Is the Leaving Cert (so far) FAIR this year?

Assmaster_Kronk

JC 2K3 wrote:

But if you need to spend €5000 for motivation to study then how are you going to cope in the real world outside school??

we're all safe in the knowledge that we will never have to tackle such a pointless task as the leaving again:D from here on in most people will be studying things they are actually interested in, so essentialy whatever way you studied for the leaving has no relevance in the 'real world':p

ThrownAway

Looking back [since I'm finished now ] everything was fair except

The German letter and tape test
The keys in Biology
The catalouge question in Art
The last poetry question in Irish

Kovik

Rockerette wrote:

what????

oh god, heaven forbid they should ask "lateral" questions that might actual require people to use their own heads, and not just re-quote notes.

and if you were so good and so prepared for history as you say you were, you woulda been fine..

The difficulty being that they ask "lateral" questions while the syllabus layout and manner of teaching is decidedly not so. It's like handing somebody an orange and saying "enjoy your new cat." In addition, to ask such questions without notifying teachers and students that they've fundamentally altered the requirements of the courses and manner in which they'd be assessed is plainly stupid. In the case of history, they directly contradicted all advise given to students and teachers during the many inservice days this year. Really, really inane.

As for my own response to history, I was very well prepared... until they decided to changed the layout of the paper and eliminate 75% of what I'd covered. I'm sure I did alright but my A1 is looking dodgy.

DemonOfTheFall

Kovik wrote:

The difficulty being that they ask "lateral" questions while the syllabus layout and manner of teaching is decidedly not so. It's like handing somebody an orange and saying "enjoy your new cat." In addition, to ask such questions without notifying teachers and students that they've fundamentally altered the requirements of the courses and manner in which they'd be assessed is plainly stupid. In the case of history, they directly contradicted all advise given to students and teachers during the many inservice days this year. Really, really inane.
As for my own response to history, I was very well prepared... until they decided to changed the layout of the paper and eliminate 75% of what I'd covered. I'm sure I did alright but my A1 is looking dodgy.

Well put!

I have no problem at all with more lateral questions and less predictable rote-learned questions.

Just it would have been nice of them to give advance warning that they were going to be throwing a few curve balls our way (Maths I'm looking at you).

Kovik

Yeah, I'd love for a system to be put in place where lateral thinking and natural ability with subjects is encouraged. But the present system will never function in that way, no matter how the layout of exam papers is altered.

Brods

the chief exaimers report for 2005 honours maths said explicitly to "expect the unexpected", dont know how much clearier they cud be, other than to say study all the weird stuff especially the inverse tan graph!

JC 2K3

Brods wrote:

the chief exaimers report for 2005 honours maths said explicitly to "expect the unexpected", dont know how much clearier they cud be, other than to say study all the weird stuff especially the inverse tan graph!

I'm shocked at people thinking the graph was difficult, the fact it uses inverse tan is irrelevant(unless after 6 years you don't know how to use inverse tan on your calculator or how to use the maths tables), plug the values for x into the function to get the y values, graph it, draw the asymtopes, smile and be happy that you got such an easy question. Part (iv) was slightly challenging, but play around with putting a few different values for k into the equation on your caluculator and the answer becomes pretty obvious...

Brods

it kinda pisses me off however that a 5th year is telling us what we SHOULD have done... nothing against the advice, but it seems a bit patronising, jk u dont really understand what the leaving cert is like... i pannicked the sh't out of that paper and got really screwed up.. i didnt even try q5 cos i didnt like the look of it, looked at it afterwards and i cuda made a good stab at it. theres no luxury of messing around on ur calculator as u will prob find out necxt yr (esp. when u mess up 1 (a)... )

Garret

i thought maths 2 was tricky but not deserving of all this kerfuffle ( i love that word)

JC 2K3

Brods wrote:

it kinda pisses me off however that a 5th year is telling us what we SHOULD have done... nothing against the advice, but it seems a bit patronising, jk u dont really understand what the leaving cert is like... i pannicked the sh't out of that paper and got really screwed up.. i didnt even try q5 cos i didnt like the look of it, looked at it afterwards and i cuda made a good stab at it. theres no luxury of messing around on ur calculator as u will prob find out necxt yr (esp. when u mess up 1 (a)... )

Sorry, I guess I was a bit patronising. But I mean there was absolutely nothing wrong with Q5, some teachers etc. are saying stuff like it wasn't on the syllabus which is complete bollocks IMO.

Brods

well, to put asymptotes on paper 2 in a trig q is unheard of,and then to put sequences and series in q 7 (which i havent heard people complaining about, strangely) is a bit gay...

but im bitter cos i got wrapped up in the part a's, making stupid mistakes in 4 out of 7q's, leaving little to no time for all the "lateral thinking" that was required for part c's, (more like trying to remember all the stuff i'd forgotten, purposefully after paper!)

