Day 7

eirebhoy

casanova_kid wrote:

Anybody else think Dwight Yorke should have been man of the mathc.?

He was give man of the match against Sweden and has probably been player of the tournament after 2 games so far. I don't think they award motm to a player on the losing side, or so it seems.

MOTM's so far in order of match played:
KLOSE Miroslav
DELGADO Agustin
LAMPARD Frank
YORKE Dwight
SAVIOLA Javier
ROBBEN Arjen
BRAVO Omar
LUIS FIGO
PIRLO Andrea
ROSICKY Tomas
KAKA
CAHILL Tim
MAKELELE Claude
AHN Jung Hwan
XAVI
JAZIRI Zied
LAHM Philipp
DELGADO Agustin
BECKHAM David

Rikand

Delgado, Yorke and Shaka Hislop, my players of the tournament and I think either Shaka or Yorke should have gotten motm today

tdv

eirebhoy wrote:

I think Beckham get motm just shows how bad they were as he was well below par.

"David Beckham is the Budweiser Man of the Match today for a number of reasons,” said FIFA Technical Study Group member Rodrigo Kenton. “At times, he dictated the pace of the game and the quality of the ball he delivered for England's first goal was superb.”

Beckham, who spent part of the second half in an unfamilar right-back role, contributed with his leadership at a time when England might have let themselves get frustrated. "Being the captain of a team is a very important job and today Beckham did that superbly," said Kenton.

"Things were not going well for England, but he rallied the team by the standard of his performance and by his character. He knows the rhythm of the team, he is able to manipulate it - and quite simply, he is a quality player."

The FIFA Technical Study Group member Rodrigo Kenton has lost the plot by the sound of things

KdjaCL

Sweden are awful, i thought TT did well stoping them, guess not they just awful.


kdjac

evad_lhorg

england are ruined by the media hype. they have nothing to deserve the hype at all. they have world class players but not as a team. the problem is midfield by far. erikson needs to let gerrard go forward not lampard. they are not as good as theyre made out to be at all and it is because they just cant play or link well together as a team.

we saw today what gerrard attacking can do and he only really did it at the end. and we all saw the fa cup final :rolleyes:

PiE

Sh*te game. Kallstrom better score first.

Also I dunno what they're like on UTV and BBC, but I'm so bloody sick of the Irish commentators praising Henrik Larsson every time he comes within 50ft of the ball. Newsflash lads: He's not Irish.

gimmick

PiE wrote:

Newsflash lads: He's not Irish.

But he played for Celtic so that makes him kind of Irish, becaise Celtic are a kind of Irish club.

Re England game - thought Lampard was muck, Lennon did well when he came on, as did Rooney. The scoreline was a kick in the teeth for TT though. The gulf in class was obvious though. I felt England dictated, without any real penetration. Hope TT get a win on the last day to progress.

Anyone catch what the first cliché was? I had to watch it with no volume.

Re Sweden Vs Paraguay - what crap. I reckon it will finish 1-1 after 2 scrappy goals.

Rikand

it better not stay 0-0...i had that as my original prediction and changed it to a sweden win...omg am i regretting that atm!

mike65

Sweden are making England look incisive. They seem to have forgotten this is a game they must win to be sure.

Mike.

Rikand

ibram replaced by Allback...thats the 0-0 draw guaranteed!

evad_lhorg

ibrahimovic is overrated. you hear so much about him and every big match he doesnt perform at all.

Pepe LeFrits

England have the dubious honour of joining France as a team I was supporting at the beginning of the tournament and now want to see exit at the earliest opportunity.

Seriously, they were complete dick. Long ball bull**** all game, no invention or creativity whatsoever. What I like about England typically is the high-tempo, honest, all-or-nothing style play. What you get with this England team is insipid, desireless, dishonest, dull football. Crouch fouling the defender on the sly for the goal really pissed me off.

Fingers crossed Ecuador draw with the Germans and the Germans dump them out on penos again.

Lemlin

Sweden do an England, leave it late and score in the 88th minute.

YeatsCounty

Sweden take a 1-0 lead with 2 minutes left, Ljungberg.

