[article]Revenue monitoring VRT online checks

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Revenue monitoring VRT online checks

Importers who use the Revenue Commissioners VRT calculation website are being monitored to identify popular imports


Private car importers could be costing themselves and other buyers hundreds of euro in Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) by over-zealous checks on the Revenue Commissioners VRT calculation website. Paddy Comyn reports.

Revenue officials have confirmed they are monitoring both the queries about specific models of cars on the VRT online calculator and the actual traffic of imports to this country.

Officials are then pinpointing cars for "reclassification" as a "collectable" car. VRT is applied to imported cars as a percentage of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP), which is calculated by the Revenue Commissioners.

One example of such a change is the much sought-after 1980s version of the BMW 3-Series. Known in BMW circles by its code E30, it was produced between 1984 and 1991, with the Cabriolet and Touring models continuing even later than that.

The E30 has always had a loyal following and interest in the car has increased dramatically of late, as it has been identified as a future classic and with many well-maintained examples residing in Britain, personal imports of the car have increased greatly and this, it seems, has attracted the attention of the VRT officers.

One recent buyer , told The Irish Times of his experience with importing an E30 Convertible.

"In November of 2005 I priced a car on the VRT website and the model I was looking at had a VRT price of about €400-odd on it. Having settled on a car in February of this year I returned to the website to notice that the model I had previously looked at was no longer available on the drop-down menu. I phoned my local VRT office to check if there had been a database error, but was told that this particular car had been 'reclassified' and they would need to check with head office to get a price.


"The new price I was given was €1,360, some three times what I had been quoted online initially."

According to a spokesman for the Revenue, the car in question - the E30 Convertible - had been removed from the website because the open market selling price of the vehicle first published on the site was "far too low".

He confirmed the VRT website is monitored to gauge particular interest in specific models.

© The Irish Times

Mickk

Makes your blood boil doesn't it, any way they can to rob more money of the public.

prospect

Read it earlier, and I have to wonder if the people in their motoring office read boards, as this topic was only covered recently. This would be a good source for journalists to find out what topical issue is 'irking' us motorists at any given time.

mike65

It would'nt suprise me to be honest, maybe we will need a secret handshake and private sub forums for sensitive material?

Mike.

Stephen

Perhaps we should all just hammer the VRT calculator with requests for sh*te cars? I'm sure somebody clever could put together a script that keeps them busy!

Henry Ford III

Stephen wrote:

Perhaps we should all just hammer the VRT calculator with requests for sh*te cars? I'm sure somebody clever could put together a script that keeps them busy!

Good idea.

MercMad

Its typical, but rather obvious that they will try to close up whatever "holes" they can. They are there to make money so if folk are bringing in cars that will yeild a nice profit....................they want some !

Savman

Stephen wrote:

Perhaps we should all just hammer the VRT calculator with requests for sh*te cars? I'm sure somebody clever could put together a script that keeps them busy!

100,000 Fiat Punto imports is bound to arouse some suspicion

mike65

Today FM are talking about this right now 100-102 Fm

Mike.

Tipsy Mac

I am sick to death of VRT, it's costing lives in that people are taking to the roads in sub standard cars. At the next referendum of any EU legislation we should all get together with some kind of campaign to highlight to those in Europe why we have to pay import tax on goods across the EU. There are something like 1.5 million drivers in the country, each one of them has a vote, it's a fairly powerful lobby group if we could just all get together. The main problem is the average driver doesn't know about it, a nice back window sticker campaign would alert alot of people.

Anan1

Tipsy Mac wrote:

I am sick to death of VRT, it's costing lives in that people are taking to the roads in sub standard cars. At the next referendum of any EU legislation we should all get together with some kind of campaign to highlight to those in Europe why we have to pay import tax on goods across the EU. There are something like 1.5 million drivers in the country, each one of them has a vote, it's a fairly powerful lobby group if we could just all get together. The main problem is the average driver doesn't know about it, a nice back window sticker campaign would alert alot of people.

I'm a driver and I'm in favour of VRT. I've had this discussion with friends & family, and many of them are too. By all means try, but I'm not sure that there would be many votes in abolishing VRT.

Abelloid

Anan1 wrote:

I'm a driver and I'm in favour of VRT. I've had this discussion with friends & family, and many of them are too. By all means try, but I'm not sure that there would be many votes in abolishing VRT.

Why are you in favour of VRT?

Anan1

JustinOval wrote:

Why are you in favour of VRT?

