Kadman and Rooferpete

mrbungle

kadman wrote:

........being one of the reasons. Draconian.

kadman

How true, Draconian perfectly personifies that behaviour.

Here, here Kadman.

Gordon

I think WhiteWashMan sums the situation up perfectly, well said Eamo.

Gordon

And with regards to delly, your new moderator:

There is a thread on the mod forum that delly started a little while ago about his concerns over this forum and problems that may, and have, started to arise. From reading the thread as time went on it is obvious that delly has given much thought and care into his reasoning behind his actions. He has been fronted with some difficult obstacles as a moderator, and for a new mod it's quite a challenge.

To be honest, if any seasoned, experienced (I use that term loosely!) moderator on boards came up with the same problems - they would have quickly and simply banned/closed/deleted any posts or users that seemed a problem.

delly, on the other hand, not only took a great deal of time privately messaging rooferPete and kadman, but he asked and listened to the general concensus of the moderators on the moderator forum. From his posts, it is blatantly clear that he is not happy with the way things have gone on but he wants what is best for the forum regulars AND boards as a whole. That's what mods do, they are in limbo between the gravity of two opposing forces - the wants of the individual and the needs of the whole (boards.ie).

I think you guys are lucky to have delly as a mod, and I think you'll see in time that he only has the forum's best wishes in mind.

byte

Well said Gordon. Couldn't agree more. He was basically stuck between a rock and a hard place

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

kadman actually pm'd me at the start of this complaining bitterly. i asked him to point out what his issues were and what threads were cuasing concern.

he decided that he didnt need to do this, and instead went straight into the usual 'all moderators are power tripping internet nerds' at that point, if someone doesnt want my help, i said that he should take it up withthe mod.
thats when he decided to leave these forums.
im happy to post up the pms if people want the proof of this childish behaviour, but id rather not becuase as far as im concerned, the pm stands for private.

QUOTE]


Hi Whitewashman,

Hopefully I will be able to make a few points , before I,m either banned , or rushed off to the dark recesses of the recycle bin , without a chance to reply.

So here goes.

I would just like to make a few comments in relation to recent events here, if I may.

With regards to the quote above, you have put in quotes the statement ' all mods are power tripping internet nerds ' . The assumption here is that I made this statement in a pm to you. I have never made this statement. And i think its unfair to give this impression in this thread.

In what pm to you am I supposed to have said this. I,m slightly confused.

Did I say this to you in a pm to you.

Selective so called quotations are not helplful in any instance , so I dont intend to indulge in it at the moment.

I personally have no objection to you posting our pm's if thats what you wish to do.

Its not a question of egos either , its a question of fair modding , not censorship. Its quite plain that I am not alone in feeling that the modding here has not been either fair or consistent.

I dont post here to boost my ego . If I wanted to do that I would post on my own Woodcraft forum , to bolster that. Maybe you feel that I dont mod that efficiently . Who knows ,maybe you are right.

My personal reason to question whether to post here is in relation to a couple of posts here, that I think everyone is aware of , as well as the whole question of consistency. Which seems to be missing.

Granted Delly is a new mod , and he probably needs a settling in period to settle down here . But coming in in the first couple of weeks , and wielding his authority like a sabre is bound to cause ripples. Waves happen when sabre ratling happens without mercy.

Whether this forum, admins, mods or posters like it or not, Rooferpete is an exceptionally experienced craftsman. He is no doubt probably the most experienced tradesman that has ever posted on a diy forum , without any regard for personal gain. He has gone out his way to provide correct technical guidance for any person who looks to contact him. Diy tips is one thing, but the posters here will rest assured that if they get advice form Rooferpete , they need look no further. His knowledge is gained from family generations of likeminded experienced individuals. A wealth of advice available to the diyer's, self builders, and experienced pro,s , alike. There is no doubt that this forum will suffer seriously with out him.

It is unfortunate that recent events here have led to Rooferpete's banning, with out even a right to reply. Or maybe I,m not looking in the right places.
I suppose by asking these questions I might risk getting banned or, recycled , or moved. If so please let me know where to.

Even my own question to Rooferpete, Quote.

" Is the term Foxtrot Oscar , a gardening term , or diy term "
ended up with a disciplinary move of my thread to the recycle bin.