Damn it anyway. i wanted to see T&T have a chance of qualifying. :
(Yes they still can but they have a goal differance of -2 compared to Sweden's +1)

KdjaCL

Well at least my peoper bet won.



kdjac

Rikand

Smurf Yeah!

Go Sweden!

mike65

the Swedes are as fuctional as thier funiture.

Mike.

el rabitos

gimmick wrote:

But he played for Celtic so that makes him kind of Irish, becaise Celtic are a kind of Irish club.

u need to talk to mr.spock or something, thats some of thr strangest logic i've ever come across :eek:

jester77

2 poor games and Sweden and England were both lucky. Crouch's goal shouldn't have stood, don't know how he got away with that pulling of the hair! Don't think they would have gotten the second if that had been disallowed! Can't see either of them getting any further.

Guy:Incognito

rofl at bill o'herlihy:

Talking about teh england group: "that group by no means over". hahahah. Baring some sort of miracle it's going to finish as is, or at the worst england and sweden swap places.

Guy:Incognito

el rabitos wrote:

u need to talk to mr.spock or something, thats some of thr strangest logic i've ever come across :eek:

I think if you look closely, you might detect some sarcasm.

Oh yeah. No commentson the lack of a robot?

el rabitos

Stekelly wrote:

I think if you look closely, you might detect some sarcasm.

Oh yeah. No commentson the lack of a robot?

i sure hope so. scary stuff.

i think crouch has finally copped on that most people think of him as a bit of a side-show as it is, so he's cutting out the dance. he said in an interview during the week that he wont be doing it again

Lemlin

Stekelly wrote:

rofl at bill o'herlihy:

Talking about teh england group: "that group by no means over". hahahah. Baring some sort of miracle it's going to finish as is, or at the worst england and sweden swap places.

Not sure about that. T&T beat Paraguay 1-0 or so and Sweden lose heavily to England and T&T are through.

Hope lives on.

KdjaCL

el rabitos wrote:

u need to talk to mr.spock or something, thats some of thr strangest logic i've ever come across :eek:

Have you not noticed how they refer to Celtic players and PL players in general on RTE , its they are "ours".

Or as someone refered to Prso not that good as he plays for Rangers but Larrson and Nakamura legends.


kdjac

eirebhoy

KdjaC wrote:

Or as someone refered to Prso not that good as he plays for Rangers but Larrson and Nakamura legends.

Hamilton just doesn't like the SPL full stop. The lad tonight was certainly going ott with Larsson. Naka had a great game on Monday and deserved whatever credit the commentator gave him.

mike65

So then which team will want to top the group and which will want to 'throw the game'? Could get very interesting next Tuesday. Unless one views Germany and Equador as being little different from each other footballing wise.

Mike.

Lemlin

I'd imagine teams would want to avoid Germany because they're the host. Ecuador don't look half bad though.

KdjaCL

Group A games at 2pm and group Bs at 8 so they will know what to play for.



kdjac

el rabitos

KdjaC wrote:

Have you not noticed how they refer to Celtic players and PL players in general on RTE , its they are "ours".

Or as someone refered to Prso not that good as he plays for Rangers but Larrson and Nakamura legends.


kdjac

i never watch the rte coverage when i can avoid it. celtic and larsson are as irish as hidetoshi nakata

Pigman II

I think if I was Sven I wouldn't worry about who I might play in the last 16 and just rest my entire first XI for the Sweden game.

Lemlin

Pigman II wrote:

I think if I was Sven I wouldn't worry about who I might play in the last 16 and just rest my entire first XI for the Sweden game.

From the look of the last two matches they've been doing a little too much resting on the pitch.

mike65

I'd tell them it does'nt matter and have some fun - they might just be relaxed enough to play a decent game.

Mike.

eirebhoy

The Czechs played their entire 2nd string against Germany last year and still beat them. Only Galasek was a first team player and they took him off at half time.

RE*AC*TOR

I'm tired of watching crap teams, I want to see Spain play again.

el rabitos

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I'm tired of watching crap teams, I want to see Spain play again.

agreed. as much as i like watching 3 games a day.

i want to see italy, spain and the czechs play again

eirebhoy

Brazil play with 2 strikers, 2 wide players (if you can call Ronnie and Kaka wide players) and 2 defensive midfielders. Even though they have magnificant talent on the bench they still play 2 defensive midfielders. Sven plays 2 strikers, 2 wide players, an attacking midfielder and a defensive midfielder (if you can call Gerrard that). How in the name of God does he think this works and how in the name of god have the English pundits not copped on to it by now.

