C.J. Haughey dead

mountainyman

The Corinthian wrote:

...And if you don’t like it, why don’t you go after the guys who allegedly covered up for him rather, seeing they can still be prosecuted? I’m sure they’d prefer you to go after a corpse instead and consider the matter closed.

I'm sure you're right tC. It will 'all come out' about CjH now. Probably involving businessmen, lawyers, accountants who are also dead. Bertram will talk about how shocked he is and stress how different things are now.

He will get a state funeral. He is entitled to one. Better Haughey selling the country for 18 million than Don Lydon selling for 12 grand.

Best of all to be sutherland who sold your constitutional rights for 70 million (and he was a Fine Gaeller)

MM

Mr.Nice Guy

Haughey was a gangster. It's amazing the historical revisionist horsesh*t that we are being subjected to today.

Fianna Fáil started this revisionist agenda at their Ard Fheis earlier this year and now Ahern is stepping it up a gear after the man's passing. It's disgusting.

I sympathise with the man's family but I don't believe Haughey is deserving of a state funeral.

DublinWriter

dixiefly wrote:

I dont think he should.
I am not saying that he did not do good or a service to the country but it's just the fact the he took bribes while in the highest office in the land, failed to declare his income to the taxman and cheated on his wife for many years.

Woah...fair enough on the first few points, but bringing up the fact that he cheated on his wife??? Isn't that a bit neocon 'God bless family values' of you?

Victor

Ironic that he gets a nice funeral when he denied the IHS a trustfund to care for haemophiliacs dieing from AIDS.

Is a state funeral a matter of law or merely protocol?

DublinWriter wrote:

Woah...fair enough on the first few points, but bringing up the fact that he cheated on his wife??? Isn't that a bit neocon 'God bless family values' of you?

Actually no. While one could argue that a person in power who cheats in his personal life, may also cheat in his political life, but I'm not going to rely on that.

Haughey took it upon himself to comment and judge other peoples relationship, so I'm sorry, he's fair game.

Dirk Gently

I reckon a little clause that criminal activity forfeits your right to a state funeral regardless of position held wouldn't go a miss. The honour of State funerals should be reserved for people who are worthy role models and not people who are examples of selfish and dishonest actions.

Wheely

As was already pointed out clown-bag CJ was never found guilty on any criminal charges of anything so regardless of you proposed clause, his state fyuneral would nevertheless be a certainty. I was not a fan of the man, his character or the vast majority of his actions. But he was a former Taoiseach of this country, elected by the people to repreesent them and his flaws fell far short of those of Hitler and the likes. I know a lot of people who to this day believe in the greatness of Charles J Haughey, many of whom would be extremely perturbed about the possibility of him NOT receiving a State funeral. I think he should get one. Also listing his infidelity as "just one area of his life where he was a cheat and a liar" does not make it relevant to whether or not he deserves a State funeral. Its completely irrelevant whatever the context. Nixon never cheated....maybe that was the deciding factor in whether or not to allow him a State funeral???:D

Chucky

Does the purpose of this thread stir anger in anyone as it does so in me? Seriously, why did you start this thread - Are you openly trying to mock a dead man? What would his family think if they were reading this.

Mr.Nice Guy

Wheely wrote:

But he was a former Taoiseach of this country, elected by the people to repreesent them and his flaws fell far short of those of Hitler and the likes.

Is that the measuring stick for determing whether one gets a state funeral?

"Hey give him a State funeral."

"But why?"

"Cos he wasn't as bad as Hitler."

Gimme a break. The guy was a crook. The dogs on the street know that.

Wheely wrote:

I know a lot of people who to this day believe in the greatness of Charles J Haughey, many of whom would be extremely perturbed about the possibility of him NOT receiving a State funeral.

Anyone who believes in "the greatness of Charles J Haughey" shouldn't be taken seriously.

Chucky wrote:

Does the purpose of this thread stir anger in anyone as it does so in me? Seriously, why did you start this thread - Are you openly trying to mock a dead man? What would his family think if they were reading this?

What are you talking about? The thread asks a very relevant question - why should a national disgrace who was taking backhanders when people in this country were struggling to make ends meet be given a State funeral? Anyone?

Victor

Chucky wrote:

Are you openly trying to mock a dead man?

Not so much to mock, but to show derision to those that would follow in his footsteps.

Chucky wrote:

What would his family think if they were reading this.

"We shouldn't really be using boards.ie while planning the funeral".

judybaby

Chucky wrote:

Does the purpose of this thread stir anger in anyone as it does so in me? Seriously, why did you start this thread - Are you openly trying to mock a dead man? What would his family think if they were reading this.

Mock a dead man?
Didn't he make a mockery of the whole of Ireland?
Charlie Haughey should not be given a state funeral.

Dirk Gently

Wheely wrote:

As was already pointed out clown-bag CJ was never found guilty on any criminal charges of anything so regardless of you proposed clause, his state fyuneral would nevertheless be a certainty.

No doubt a greater effort to bring to justice people of high office would be welcome too. Transparency and openness needs to become more a part of political life. If the CAB bureau can make suspected criminals prove their wealth and repossess their assets into the possession of the state then the same methods should be applied to Charlie’s assets.

If someone is living beyond their means then they must be made prove how they are managing to do so. A better application of the law would ensure my little clause would go along way to prevent future criminals receiving a state send off. If C.J. himself had any sense of decency then he would have made clear that he didn't expect a state send off when he finally croaked it, but if he done that he wouldn't be our beloved C.J. would he.

Philistine

The prosperity this country currently enjoys is in spite of, rather than because of the "tough" decisions haughy made during the 80's. A state funeral is an insult to all those who suffered in so many ways because of the cutbacks.

