2 years come and gone

Orionetheus

DAEDULUS, first of all. Ouch.

2nd. You arent here to judge me, you are meant to judge the paper

3rd There is very little I will miss in Ireland, one of the more prominate things being the ability to go to OTHER PARTS of Europe.

4th I said above, im not expecting to inflict change

5th It was obviously worth 5 pages worth of attention on this forum.
5th It's my blog, I can put on it what I want.

6th

Hobbes

5. You dyed your hair and got expelled. You broke the rules. You knew there would be consequences, yet you somehow thought it would be seen as "contraversial" and it wasn't. It was seen as breaking the rules and you were punished. Did you expect some special treatment that you didn't get? Did you think you were special and should have been looked up to for being so daring? By the way, how is it bordering on racism? They didn't expell you because your hair is the "wrong colour" (btw this would not be racism if they had), they expelled you because they have rules and you broke them. Again, get over it.

If you go through his blog you would find that he has had numerous detentions so the expelling was just the final straw.

Your right though, it clearly looks like he was expecting an American school culture and then rebelled when it wasn't rather then trying to adjust to the system.

While universities can be debated, the US secondary school educational system leaves a lot to be desired.

Orionetheus

Dragan wrote:

Are you sure you just were not finding them open minded and smart simply because they were agreeing with you???

You basically say that one of your problems with Wesley is the students, who surround themselves with clones and yes men.....

....and then you seem to do the same.

Ironic to say the least.

Quite frankly, i want to give your whole attitude and "paper" a good long reply, as i feel it's important to do so, but i don't have time right now, give me and hour or so.

We Agreed on MANY other fronts. Not just the one.

Orionetheus

Hobbes wrote:

If you go through his blog you would find that he has had numerous detentions so the expelling was just the final straw.

Your right though, it clearly looks like he was expecting an American school culture and then rebelled when it wasn't rather then trying to adjust to the system.

While universities can be debated, the US secondary school educational system leaves a lot to be desired.

I never expected jack **** from the school, I wanted them to leave me alone to do my work when I wanted to do, I never interfered in class or the daily running of things.....

Also my numerous detentions were always due to being late (by choice).

There were one or two other ones.....

I adjusted to many aspects of Wesley, but I would have killed myself if I had stayed another year, that's how bad it was.

Dragan

Orionetheus wrote:

We Agreed on MANY other fronts. Not just the one.

Emmmmm...... exactly?????? So you , just like the poeple you claim you don;t like, surrounded yourself with people who would agree with you. You have just proven my point....anywhere, here's the full version of my thoguhts.



Okay OP,

Here are my rambling thoughts on what you have written in the thread, in your "paper" and in your blog entry.

1) As already mentioned, you were uprooted at a time in your life when you really need things to be as stable as they can. This was always gonna suck. It kind of strikes me that you just went along with everything instead of saying, hey, this is hard and dealing with it in the right way. I may be wrong, but most likely am not.

2) The reason people are reacting badly to what you are saying is because :

a) You are judging everyone purely off your experiences in Wesley, a place that is hardly indicitive of the real world or modern Ireland. I say this not because it's "Wesley" but because it's a school. One thing I have noticed is that neither school no college, anywhere really, is anything even close to "real".

b) You have claimed to hate this country. If I walked down 5th Avenue, screaming "I hate New York" I would expect a bad reaction too.

c) As I already said, you hate the clones, yet your first instinct is to like and hang around with people who think the same as you. Believe it or not someone can disagree with you and still be a really cool person. I imagine this point will get driven home in time.