How sad is that,

kadman

WhiteWashMan

rooferpete felt he didnt want to post here after a thread got trashed.
quite frankly, its childish.
he then threatened to take legal action against boards.ie.
and was sitebanned.
its policy.

i have no idea why you said you wouldnt post here. out of solidarity or something.
its equally childish.

it smacks of ;its my ball and im going home'.

ive asked people to move on from this situation. it doesnt help this forum.

you have two choices. either post, or dont.

its up to you.

as for the moderator thing, well, thats out of your hands im afraid. there is a mod here. it is delly. until delly decides otherwise, it will remain him.
if people feel another mod is needed, then we can add another mod, and im happy to take requests.

now, the reason for this forum is to help other people with gardening and GIY issues.

it seems that all of this rubbish has not done that, and in fact, didnt even come from that. it has been about egos. pure and simple.

like i said. draw a line under it. move on. i completely fail to see any reason to continue this conversation.

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

rooferpete felt he didnt want to post here after a thread got trashed.
quite frankly, its childish.
he then threatened to take legal action against boards.ie.
and was sitebanned.
its policy..

Is it policy to siteban some one with out a right to reply. As i thought that they should have been given an opportunity to elaborate. Or are they guilty until proven innocent.

.[/QUOTE]

i have no idea why you said you wouldnt post here. out of solidarity or something.
its equally childish..[/QUOTE]

My reasons for questioning whether to post was in relation to a ridiculous binning , Eastern bloc workers thread , insulting and offensive to Irish tradesman , let run , with no comments from the mod. But my thread Western block workers , receiving attention from the mod. Inconsistent in my view ( Spelling)



..[/QUOTE]
ive asked people to move on from this situation. it doesnt help this forum.
you have two choices. either post, or dont

its up to you...[/QUOTE]

Yes I know,

..[/QUOTE]
as for the moderator thing, well, thats out of your hands im afraid. there is a mod here. it is delly. until delly decides otherwise, it will remain him.
if people feel another mod is needed, then we can add another mod, and im happy to take requests...[/QUOTE]

Just for the record , I have never made any requests to get Delly removed . I may have issues with his modding , or indeed his suitability, but I have never requested his removal , or an additional mod

.
..[/QUOTE]
like i said. draw a line under it. move on. i completely fail to see any reason to continue this conversation.[/QUOTE]

The reason for this conversation is because some comments made in your previous post give the impression that I have made some comments in pm,s to you stating ' all moderators are power tripping nerds .

I never said that, pm'ed it either.

I am posting here because I feel I have the right to reply to the insinuations made relative to my pm's.

kadman

muffler

kadman wrote:

Is it policy to siteban some one with out a right to reply. As i thought that they should have been given an opportunity to elaborate. Or are they guilty until proven innocent.

That is obviously rooferpete you refer to. If you read this thread you will see that he did post but after doing so he then choose to issues legal threats.

he was given the right to respond to any or all of your posts, his posts and other members posts but he choose to abandon all sense of rationalle and run for the legal card.

I think all has been said that needed to be said and I think delly should now lock this thread or is that going to be seen as a denial of "your rights" again

kadman

muffler wrote:

That is obviously rooferpete you refer to. If you read this thread you will see that he did post but after doing so he then choose to issues legal threats.

he was given the right to respond to any or all of your posts, his posts and other members posts but he choose to abandon all sense of rationalle and run for the legal card.

I think all has been said that needed to be said and I think delly should now lock this thread or is that going to be seen as a denial of "your rights" again

Hi Muffler,

I can only reiterate , I never made any such statements as were 'quoted ' in earlier posts about my pm,s. The inference is that I did.

I agree that things on this forum have sunk to an all time low, and while I have enjoyed posting here , the level of censorship eminating now seems to be , like it or lump it mentality.

While even at this stage you are advocating locking it , before the air has been cleared.

So lock it, censor it if you must

Tim

muffler

kadman wrote:

Hi Muffler,

I can only reiterate , I never made any such statements as were 'quoted ' in earlier posts about my pm,s. The inference is that I did.

I agree that things on this forum have sunk to an all time low, and while I have enjoyed posting here , the level of censorship eminating now seems to be , like it or lump it mentality.

While even at this stage you are advocating locking it , before the air has been cleared.

