LittelFuse Closed

Joeface

I think this is the right place for this ,
pardon the grammer ....im alittle annoyed at the mo as if one company goes well im kinda out of a job.
So littelfuse have close 134 jobs gone, In case anyones wondering there a Electonic manufacting company ...Fuses and such.This is the second company in less that 6months that My place of work does buisness with in Ireland that has closed......we are now down to just 2 customers in this sector that my company have left in ireland.When I started im my job about 6 years ago there were 15

now to the reason I posted in the politics section.......HAS IT NOT HIT THEM ,THOSE ELECTED that all these wage agreements will only push inflation here even more resulting in more of these Companies shutting up shop and moving else where , And please dont relpy sayin that ireland is changing to more of a services sector or something like that........U cant keep providing services with out actually producing something ie without having a manufacturing sector.

I mean honestly who here actuall gets a raise every year, without proving that they are preforming any better in there job...........Very few I would say

rant over

Philistine

........U cant keep providing services with out actually producing something ie without having a manufacturing sector.


Not true. Many service providers use equipment manufactured abroad, where they're produced cheaper.



I mean honestly who here actuall gets a raise every year, without proving that they are preforming any better in there job...........Very few I would say

I thought most people did. Even if its only 3% or so, to keep up with inflation ? The only time I here "payrise for productivity" is when IBEC opens its mouth !

DublinWriter

Joeface wrote:

I mean honestly who here actuall gets a raise every year, without proving that they are preforming any better in there job...........Very few I would say

All of us do, it's called the Irish National Pay/Wage Agreement.

I realise that you're angry, but nearly all manufacturing jobs are moving Eastward, that's the harsh global reality and we don't live in an economic bubble.

The future in this part of Europe is in the service sector.

Jackie laughlin

The future in this part of Europe is in the service sector.[/QUOTE]


This is a common cliche. Sometimes "service" is contrasted with "manufacturing" but an open economy has to trade. Service cannot mean a closed economy where we serve one another!

The person at the top of the thread who is worried about the closure of Littelfuse (formerly Ecco) is right. It will take time before it dawns on some of our neo-liberal nutters but the economy is in trouble and it's far more serious than labour costs. Manufacturers are closing and the jobs are not being replaced. I don't have the figures to hand but if public sector job creation and building industry job creation (The latter based on borrowed money!) are discounted, the number of new jobs is modest. Now, if you take out true "service" jobs (e.g. bar workers) the numbers get truly frightening.

In other words, listen to the voice of experience at the top of this thread. If we dismiss such observations, we will regret it. There may still be time to do something about Irish industry.

jesus_thats_gre

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Manufacturers are closing and the jobs are not being replaced. I don't have the figures to hand but if public sector job creation and building industry job creation (The latter based on borrowed money!) are discounted, the number of new jobs is modest. Now, if you take out true "service" jobs (e.g. bar workers) the numbers get truly frightening.

IIRC, 2/3rds of new jobs for men in the past 5 years have in the construction industry. 2/3rds of new jobs for women in the past 5 years have been public sector.

Jackie laughlin

Thanks, Jesus. That's close to the figures I was talking about. I've seen them expressed as absolute figures and they are chilling.

Joeface

Quote Dublinwriter "All of us do, it's called the Irish National Pay/Wage Agreement."
Quote Philistine "I thought most people did. Even if its only 3% or so, to keep up with inflation ? The only time I here "payrise for productivity" is when IBEC opens its mouth !"

Am no we dont.......3% inflation offset increase in wages is only a sugestion not every company can or has to pay this increase in wages......and The Irish National Wage agreement ....... This will not effect my wages or most ppls , agree to pay a minimum wage of what ever it is the only agreed part that most places of employment would agree to .... Only Public SECTOR employees will gain form this .......it would cripple the private sector if they were to agree to this wages http://www.finfacts.com/Private/personel/nationalpayagreement.htm

Any way these wages agreement will only cause more problems in the long run pushing inflation even more

ionapaul

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

IIRC, 2/3rds of new jobs for men in the past 5 years have in the construction industry. 2/3rds of new jobs for women in the past 5 years have been public sector.

Forget about the problems with the service economy selling services to other service providers for a moment - the big, REAL and in all of our near futures problem is the Irish economy which has achieved impressive growth BUILDING HOUSES AND SELLING THEM TO EACH OTHER! Foreign property investors have avoided this country like the plague, for obvious reasons. Maybe we our economy can be better decribed as building houses to sell to the new public sector employees, whose wages are paid for by the Government take of stamp duty on the very same houses!

Hope everyone has their upcoming Irish economy crash escape routes well planned out...

netwhizkid

ionapaul wrote:

Hope everyone has their upcoming Irish economy crash escape routes well planned out...

Mine will be a one way ticket to Cuba.

