Final Group A & B Games today

fade2black

haha brilliant/

bazzman

2-2

Aquos76

2-2 Larrson. Woeful defending for England

YeatsCounty

Larsson finally opens his account. Here's hoping for a Swedish winner now and a Germany vs England match. :-p

PHB

I hate Sven's tactics, I hope he gets fired for that. STOP TRYING TO HOLD ONTO LEADS

What the **** is Cole doing for that goal, running away from the ball? Campbell missed it, but Cole was just weird.

Aquos76

Really though, England are ****ing useless.

fade2black

But Paraguay score in the other one against the run of play. Poor Trinidad. Poor me (and my draw double)

crosstownk

How I'd love to see Germany v England next week............

PHB

He's played centre back all season though. Can't be easy to adjust to playing right back just like that. Usually he wouldn't have to worry about getting forward.

That's the only reason he's in the squad. If he can't play as a RB, Young should be in the squad instead of him, considering he's the 4th choice CB.

---

I think Gerrard and Lampard don't create enough chances to play in a midfield that isn't a 4-3-3

Lemlin

PHB wrote:

That's the only reason he's in the squad. If he can't play as a RB, Young should be in the squad instead of him, considering he's the 4th choice CB.

He should be 2nd choice ahead of Rio and Ferdinand. He's in the squad for his versatility.

PHB

He should be 2nd choice ahead of Rio and Ferdinand. He's in the squad for his versatility.

Whether should be or not is irrelevent, he isn't.

If he's in the squad for his versatility, he should be able to play as a RB or a LB, he can't do it effectivly at the top level [nor should he be expected to, he is a CB]

He isn't able to do this, so he shouldn't be in the squad, cause in Sven's mind he is 4th choice CB.
It was silly to bring him along, Young should be there.

mike65

Lemlin re Beckham and the right wing, I was'nt cogging!

Good to see Gerrard scoring again, maybe this'll help send a message to Sven.

Mike.

Necronomicon

The defending for the second Sweden equaliser was probably the single worst piece of defending I've seen in this tournament! How many players did it go over?

bazzman

paraguay winning happy days. my 21/1 has just came off, life feels so better now:)

Anam

Not the best performance from England,they looked suspect at defending set pieces.

Lampard did alright,much improved from his last performance although not at his best.Beckham contributes nothing really,especially when his free kicks arent going well.tbh i think gerrard and lampard should be allowed take set pieces sometimes,beckham takes all of them but gerrard and lampard are excellent at them too.

Whatever about Lampard or Gerrard,i think its important that Hargreaves plays,he performed the DM role very well imo.

DOLEMAN

To the lads who put me off betting on the low card game... grrrr!!!!!

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote:

I hate Sven's tactics, I hope he gets fired for that. STOP TRYING TO HOLD ONTO LEADS.

I have a strong feeling in my water that he will lose his job soon.:)


Bookies really dont fancy A.Cole to score. He was at long odds all through the match and went to 80-1 with about 20 mins left. Wayne Bridge was 66-1, even after the 3 subs came on. Cole stayed at 80's.

Is Gerrard more worth the midfield place more than Lampard yet? anyone hear the stat near the start? Lampard has had more shots in this wc than anyone else, still hasnt managed to score.

acquiescefc

What a disaster ...we won the group and Rooney threw a paddy.

So what.

My god, ive just watched those pr!cks on RTE and you'd think we'd lost 4 nil.

Im sorry but Rooney was probably pist cos he wanted to play 90 minutes. Weve just played a whole game without the countries 'alleged' best striker.

Is that Al Pacino on the panel btw?

mike65

its important that Hargreaves plays,he performed the DM role very well imo.

Indeed Canuck in good game shock! That might make things easier for Sven esp as Owen is crooked for the rest of the tournament regardless of how far England go. Gerrard playing off Crouch or alongside Rooney?

Mike.

Aquos76

I actually agree with a lot of the stuff that the RTE guys are saying. Something is not right within the English camp. As a team they seem to get worse as the game goes on.

PHB

Gerrard is not good enough playing with his back to goal to play as a front man in a 4-4-2, it's not what he is good at. If it is a 4-4-2, Sven is stuck with Crouch and Rooney

mike65

He would'nt play 4-4-2 rather it would be behind Crouch playing off Hargreaves.

