Garda Following you.

Stark

Can you cite me an example of where a provisional driver appeared in court charged with driving unaccompanied and only driving unaccompanied?

Anan1

Stark wrote:

Can you cite me an example of where a provisional driver appeared in court charged with driving unaccompanied and only driving unaccompanied?

I don't have that kind of information to hand. This is why I'm asking you how you know that the case would be thrown out?

Stark

Because I've heard of many cases where that has happened, but I've never heard of a case where it made it to court. Not without some other charge like dangerous driving, driving drunk etc.

Anan1

Stark wrote:

Because I've heard of many cases where that has happened, but I've never heard of a case where it made it to court. Not without some other charge like dangerous driving, driving drunk etc.

With the greatest of respect, I don't see how the fact that you've never heard of such a case is proof that a judge would throw it out.

andrew_ireland

You may find cases you're interested in here

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/PageCurrentWebLookUpTopNav/Home

punter281

Ok let me get this straight...

The Gardai pulled you over (something which they might do 20 times randomly in a shift), asked you if you had been drinking. Asked you another couple of questions to see if you were speaking coherently and probably to try and detect a smell of alcohol off your breath.


Cop on man! They NEVER stop cars randomly except at checkpoints.:mad:

So they were out on patrol detecting drink drivers, something which everybody in the country wants the gardai to be doing especially at 1am at night. They also checked your car to see if it was roadworthy. ok, brilliant model gardai if you ask me. Thats what they get paid for.

YES .... that's what they get paid for but not what they do, every single night they all go into town to scab free Newspapers. It is common knowledge that practically every car on duty in Dublin engages in this behaviour almost every night.


You then demanded to be breathalysed, something which they cannot do unless
1. they suspect you have consumed alcohol
2. you have been involved in an accident
3. you have committed an offence under the Road Traffic Act

I dont see what the problem is.

The problem is more likely to be that they have a problem with successful young people driving nicer cars than theirs


Without random traffic stops no drink dirvers would ever be caught, no firearms would be recovered, no drugs would be detected.

As for following you home they probably continued driving around their district constantly until 6am stopping cars, intercepting criminals/burglars who come out at night.

No matter what the gardai do nowadays they are wrong.

Count the Garda cars visiting The Irish Times or The Independent every night and see for yourself. This practice has been going on for decades!

Those four gardai should have stayed in the station playing snooker by the sounds of things.

They can't cadge freebies if they stay in the station!

Big Nelly

Stark wrote:

Can you cite me an example of where a provisional driver appeared in court charged with driving unaccompanied and only driving unaccompanied?

There was an example, think it was Mayo, Learner driver on Daddy insurance in Daddy cars went flying out of town. Overtook a tractor or something on a single white line. Garda pulled him.

When it went to court not only was his license revoked but his fathers as well, more or less it was the father duty because it was his car/insurance to make sure the prov license driver had a ull license driver with him. Just one case I have heard about! it was a few years ago now

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

John R wrote:

If Dublin Bus can afford to put 6 cameras in all of their 1100 buses and justify it through a reduction in false insurance claims there is FA reason why the police cannot justify cameras in every car on traffic duty if not their entire fleet. The money saved on court cases alone would pay for it, people faced with video evidence will be far less likely to contest a case.

problem with that is the guards will also be under the eye of the camera...
and seeing some of the carry on they get up to, they have more to hide than the public.

Lex Luthor

you sure they were guards? Just kidding...;)

honestly though, my missus says she would never stop for an unmarked car with a blue flashing light if she was on her own.

were these garda just out of school?

Stark

Big Nelly wrote:

There was an example, think it was Mayo, Learner driver on Daddy insurance in Daddy cars went flying out of town. Overtook a tractor or something on a single white line. Garda pulled him.

When it went to court not only was his license revoked but his fathers as well, more or less it was the father duty because it was his car/insurance to make sure the prov license driver had a ull license driver with him. Just one case I have heard about! it was a few years ago now

Yes, but he had committed two offences. Driving unaccompanied and dangerous driving. What I was saying was that the system is generally not going to bother itself when driving unaccompanied is the sole offence.

Anan1

Stark wrote:

What I was saying was that the system is generally not going to bother itself when driving unaccompanied is the sole offence.

