is being built.

Has anybody any experience on this? I know I am not breaking any law with regard planning permission, its very discreet so what is the problem? Do you think the builders will follow up and actually waste time issuing me with legal notice? I just find the whole thing very petty.

On a side note, NTL are now in the area, only as of last week and have signed a contract with the builders to wire all the house. Surely this is against my rights?

Anybody any thoughts or previous experience with builders/management company in this area? Would is stand up in court?

gqma0

This thread might help

http://beaupark.com/viewtopic.php?t=119&highlight=&sid=f0af6bf1e2f33c6b9b527d5056ccf025

Cheers

milltown

Would it stand up in court? Yes, I would imagine it would if it is in the lease that you signed.
Re: NTL contracted to wire each unit. I would be amazed if the internal wiring isn't already in place, possibly with blanks where the TV points will go, and all NTL will do is connect from a common manhole back to their exchange.

I am constantly amazed at the number of developments of the type you describe with a dish on every balcony. It is an eyesore. If you feel you should have the right to choose how your telly signal arrives, I am of the strong opinion that you should have exercised that right before signing a lease that says you cannot have a dish, and bought your home somewhere that offered you that choice.

Mossy Monk

isnt it against EU law to not allow a satellite dish be erected?
OP, i'd tell them to get bent

YoYOPowder

milltown wrote:

Would it stand up in court? Yes, I would imagine it would if it is in the lease that you signed.
Re: NTL contracted to wire each unit. I would be amazed if the internal wiring isn't already in place, possibly with blanks where the TV points will go, and all NTL will do is connect from a common manhole back to their exchange.

I am constantly amazed at the number of developments of the type you describe with a dish on every balcony. It is an eyesore. If you feel you should have the right to choose how your telly signal arrives, I am of the strong opinion that you should have exercised that right before signing a lease that says you cannot have a dish, and bought your home somewhere that offered you that choice.

I didn't realise it was in the lease. I realise the lease is legally binding, but a lease can often go against the law, which may make it not legally binding in some cases, that is how the law evolves. The law states I need planning permission to mount on the front or side, but can mount it on the back. If you want to go down the route of eyesore, that's your opinion, but a 1980 escort is an eyesore, a clothes line is an eyesore, most new apartment blocks are eyesores, long grass in someones garden is an eyesore. If I am not breaking planning laws, then I should be allowed, not just to please other people because they feel like getting sick on sight of a satellite dish. It cost me extra to have this mounted in such a way that it wasn't intrusive to the eye.

BTW, yes NTL was prewired long before hand, but wasn't available until the last week. I moved in at Xmas, but I dont want NTL, I have my reasons, but because of the lease, this may be forced upon me. I my view that is not right.

Bards

There is also a EU Directive on "Unfair terms in contracts" I would imagine that it would come under this...

thos

Have you got a balcony or private area ? What direction is it facing ?

I'm in an apartment, same deal with no satelite dishes allowed. So I installed one of these:
http://www.ddelec.com/digiglobe.htm

Sits on a 90degree bracket on my balcony, looks like a light and gets a Sky feed no problem.

Should be about £149-189 from the UK.

YoYOPowder

gqma0 wrote:

This thread might help

http://beaupark.com/viewtopic.php?t=119&highlight=&sid=f0af6bf1e2f33c6b9b527d5056ccf025

Cheers

Cheers for that GG.

Im looking for something more concrete, but dont think I'll get it. I rang my solicitor, he said he doesn't know of any cases where they actually ended up in court. Right now, I'll be ignoring any letters. If only they were as quick working on my snag list!!

YoYOPowder

thos wrote:

Have you got a balcony or private area ? What direction is it facing ?

I'm in an apartment, same deal with no satelite dishes allowed. So I installed one of these:
http://www.ddelec.com/digiglobe.htm

Sits on a 90degree bracket on my balcony, looks like a light and gets a Sky feed no problem.

Should be about £149-189 from the UK.

That does look good!! If it ever comes to the crunch, could be the answer..

Cheers

Gurgle

YoYOPowder wrote:

it's in the Lease that I cannot have one.

A lease which you presumably signed your agreement to?

SPDUB

YoYOPowder wrote:

BTW, yes NTL was prewired long before hand, but wasn't available until the last week. I moved in at Xmas, but I dont want NTL, I have my reasons, but because of the lease, this may be forced upon me. I my view that is not right.

