Keeping cats indoors

CookieCat

You have made the point for me...Human emotions:cool: Cats can be owned and are by those who project human emotions and human values onto them or those who believe they are the easy out door option. I have a run for my own cats and encourage folks to do the same or cat proof their garden. Guess what the majority of them can't be bothered.

Please give details of why an indoor cat is unstable....That would be down to lazy ownership and again folks who just can't be bothered to stimulate their cat(s). And the same folks religiously walk their dogs and have safe enclosed areas for them to be SAFE in why discriminate agianst the cat.

I shall not be letting my cats out to be injured by uncaring humans, run over posioned nor subjected to FIV FeLV or the dreaded FIP for those who think that's ok shame on you.
Claire X

eiretamicha

CookieCat wrote:

You have made the point for me...Human emotions:cool: Cats can be owned and are by those who project human emotions and human values onto them or those who believe they are the easy out door option. I have a run for my own cats and encourage folks to do the same or cat proof their garden. Guess what the majority of them can't be bothered.

Please give details of why an indoor cat is unstable....That would be down to lazy ownership and again folks who just can't be bothered to stimulate their cat(s). And the same folks religiously walk their dogs and have safe enclosed areas for them to be SAFE in why discriminate agianst the cat.

I shall not be letting my cats out to be injured by uncaring humans, run over posioned nor subjected to FIV FeLV or the dreaded FIP for those who think that's ok shame on you.
Claire X

I am baffled at the amount of words you put into my mouth.

I have stated that cats who cannot be let outdoors to roam should be harness and leash trained. This means taking them outdoors while attached to a leash. In a similar fashion, owning a run for kitties is wonderful, and should by all means be done for kitties who cannot have full access to the outdoors. Cats should never be discriminated against...not sure where you got that from? Cats have just as much right as dogs to fresh air and exercise.

Raising unstable indoor kitties is NOT always directly as a result of lazy pet-owners. Cats are natural predators and explorers. If one of your most basic, natural instincts was not granted to you, you would also become unstable. It is common sense here. Just as zoo-lions can lose their emotional stability when confined to cages all their lives, so too can domestic cats.

In response to the "don't project human emotions on cats" argument, I can only say that I do not view cats as lesser creatures than humans, simply different creatures, and equally deserving of respect. This is, of course, my own personal way of thinking that I in no way try to force on other people.

EGAR

CookieCat wrote:

No interesting, please share how you reached that opinion:rolleyes: . Though now I am confused. Do we believe the research and the so called experts or the have a go Joe's.;)

I believe in the experience I have made, is that simple enough for you? Please don't try to impose your opinion on me in a way to make mine sound inferior . "Research" always depends on whos researching and to what end, for every research pro there are researches con.

CookieCat wrote:

Is it not responsible management for a rescue to give out researched advice about their chosen breed?

I have not chosen cats as my primary rescue *target* but dog, bull breeds in particular. The cats I have here every now and then are dumped on my door step. If you as rescue are convinced that indoor life is best for a cat, go right ahead, I am not trying to persuade you otherwise. But please allow me my own opinion .

CookieCat wrote:

Now I am off to walk the dog where is the choke chain;)
Calire Xc

Whatever makes you happy

Sarah

fuzzywiggle

I was just reading this article the other day. (I have 2 cats. They like it both outside and in doors) Anyway thought you might like to read it also!

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/indooroutdoor.htm

eiretamicha

fuzzywiggle wrote:

I was just reading this article the other day. (I have 2 cats. They like it both outside and in doors) Anyway thought you might like to read it also!

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/indooroutdoor.htm

I like that article, thank you for sharing. While I don't agree with all of it (many of the "pros" can be turned with simple things such as microchipping, and do not apply to animals that live in very rural environments), it is, for the most part, balanced and informative.