So lock it, censor it if you must

Tim

First of all Tim its not my forum to mod and thats why I suggested that delly does it.

Personally I feel that all has been said that needs to be so Im not sure how much further the air can be cleared.

Yourself and WWM have exchanged your opinions on the matter but I do agree with you that there is still the unresolved matter of a sentance in a PM.
That should be cleared up by WWM and then move on from this.

Dont get me wrong, I am sorry that rooferpete is banned but because he choose to take the attitude he did then the mods had no option.

In relation to delly, well he came in here to do a job and if he had been here 2 weeks earlier or 2 weeks later then we would probably have all been singing his praises. It was just unfortunate timing that he took the mods post when he did and he was caught in the crossfire. I can tell you now that I am not here to defend other mods as i have got a fair bit of abuse myself from some of them - the type that like to hide behind their keyboards and hurl insults.

But in this instance i have to say delly was spot on in his modding of the forum. I dread to think what would have happened if he had not been here.

Clear up that point you have about the PM with WWM and bring a closure to this

kadman

muffler wrote:

First of all Tim its not my forum to mod and thats why I suggested that delly does it.QUOTE=muffler]

I understand that its not your forum. My remark was to the powers that be, Delly, admins , whatever.

QUOTE=muffler]
Yourself and WWM have exchanged your opinions on the matter but I do agree with you that there is still the unresolved matter of a sentance in a PM.
That should be cleared up by WWM and then move on from this.QUOTE=muffler]

Well I have asked it a couple of times already

QUOTE=muffler]
Clear up that point you have about the PM with WWM and bring a closure to this

Well as I said I have queried it already, but no explanation.

kadman

WhiteWashMan

kadman wrote:

The reason for this conversation is because some comments made in your previous post give the impression that I have made some comments in pm,s to you stating ' all moderators are power tripping nerds .

I never said that, pm'ed it either.

I am posting here because I feel I have the right to reply to the insinuations made relative to my pm's.

the power tripping nerds phrase was not a direct quote.
otherwise i would have put it in quote format.

however, you did title your PM 'Orwell 1984', and i am well aware of the novel and the reference there in.

if thats the sum total of your reasoning for being here, i hope ive helped you move on.

now that the oversized egos have been removed or left, the forum can finally go back to normal i think.

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

the power tripping nerds phrase was not a direct quote.
otherwise i would have put it in quote format.

Thankyou for clarifying that point , so that it is quite clear that there was not one word in that statement, that I made.

however, you did title your PM 'Orwell 1984', and i am well aware of the novel and the reference there in.

Yes I did make that reference.

if thats the sum total of your reasoning for being here, i hope ive helped you move on.

Well my sum reason for being here was to clarify that misleading point. And i hope it helps you to realise the effects of misrepresenting comments.

now that the oversized egos have been removed or left, the forum can finally go back to normal i think.

Does this refer to your ego , or mine.

kadman

eddiej

Hello,

I've been reading all this for quite a while and really guys people would want to take a good look at themselves.

Number 1. Kad and Peter have been fantastic on this forum, they have their trades dont deny them and never once as far as I can remember denied where they were coming from and the bias they may hold.

Number 2. Read over whats left of the Eastern Bloc workers thread, delly relax the kaks man. IFAK and some others really got away with what they liked. If you are going to make statemnets like I pay them and its up to them to pay tax (paraphrase not quote, since we a re so PC round these parts now) they are going to be inflamatory so let it ride. To be honset it has been said before but if all was left well enough alone it would more than likely have fizzled out.

Number 3. Delly, while I accept that the owners/runners of boards have the right to put in a mod, has done himself no favors. I really enjoyed the drainage project and it was great with the pics and all but why a sticky I know you say PM but they seem to be they answer to all the mods "sticky" situations. Oh someone PM me but their private so not putting them up. There were some issues about egos well eh?????

Number 4. If Peter really did threaten legal action and Pete I am only going on Mod info well then that breaks the rules and I am afraid so be it. A loss indeed and a big one but rules are rules. That is not to say that maybe the whole thing cannot be worked out and back to pre EASTERNBLOCGATE but no one can be above the rules I think.