There was a big discussion about this a few months ago, in which I explained why I favoured VRT. I've just tried to find it, but the search function doesn't seem to be working for me. Have a look at my past posts under VRT if it works for you, with the best will in the world I couldn't be arsed going through the whole thing again.;)

parsi

Tipsy Mac wrote:

I am sick to death of VRT, it's costing lives in that people are taking to the roads in sub standard cars.

How ? Below what standard ?

There isn't VRT on tyres yet folks drive on what are virtually slicks.

Seatbelts are in all cars but yet folks still drive without them.

Child seats are very reasonable but yet there are loads of cars where the children have no restraints.

Even with VRT people can afford to be drink driving.

Maybe its the high rate of VRT that prevents people buying cheap headsets so that they don't have to hold their phones whilst driving.

Fight VRT on reasonable grounds not fanciful emotional grounds. If VRT is so high then why are car sales at such a high level ? It's not as if cars are wearing out after two years or rusting to bits like the old days.

If VRT goes what will replace it ? Do you think the Government can afford to just ditch one particular revenue stream ?

Tipsy Mac

parsi wrote:

How ? Below what standard ?
Fight VRT on reasonable grounds not fanciful emotional grounds. If VRT is so high then why are car sales at such a high level ? It's not as if cars are wearing out after two years or rusting to bits like the old days.

If VRT goes what will replace it ? Do you think the Government can afford to just ditch one particular revenue stream ?

People in this country require cars to get from A to B, public transport is not at anything near an effective level where people can consider giving up their car.

Not my problem what it is to be replaced with, I don't see the mafia getting grants when they are no longer able to continue with extortion due to the law being imposed.

An argument some use in favour of VRT is that its abolishment will devalue existing cars doesnt hold up as unless you are retiring from driving you will not lose anything as your new car will be 25% or more cheaper.

junkyard

VRT is a rip-off and anyone who thinks its a good idea must be living in the clouds or doesn't own a car. I'm sick to death of paying taxes. This latest little scam has to be stopped as its totally unjust. Sometimes I think we're living in a communist country and nobody will admit to it. It seems to me that anytime someone tries to better them selves or treat themselves to something nice there are huge taxes to be paid for the pleasure, God knows we work hard enough here and pay taxes on our wages. When you see what those f***ers in Dail Eireann get paid for doing sweet f**k all its no wonder they have to rob us to pay for everything.:mad:

Anan1

Tipsy Mac wrote:

Not my problem what it is to be replaced with, I don't see the mafia getting grants when they are no longer able to continue with extortion due to the law being imposed.

Of course it's your problem. You are a taxpayer, aren't you?

Flangemonger

Anan1 wrote:

I'm a driver and I'm in favour of VRT. I've had this discussion with friends & family, and many of them are too.

I must go and have a look for your thread to see why (fingers crossed it's still there) To my mind the only people who would gain from VRT on imported secondhand cars (apart from Mr Taxman of course) are Irish car dealers who are protecting their turf. It helps them to control the market.

VRT is blatantly anticompetitive, which is why the EU is breathing down the Irish government's neck about it (though not half hard enough in my opinion). Revenue comes up with what they call an Open Market Selling Price, which is supposedly what the car would cost you if bought secondhand in Ireland. Then the VRT is 30% on top of that!!

Mercifully the OMSP they quote is usually lower than you'd ever manage to really buy the car in Ireland. Otherwise the VRT would be even more outlandish!

So if the OMSP was accurate, we'd be paying 30% over the odds for daring to import a car. If that's not naked protectionism of the Irish motor trade, I don't know what is.

Even if the Government finally bows to the EU pressure, I wouldn't hold out much hope of cars getting cheaper to import. They'd just bring in a 30% tax on getting your number plates printed or some sh1t€ like that, and buy themselves another 10 years while the EU chases them through the courts.

While I don't have a problem paying tax in itself (the streetlights don't light by magic), it really pi$$es me off when, on top of paying tax on every single thing I buy, I have to hand over 42% of my paycheque without even seeing it. Meanwhile the super-rich pay approximately ZERO percent income tax and grab back as much of the tax they DO pay as they possibly can. :mad:

parsi

Tipsy Mac wrote:

People in this country require cars to get from A to B, public transport is not at anything near an effective level where people can consider giving up their car.

I asked - if VRT is so crippling why are car sales so high and why does every dealer have a glitzy showroom? We don't need to change everyyear just to go from a-to-b . Cars are way more reliable now and last much longer. If VRT was such an important factor the sales of 2nd cars would be higher but as it is every dealer has a lot full of second-hand cars.