The fact that they allowed you to move in at Xmas but didn't provide any tv service until last week might be something you can use against them as you could argue along the lines of "what were you suppossed to use for a tv service since you wanted to watch more than RTE,TV3

If they are going to stop you using a dish then they would have had to provide another method from the day you moved in

L1011

I'd tell them where to shove the dish, to be honest. It may be in the contract, but that contract is violating EU law.

If they try to challenge, say you'll go to court to get your entire lease invalidated... hrm, no managment charges

watty

If you haven't signed the said lease or it has changed since you signed what ever you signed then it is irrelevent.

It may be irrelevent anyway.

Ulsterman 1690

If only they were as quick working on my snag list!!

Maybe THEY are in breach of the terms of the lease ?????

If you want to go down the route of eyesore, that's your opinion, but a 1980 escort is an eyesore, a clothes line is an eyesore, most new apartment blocks are eyesores, long grass in someones garden is an eyesore.

Hell some PEOPLE are an eyesore

cast_iron

I'm sure you have signed the lease by now (even without reading it!), so the only way to change it is through the courts.

Remember, you are most likely contracted to sky for a year, so expect an early cancellation fee if you plan to switch to NTL.

The one common thing among your solutions (legal challenge/globe dish/ntl - cancel sky) is MONEY. It's gonna cost you...all because you didn't read a contract for something worth hundreds of thousands of euro!

DMC

Didnt someone who posted here previously try going through the Competition Authority??

Supercell

If I spend a huge amount on an apartment or house like they prices currently are then two words beginning in f and ending in f would be my reply.

Because cable is available is no agument imho, sat quality is far better especially HDTV , and also of course stick a motor on to the reasonably sized (below 1 metre) dish and thousand of channels become available.

Personally don't think dish's look bad on a house anyway so more than a little biased ! . Have heard that its part of EU law that you are perfectly entitled to erect a dish if you own the property with certain size restrictions.

Gurgle

Longfield wrote:

Because cable is available is no agument imho, sat quality is far better especially HDTV , and also of course stick a motor on to the reasonably sized (below 1 metre) dish and thousand of channels become available.

Personally don't think dish's look bad on a house anyway so more than a little biased ! .

Irrelevant.

For whatever reasons, the lease he signed said 'No Satellite Dishes'.
Of course the builders got some great big kickback from NTL to make them the sole TV provider, but:

1. Proove it.
2. Proove its illegal/unconstitutional.

YoYOPowder

Cheers lads, some interesting comments. Somebody mentioned money, and I guess that's what it would boil down to. I did ring my solicitor, as I believe I pay him to read my Contract and point out these things. He said its in all Duplex contracts now. Yes but I don’t buy a Duplex everyday so I wouldn't be familiar with it.

Anyhow, think I'll just hold off and see what happens. The Dish aint coming down without a fight. As I said its in a very discreet location and abides by the law (but not my contract obviously). If they want to be petty enough to make me take it down by a court of law well then I will have no choice. I do understand why they should not be mounted on a conventional apartment block and agree with this, but I don’t think that applies here, nor am I being a hypocrite. Sure, I'll let you all know the outcome if anything transpires.

Just a side note, I actually tried to get NTL in late May and couldn't, not ready just yet they said (tried to because I had mistakenly told Sky it was a three storey building, so they wouldn't do the install, but the back is accessible by the balcony).

watty

Also the management etc should be open to idea of a single communal system dish which can give easily two real satellite feeds to each apartment for two receivers or a PVR, and even four different satellites at small extra cost.

They can only deny a personal dish if they allow that.

NaasMan

Fight Fire with Fire,

Take a look at the lease, what does it say the bulider/management company will do ? Check to see if they are doing it e.g. does it say that they will maintain the green area's etc. If they are not, next time you get a letter from the Builder, send him a letter back setting out all the conditions of the lease that he has not fulfilled, and say that you will consider removing the disk when all other conditions are fulfilled, this could take a year or two.

Galway

Buy a house in the country instead!

Supercell

Galway wrote:

Buy a house in the country instead!

That looks sweet, would love to do something similar myself!

GerardKeating

Longfield wrote:

Have heard that its part of EU law that you are perfectly entitled to erect a dish if you own the property with certain size restrictions.