Faerie

Brods wrote:

it kinda pisses me off however that a 5th year is telling us what we SHOULD have done... nothing against the advice, but it seems a bit patronising, jk u dont really understand what the leaving cert is like... i pannicked the sh't out of that paper and got really screwed up.. i didnt even try q5 cos i didnt like the look of it, looked at it afterwards and i cuda made a good stab at it. theres no luxury of messing around on ur calculator as u will prob find out necxt yr (esp. when u mess up 1 (a)... )

I totally agree. It's all great to be able to stand outside but the leaving cert puts students under enough pressure as it is. When you're really nervous and you see something on the paper that you've never seen before (I don't care if it's in the book, my teacher certainly never taught it to us) it freaks (most) people out. I'm an A1 maths student and I panicked and 2 and a half hours isn't enough time to get over the panic and think logically! And it's not like it's just me; my whole Maths class were thrown by the questions because our teacher has been telling us to avoid really abstract questions and completely ignore questions before about 98.
I'm probably repeating myself from earlier in the thread but I'm pissed off!!

DonaldDuck

JC 2K3 wrote:

Sorry, I guess I was a bit patronising. But I mean there was absolutely nothing wrong with Q5, some teachers etc. are saying stuff like it wasn't on the syllabus which is complete bollocks IMO.

The thing is,thats all fine and handy to say when youre in fifth year.When you have a lot mroe of the course learnt,and youre going back to revise trig.I doubt many people in the country even looked at the tan graph,im pretty sure its not even in my book

Nichololas

It's times like these that I love choosing to do Q6, 7 and 9 instead of 4, 5 and 8. Was looking for a C3 and I think I got a C1 comfortably.

Brods

and thats exactly why no one likes u, u smug little bastard!!

smemon

look. as much as i dislike some of my teachers (oh, my ex teachers now ), none of them failed to complete the courses and covered every single aspect of them.

had i done everything they said and kept up with homework and done exam questions on my own, id come out with 7 A1's, ive no doubt about that.

my school is by no means perfect so im sure everyone else has also received the full courses.

sometimes you just have to hold you hands up and say "im not good enough". i was pinned back by a few questions which will inevitably impact on my results but i say "it's my fault, i chose to take short-cuts and i accept full responsibility for doing so, i'll suffer the consequences".

im not going to blame the paper or teachers or school. i can't. i'm to blame. people must stand up and take responsibility for their own failures.

Brods

u want a blue peter badge?

smemon

Brods wrote:

u want a blue peter badge?

i want people to admit they're at fault and not somebody else.

you can't go through life blaming other people and other things. in order to learn and become a better person you must hurt yourself and learn from mistakes.

Brods

so ur advising us to hurt ourselves... sound advice!!

ah sure, wasnt i only stirring the sh'te!!

i just dont think that this is something ppl will want to learn big life lessons from, its a fairly life changing experience to fail maths. Nor should they have to- we'r made study maths.
The Dept. shudn't be preaching life's lessons to us (if thats what theyr doing) in a mandatory subject. its unfair.
but it matters little to me personally at this stage, its done, i think ill get on with the rest of my exams, and then my life. porbably wont think about that paper again til i get my results.

smemon

Brods wrote:

its a fairly life changing experience to fail maths.

it's a kick up the backside, just what a few people need.

anyone who assumes predicted questions will come up and kicks up a tantrum when they don't - deserve to fail. that's no way to treat an exam you want to pass.

you want to pass an exam, you cover your @ss and learn the minimum you need to know. risk management - reduce the risks so that in the worst case scenario, you'll still be able to survive i.e. pass.

if 90% of students in your class pass a subject and you don't, there's only 1 person to blame imo.

JC 2K3

DonaldDuck wrote:

The thing is,thats all fine and handy to say when youre in fifth year.When you have a lot mroe of the course learnt,and youre going back to revise trig.I doubt many people in the country even looked at the tan graph,im pretty sure its not even in my book

Well my teacher moves quite fast, we've 11/12 chapters of Texts and Tests 4 done. Who cares if the "tan graph" wasn't specifically in your book. What's hard about getting coordinates from a function and drawing graphs?

DonaldDuck

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well my teacher moves quite fast, we've 11/12 chapters of Texts and Tests 4 done. Who cares if the "tan graph" wasn't specifically in your book. What's hard about getting coordinates from a function and drawing graphs?

Using trignomatry methods,the values for the "-" numbers would be taken from pie,or 2pie,.Not just have a - sign stuck beside them.

JC 2K3

DonaldDuck wrote:

Using trignomatry methods,the values for the "-" numbers would be taken from pie,or 2pie,.Not just have a - sign stuck beside them.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean...

you mean the way tan(-pi/6) = tan(11pi/6) ?

Funkstard

smemon wrote:

it's a kick up the backside, just what a few people need.

anyone who assumes predicted questions will come up and kicks up a tantrum when they don't - deserve to fail. that's no way to treat an exam you want to pass.

you want to pass an exam, you cover your @ss and learn the minimum you need to know. risk management - reduce the risks so that in the worst case scenario, you'll still be able to survive i.e. pass.

if 90% of students in your class pass a subject and you don't, there's only 1 person to blame imo.