You also haven't suggested how to replace the lost revenue ? Increase PAYE ? Increase VAT ? Add a fuel tax ?

The idea of a Vehicle Registration Tax is dubious to some people. However when all is said and done it's a tax and is there to get money. If it goes it will be recouped somewhere else . Somewhere the EU won't be able to moan about. Don't be deluded that if the next budget scraps VRT it won't add 10c to petrol, 25euro to roadtax etc etc.

the_batman

I remember Conor Faughnan from the AA said that a 1 cent surcharge on petrol would generate the same amount as is currently generated from VRT.

If VRT was eliminated, the price of nearly new cars would tumble very fast. You could be talking about 30%!

parsi wrote:

I asked - if VRT is so crippling why are car sales so high and why does every dealer have a glitzy showroom? We don't need to change everyyear just to go from a-to-b . Cars are way more reliable now and last much longer. If VRT was such an important factor the sales of 2nd cars would be higher but as it is every dealer has a lot full of second-hand cars.

You also haven't suggested how to replace the lost revenue ? Increase PAYE ? Increase VAT ? Add a fuel tax ?

The idea of a Vehicle Registration Tax is dubious to some people. However when all is said and done it's a tax and is there to get money. If it goes it will be recouped somewhere else . Somewhere the EU won't be able to moan about. Don't be deluded that if the next budget scraps VRT it won't add 10c to petrol, 25euro to roadtax etc etc.

maidhc

junkyard wrote:

This latest little scam has to be stopped as its totally unjust. Sometimes I think we're living in a communist country and nobody will admit to it.

I'd love to understand the little minds that preoccupy themselves worrying if people are able to import E30's too cheap.

It would be fun to break the system by requesting puntos, fiestas and othe like. If eveyone did it once a day...

junkyard wrote:

It seems to me that anytime someone tries to better them selves or treat themselves to something nice there are huge taxes to be paid for the pleasure, God knows we work hard enough here and pay taxes on our wages.

I have had first hand experience of taxes in spain recently, and they are worse. Not cars specifically, but in general.

the_batman

This was done a few months ago, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054914296, and from what I can see there was no increase.

maidhc wrote:

It would be fun to break the system by requesting puntos, fiestas and othe like. If eveyone did it once a day...

unkel

the_batman wrote:

I remember Conor Faughnan from the AA said that a 1 cent surcharge on petrol would generate the same amount as is currently generated from VRT

Either you remember wrong, or your man is an eejit. The surcharge would be many times that, a quick guess would be 30-40 cent on top of petrol AND diesel. VRT generates a billion per annum...

mike65

I think you'd need about 20 cent a ltr on top. Someone proberly has worked it out.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

Exactly. We get cheaper petrol than the rest of europe, they get cheaper cars. It all levels out over the years.


The uk are currently paying in and around £1 a litre iirc. Thats €1.45 or so. A fill in my 80 ltr tank cost roughly €92 here. In the uk it would cost €116. Thats €24 a fill.

junkyard

They're still taking a lot of tax on petrol and diesel.:(

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

They're still taking a lot of tax on petrol and diesel.:(

but not anythign like the countries with no vrt.

unkel

I'd much prefer the motor tax to be absorbed by an increase in fuel duty tbh. The polluter should pay. Good opportunity too, to get rid of that ridiculous scheme that millionairs get their diesel nearly free of charge and hit the IRA hard at the same time

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Good opportunity too, to get rid of that ridiculous scheme that millionairs get their diesel nearly free of charge and hit the IRA hard at the same time

Free diesel? Pray thee tell.

Not sure if you mean the marked diesel, which is substantially cheaper, but can only be used in predominatly agricultural vehicles with a max speed of 50km/h.

prospect

I would have absoloutly no objection to VRT & VAT on vehicles&parts, And Motor TAX, and Fuel Leveys, if every penny of that money was invested back into our road network.

WTF are motorists expected to put up for such a huge chunk of public revenue? Can they not calculate the costs of road maintenance and upgrade & development work, divide this up into annual motor tax, and then the revenue shortfall that is used on NON-MOTORING services should be picked up elsewhere, like income tax...

LikeOhMyGawd!

unkel wrote:

Good opportunity too, to get rid of that ridiculous scheme that millionairs get their diesel nearly free of charge and hit the IRA hard at the same time

erm, what are you on about there??