Number 5. Mods for some reason have taken umbridge against the DIY forum and have decided no they cannot go beyond our control. I know that they have a responsibility to the entire boards.ie system but lads really dont fix what aint broken. If you really needed a mod they should not have come wading in putting themselves on stickys. I had never even seen the thread locked symbol before Delly arrived. In the past these threads just died because no one was interested in them so why not leave as is.

In conclusion, I would love to see Peter back if that was possible though if what is being said is true I can understand from Boards.ie side (PS Pete in no way am I saying that you are wrong to resort to legal action if you feel that is the correct option for you). I really think Delly should stand aside as a mod and a new more relaxed mod take over, more of a silent watch than dellys rather unfortunate proactive invasive style. I think when the thread about the direction of the board went up many people got worried and have been proved right. The beauty of boards is the diversity between boards under the same collection. The dynamic in each board is very different and I think in this case the mods have totally missed what is going on in the DIY boards.

Please let us get back to where we were and unshackle us from the new regieme. Finally this stuff about Kadman and PM's is absolutely disgraceful and should seriously be sorted out.

Kind regards,

Dr. Eddie Jordan

WhiteWashMan

kadman wrote:

Does this refer to your ego , or mine.

kadman

it refers to yours

kadman wrote:

Well my sum reason for being here was to clarify that misleading point. And i hope it helps you to realise the effects of misrepresenting comments

you mean the way you keep misrepresenting what i say?

although, in my defense, i said you came out with the usual 'power tripping mods' stuff, which you did. so what i said is quite true from my point of view.

but, since you are now happy that is cleared up, will you be leaving, or will you be hanging around to get back to the DIY stuff.

you are still more than welcome to post here, and as far as im concerned this is all just a storm in a tea cup. others see it differently, and thats fine.

you may think that its the end of the world that a mod has a different view point from you, and that you are right and that the mod is wrong, but at the end of the day, its now the mods decision.
like ive said, work with the mod.
if you have complaints, stick em on the feedback forum. thats what its there for.

now, are there any more pedantic points that anyone would like to get out of the way, or can we actually lock this stupid thread and get on with it?

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

it refers to yours?[/QUOTE

I would have the same opinion as to your ego.

?[/QUOTE
you mean the way you keep misrepresenting what i say?

although, in my defense, i said you came out with the usual 'power tripping mods' stuff, which you did. so what i said is quite true from my point of view.?[/QUOTE

Can you tell me the pm, where I said the ' power tripping nod ' statement.
I cant find it. I can find the one that says " my opinion ws not regarded on the forum anyway "

?[/QUOTE
but, since you are now happy that is cleared up, will you be leaving, or will you be hanging around to get back to the DIY stuff.?[/QUOTE

I have answered a couple of posts recently , where posters have looked for help. After that who knows

?[/QUOTE
you may think that its the end of the world that a mod has a different view point from you, and that you are right and that the mod is wrong, but at the end of the day, its now the mods decision.
like ive said, work with the mod.
if you have complaints, stick em on the feedback forum. thats what its there for.?[/QUOTE

I am not too pushed about a mods different point of view, we are all entitled to that. Fundamental basis of healthy discussion. I have some issues with the way the forum is modded now , that I believe is restrictive in its nature.
But the overall vibe coming from all the law makers here , is that the forum has benefited from the recent changes . clearly it has not. But as you say its a mods decision now.

QUOTE]

kadman

muffler

I just had a quick look through the other topics and I see that there are nearly 30 posts from midnight to present.

The forum is alive and well.

As this thread has outlived its usefullness I think it should be locked

kadman

muffler wrote:

I just had a quick look through the other topics and I see that there are nearly 30 posts from midnight to present.

The forum is alive and well.