Once again you're completely ignorant to the whole furore over the maths exam. If they want to ask us more lateral & independant thinking questions that's fine, but they have to have it one the course too so we can know what's going on. Anyone who does honours maths knows there are no 'predicted questions'. Obviously there are patterns and similarities, but the view you seem to have is that we went in learning our Institute notes and went mad when what we were told to learn didn't come up. You couldn't be more wrong.

DonaldDuck

JC 2K3 wrote:

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean...

you mean the way tan(-pi/6) = tan(11pi/6) ?

Yep,it could also be 5pi/6 . Which in turn gives you completly wrong graphs

smemon

Funkstard wrote:

Once again you're completely ignorant to the whole furore over the maths exam. If they want to ask us more lateral & independant thinking questions that's fine, but they have to have it one the course too so we can know what's going on. Anyone who does honours maths knows there are no 'predicted questions'. Obviously there are patterns and similarities, but the view you seem to have is that we went in learning our Institute notes and went mad when what we were told to learn didn't come up. You couldn't be more wrong.

im saying had you learnt the syllabus, you'd have no complaints.

if you want an A1 in something, you need to work for it, no short-cuts no hoping for the best. you go in prepared for every question and have options if you get a sticky question.

it's simple. for years ive listened to people complain about maths exams. it does my nut in. what do you expect on the day? palm trees to sway in the summer sea breeze and the sun's rays beaming down from a clear blue sky whilst you sip your ice-cube filled glass of diet coke???

Funkstard

smemon wrote:

im saying had you learnt the syllabus, you'd have no complaints.

if you want an A1 in something, you need to work for it, no short-cuts no hoping for the best. you go in prepared for every question and have options if you get a sticky question.

it's simple. for years ive listened to people complain about maths exams. it does my nut in. what do you expect on the day? palm trees to sway in the summer sea breeze and the sun's rays beaming down from a clear blue sky whilst you sip your ice-cube filled glass of diet coke???

Oh thats the study I did was it? What about doing every single past question back to the 1994 sample paper twice (including 1995 & 96, two insane years in which the majortiy of the stuff hasn't been seen since), doing every revision exercise for each chapter, not just knowing but understanding every single thing on the course that was either in the book or had come up in past papers. Don't ****e on to me that I didn't 'know the syllabus'

smemon

Funkstard wrote:

Oh thats the study I did was it? What about doing every single past question back to the 1994 sample paper twice (including 1995 & 96, two insane years in which the majortiy of the stuff hasn't been seen since), doing every revision exercise for each chapter, not just knowing but understanding every single thing on the course that was either in the book or had come up in past papers. Don't ****e on to me that I didn't 'know the syllabus'

you could do a million questions in any subject and still not come out with an A. doing a whole pile of work doesnt automatically guarantee you a decent grade.

in general if you work hard, you'll be rewarded. but thats not alway the case. sometimes you need a touch of class, a bit of magic. and nobody can teach you that.

you assumed you would do well, you expected questions to be there. that's where you mistake lies, you weren't prepared for out of the ordinary questions.

Funkstard

smemon wrote:

you could do a million questions in any subject and still not come out with an A. doing a whole pile of work doesnt automatically guarantee you a decent grade.

in general if you work hard, you'll be rewarded. but thats not alway the case. sometimes you need a touch of class, a bit of magic. and nobody can teach you that.

you assumed you would do well, you expected questions to be there. that's where you mistake lies, you weren't prepared for out of the ordinary questions.

Oh, I thought it was because I didn't know the syllabus well? My argument isn't that I should be getting an A1 because of the work I put in, it's that you seem to think that we all went in there with a completely linear attitude, unable to work around the problems. We were given stuff that was beyond 'out of the ordinary', it was beyond anything we could have known or been expected to know.

Some of the 'unexpected' questions I have no problem with by the way, and were a good test of our minds, eg. the pyramid question. Some of the other stuff was just ridiculous though. I'd love to see how well you'd react in such a situation, it's all well and good spouting out generalisations

smemon

Funkstard wrote:

I'd love to see how well you'd react in such a situation, it's all well and good spouting out generalisations

we'll i wouldnt let such a situation arise. tbh i don't like maths and couldnt be bothered spending time on it so i did ordinary. Paper 1 was trickier than expected, a few new things but i didnt care, what am i going to to about it? what CAN i do about it?

Answer; NOTHING only sit and complain and mouth off about how i was hard done by. get on with it, you can't change the paper now or influence your corrector...

if the state examination commissn come out and say "yes, it was too tough, we're sorry" then i'll eat my words. but that probably won't happen as reality is, it was in line with the syllabus and there are people who will still get A1's.

in football, you could dominate the match, have 20+ shots on goal, 70% possession and still lose due to 1 mistake or area you've never focused on i.e. a free kick.

Bang, 1-0, game over. even though you deserve to win or draw, you end up with nothing. doesnt usually happen, and it's unlucky if it does. but thats life.