But he does not own the property, tis a duplux apartment.

The "common" areas are not the property of lease-holder.

el Bastardo

The common areas are usually owned by everyone; i.e. the OP would be part owner of the common areas.

Greenman

Galway wrote:

Buy a house in the country instead!

Or move to Belgium.

or here!!!

Our man in Havana

I would love to see them enforce that lease there!

Gegerty

pff...."It's in your lease". What a load of rubbish. They can force you to sign anything, but they can't force you to stick by it. It's in my management rules that we can't have clothes lines, saellite dishes or extensions. Eh yeah right just try and stop people!! There are extensions, dishes and clothes lines all over the estate. I feel like such an idiot for sticking to the rules and joining their shared dish at an extra €13 p.m. I have to buy my own dish now because sky won't install one for me cause I'm not a new customer. Basically tell them to get stuffed, if my estate is anything to go by then they can't do anything. It's your house, you can do what you like within reason and a satellite dish is well within reason.

Gurgle

Gegerty wrote:

They can force you to sign anything, but they can't force you to stick by it..

What a bloody attitude.
What, was he brought in by the secret police and beaten until he signed the lease?
Was he forced to live in an estate with this rule by the KGB?

dmck

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2006/0601/4152114906RPQANDA_01.html

Gegerty

Gurgle wrote:

What a bloody attitude.
What, was he brought in by the secret police and beaten until he signed the lease?
Was he forced to live in an estate with this rule by the KGB?

I'm sure he was told sign it or bye bye no house. OK he wasn't beaten but speaking from my own experience I was certainly bullied into it. I wasn't going to miss out on my dream house over a stupid contract which I knew at the time was BS and I've been proven right. People are putting up satellites all over the estate and there's not a thing the management company can do about it.

Gurgle

Gegerty wrote:

I wasn't going to miss out on my dream house over a stupid contract

:rolleyes:
Theres no answer to that.
I hope I never do business with you.

Gegerty

Gurgle wrote:

:rolleyes:
Theres no answer to that.
I hope I never do business with you.

Well aren't you just the shrewd business man :rolleyes: The fact that you consider buying your home a business transaction says it all.

watty

OK Gegerty & Gurgle any more of the personal stuff and banning for both of ye.

Keep to the topic.

Where's my whip and padlock?

robert muldoon

My daughter has a house in this development and they dont allow sky dishes,she would love to have sky,What is the legal position.Its in the the lease,but do the management committee have the legal right to put it in in the first place?,there has to be a clear answer on this,yes or no. If its yes then its 'fait accomplis' if no, has anyone ever taken them on legally? need some clear answer on this -thank youi

Gegerty

planning permission

Generally, you will not need planning permission for:

A satellite dish (up to one metre across the below the top of the roof) at the back or side of the house (a dish on the front needs planning permission). Only one dish may be erected on a house.

Sky dishes are under 1m in diameter.

Management companies are not a legal entity. They cannot just make up their own laws. They do make up their own rules thats for sure but at the end of the day it comes down to what the law allows, not what they allow.

Having said that nobody want to piss off their neighbours. Sky do provide a communal dish system, where there is just one dish for many houses (exactly how many I don't know). This could be a nice compromise for the management companies.

Edit: By communal dish I do not mean Sky Conway who charge an extra €13 for the priviledge of using their dish. Sky do the same thing only for no extra cost.

mjsmyth

You say your daughter has a house, does she have a back garden?

The reason I ask is that I mounted an 80cm dish 1.5m off the ground on my own house. I put it there for ease of access (I have a motor which sometimes goes crazy).

If she is luck enough and can get clear line of site, maybe the dish could be mounted low down on the house or on a pole in the back garden. I don't know where that stands with the lease, but hey, if they can't see it...........

MJ

L1011

Gegerty wrote:

Having said that nobody want to piss off their neighbours. Sky do provide a communal dish system, where there is just one dish for many houses (exactly how many I don't know). This could be a nice compromise for the management companies.

In theory, infinite, but in reality, more like every house within 40M of the dish or so. Theres only so many times you can re-amplify the signal for cable loss...

Gilgamesh

tbh, I am surprised that no on ebrought this up, but have you tried talking to your landlord about it, I mean first of all it IS his property and as with penthouses (as in my case) the roof outside belongs to the unit he purchased, you cannot limit someone's usage of their own property by general rulings like that.