The closest you have come to backing this statement up, however, is to state that you have never heard of such a case. I've been asking you for some time now how you know that a judge would throw such a case out, and you haven't yet answered me.

cargrouch

Punter281 - are you the original posters alter ego? A tip - practise using quote tags, or else when you make counterpoints to someone's argument it will just look like a schizophrenic mess.

OP, you drive a modified civic. Does it have a loud exhaust? If so, are you surprised it caught the attention of gardai? Does it have a bodykit (which generally serves little purpose except to make the car look more aggressive)? If so, are you surprised it caught the attention of gardai? If you sell it will you be billing it as a "real head-turner" like all the other modified jap cars? If so, are you surprised it caught the attention of gardai?
You can't just turn off the attention it gets outside MacDonalds when you see the guards!

Type Honda Civic stolen into google. It appears to be the most stolen car worldwide! If yours went missing would you thank the guards if they found it via one of these checks or would you still be shouting "prejudice"?

deputydugs

kbannon wrote:

How could a cars fog lights blind you when the car is 2 inches from your bumper?
Headlamps OK but fog lights?

VERY TRUE

That and we dont have fog lamps on our cars, u have lied online about fog lamps up your **** So what are be to say abt the rest of your story, I am sure you got stopped but is your car standing out from the crowd sir

cyrusdvirus

Been driving about 9 years now, 8 on a full licence. I do, on average 40K per annum and have had 2 bad experiences.

The first was at the end of January a good few years back, was going down to Waterford from Dublin after college, had a call in Waterford first thing, and the last little village before Waterford, can't remember the name of it, but it was around 11.30 on a cold rainy windy night, which probably explains the Garda's bad mood but I thought he was a bit ott. My insurance is up at the end of January, new cover begins 1st of Feb.
So anyway, i had paid my premium and got my new insurance cert and disc/formy thing you display. But i put the new one ( valid from midnight that night) in in front of the one which expired at midnight, and the gard was doing a checkpoint outside the pub in the town. When he saw the incorrect insurance form he asked me to step out of the car and pointed it out to me. I apologised, and showed him the correct one, cos it was still in the holder. Now all that's fair enough, he's just doing his job, but what happened next annoyed me a bit. He tells me that he should take my car off me and stuff cos I'm not displaying the correct insurance????

second time was last year. I was on my way to Drogheda on the M1. I'm in the outside lane cos i was overtaking some traffic. A 40footer goes to overtake another truck in front of me so I slowed down a bit cos he was only doing about 90KPH. I checked my mirror as i was slowing and see this maroon Mondeo still belting along behind me. I flashed my hazards and he's still hammering along, so i started dabbing the brake pedal, just trying to get his attention to the fact that i was doing nowhere near 120KPH. He gets right up behind me and then nosedives as he hit his brakes. I turned off the hazards and when the truck pulled back in accelerated again next thing the lights are flashing and the 2 tone is on!. I pulled over and a Uniformed Garda gets out and proceeds to read me the riot act cos I was flashing my hazards! I explained that i was just letting him know that i wasn't making usual progression blah blah but he was having none of it. It was after 2 in the afternoon though, so they could've been late for shift change!!

overdriver

I had the same experience just outside Wicklow town one night. Car comes up, puts on the high beams and drove way too close to me. I stuck to the limit, and eventually he pulled me.

He got out of the car, which shot off and he proceeded to give me the " We're stopping you because you're driving in a manner which makes me suspect you're drunk". On and on it went. He maintained I crossed a white line on the ditch side of the road. In other words, drove too close to the ditch.

I pointed out that there were roadworks, so no white line was present. He just kept it up til the car came back for him about 20 minutes later. I have no doubt in my mind that he was trying to get me to speed up and break the limit. Why turn on the full beams too?

Nice thread necro, by the way.

cyrusdvirus

By the way, I've also had a number of good experiences with the gardai, once being let off a slight speeding fine (34mph) cos I genuinely missed the 30 MPH from 40 MPH sign.

And my uncle was stopped on the cork side of Fermoy on his way up to Kells (the Meath version) to see my grandmother on her deathbed. Got escorted the rest of the way.