3) Despite all your claims to the contrary there is a level of arrogance in everything you have said and done. From the "pointless rules argument" to the expulsion to the hatred of the education system. Did it ever occur to you that

a) rules are rules. You need to live by them. Just because you don't agree with a rule does not give you a right to break it. For some people robbing a bank would be very logical ( to use your own examples) as would killing someone…. Does this make it right? The don't find the logic in the rule, surely they can break it? Or does that argument only work for certain people….which would hardly be logical.

b) You were expelled for breaking the rules. Deal with it. You wanted to be cool and cause a stir, instead you just got dealt with in a way you should have known you would. Yeah, maybe it's harsh, but the doesn't really matter when you KNOW what will happen.

c) Did it ever occur to you that the system and the workload over here is just harder? That maybe you are just not up to scratch???? I find it funny that you would enter into a new situation and a new education system and begin to suffer and you would blame that system, that system rules, that systems advocates etc and never once look at yourself and think. Am I up for this? Sure, you did well in the states, but maybe it's just easier there???? ( not saying it is, or that you are stupid, just pointing out what you don't want to do ….. Look at yourself. )

You seem like a fairly alright chap, quite opinionated which is not a bad thing in and of itself. Everyone can have an opionion , but that does not mean it is always right to express it. Sometimes it is best to simply keep things to yourself. To be honest, I imagine if I had to listen to you bang on all the time about how "crap" my country is then I would simply smack you one. But that’s just me.

I would suggest you look at the situation objectively ( sure, you are telling us to, but you yourself are not…your "paper" which was written to make things better, was written by someone who feels failed by the system so is hardly objective. Whatever way you want to look at it the system works for most people. Deal with it. ) and you will find a lot of incidents where you made things worse, and whether you meant to or not, were being a bit of a prick.

I suggest you find some balance in your life, I imagine the moving was hard, and I feel that maybe you didn't deal with that the best way.

Maybe you will be more comfortable with yourself back in the states?

rick_fantastic

i have a brother (leaving cert) and sister (2nd yr) in wesley college.

it was my opinion up until bout 3 months ago that wesley college was a good school with a good emphasis on sport and education.

looking at my brother over the past few weeks who is sitting his leaving cert at the moment, he has no idea how to study, very little structure to his work or notes taken for the work (or lack of) he has done this year.

he was in evening study for the last year as he wanted to play senior cup rugby. i feel that he will be lucky to pass his leaving cert. not that this helped

my little sister has turned into the stereotype "d4 mall rat" who likes nothing more than spend her days in the dundrum shopping centre or stuck on the computer on bebo. i caught her drinking at the weekend... shes 14.

looking at wesley college i dont think that it is a great school, but in all fairness there is no such thing as a great school. everywhere u go there will be messers and crap teachers. its the way it is unfortunately.

d4gurl

SO I have a chemistry exam tomorrow and am way to excited about the summer but I gave your article a go! Well I read up to the bit when you went into each subject - then it got too much! I have relatives in Seattle myself..and my uncle often comments on how our education system is better...Im not here to fight...just my two cents...people have been mean to you on this thread and in life in general in Ireland..But I honestly do not think it is that bad! That is one school after all in the middel of so many...
My question: yes in Ireland their are unnescessary rules but usually these rules are allowed to be bent...Personally I think rules are imprortant even if they are trivial...You talk about freedom etc.... In America - freedom is promorted i understand - so much so that children bring in guns and shoot their classmate...now I do not see that happening in Ireland - do you? Why? I don't know... perhaps you do?

I am truly sorry that you had to put up with crap for so long...I did not read this whole thread because frankly it hurts my head to think (haha summer is so soon me no want to tnk anymore) I dont want to turn this into a america vs Ireland but personally I do prefer life in Ireland! I wish you all the best and hope you realise not all southsiders are arrogant,pompus dicks!

One last thing and then Im back to equilibrium Cliques exist in every country whether it is in America or Ireland Timbaktu or France....it is just human nature...and I am not completly clued into the American High school all I relly know is from what I see on realty shows such as Made...usually where ugly girls want to be pretty or accepted with the cool kids! Surely Ireland is not that bad? ok done now

Orionetheus

Dragan wrote:

Emmmmm...... exactly?????? So you , just like the poeple you claim you don;t like, surrounded yourself with people who would agree with you. You have just proven my point....anywhere, here's the full version of my thoguhts.

Oops, pushed submit too soon,

They also disagree on many (more) other fronts, I don't like Yes men.

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

R0ot wrote:

I concur

lol whats rooty doing in the LC thread? :P you should be doing some survivor thing right about now?