---

Robinson
Carra/Nev-Terry-Ferdinand-Cole

---

Hargreaves
Beckham

---

Lampard

---

Cole

---

Gerrard

---

Crouch

Mike.

Anam

England completely lost their shape when Gerrard came on,4-5-1 is not an option for them imo.It has to be either Gerrard or Lampard alongside Hargreaves,and Lampard is not on form.The decision isnt that hard tbh.

kinaldo

Why are Newcastle so unlucky with injuries? Somebody ask Souness quick! ah too late show is over.

Aquos76

mike65 wrote:

He would'nt play 4-4-2 rather it would be behind Crouch playing off Hargreaves.

---

Robinson
Carra/Nev-Terry-Ferdinand-Cole

---

Hargreaves
Beckham

---

Lampard

---

Cole

---

Gerrard

---

Crouch


Mike.

So you'd have no place for Rooney... Interesting.

Guy:Incognito

Aquos76 wrote:

So you'd have no place for Rooney... Interesting.

It's a cunning plan alright.

acquiescefc

kinaldo wrote:

Why are Newcastle so unlucky with injuries? Somebody ask Souness quick! ah too late show is over.

Why are they all sat there? Because theyre not managers.

Cant wait to see Rooney-rage on the pitch next week. Channelled of course.

Owens nowt special, damn shame hes gonna be knackered but Crouch will get one outta 10 chances.

mike65

There's room for Rrooney if its a different formation, That would be 4-1-3-2 (1-1) and would mean Lampard would be dropped for best effect

---

Robinson
Carra/Nev--Terry--Rio--Cole

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Hargreaves
Beckham---Gerrard---Cole

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Rooney

---

Crouch

Mike.

PHB

I like it Mike, drop one of your two real attacking threats.

Even if you wanted to play one up front, Rooney would still be better at it than Crouch.
While Rooney is naturally a striker playing a bit of a withdrawn role, he can still play as an out and out, better than Crouch can.

The only reason to keep crouch in the squad in that case is because of knockdowns, in which case, you might as well just make it a long ball team, and bring in Kevin Moran

Aquos76

acquiescefc wrote:

Why are they all sat there? Because theyre not managers.

Nor is that clown who is in charge of England at the moment. He has really messed up some of those players.

Attractive Nun

Oberservations:

I'd really be looking forward to Neville's return if I were English. Carragher and Beckham on the right wing=no right wing, effectively.

Gerrard again shows why he can't be shackled at the behest of Lampard, who seems to have forgotten how to shoot, but did alright today generally.

Another game or two and Rooney should be firing on all cylinders.

Hargreaves did well enough, in the first half anyway, and proves what pretty much everyone has been saying for the past two weeks: you need a defensive midfielder.

I wonder did the loss of Ferdinand (whose job it was to initiate the passing in midfield) worsen England's downfall in the second half?

I'm quite surprised that England were so vulnerable under set pieces tbh, I had rated their defense as pretty solid.

Overall, pretty bad performance, but I think if the formation/style of play can be sorted out, I'm more optimistic for England after this game than after any other.

therecklessone

acquiescefc wrote:

Why are they all sat there? Because theyre not managers.

Its Summer. Club managers get the Summer off (if they were employed...)

RE*AC*TOR

I think the time has come to drop Beckham and play gerrard ont he right. Hargreaves was decent enough tonight, although I imagine Carrick could be even better in that role. Lampard is still not showing his best, but everyone must surely admit Joe Cole is delivering the goods.

Crouch is playing OK. But with Owen's injury Crouch is going to play.

I don;t know why Rooney acted like such a brat, but when he was on the pitch he definetly provided better options and contributed a lot. England better hope he doesn't pick up an injury.

Also - Carragher is a great defender, but in the full back position you are also expected, at this level to get forward and be somewhat creative. He isn't.

Bottom line, Lampard / Hargreaves worked better than Lampard / Gerrard - but Gerrard is likely to get goals - Beckham contributing nothing - drop beckham. Rooney and Crouch need to stay fit now - and Crouch is not good enough at this level to be a lone striker.