In my case the lease actually had a loophole as it was generalised in the estate, saying that no dishes and **** are allowed to be mounted on the walls or balcony, no mention of the roof.

after this went through the management and my landlord backed me up, (is a great guy) they shut up and never heard a thing again from them.

the other thing my LL said, was that as they cannot provide the services I require, I am legally entitled to look for alternatives, which I did.

after living in my place for over a year now, the entire estate hasn't even got Digital cable!!! hense I got a Sat Dish, and tod the cable guy to have a nice day and....


btw. as my landlord was such a big player in the estate, he got together with some of the other ones, and forced the construction company to remove the Management company and get a new on in, though that was quite cool.

magpie

a clothes line is an eyesore

This is why most management companies forbid you to hang washing out your window as well. The whole purpose is to stop your brand new apartment complex from looking like a ghetto within 2 weeks with every dib-dab putting up sky dishes on the outside of their gaffs.

There are extensions, dishes and clothes lines all over the estate.

Sounds lovely

watty

Many "apartments" are really tenements in disguise. The deterioation in 5 years is horricif

slave1

bit of a war over this in Athlone at present where the town council have started sending out letters for folk to remove the dishes as they have not applied for - full!! - planning permission, they've started on new estates but by the looks of things will be going further afield

digiking

thats outragous
i'm from kerry but i know althlone well - all my relations live there and i've done an IT install in a school up there as well - if there sending out letters about planning permission they have plenty to send out...

the town is covered in dishes as is any other town in the country (Poor Cable Service) - i suppose its all to do with the athlone redevelopment thing thats going on where the royal hotel used to be

Digiking

L1011

Do said council realise that rear and side mounted (single) dishes don't need ANY planning permission?

cast_iron

Slave1 doesn't say if it just ones mounted on the front of houses or not, so i would assume it the ones on front of houses. These are popping up alot more these days, and in my opinion are a disgrace. All councils should clamp down on it.

I'm sure the councils are aware of the law.

Slave1also seems suprised "full" planning permission is needed. What other type could apply?

digiking

in my opinion the councils should tackle sky about this issue and tell them to get their act together and get the dishes installed in more descrete places.

its not as if sky are losing money or anything by putting them on the rear of houses

thats just my opinion
Digiking

L1011

You'd be surprised, Kildare County Council once had some ****e in my local paper claiming ALL dishes needed planning permission. Although they weren't sending letters to people about it. If you want to see disgraceful front-mounted dishes, however, you just need to look at Maynooth....

As goes getting FPP - in many territories you need a permit (50 quid or so, ten minutes) for stuff like dishes and antennae, not planning permission (complex and long winded process)

L1011

digiking wrote:

in my opinion the councils should tackle sky about this issue and tell them to get their act together and get the dishes installed in more descrete places.

its not as if sky are losing money or anything by putting them on the rear of houses

thats just my opinion
Digiking

If a dish works on the front of your house, its not going to work on the back... all the satellites are south!

Also, a T/K bracketed standoff-mount + strong mast is a lot more expensive than a J-clamp, which is the difference between mounting to see over the roof on the back of a house and mounting on the front. However, on half the houses that have them on the front, they can go on the side. And for most of the rest it can go on the back garden wall.

cast_iron

MYOB wrote:

As goes getting FPP - in many territories you need a permit (50 quid or so, ten minutes) for stuff like dishes and antennae, not planning permission (complex and long winded process)

By territories, i'm guessing you mean outside Ireland.
Personally i wouldn't consider this satisfactory - if it takes only 10 mins, then the site isn't even viewed!
But yes, the fact you need planning permission for some dishes in this country is a little OTT.

MYOB wrote:

However, on half the houses that have them on the front, they can go on the side. And for most of the rest it can go on the back garden wall.

It usually boils down to the laziness of the installer and the apathy of the resident.

digiking

installers should only put dish on the front of your house if its the last feasable location to install it...

watty

MYOB wrote:

If a dish works on the front of your house, its not going to work on the back... all the satellites are south!

Most roofs allow a dish at gutter height to "see" the satellite


AFASIK only a dish over 90cm needs permission if not above the chimney or front of house.

The planning in relation to a dish NOT mounted on a house isn't clear. Though I imagine a 10m dish on back lawn might warrent a visit...