Tabitharose

nollaig wrote:

What I meant was tha dogs can attack people and do that type of damage, Cats wont do that

there was a news article on tv3 last night about a cat in the us whose life was spared by the courts after he attached several of his owners neighbours. he was spared being pts on the condition that he be kept indoors for the rest of his life.....

gerrycollins

im gonna throw the whole thing into chaos here if ye all bare with me

I have an indoor cat who we adopted from the "wild"(she wandered in never left) we neutered her and got all her jabs etc and she is so content in the house(2yrs now) i dont think she would leave even though she makes a run for the door to be brought out by hand every now and then

once ages ago she got out and my wife was petrified but when my wife rattled one of her play balls the cat came runing back

now the next problem we have just had a baby girl and the cat is in a cattery at the mo and we are wondering what the cats reaction to the baby will be tomorrow when we bring her home!!

the wife is saying that if it doesnt work out the cat will have to go out but i dont want the cat to get the impression that we are throwing it out cause of the new baby,i migth accicdently leave the door open see her reaction but i know if it doesnt come back my wife will be devastated (it was our baby before this) so how can i win,plus god knows what the cat will bring back into the house with it!

I think the baby and cat will get along fine and most of the stories i have heard are friend of a friend and not actual first hand anyone here have a similar situation?any advice appreciated

Garth

eiretamicha wrote:

I like that article, thank you for sharing. While I don't agree with all of it (many of the "pros" can be turned with simple things such as microchipping, and do not apply to animals that live in very rural environments), it is, for the most part, balanced and informative.

It's funny how nobody actually says "I don't care about our ecological balance, about birds, mice or other native creatures. I also don't care that my cats use someone's garden as a toilet, possibly endangering children who play there. It's easier for me to think my cat is happy outdoors so I don't have to change a litter tray, and if he gets sick and dies from a preventable disease, or dies being hit by a car, oh well. I simply don't have the inclination to play with my cat enough or to actually provide an adequate environment." When they obviously feel that way.

Tabitharose

http://cats.about.com/cs/catmanagement101/a/newbabyandcat.htm

new baby & your cat

eiretamicha

Garth wrote:

It's funny how nobody actually says "I don't care about our ecological balance, about birds, mice or other native creatures. I also don't care that my cats use someone's garden as a toilet, possibly endangering children who play there. It's easier for me to think my cat is happy outdoors so I don't have to change a litter tray, and if he gets sick and dies from a preventable disease, or dies being hit by a car, oh well. I simply don't have the inclination to play with my cat enough or to actually provide an adequate environment." When they obviously feel that way.

Seeing as I have one indoor/outdoor cat, and one strictly indoor kitty who only goes outside on a leash, I do feel the need to point out that I do, indeed, have a litter try.

As I have been a veterinary technician since the age of 16, both my cats are thoroughly vaccinated against Rabies, Leukemia (FeLV), and Aids (FIV)--I don't, however, agree with the chemical composition of the FIP vaccine, so my kitties are not vaccinated against that one.

My husband stays at home right now while waiting for his work authorization, and my indoor cat is his baby. I can show you about 30 pictures of my kitties that my husband takes of them almost every day. My dog, as well, if you'd like to see those. My outdoor/indoor kitty, Jezebel? Yep, her too. In fact, she mostly stays in our rather large back yard, and actually enjoys chasing after toys outside--toys that we throw for her.

They are fed a very pure, fresh diet of raw meat and bones, which can be quite pricey on only one income. Alas, my animals mean more to me than the likes of you could ever possibly understand, so my husband and I go without in order to give the best care possible to my animals.

As for ecological balance? That was long ago disrupted by the introduction of foreign plant and animal life, and will never be restored to its natural state. Ever. No matter how many cats we keep prisoner.

eiretamicha

Just thought you all might like to see pictures of my poor understimulated animals who live in an inadequate environment because I dont' care enough about them to provide for them and play with them.













And the famous litterbox!

Arcadian

eiretamicha wrote:

Alas, my animals mean more to me than the likes of you could ever possibly understand,

With respect ''the likes of you'' is an awful way to refer to anybody:(

Regarding the FIV vaccine, have you any links to up to date research on it? It's not available on this side of the world and everything i've found on line is pretty out-dated and suggests that it is relatively ineffective as well as the problem of cats testing positive for the disease once vacc'd.

eiretamicha

Arcadian wrote:

With respect ''the likes of you'' is an awful way to refer to anybody:(

Regarding the FIV vaccine, have you any links to up to date research on it? It's not available on this side of the world and everything i've found on line is pretty out-dated and suggests that it is relatively ineffective as well as the problem of cats testing positive for the disease once vacc'd.

You're absolutley right, "the likes of you" is a terrible way to refer to somebody. But I also didn't appreciate basically being called an irresponsible pet-owner. That made my temper boil, as I'm sure it would anyone. Still, I shouldn't have said it.