Attractive Nun

How about:

---

Robinson
Carra/Nev--Terry--Rio--Cole

---

Hargreaves
Gerrard---Lampard---Cole

---

Rooney

---

Crouch

I know it won't happen, but as much as I hate to agree with Eamonn Dunphy, the only thing Beckham offers England is superb set piece play. Admittedly, that's been their major threat recently, but today they scored two without his involvement (I don't think Gerrard's goal was from a Beckham cross, but I can't remember) and in honesty his delivery has been average the past two games. And if I'm not mistaken, Mr Lampard and Mr Gerrard aren't too bad at the old free kicks, and Mr Rooney takes a decent corner. Stick Gerrard in a role similar to the one he plays for Liverpool, and get Lampard to drop back a bit if needs be. Beckham is, for me, pointless atm.

EDIT: Oh, and Theo Walcott. Oh dear that was a mistake.

mike65

Good thoughts except we all know Beckham will never be dropped.

Mike.

Lemlin

PHB wrote:

I like it Mike, drop one of your two real attacking threats.

Even if you wanted to play one up front, Rooney would still be better at it than Crouch.
While Rooney is naturally a striker playing a bit of a withdrawn role, he can still play as an out and out, better than Crouch can.

The only reason to keep crouch in the squad in that case is because of knockdowns, in which case, you might as well just make it a long ball team, and bring in Kevin Moran

Its great to see that every argument on this board always gets dragged back to Liverpool vs Man United, Liverpool vs Chelsea or United vs. Chelsea.

fade2black

Lemlin wrote:

Its great to see that every argument on this board always gets dragged back to Liverpool vs Man United, Liverpool vs Chelsea or United vs. Chelsea.

Lemlin

fade2black wrote:

You must be easy to confuse

As per usual, we have a Liverpool fan arguing for a Liverpool player to play and a United fan arguing for a United player to play. Both are letting their allegiance to their club get in the way of what England should do.

mike65

You'll have noted I include Rooney in one selection. I have no problem with Man Utd players in a white shirt.

Mike.

acquiescefc

Well i thought it was nice to see Niclas Alexandersson again. Been along time.

If we are going 'club'bing.

mike65

Ho-hum a spot of rioting between German/English. Sounds like the Germans started it (phew ).

Mike.

mchurl

mike65 wrote:

Good thoughts except we all know Beckham will never be dropped.

Mike.

I agree, Sven wouldnt have the bottle to do it. I feel England lack real pace out wide, Joe cole has to keep coming inside and Beckham for all his quality passing etc., lacks the pace of a top class winger. I know Lennon is in-experienced, but i think he may well be worth a shot.

Kingp35

Same old England. Poor performance but still manage to get a result. The team just doesnt seem to gel together and I really cant see them getting past the quarter finals. Ecuador will give them a right good game as well.

therecklessone

mike65 wrote:

Sounds like the Germans started it (phew ).

Mike.

Invaded Poland again?

Guy:Incognito

therecklessone wrote:

Invaded Poland again?

The americans will probably turn up next monday.:)

therecklessone

Stekelly wrote:

The americans will probably turn up next monday.:)

They're playing Ghana 3pm Thursday, so expect a sneaky Japanese attack before noon...they'll be back in Dortmund for an 8pm kick-off against Brazil!!!

eirebhoy

Total of tackles commited by Gerrard and Lampard in a combined total of 472 minutes - 17.

Total tackles commited by Owen Hargreaves in 98 minutes of play - 17.

I think Lampard let Hargreaves do all the work tonight off the ball as he put in no more than 2 or 3 tackles. Ridiculous.

mike65

I have a vision of eirebhoy leaning forward towards the tv with a piece of paper, pen and a count clicker!

Mike.

eirebhoy

mike65 wrote:

I have a vision of eirebhoy leaning forward towards the tv with a piece of paper, pen and a count clicker!

Mike.

Lemlin

mike65 wrote:

I have a vision of eirebhoy leaning forward towards the tv with a piece of paper, pen and a count clicker!

Mike.

I imagine him more playing darts with a picture of Frank Lampard on the bullseye