Dragan

Orionetheus wrote:

Oops, pushed submit too soon,

They also disagree on many (more) other fronts, I don't like Yes men.

Nothing to comment on the rest of my reply? no?

Orionetheus

It says more of the same that everyone else says.

Basically, I'm not arrogant, I'm confident. I like working hard on something, studying is something I can't do(easily) I still manage to, while the actual exam is amazing when looking for standardisation.....it is useless in real life. College professors (in trinity esp.) hate the LC because kids don't know how to interpret data and read between the lines....the first year of college is spent deprogramming the kids...

Attractive Nun

For a man who, in the space of a longish 'report' on the education system, managed to express bigotted attitudes to (amongst others, I'm sure) 'goths', 'emo-kids', southsiders, Irish people in general and seemingly 'scumbags', I'm really not surprised that you didn't make hordes of friends.

Equally, for a man who shouted at his teachers, dyed his hair pink, got detention dozens of times and achieved only Cs and Ds in exams, I'm not surprised you weren't regarded all that highly amongst the teaching staff.

I happen to think that the Irish culture of slagging each other is probably the best culture in the world (yes, I lift my writing from alcohol ads), but whatever you think, it's exactly that, culture. If you don't like it, fine, but don't go writing a childish, illogical and poorly written 'report' on how stupid we all are. I'm not too fond of the Algerian cultural inclination towards stoning women but you don't see me calling Algeria 'the land of Mussie Bastards'.

And before anyone else says that that hella cool blog is objective, please learn the meaning of the word.

Orionetheus

Most of the staff knows of my troubles, not with the school, but many of them experienced life abroad and they know how different it is and how insanely difficult it is to adjust this late in my life to an Irish school system.

I got detention maybe 12 times, only went to 4. I'm very good at talking my way out of things.
The hair, it was a one day temp thing intended as a joke.
While I do classify people into a "goth" "emo" "southside" "scumbag" that doesn't stop me from getting to know people and liking them, I have rocker friends, I have emo friends, I have goth friends, I have d4 friends.

I made plenty of friends outside the school. It kept me sane.

Objective means that the blog is free of emotion and deals with fact, IE a newspaper reporter writes fact, an opinionist column is subjective, or opinion.

And nun, if you had been through everything I had, you probably would have shouted at that one teacher during a period of high stress....keep that in mind. Don't assume.

JackKelly

How did this end up here?!

Orionetheus

What do you mean?

Dragan

Nope, your not confident, your just arrogant dude.

"pointless rules", showing up late "by choice", shouting at teachers, making stereotypical comments about several large groups of people…….thats all arrogance my friend.

Hate to break it to you.

Orionetheus

I think in logic, not in rules. I dont hurt anyone by not following (most) of these rules.

eamoss

God that was a lot of reading from between the report and the 108 posts. In my school there is 5th years working around the school doing jobs(painting ect.) one of them got his mohican dyed pink and my principal(who was a teacher in wesley college last year) was sent home even tho they are in there normal clothes.

But he is back now wearing a hat.

Now I know noting about dying hair but why didnt you tell your principal that it would come off in the wash and do it there is school?

Orionetheus

I did.......

Attractive Nun

Students who continually attempt to talk their way out of things don't exactly endear themselves to their teachers either. You broke (many of) the rules, and got expelled. Harsh, perhaps (I don't know), but tough ****.

And if everything you've been through means moving to a new country, then no, I haven't, but many of my friends have and they are doing fine. But if it just means having frustrating teachers, being unhappy about the Leaving Cert and feeling under pressure to get good resluts or whatever, then yes, every Leaving Cert student has (although personally I don't see what all the fuss is about). If it's something else you haven't revealed, then I apologise for not being psychic.

And I know what the word objective means. Your report dealt purely with your personal experiences in Ireland, was heavily influenced by your emotions and personal attitudes towards various people and was completely one-sided. It was subjective. (I realise it hardly matters)

Dragan

Orionetheus wrote:

I think in logic, not in rules. I dont hurt anyone by not following (most) of these rules.

And in that is the root of your arrogance. Wow " I live by logic". Dude, your 17, living by logic at 17 is a sad state of affairs.