If given the chance, and if I lived in a rural area, I would take back almost all the vaccinations I have ever given to my animals barring the Rabies vaccination, but that's because I live in Central Florida where Rabies is a big problem. The risks these vaccines pose far outweigh the benefits.

The FIV vaccine does indeed cause an FIV test to come up positive--something to think about should your kitty ever need to be rehomed (as new owners may not know your kitty has been vaccinated, and therefore think kitty has FIV). According to Dr. Pitcairn, as far as is known, FIV is spread only through bite wounds--from fighting--not from close physical or sexual contact. Therefore, the disease is more common in unneutered males. A common symptom of this disease is an inflamed mouth with periodontal disease and loose teeth. Prevention is the most important way to view this disease, because once established, it is too late. Keeping your cat healthy by using a raw, fresh diet increases its chance of resistance, and of course, keeping it from roaming and fighting significantly reduces the chance of infection.

The most important thing to remember is to NEVER vaccinate a kitty that is suspected of having FIV (or Leukemia for that matter) as this stresses the body and depresses the immune system.

CookieCat

Well people like us is as good as it gets in Ireland and sometimes I am down right ashamed to be Irish by the way we as a nation view our animals.
Point 1. Where did I direct that you were an irresponsible cat owner by not stimulating your cat(s) Even if I squint I can't se that.
Point 2. The human emotion re projection. Your choice of diet for your cats. Did they decide that or did you on their behalf.

Perhaps the good ole US of A has got it right, but somehow I don't think so either. I have never worked in animal welfare in the states but Jan who runs kitten adoption has been over a few times and is in contact with Alley cats and Dr Susan Little et al. So we are not blindly advocating INDOOR HOMES. We again have studied the FACTS,the research and based our re homing criteria on that.

Sarah I am converse with your rescue in fact by proxy a few years ago I transported a dog half way to Galway from Saggart pound which I belive went to you. Strange lady called Gail (I think) was involved...Strange in a whacky way. And I belive you do sterling work with these dogs.:)

The point I am making to you Sarah about the breeds we chose to rescue or get involved with is to know the breed inside out do the research, keep up to date with information. I chose to help out with cats, knowing that Jan does know her stuff INSIDE out. And I would challenge anyone to constructively disprove that. So I shall stick with her, her rescue and her knowledge and I am not for shifting thanks.

I am not involved in Bull Breed rescue, as I don't know enough about the animal. And it would be very irresponsible for me to rescue and re home a breed I have little or no researched knowledge in.

As for the comment about the FAT indoor cat that was un called for.

fuzzywiggle

Aaaah Eiretamicha!! Just had to say those cats are absolutely adorable!! My cats are exactly like the one in the second picture! One of them even sleeps like that too! They look very happy

eiretamicha

CookieCat, I was replying to Garth, not to you, when I made that snide remark about "the likes of you" in response to his insinuation that I was an irresponsible pet-owner, and I was in no way referring to "people in Ireland" but instead to close-minded people who can't understand why the whole world doesn't agree with 100% of everything they say. We will never all agree on absolutley everything, and that's ok! The world would be so boring if everyone believed the same thing all the time.

Point 2. The human emotion re projection. Your choice of diet for your cats. Did they decide that or did you on their behalf.

I'm not sure I understand this one. My human emotions have nothing to do with the diet I feed my cats. I feed my cats a pure diet of fresh food because it is as close to the natural diet they would eat in the wild. Feeding an animal meat-flavoured cereal is quite simply the same as feeding your child chocolate-covered protein bars for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Sure, protein bars are loaded with vitamins and minerals, but they are also loaded with sugars, hydrogenated oils, and preservatives. It's simply not a healthy, natural diet. I feed my animals a fresh, raw diet because that's what's necessary for them to maintain optimal health. I feed them this diet because it's the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with my human emotions.

I don't understand why this debate has to continue. I believe that cats should be allowed outdoors, you do not. There are many points I do agree with you on, though, such as providing enclosed outdoor environments for kitty, taking them out on a leash, and not allowing them to roam the streets if you live in an area with high-levels of traffic. I simply cannot agree with you, however, on the fact that cats can happily and healthily stay indoors for the duration of their lives. It just isn't natural.