Jackie laughlin

The national wage deal is a very one for public service workers. (See yesterday's Irish Times.)

Yes, an economy based on building is unsustainable.

John_C

Jackie laughlin wrote:

The national wage deal is a very one for public service workers. (See yesterday's Irish Times.)

Yes, an economy based on building is unsustainable.

That's true but the flip side is that we need to get an awfull lot of stuf built.

ionapaul

John_C wrote:

That's true but the flip side is that we need to get an awfull lot of stuf built.

Not if we are building apartments in rural areas to sell to one another! We need more apartments (well, other than the tens of thousands of empty ones that are wonderfully appreciating even as I write) to rent to the workers we need to build more apartments to rent to the workers we need to build more apartments to rents to the workers...

John_C

ionapaul wrote:

Not if we are building apartments in rural areas to sell to one another! We need more apartments (well, other than the tens of thousands of empty ones that are wonderfully appreciating even as I write) to rent to the workers we need to build more apartments to rent to the workers we need to build more apartments to rents to the workers...

And not just that, we need more roads and railways, schools and creches etc, etc...

Employing so many people in one sector is a risk but I don't see that we have a choice but to take it.

Jackie laughlin

My previous post should have read that the pay deal is a very poor one for public service workers.

All of this building is eating BORROWED capital.

Could we all go back to the top of the thread. It starts with a man or woman all too aware that Ireland is in deep trouble and that we need an industrial policy AGAIN.

Hotblack Desiato

Joeface wrote:

3% inflation offset increase in wages is only a sugestion not every company can or has to pay this increase in wages......and The Irish National Wage agreement ....... This will not effect my wages or most ppls

So how can you blame national wage agreements for pushing up inflation then?

Jackie laughlin

Minor wage inflation is a sideshow to the main issue. See thread "whistling past the graveyard".

mhenness

Jackie laughlin wrote:

The future in this part of Europe is in the service sector.

This is a common cliche. Sometimes "service" is contrasted with "manufacturing" but an open economy has to trade. Service cannot mean a closed economy where we serve one another!

The person at the top of the thread who is worried about the closure of Littelfuse (formerly Ecco) is right. It will take time before it dawns on some of our neo-liberal nutters but the economy is in trouble and it's far more serious than labour costs. Manufacturers are closing and the jobs are not being replaced. I don't have the figures to hand but if public sector job creation and building industry job creation (The latter based on borrowed money!) are discounted, the number of new jobs is modest. Now, if you take out true "service" jobs (e.g. bar workers) the numbers get truly frightening.

In other words, listen to the voice of experience at the top of this thread. If we dismiss such observations, we will regret it. There may still be time to do something about Irish industry.

The problem with taking something that is one persons experience is that it is just that...one persons experience. By the way I do empathize with their situation. We have known for a long time that manufacturing is becoming too expensive to do in Ireland for many types of manufacturing. We are still competitive in many areas like the high end ICT sector. Fact is, as a country develops it eventually moves on to higher end activities. This is where Ireland is trying to go. I think at last the government (or at least their advisors) are showing some real vision by wanting to promote Ireland as a country that wants to become a knowledge based economy. If we are successful at producing a workforce that is able to work in this new economy we will get continued FDI and our own SMEs can take part in and flourish in this environemnt. So you might ask. What exactly is the knowledge economy? The answer is I don't think anyone fully knows yet. This is where the opportunity lies for Ireland to make an impact since it is still there to be created! Aside from manufacturing we are also gaining very quickly in the areas of finance and I don't mean just mortgage finance in Ireland.

bk

I sympathise with anyone who loses a job, but the news that a few companies are going out of business isn't any indicator of the wider economy.

The reality is that different companies will come and go. Any country should be aiming at moving up the value chain to high end activities. Unfortunately this often means becoming uncompetitive in lower end activities, which often leads to companies closing and people losing heir jobs.

As an example look at textiles 20 years ago, back then a large percentage of the Irish population was employed in textiles manufacturing. Today nearly no one is, it is all manufactured in Turkey and China and lots of Irish people lost their jobs. Now while this was very painful for all the people involved, the Irish economy didn't fall apart, in fact things are better then ever, with far lower unemployment and greater wealth then ever.

This isn't the first time it has happened, it has happened many, many times in the past and it certainly won't be the last.

Jackie laughlin

Yes, of course companies have come and gone in the past but in the recent past Ireland achieved full emplyment. It's not good enough now to say, "Well, decline is natural."

Instead of making plans we are clinging to a childlike belief that there is something called "the knowledge economy" and that it will save us in some unspecified way. It's interesting that the term "information economy" has almost disappeared. Perhaps it's gone because it had some meaning?

mhenness

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Yes, of course companies have come and gone in the past but in the recent past Ireland achieved full emplyment. It's not good enough now to say, "Well, decline is natural."

I didn't say we should accept decline!

