Super Sized Bus Stop - Rathmines Rd Upper

jman0

Well Shoegirl,
I don't know what u mean by "edge city".

I lived in Rathgar until recently and worked in the city centre, but also worked in Clonskeagh. I used to live in Terenure and worked in Clonskeagh.
While there i was also doing an evening course in Ballyfermot, and would cycle to and fro a couple times a week.
I found cycling the only way to go.
Much quicker than driving.
I suspect if Linoge really had no other option but to use a car, he'd have made that clear by now.
It seems incredible that someone would choose to live within the city paying high rents yet commuting outside the city to their jobs. Infact, that is just plain backwards.
A city is full of businesses, people work in businesses, residential areas get pushed further out.

shoegirl

Linoge wrote:

Realistic is a matter of opinion. Is it realistic to get up at 6am to make sure you get a parking spot at the train station or to get the only train that will get you in before 9 o'clock (that also gets you in before 8 o'clock), or to get the earlier bus because your bus is usually late or doesn't arrive.

My argument is not "lets all use cars", its that there really is no realistic alternative for alot of commuters. The whole city needed a Transport 21 X 5 about 20 years ago.

Individual commuters will not change their attitudes unless there is an incentive for them to. Longer commute times on dirty hot/cold buses, cycling with maniac drivers for an hour etc. and all for what, so it will be easier for other people who still use cars to get to work? It needs to be cost and time saving to use public transport. In Dublin it is not either.

Its interesting by the way that we are discussing this area as the very useful local 13 service was butchered by CIE back in 1997 and again around 2000/2001. Originally it provided a service that took you from Beechwood Ave straight over to Ballymun via Glasnevin, however DB split the route in 2 around October 97 and made it two separate routes. Then they heavily cut back the route which by 2001 was down to only a handful of buses per day. This was all done when employment was dramatically growing and bus use should have been increasing with demand?

Similar things were done with the airport service in the early 90s (remember the 41A) and even my favourite route, the now demised 60 - incredibly, much of the route which the 60 covered was left with no service, yet is now being built around (I'm thinking of the area from Knocksedan Cross to the Rath and the back of the airport). The 41A was more or less merged with the 41 service, which badly damaged the already slow and congested 41 (which unsurprisingly resulted in a slump in passenger numbers).

What is needed in Dublin (and for that matter in other cities) is a Transport Authority that is accountable, is not living in the past, and is looking at the future needs and not just short term trends.

In 1997 it took me about 1.5-2 hours on average to bus it from Swords to the Sandford Rd. I bought a car the following year and this cut my commuting time in two. I went from spending 15-20 hours a week on a bus/at freezing bus stops to 7.5-10 hrs a week in a car. You cannot blame anybody for wanting to spend less time in a car. This was a part time job, by the way, so in my bussing days I almost spent as much time commuting as I did in the job!

shoegirl

jman0 wrote:

Well Shoegirl,
I don't know what u mean by "edge city".

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_city

jman0 wrote:

It seems incredible that someone would choose to live within the city paying high rents yet commuting outside the city to their jobs. Infact, that is just plain backwards.
A city is full of businesses, people work in businesses, residential areas get pushed further out.

First of all a lot of city centre businesses in Irish cities (and even large towns) are choosing to relocate to the suburbs because of high rents etc. (For example where I work in Cork city is rapidly being deserted by businesses relocating to developments in Mahon, Little Island and Ballingcollig - I notice two very large place gone in 6 months). Secondly a lot of people prefer to live in the city or close to the city to socialise, or because if they do change jobs they *should* find transport more accessible. However, this may not always be the case. A lot of people, by the way, moving to commuter counties, are familes or people who are originally from rural areas.

The other point I will make is that up to about 5-6 years ago the kind of single unit converted flats or small apartments that single people like to rent simply weren't available outside urban areas and traditional rental areas like Dublin 6. Its only in that time that we've started seeing 1 bed apartments in a large concentration in suburban towns.

jman0

tbh i haven't given it much thought.
I read that bit about "Edge City" but i dispute it's relevance.
Sounds like a marketing phrase crafted by the author.
I reckon it's just normal urban sprawl.
I'm not actually convinced that city centre businesses are leaving the city to setup shop on the outskirts. Not that it doesn't happen to businesses (like Woodies DIY for example).
I think if that were the case, the logical consequence is that we'd see lower rents in the city centre. But we don't.
Maybe there are just certain types of industry (like manufacturing) that leave the city centre and maybe it's a good thing. Like businesses that invariably require several lorries to come and go everyday. They may find it better to setup someplace more handy.
If a business leaves the centre there are 10 more chomping at the bit to get in there.

Insofar as people choosing to live within the city yet commute outside, that is there prejogative alright. But they can hardly expect sympathy when the city erects some form of public transport on the public road outside their door.