If I have said anything on here that offended anyone, I apologize, as that truly was not my intention.

eiretamicha

fuzzywiggle wrote:

Aaaah Eiretamicha!! Just had to say those cats are absolutely adorable!! My cats are exactly like the one in the second picture! One of them even sleeps like that too! They look very happy

Thank you! They're my babies!!

nollaig

there was a news article on tv3 last night about a cat in the us whose life was spared by the courts after he attached several of his owners neighbours. he was spared being pts on the condition that he be kept indoors for the rest of his life.....

Geez, 1 case in the whole world and it was probably a case of people over reacting, It is America after all

EGAR

CookieCat wrote:

Sarah I am converse with your rescue in fact by proxy a few years ago I transported a dog half way to Galway from Saggart pound which I belive went to you. Strange lady called Gail (I think) was involved...Strange in a whacky way. And I belive you do sterling work with these dogs.:)

The point I am making to you Sarah about the breeds we chose to rescue or get involved with is to know the breed inside out do the research, keep up to date with information. I chose to help out with cats, knowing that Jan does know her stuff INSIDE out. And I would challenge anyone to constructively disprove that. So I shall stick with her, her rescue and her knowledge and I am not for shifting thanks.

I am not involved in Bull Breed rescue, as I don't know enough about the animal. And it would be very irresponsible for me to rescue and re home a breed I have little or no researched knowledge in.

As for the comment about the FAT indoor cat that was un called for.

Hehe, you measured Gail up all right . Haven't heard from her in years. Last I heard she withdrew from it all as her nerves couldn't take it .

I am not attacking the way you or Jan are re-homing cats. All I am saying is that we are of different opinion.

I do not choose to rescue cats, they are dumped on me and the few (mostly kittens) that end up here will be rehomed into rural homes with the option of being outside. I live remote and I re-home the cats locally so that I can check up on the spaying/neutering as well as to make the HC's easier for me.

The remark of the FAT cat indoors was not from me.

Sarah

Garth

eiretamicha wrote:

As for ecological balance? That was long ago disrupted by the introduction of foreign plant and animal life, and will never be restored to its natural state. Ever. No matter how many cats we keep prisoner.

So... other people have wrecked it so why bother trying? Loads of birds, who cares if we lose another species. Jeez. Money on you driving an SUV and having the exact same answer for that.

As for "the likes of you" and calling other people's cats fat, sure go ahead if it makes you feel big.

I DO hope your kitties are happy and well cared for and VERY much hope they never meet a grizzly end like so many outdoor cats do.

I simply cannot agree with you, however, on the fact that cats can happily and healthily stay indoors for the duration of their lives. It just isn't natural.

Cats in this part of the world isn't natural. Tonnes of metal and plastic hurtling down the road at 60 mph isn't natural. If you don't think cats have evolved to eat cooked food, then you can't possibly believe they've evolved to cope with modern traffic, machinery and sadists. If natural what you're worried about, don't own a cat. Don't wear polyester, and don't drive a car. Live in the forest and eat berries. That's natural... I guess.

Have you ever noticed when people disagree with something they always say "it's not natural"... gays, blood transfusions, urbanisation, etc. Total cop-out.

eiretamicha

Garth wrote:

So... other people have wrecked it so why bother trying? Loads of birds, who cares if we lose another species. Jeez. Money on you driving an SUV and having the exact same answer for that.

As for "the likes of you" and calling other people's cats fat, sure go ahead if it makes you feel big.

I DO hope your kitties are happy and well cared for and VERY much hope they never meet a grizzly end like so many outdoor cats do.

Cats in this part of the world isn't natural. Tonnes of metal and plastic hurtling down the road at 60 mph isn't natural. If you don't think cats have evolved to eat cooked food, then you can't possibly believe they've evolved to cope with modern traffic, machinery and sadists. If natural what you're worried about, don't own a cat. Don't wear polyester, and don't drive a car. Live in the forest and eat berries. That's natural... I guess.

Have you ever noticed when people disagree with something they always say "it's not natural"... gays, blood transfusions, urbanisation, etc. Total cop-out.

Domesticated cats are not natural in any part of the world. But c'mon...comparing cats to SUVs? :rolleyes:

If I didn't live in Central Florida, I wouldn't own a car at all. I walk and ride my bike as much as possible, but when your job is 30 miles from your house, you have no choice but to drive, so drive I must (and in a little, pre-owned, very good on petrol Saturn, if you must know). When my husband and I were still in Ireland, we had no car, and were quite happy with that.