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Instead of making plans we are clinging to a childlike belief that there is something called "the knowledge economy" and that it will save us in some unspecified way. It's interesting that the term "information economy" has almost disappeared. Perhaps it's gone because it had some meaning?

The plan is to create a knowledge economy. Why is this a childlike belief? Every economically developed country is looking to create a knowledge economy. Sure it is not a well defined term but this is because it is in it's infancy. Do you think people were really clear when the start when the industrial economy was mooted? People had to become creative as to what people would find useful. Then they had to "discover" advertising and marketing to create demand. I would prefer to call it the knowledge economy the inovation economy. I think that has a more practical ring to it and has more clarity in terms of what we want to achieve.

Jackie laughlin

Mhenness,
I certainly don't mean to be rude or aggressive but one cannot have a PLAN to create something undefined. It is indeed childlike to believe that salvation lies in a mystery force of some description. "Knowledge economy" is an empty term and interest groups (especially in 3rd level education) are rushing forward with their buckets as a new fountain of public money begins to flowtowards the drain.

I certainly have no idea what is meant by a "knowledge economy", yet I come across it daily in the media.

mhenness

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Mhenness,
I certainly don't mean to be rude or aggressive but one cannot have a PLAN to create something undefined. It is indeed childlike to believe that salvation lies in a mystery force of some description. "Knowledge economy" is an empty term and interest groups (especially in 3rd level education) are rushing forward with their buckets as a new fountain of public money begins to flowtowards the drain.

I certainly have no idea what is meant by a "knowledge economy", yet I come across it daily in the media.

I'm sure there were some who thought the "industrial economy" was an empy term when it was in it's infancy. As I said I prefer to use the term innovation economy which I think suggests that something practical comes from the generated knowledge. Innovation is knowledge driven. Would you at least agree that innovation is an important aspect of sustaining a healthy economy? Innovation is not just a university centric activity. Universities do mostly basic research which drives knowledge forward. Then it is innovative thinking companies that make use of this knowledge to create products. Innovation also needs to be heavily promoted in Irish companies. There are also tech transfer schemes setup to facilitate the transfer of ideas and new developments to industry from universities. This has worked very well in the US. I don't see why it cannot work here. The governemnt are spending money on getting irish companies to innovate.

DublinWriter

Jackie laughlin wrote:

I certainly have no idea what is meant by a "knowledge economy", yet I come across it daily in the media.

I think it's just a fancy way of re-branding the service industry.

Speaking of wastes of money, look at the millions of our Euro the government pumped into the failed MediaLab Ireland project.

mhenness

DublinWriter wrote:

I think it's just a fancy way of re-branding the service industry.

Speaking of wastes of money, look at the millions of our Euro the government pumped into the failed MediaLab Ireland project.

It's not just fancy way of branding. It's about innovation. It's also about doing research to create more sophisticated products and services that are harder for others to simply replicate. Media Lab Ireland was a joke I'll agree but don't assume that all research labs are.

Jackie laughlin

I would be very surprised if the term "industrial economy" was used until the industrial economy started to decline. Certainly no one said, "Let's have an industrial revolution".

All progress depends on innovation. I doubt that anyone will argue with you on that.

However, "knowledge economy" is one of those terms which has started to appear on those fun "bull**** bingo" cards that people bring to meetings to amuse themselves. It belongs with "going forward", "key performance indicators" etc. The difficulty is that it is not a joke when elites with control over serious money become "believers".

I've been boring on other threads by appealing to people to understand the difference between research and development. Ireland cannot afford to confuse the two.

mhenness

Jackie laughlin wrote:

I would be very surprised if the term "industrial economy" was used until the industrial economy started to decline. Certainly no one said, "Let's have an industrial revolution".

All progress depends on innovation. I doubt that anyone will argue with you on that.

However, "knowledge economy" is one of those terms which has started to appear on those fun "bull**** bingo" cards that people bring to meetings to amuse themselves. It belongs with "going forward", "key performance indicators" etc. The difficulty is that it is not a joke when elites with control over serious money become "believers".

I've been boring on other threads by appealing to people to understand the difference between research and development. Ireland cannot afford to confuse the two.

Research and Development are different but related activities. Right now I'm working in research but was in development for a number of years working for companies involved in telecommunications and Digital TV. I guess then I've been on both sides of the fence so to speak. I see my PhD work as just training. I want to be involved in industrial style innovation once I'm finished with the aim of solving problems that industry itself does not always have time to focus on. My view is more on the practical. I just hope enough of us come out of the academic world to do this and hopefully make a difference.

Jackie laughlin

Well done. You seem to have a happy combination of education and experience. You'll do well.

You may soon have to decide between a career in technology or a career in (technical) management. There is no "knowledge economy". It is a fantasy for appearing to be forward looking and progressive. God, I wish we had an intelligent media workforce!