I think the gardai have a difficult job, and there are times that i'd love to be a cop just to pull some idiotic drivers out of their cars viia the exhaust pipe, but guys like the 2 i mentioned tar all the good members of the force with the same brush

Rudolph Claus

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbannon
How could a cars fog lights blind you when the car is 2 inches from your bumper?
Headlamps OK but fog lights?

deputydugs wrote:

VERY TRUE

That and we dont have fog lamps on our cars, u have lied online about fog lamps up your **** So what are be to say abt the rest of your story, I am sure you got stopped but is your car standing out from the crowd sir

The chap probably couldnt see what lights ye had with them driving up his ass, head/fogs what difference does it make. The numptys were still blinding him and tailgaiting him to the extreme.

I take it your a garda then Dugs, so whats this craic on blinding us motorists with full heads? Is it an "unofficial" practice, and dont bother lying cause ive 2 cousins in the guards.

Mahatma coat

sometosser wrote:

I am sure you got stopped but is your car standing out from the crowd sir

that is still not good enough reason to pull over a car.

Gard1 'OOH lookat misterfancypants tehre in his shiny car'
Gard2 'Looks a fair bit nicer than your 89 Sunny'
Gard1 'F*c*im, No standin out from the crowd thats the rule'
Gard2 'Fine we'll book him, but we have to observe him break the law first
Gard1 'Nae bother I'll just tear up behind him at 150MPH and shur whatever he does in response will probably be illegal'
Gard2 'Grand so, stall him out a bit tho lad we needs tha aul overtime too'


What the Gardai are doing in cases like this is wrong and dangerous, this kinda thing has been going on for a while now and its about time people started to complain properly to ombudsmen and the like, otherwise the Bsartds will continue to do it and get away with it.

yodellingbren

<edited for clarity>
Hi, I've heard rumours years ago of Gards using underhanded tactics to book people. I've also had a couple of instances of getting a bollocking...

1st, in Naas, nearly ten years ago there was a rumour that the Gards were driving in unmarked cars, right up to people's bumpers to get people to speed up, then pulling them over and doing them for dangerous driving/speeding. I know a couple of people who were done for speeding and will swear blind this is how they were done.

2nd, I've been pulled over a few times and given a right bollocking by plain-clothed gards. I now wonder if they have a directive to scare the **** out of anyone acting the maggot (and yes, I have to hold my hands up, I was acting the maggot a bit - mind you if people had any lane discipline on the M1... rant rant rant...)

I wonder if your experience is a mix of these? That is, first they start driving on top of you to get you to do something, then they pull you over and give you a bollocking. The objective (presumably) is to make sure you're not planning to drink and drive, speed, etc.

Stark

yodellingbren wrote:

2nd, I've been pulled over a few times and given a right bollocking by plain-clothed gards. I now wonder if they have a directive to scare the **** out of anyone acting the maggot (and yes, I have to hold my hands up, I was acting the maggot a bit - mind you if people had any lane discipline on the M1... rant rant rant...)

Proper order too. It's actually happened to me before. Got pulled over for thinking I could make an orange light and going through it as it turned red. An unmarked vehicle switched on its sirens behind me, two plain clothes gardaí got out of it and gave me a right bollocking for it. I didn't get any penalty points/summons though so I can't complain. And it did make me take more care from that point on so win win all round. (I nearly crapped myself at the time ).

yodellingbren wrote:

I wonder if your experience is a mix of these? That is, first they start driving on top of you to get you to do something, then they pull you over and give you a bollocking. The objective (presumably) is to make sure you're not planning to drink and drive, speed, etc.

Yeah that I don't agree with. Happened to me before in the Phoenix Park, driving along at 50kph, car pulls up behind me, swithces on full beams and rides my ass for a good five minutes. Luckily for me, I was in an indignant mood that day so stuck firmly to the 50kph. It was very much relieved that I did when they finally overtook me and I saw that it was a squad car. I know one poster here got a speeding fine before after he sped up in response to being tailgated by gardaí.

Seth Brundle

I wonder what would happen if you tipped the brakes with an unmarked car behind you. Could they do you for some kind of dangerous driving?

edit: yes I know that being unmarked, you woudn't know it was the gardai!

event

BTW, everyone saying that them driving up close to you makes you speed up

you dont HAVE to speed up, you can stick to the limit fine if you want

yodellingbren

event wrote:

BTW, everyone saying that them driving up close to you makes you speed up

you dont HAVE to speed up, you can stick to the limit fine if you want

This is true, but at the same time it's very uncomfortable to be tail gated. Also, it's quite dangerous for someone to drive right up your rear, often (as mentioned here) with headlights on. The result is almost instinctively to speed up, even a little. Most people here have said they consciously did not speed up for one reason or another when this happened to them.