Umm...I never called anyone's cat fat. Look back on page 2; I said that an indoor cat can be a FAT cat. You disagree?

I don't believe cats have "evolved to eat cooked food", I don't think vehicles are natural, I don't believe cats have evolved to cope with traffic, and I definitley don't wear polyester.

I never said that cats should just be thrown outside to dodge the cars. I simply stated that cats should be allowed the freedom of the outdoors...whether that be by leash and harness, cat pen, or allowing the kitty to roam in rural areas. This is my belief, and I stand by it 100%--no matter how many times you mock my decision.

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to agree to disagree.

Garth

eiretamicha wrote:

Domesticated cats are not natural in any part of the world. But c'mon...comparing cats to SUVs? :rolleyes:

...

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to agree to disagree.

Cats DO cause havok by preying on creatures who aren't meant to be dodging cats. It's still our ecology whether you can see the effect yet or not.

If everyone just said, "I'm ok you're ok let's agree to disagree" there wouldn't be much to say in a discussion on the merits of indoor-only or indoor/outdoor cats...

eiretamicha

Garth wrote:

Cats DO cause havok by preying on creatures who aren't meant to be dodging cats. It's still our ecology whether you can see the effect yet or not.

Before cats, these same creatures (birds, rodents, etc.) were dodging fox; maybe birds to a lesser extent, but rodents definitley. And fox are native to your land, if I'm not mistaken.

I do hear what you're saying. Yes, cats disrupt the balance, but it is going to keep happening whether or not cats are kept prisoner indoors. And it is still wrong to keep an animal completely confined for the duration of its life. You want a completely indoor kitty? Fine. But at least have the compassion to build a cat-pen or harness and leash train it. No creature should be deprived the basic right of freedom.

Garth wrote:

If everyone just said, "I'm ok you're ok let's agree to disagree" there wouldn't be much to say in a discussion on the merits of indoor-only or indoor/outdoor cats...

Yes, but both of us have been saying the same thing now for the past two pages. Once points are made, a debate is simply an argument under a different name.

Irish-Lass

jaggiebunnet wrote:

I think cats should be allowed out of doors, and i have to say the photograph of the cats in the 1st page of this postproves my thinking that they become overweight by being kept in.

the cats are not over weight and are actually the perfect weight for their age etc......how do I know this cause they were only all down in the vets 2 weeks getting their yearly jabs. And would take the advice of a vets above yours.

Someones comment about cats being able to look after themselves when they are out is laughable......has anyone actually bothered to look at the amount of dead cats on the side of roads I drove from Dublin -to- Carlow yesterday evening and managed to count 9.....may not seem a high number but never seen one dog, did see 2 foxes, 1 badger and what I think looked like a hedgehog. Most people have very little respect of cats, which is sad as they have a lot to offer.

jaggiebunnet

Irish-Lass wrote:

And would take the advice of a vets above yours.

I didn't give advice - I just said they looked overweight - and they do.

Irish-Lass

well they ain't and the vet agrees

doctor evil

CookieCat wrote:

Well people like us is as good as it gets in ireland

I`m bothered by that remark, I look after my animals (animal at the mo) very well thank you very much.

The risk of my cat being injured outside is a risk I`m willing to take so that she can feel the grass underneath her feet (not prepared to fill the garden with runs). Cats are very intelligent creatures and are not stupid. There is risk with everything you do, an indoor cat could end up electrocuting it self by biting through a cable or die of smoke inhalation if heaven forbid there is a fire.

There is a LOT of cats in Ireland, many of which are unwanted, which would mean more would be run over.

Tabitharose

jaggiebunnet wrote:

I didn't give advice - I just said they looked overweight - and they do.

have you run out of logical argument to the extent that you have nothing better to say than try and get at Irish Lass by calling her cats fat?

eiretamicha

Come on guys, let's try to keep this debate friendly so newcomers can simply research the facts when they see this thread.

jaggiebunnet

Tabitharose wrote:

have you run out of logical argument to the extent that you have nothing better to say than try and get at Irish Lass by calling her cats fat?

I was merely clarifying a misunderstanding, which was i never gave any advice.

And I never called them fat.