When I was 17 I was living on emotion, I think most people were. Give it a go.

Living by logic doesn’t mean a thing, if you in a system you abide by the rules of that system. If you don't like it then find a new one. I imagine you didn't like school from the get go, so why not tell you Mam, "I hate this school" and see about finding a new one????

As I said, Logic is not really what it seems. True Logic cannot lie, however Logic as interpretted by most people is false, and just a tool to make them feel better about things of justify there actions.

Whether you hurt someone or not is not the issue. The issue is that you are an almost an adult, a rule was explained and a consequence was explained. You broke the rules and had to deal with the consequence which you don't seem to have been able to do.

The simply fact is that you were in the wrong, but that deep seethed arrogance of youth that you cling to makes you feel you've been hard done by.

You haven't really. Your just not able to deal with things right now. You'll get there i imagine.

EWheelChair

For someone who doesn't like south siders, you sound an awfull lot like one.. snobby and arrogant.

Orionetheus

Don't ever call me that again.

I am far from being a southsider, I talk differently, I think differently, I have morales and humility (despite many of you not seeing it in this thread I don't blame you), I dress differently, I am different.

Deal with it.

Dragan

Orionetheus wrote:

Don't ever call me that again.

I am far from being a southsider, I talk differently, I think differently, I have morales and humility (despite many of you not seeing it in this thread I don't blame you), I dress differently, I am different.

Deal with it.

They didn't call you anything. They said you sound snobby and arrogant, which you have already equated as being characteristics of a southsider.

Therefore, if is only logical that the poster should make this reference given some of your earlier comments.

homeOwner

Orionetheus wrote:

Don't ever call me that again.

I am far from being a southsider, I talk differently, I think differently, I have morales and humility (despite many of you not seeing it in this thread I don't blame you), I dress differently,

Yeah, you've got humility in spades.

Are you saying that all southsiders have no morals?

Orionetheus wrote:

I am different.

ok, keep telling yourself that......

nedward

EDIT: Do that again and you're banned.

Hobbes

Orionetheus wrote:

but many of them experienced life abroad and they know how different it is and how insanely difficult it is to adjust this late in my life to an Irish school system.

what are you? like 60 years old? Sounds like something from "Strangers with candy".

I got detention maybe 12 times, only went to 4.

which just futher points you out as a trouble student who is always right, its the world that is wrong.

Bit like a closet Emo.

exiot

After reading your review of the Irish school system, I have 3 words for you

GET OVER IT

All schools aren't like that, in America your going to get schools exactly like the one in Dublin. My school is like that but I enjoyed my schooling years, I feel sorry for the people had to put up with your snobbery and your ignorance. Please go home

Orionetheus

exiot wrote:

All schools aren't like that, in America your going to get schools exactly like the one in Dublin. My school is like that but I enjoyed my schooling years, I feel sorry for the people had to put up with your snobbery and your ignorance. Please go home

*falls out of chair laughing*

Have you gone to school in America? Don't assume.

jimi_t

From that travesty of a blog wrote:

If I am in normal street walker clothes, I am myself, I am attractive, unique and hence more appealing to women as well, and I don’t look the same as every other school boy and have more of an air of self worth and accomplishment.

No comment needed here, though I doubt your own sense of self worth or accomplishment is affected at all...

As I said I came from an American background and living in Ireland has given me time to form a sufficiently fair based opinion on Irish students and Irish people, they have no confidence, no sense of individuality, standing out from a crowd is a no-no, and should I stand out I get detention or a trip to the principals office.

Try reading a bit about the history of Ireland, the year 1916 might be of particular interest

Uniform dressing promotes uniform thinking, the Nazi’s used the technique on their “Hitler’s Youth” to bring them up as little junior Nazi’s. Our society should not think uniformly, it prevents new radical ideas that could change the world. The idea of that makes me want to use this tie to hang myself.

You're comparing a system designed to break down the social barriers brought about by designer, branded clothes - basically against the whole "d4 movement" you proclaim to hate so much - to the Hitler Youth? What kind of moron are you?!