Take Ze Roberto or Emerson out of the Brazil midfield, replace him with Juninho and you have about the same balanced team as Sven plays. He's a bloody terrible coach. While England's defense is often critisised, they have done very well in keeping clean sheets with the pressure put on them in the last couple of years.

Argentina play Mascherano and Cambiasso. Holland play van Bommel and Cocu. Spain play Xavi and Alonso. It doesn't even need to be as defensive as that. Gerrard could easily fit into a 4-4-2 because he does a lot of work off the ball. The Czechs would normally play a 4-4-2 with Galasek holding and a Gerrard type player beside him. These are all really strong teams with really strong squads but for some reason Sven isn't allowed drop anyone from the current team because they're too good as individuals.

county

england were poor but we got the 3 points,in a nutshell,happy

Lemlin

county wrote:

england were poor but we got the 3 points,in a nutshell,happy

Do you honestly think that? England were poor against a team with Division 2 players today. Imagine what the likes of Spain, Italy, or even Ecuador on the current standing of things, would do to them.

mike65

I suspect England will do better against teams that want to play football.

Mike.

el rabitos

county wrote:

england were poor but we got the 3 points,in a nutshell,happy

no offence man, but theres probably going to be alot of gut laughing around when a good team get their mitts on england, based on those last 2 matches, i can see a good team knocking more than 3 goals past them.

svens going to have to show some courage and drop a millionaire

Lemlin

mike65 wrote:

I suspect England will do better against teams that want to play football.

Mike.

I suspect teams who want to play football could rip the England defence to pieces because it has little support from the midfield. T&T and Paraguay had a good chance or two for lesser teams. Chances the likes of Argentina would have taken.

samb

tdv wrote:

What did everyone think of Liam Brady's claim that the England players arent as good as there made out to be?

No, they are excellent players. for example we have seen the like's of Gerrard dominating huge games in the CL, PL, and FA cup. But he is not playing with spirit or confidence. Everytime they get the ball they must hit it long because the players nearer them are not calling for it. Compared to the way the way the Dutch, Spanish and even GHana passed the ball through midfield they were hopeless, everybody seemed scared of the ball. I think they just can't handle the pressure and need confidence badly. I agree that SVen is rubbish but I don't think he can be blaimed solely for how badly the players are playing.
Much is made of Gerrard and Lampard not being matched well in midfield (and I agree) but if they played to their best, it wouldn;t matter, they would create dozens of chances.

They have at least two matches left now- I still think it's possible that they can overcome what I see as largely a psychological problem

MisterAnarchy

Originally Posted by tdv
What did everyone think of Liam Brady's claim that the England players arent as good as there made out to be?

Brady is spot on as usual.
He is probably the shrewdest pundit in these isles.
The English team are grossly overhyped.
Week in week out the English and Irish audiences are bombarded with hype about how great the Premiership is and how it has the best players in the world.
The style of football in England is played at too high a pace and the onus is not on holding possession.
When the English team play in International matches they cannot play fluid passing football.
It is not in their nature to keep the ball and be patient in their build up play.
Look at all the hype about Michael Carrick at the moment.
Man Utd are interested in buying him .
Because he is English his value is grossly inflated.
Benitez has said in the past that it is too expensive to buy English players .
Hype inflates the price.
Objective analysis goes out the window if the subject is English.
Its reasonable to praise certain players but the media must realise that most of the best footballers are not English.

PHB

Shocking display from Liverpool, I don't believe English players are ****e, definally overrated in some regards by the English, but that's it.

The system they play just does not work.
They can't play Lampard Gerrard and Beckham in the same team.

In a 4-3-3 you need fast wide men for it to work (incl. no more Cole)
In a 4-4-2 you need a defensive midfielder

One of them has to be dropped and the system adjusted accordingly.