Chucky

judybaby wrote:

Mock a dead man?
Didn't he make a mockery of the whole of Ireland?
Charlie Haughey should not be given a state funeral.

You're making a mockery of yourself right now - Showing your immorals.

judybaby

Chucky wrote:

You're making a mockery of yourself right now - Showing your immorals.

Ouch! Still stand by my words....and thankfully I can sleep soundly at night....nothing on my conscience!

WillieDH

The reason we have crap traffic / mad house prices is because of the likes of haughey, Liam Lalor, Michael Lowry etc. who sold our national assets for their own and the gain of their cronies.

My old man and his peers during the seventies and early eighties were burdened by PAYE enforced by haughey and Co. whilst he flitted off to Paris buying Charvez shirts at a weeks wages a pop, quaffing chateau nuf de pap, and riding Terri Keane.

If we were france we would have had another revolution and cropped his head off.

Hope he rots in hell, sooner his kind are all dead the better.

WillieDH

Sure isn't it an irish tradition to only speak good of dead, didn't Dev himself send condolonces to the german embassy when he learned that hitler had died.

Fianna Fail, it could only happen in IRELAND !!!

Mr.Nice Guy

This man, Michael O'Leary, was one of the great Irish politicians of modern times. He won't get any of the honours Haughey will even though he was twice the politician Haughey was.

The corrupt honour their own while the real heroes go unrecognised.

Mr.Nice Guy

WillieDH wrote:

Sure isn't it an irish tradition to only speak good of dead, didn't Dev himself send condolonces to the german embassy when he learned that hitler had died.

This old chestnut again. That wasn't done because Dev felt bad about Hitler dying, it was done as a sign of respect to the German Ambassador to Ireland Edouard Hempel.

Yes it was a dumb move but it wasn't an example of de Valera forgiving Hitler for his crimes.

WillieDH

I wouldn't be a labour supporter but yes I agree, an honest man.

WillieDH

Ah yes but isn't it a great one to drag out at times like this !!!

Victor

constitutionus wrote:

ok the rossport five. they say a week is a long time in politics, kenny disappeared for two months on this issue and then came out feigning support fro em. then it came out he orderd his brother to vote through the pipeline in the countly councill sitting on the issue . that murky enough for you?

I've only met Kenny once and he was quite clear in two things (a) the pipeline should go ahead (b) the promoter should get their act together.

constitutionus

Victor wrote:

I've only met Kenny once and he was quite clear in two things (a) the pipeline should go ahead (b) the promoter should get their act together.

sorry i cant reply to this. the mods say it'll derail the thread

Avns1s

I really don't know what Enda Kenny's attitude is towards the Shell pipeline or the FG attitude towards it, for that matter.

I will say though, that Kenny's approach today as stated by the OP is very mature, considerate, human, sympatethic and appropriate for the day that it is. There will be plenty of days ahead for recriminations and mudslinging. I never was a fan of CJH. But I would be quick to realise that he was human and that he is a father, husband and so on. I certainly wouldn't think highly of anyone who would attack the family by having a go at his reputation at this time. There will be plenty of time and plenty of opportunity for that when the grieving is over.

RIP CJH

bmaxi

mind you it should pass by Dublin Castle en route

We could have a special session of the Mahon tribunal and finally get the f****er to appear. Good riddance.

Widgeon

I heard John Watters say Charie Haughey was the greatest politician ever with the exception of De Velera. He also said that politics is all about excitement and that Haughey provided plenty of that.
I cannot agree with any of those sentiments but I hope he is at rest now.

dixiefly

Chucky wrote:

Does the purpose of this thread stir anger in anyone as it does so in me? Seriously, why did you start this thread - Are you openly trying to mock a dead man? What would his family think if they were reading this.

If you dont believe in free and open discussion of current and relevant topics why dont you take yourself off to another website.
I see plenty of other posters understand the post.

dixiefly

dixiefly wrote:

If you dont believe in free and open discussion of current and relevant topics why dont you take yourself off to another website.
I see plenty of other posters understand the post.

I'd rather you didnt tell other posters here whether they should be posting here or not.
Just as I'd prefer for chucky not to be doing likewise.
It would be preferable to comment on the post and not direct attention to the poster.
We have a charter that explicitly forbids that.

At this stage,I'm going to merge all the open Haughey threads.

As for the man himself,All I have to say is RIP.

dixiefly

Earthman wrote:

I'd rather you didnt tell other posters here whether they should be posting here or not.
Just as I'd prefer for chucky not to be doing likewise.
It would be preferable to comment on the post and not direct attention to the poster.
We have a charter that explicitly forbids that.

At this stage,I'm going to merge all the open Haughey threads.

As for the man himself,All I have to say is RIP.

The only reason I made that comment was in response to his in the first place. He questioned the need for a thread and I rightly pointed out that he need not be there. These things happen in discussion sites across the web. People are and should be allowed point out this sort of thing.

I would agree with the RIP sentiment. I didnt like the man but anyone that believes that he did no good for the country would be mistaken. It is just that his plusses are outweighed by the minuses.

classicsounds

A Sad day for Ireland.

With the death of Irelands foremost political leader . We as a nation should be grief stricken. This man was man before his time He served our country with great gusto. We are all aware of his lifestyle and the wheeling and dealing that went on in 80's Ireland. And CJ's role in all of it. But lets not forget what Charlie has done for us. We would not have the celtic tiger only for his vision of social partnership. All the good he carried of for the O.A.P.'s of our land like the free travel, medical cards and free TV licience.

He will be sadly missed

optiplexgx270

Yipee