Getting Planning Permission

joe2005

Hi all,

I am totally clueless about this, so forgive my ignorance. I have seen a site in a good area that I would like to buy. It is 0.24 acres in size and is not being sold subject to Planning. How do I go about getting outline planning for this,or what is the ususal procedure? I obviously don't want to bid unless I am sure of gettng planning. The site is in Kildare.

Cheers,
Joe

The Hill Billy

Joe:

A good place to start would be your local authority website. Check out:
http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/Planning/index.html

Take a look at the local area plans for where the site is located to see if what you are thinking of building fits in with the plan for the area. Check also if there have been recent applications of a similar nature granted/refused in the same area.

beolight

do a search here lots of stuff posted already

perhaps a sticky might be of use here mods

paulocon

I would imagine that 0.24 acres might be a bit on the small size and would think that it might severly restrict the size and positioning of the house you want to build. I think that some councils insist on a minimum site size but this may vary from county to county.

If you cannot buy the site Subject to Planning and if you can't get this cast in iron legally, the stay well clear. There have been numerous cases of people applying for planning for a site and getting the planning only for the owner of the site to sell it onto someone else at a bumped-up price.

If it is something you are giving serious consideration to, try and organise a pre-planning meeting with one of the council planners. You should get a good indication from this what your chances will be like...

squire1

I'd be vary wary of this one Joe. It seems like a very small site. It is urban or rural? I'm fairly sure the min site for a rural location is .33 acre. If it was possible to get OPP why would the vendor not do that before he sells to maximise it's value. If you do get OPP there is no guarantee that the vendor will not raise the price as a result or sell to someone else.

Also, the chances of you being granted planning on a piece of ground that you do not actually own is probably quiet small. The council would probably insist that you actually buy the land first or have a contract to do so subject to planning being granted.

muffler

joe2005 wrote:

Hi all,

I am totally clueless about this, so forgive my ignorance. I have seen a site in a good area that I would like to buy. It is 0.24 acres in size and is not being sold subject to Planning. How do I go about getting outline planning for this,or what is the ususal procedure? I obviously don't want to bid unless I am sure of gettng planning. The site is in Kildare.

Cheers,
Joe

As a previous poster said get yourself down to your local planning dept. and look for a pre planning appointment. If the site is serviced by public sewer you will be OK on that score - if not you are looking at trouble because of the restricted nature of it.

If the vendor is not prepared to sell subject to planning then I would avoid it like the plague. Remember, if there is no permission on it then its not technically a site. Its just a plot of ground.

joe2005

muffler wrote:

As a previous poster said get yourself down to your local planning dept. and look for a pre planning appointment. If the site is serviced by public sewer you will be OK on that score - if not you are looking at trouble because of the restricted nature of it.

If the vendor is not prepared to sell subject to planning then I would avoid it like the plague. Remember, if there is no permission on it then its not technically a site. Its just a plot of ground.

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. I am a bit wary of it. As a few of you have said, I'm sure it would be worth a lot more if it had planning permission, therefore it would be in the vendors interest to get PP before selling it on, he/she might have already tried that and failed. It is actually in the garden of an existing house, so it would be serviced, but the house itself is also up for sale. I think there are too many risks involved in this one.
Cheers.

Avns1s

joe2005 wrote:

Hi all,
As a few of you have said, I'm sure it would be worth a lot more if it had planning permission, therefore it would be in the vendors interest to get PP before selling it on, he/she might have already tried that and failed.
Cheers.

Firstly, I agree with the other posters. You're getting good advice.

It might not necessarily be possible for the vendor to get planning on the site. In Mayo, there is a clause in the development plan about "dealing with local needs". ie. you need to justify why you need/have to live in the particular rural location before they will grant planning. This is to prevent people buying sites and building holiday homes in the rural areas and also to prevent speculation on land. Therefore, if a landowner wants to sell a site he/she must sell it subject to planning and allow the purchaser to apply for permission to develop it. This would obviously, strengthen your position in looking for a contract for purchase subject to planning. I wouldn't touch it otherwise.

Secondly, I feel that it is far too small if it's in a rural location. While I'm sure it varies from county to county, a rural site in Mayo must be at least 2000 sq. metres in size and have at least 30 metres of road frontage.

Hope this helps.

paulocon

joe2005,

Should be ralatively straightforward to see if planning has been applied for in this location already. Most councils now have all planning apps online - I know that a few I've seen have apps marked on a photographic map of the county which is very handy..

De_man

squire1 wrote:

Also, the chances of you being granted planning on a piece of ground that you do not actually own is probably quiet small. The council would probably insist that you actually buy the land first or have a contract to do so subject to planning being granted.

Hi, squire1 is nearly 100% correct, you don't have to buy the land prior
to applying for planning permission on the site, you only need a letter from the
landowner stating that he/she is the owner of the land and have no objections to you applying for planning permission.

Do an online check to see if any applications have been made in the past, especially if an application had been made, then withdrawn, this'll tell you a multitude.

If planning had been refused it'll greatly affect the value of the site,
and if you do happen to get planning on the site, there's no guarantee
that the vendor will actually sell the site to you:(


Best of luck


a pint of plain is yer only man

sas

Finding myself in an uncomfortable situation as regards planning at the moment myself. Have agreed a price on a site with outline planning permission in Laois. Being sold as is, not subject to full planning.

The problem is that in April a new county development plan was released and (as has been refered to above) there is now a stipulation of "local need" to build in laois.

Prior to this the only thing I would have had trouble with is the style of house. I would have been able to build, just what would have been the question.

So to all intents and purposes outline planning permission is now pointless in Laois. If you are from a rural area you'll most likely get planning anyway, otherwise you won't.

The killer is that both my wife and I grew up 4 miles from the site and the council stipulation is 3 miles.

We haven't bought the site yet but we may risk it. It would seem its this site or never based on the new guidelines.

As for the owner selling it on to someone else if you do get full planning, I've been told that you can withdraw your planning application even afters its granted and therefore you should be able to avoid this. I have yet to confirm this with the council however.

Good luck with the site hunt.

muffler

sas wrote:

Being sold as is, not subject to full planning.

The problem is that in April a new county development plan was released and (as has been refered to above) there is now a stipulation of "local need" to build in laois.

Was the outline granted prior to the new county development plan coming into force. If it was I wouldnt see much problem as the conditions would have been based on the devp. plan in force at that time and if you now apply for permission consequent on same you should be fine.

But its down to the date of grant of outline permission

damiand

I would like to agree with Muffler. A local Need was not an issue on the outline application it cannot/ should not be considered in relation to the Permission Consequent of the Grant of Outline Permission Planning application.

It would also do no harm in calling the Council and discussing this with the local planner.

Dont throw away your dream of building because of miss information or not asking those who will help - the planner- all because of what generally surrounds planning - misinformation and ignorance of the matter of fact - ....

sas

What caused my concern was that my preplanning meeting with the council raised the issue of whether I was local or not. We pointed out that the OPP was granted prior to this but he didn't seem interested.

Anyway, I marched into the planning office yesterday and asked again. This time the person I spoke to went to a planner again and asked the same thing.

In a nutshell (as the last 2 posts pointed out), if the OPP does not make any reference to a local need or to who should occupy the property, then all I need to worry about is the style of house.

So on we go.

SAS