Ruu_Old

England will need more than prayers if they are going to progress in the 2nd round.

masterK

It will be extremely interesting to say the least to see what happens in England Sweden game if Ecuador manage to hold Germany to a draw and thus top the group.

redspider

Well, that was an interesting game from a number of aspects. T&T had a good game plan. Strachan showed this on his analysis later, as the two front men for T&T covered the two full-backs (A Cole and Carragher) and prevented them from creating width. That nullified to some extent Beckhams opportunities for crosses. Mind you, Beckham was poor. So much for MOTM awards, and I dont see such awards as ever as being near 100% accurate anyway.

Yorke played well, as did Birchnall (sp?). The backs did what they could and the T&T deep defence worked a treat. England couldnt get past them. A 0-0 was on the cards even after Sven changed his strategy. I think Sven did well to bring on Lennon and move Beckham back. Lennon has pace, but is not a good crosser, although even bad crossers can get in a good cross every now and again, and Beckham then had more space for his crosses.

It has to be said that T&T had a couple of chances, but only a couple. The miracle didnt happen. Gerrard played the deeper role, and even though that debate will go on and on (about Gerrard and Lampard), he did well in that role. However, it removed him from the attacking 3rd of the field. As people observed, he seemed not to be on the pitch but I did notice on several occasions him covering back.

But people need to give credit to the T&T midfield for nullyfying the English midfield by and large for most of the match.

Terry was excellent and saved England with that off-the-line clearence. Ferdinand did his job reasonably. Carragher is rusty as a right back and not attack-minded enough. Owen was poor again. He only did a couple of things. His confidence is once again shot to ribbons. He knows in his heart that Rooney is a better start and with Crouch doing a job, as ugly as it is, Rooney and Crouch may be the best formation for England up front. I think Rooney and an on-form Owen would be better however but Owen is not on form.

Crouch's goal was a clear foul. The T&Ter was just not wise or experienced enough to go to ground when Crouch was on his back and pulling his hair. Crouch is a bit of a cheat but its endemic in the sport as there is no deterrent.

Once that goal went in it changed the game, and right at the death, the complexion changed, and Gerrard showed once again why he should be the attacking midfielder. It was a cracking goal and against Hislop again (who will still be thinking of similar goals he couldnt stop in the recent FA Cup final).

England failed in their task, it has to be said, and whilst they did get 3 pts, it must be recalled that T&T are ranked around 50th in the world, hardly the creme de la creme of world football. I was impressed by Dwight Yorke once again. He will be 36 later this year and he led his team nearly to what would have been a great 'scalp'.

Rooney started well but was clearly not match fit. The run out will have done him some good though and he can only improve. He will play 60 mins in the next match I would expect. Joe Cole was proving a threat so I was surprised he was taken off. Downing is ok but thats about it. Ashley Cole is not match sharp having been laid off all season and is far from his peak, both in defence and going forward where they need him.

As for the thoughts of Giles/Dunphy/Brady/Souness, Giles and Dunphy were particularly negative, and over the top. Unlike Strachan, they looked at the symptoms of Englands problems and not the causes, as Strachan did. It has to be said that Beenhakker (which is Dutch for Leg-chopper by the way, apt for football!) set his team up well and their game plan nearly worked. Brady called it right that the English players arent as good as they are made out to be. Of course thats if you listen to the English and Irish media all the time. If you read/listen to media from elsewhere in the world, they are not so hyped.

Souness and Strachan are better analysts having been managers recently. The problem with Dunphy is that he never made it as a manager and was a poor player skill-wise. Giles did ok and is a better judge. Brady was a good player, but didnt cut it as a manager. Souness has had management difficulties, which we all know about. They are a better bunch than the ITV crewe though.

England are through to the last 16, but lets be fully aware that this is from a weak group, and is far from the group of 'death' in terms of quality. England may not have a tough match until the last 8, but on their two performances so far, they are not world cup winning material. I think Sven knows this too!

redspider

redspider

Kingp35 wrote:

Yeah I agree with the seperate match threads as well.

agreed.

Necronomicon

I was working all night and missed both matches.....how long did Rooney play for?

Kingp35

Necromomicon wrote:

I was working all night and missed both matches.....how long did Rooney play for?

About half an hour. He looked way off the pace and clearly wasnt fit but im sure the 30mins did him good.