GreeBo

Big Nelly wrote:

L plate driver, did you have a full license driver with you if you where supposed to?

Im sorry, whats an "L plate driver"?
Some who is a learner driver or someone in a car that has L plates on it?
There is a difference.

Not that it has any bearing or relevence on how the Gardai were driving, but 1st time I was with a full driver and the second time I wasnt as I had my own licence.

Car Mad

Mahatma coat wrote:

What the Gardai are doing in cases like this is wrong and dangerous, this kinda thing has been going on for a while now and its about time people started to complain properly to ombudsmen and the like, otherwise the Bsartds will continue to do it and get away with it.

I know what your saying but trust me its not a good idea to complain.
I know that if you complain about any member of the ahem (boys in blue) they and the rest of the BRANCH will make your life hell.I wish it wasnt that way but some of them are power mad now dont get me wrong I have a few friends in the gards and they are sound do anything for you but some a just plain dicks.My advice is if they start tailgating is maintain your speed pull in when its safe to do so and block your ears when the c**ts pull in beside you:D

testicle

Who dragged this nonsense up after 6 months, and why?

_Kaiser_

kbannon wrote:

I wonder what would happen if you tipped the brakes with an unmarked car behind you. Could they do you for some kind of dangerous driving?

edit: yes I know that being unmarked, you woudn't know it was the gardai!

Well I can answer that one...

Was coming down the N4 several months ago in the outside lane doing about 70/75kph (80 zone) but still moving faster than cars on the inside (of which there were enough also to form a constant queue of traffic).

Anyway, this Focus saloon comes right up behind me and stays there. I watch him for a minute or two then tap the brakes.. nothing, he's still there. OK.. so I brake smoothly but right down to about 40 which does make him back off though he flashes the (head)lights at me.

So next set of lights, out he hops and flashes a badge at me.. then proceeds to start giving me crap about "hogging" the outside lane. I asks him where he'd like me to go seeing as there's a solid stream of traffic on the left (which was moving slower thus fully entitling me to be where I was), and ask him what HE was doing tailgating me anyway??

He then mutters something about how if he was on duty (presumably another country cop off home for the weekend) I'd get points, and walks back to his car but not before throwing "you should go look at the Rules of the Road" as a parting shot - to which I reply that he should know that tailgating is against the rules as well.. after which I rolled up the window and drove on.

So.. my verdict: Another ignorant cop on a power trip that thinks a badge allows him to bully and intimidate anyone he likes. As with any bully though, the best thing is to just put them back in their place (if he'd pushed it, the next thing I'd have asked him is his name, station, and superintendent's name and would have rang right there and then - done it before).

Mahatma coat

@ Car mad, they only get away with that kinda **** because people have the attitude you mentioned there, dont rock the boat or the whole branch will harass you, the fact that you said theat indicates that the problem is a lot worse than I initialy thought, if you havent done anything wrong these Fckures cant touch you, and the second one of them tried to intimidate you they should be hauled up in front of a public court and asked to justify their actions on the stand, you might find that this goes a way to curtailing them.

people need to start taking affirmitave action and letting thes bullies know that they're not going to get away with this sort of sh1te any more, if the people were more triggerhappy reporting bad cops then they would think twice before doing some of the more arogant and dangerous things they do at the moment

Podge

heggie

was driving late one night up leopardstown road, no traffic to be seen, and suddenly I see a car in the rear view mirror speeding towards me - it kept going until it was right on my bumper, and suprise it was a garda car. It tailgaited me for a minute or so, then over took me. I dont mind them doing spot checks/pulling people randomly, but that dangerous intimidating behaviour is not on.

Mahatma coat

Kaiser thats the trick, more people should do that, dont let them intimidate ya, most people have phones, and they have to identify themselves to you correctly, a few cases of people doing this and it being reported in the papers (plantin the idea in the minds of the general population) and we would see the Cnvts think twice before trying to bump up their return of work with easy targets