As this thread has outlived its usefullness I think it should be locked

Why do you want it locked then. We might get another 50 before tea time.

kadman

WhiteWashMan

kadman wrote:

I have some issues with the way the forum is modded now , that I believe is restrictive in its nature.

excellent, it seems if finally gotten all the moaning out of you, now we can move on.

how is the forum too restrictive?

kadman wrote:

But the overall vibe coming from all the law makers here , is that the forum has benefited from the recent changes .

well, i dont know if this place has benefited or not.
i'll tell you what i see.

i see some of the people who gave help to people either leave, or threaten to leave for some reason. im still unsure what the exact nature of this reason is, becuase no one seems to want to give specific details, only vague hints of outrageous behaviour by a newly installed mod.

what have the changes been exactly?

why do you feel they have not helped?

kadman wrote:

clearly it has not. .

ok. perfect opportunity for you to stick up some examples.

kadman wrote:

But as you say its a mods decision now.

yes it is the mods decision.

but its not a 'them and us' situation which many people seem to think it is.
the role of a mod is to facilitate free and open discussion within a forum.

there are some rules which are site wide, and there are some rules which are forum perticular, and there is the rule of common sense.

and there are always going to be decisions made, that are not going to please everyone.
so when i say work with the mods, i mean work with them, find the limitations. creating a union and putting toegethr a lynch mob does not constitute working with the mod. it shows the opposite. it shows me that people are not happy to work with a mod, and i think thats because there were certain people (as i have said, have left or threatened to leave) who had their position as 'important advice giver' disturbed, and threw their toys out of the pram. thats how i see it.

this forum will still run fine. please dont make the mistake of thinking it will die off because 2 or 3 posters leave..

so, can this now get back to DIY?

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

excellent, it seems if finally gotten all the moaning out of you, now we can move on.

Not all of the moaning I'm afraid.
1. Did i make any reference to " power tripping mods "
Yes or no.

how is the forum too restrictive?

Sending my lighthearted thread to the recycle bin , although technically correct , was overzealous.

Giving differing reasons for it was inconsistent and confusing. Firstly it was so as not to cause offense to Rooferpete, then it was regarded as spam. Maybe its for a different reason at this stage.

well, i dont know if this place has benefited or not.
i'll tell you what i see.

Well obviously there is a strong feeling that it has not. Not only by me, but by many other posters as well.

i see some of the people who gave help to people either leave, or threaten to leave for some reason. im still unsure what the exact nature of this reason is, becuase no one seems to want to give specific details, only vague hints of outrageous behaviour by a newly installed mod.

My reasons for considering on leaving are related to the Eastern blocworkers thread, and the western Bloc workers thread. Eastern bloc thread was let run without intervention . Western bloc thread seems to have given rise to queries from the mod. Binned thread was given one reason in one pm, then a different one in another.

so when i say work with the mods, i mean work with them, find the limitations. creating a union and putting toegethr a lynch mob does not constitute working with the mod. it shows the opposite. it shows me that people are not happy to work with a mod, and i think thats because there were certain people (as i have said, have left or threatened to leave) who had their position as 'important advice giver' disturbed, and threw their toys out of the pram. thats how i see it.

Work with the mod . Funny thats what I tried to do. And when I pm'ed the mod. First line of the reply was " What are you pm,ing me for "

this forum will still run fine. please dont make the mistake of thinking it will die off because 2 or 3 posters leave..

Yes it will , but there is no doubt that it will suffer from the loss of rooferpete.s expertise , and unselfish attitude in answering posts. I dont know the full extent of what Rooferpete's reason was for threatening legal action. But I have absolutely no doubt that its a choice that he would not make lightly.

As for the belief that because he threatened this form of action , he must have no consideration or loyalty for the forum. His help and advice to countless numbers here will speak for it self.

kadman

Esel

Can someone please give a link to the relevant thread(s)?

kadman

esel wrote:

Can someone please give a link to the relevant thread(s)?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054946868

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054948157

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054936482

kadman

WhiteWashMan

kadman wrote:

Work with the mod . Funny thats what I tried to do. And when I pm'ed the mod. First line of the reply was " What are you pm,ing me for "

dear god.

im not a mod here.

i dont know why i bother.

as for the rest...

...boring.

we can dance around all day asking the same questions, but im done. since you seeem to be unable to answer a question, nor understand a clear answer, i will leave it to you.

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

kadman wrote:

dear god.

im not a mod here.

i dont know why i bother.

as for the rest...

...boring.

Funny , yesterday you seemed to think you were a mod here, in reply to pitstops post.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054951241

we can dance around all day asking the same questions, but im done. since you seeem to be unable to answer a question, nor understand a clear answer, i will leave it to you.

I have outlined the threads , and actions that have concerned me quite clearly , as can be seen in earlier posts.

On the other hand , you have failed to answer my previous questions to you,

1. Did I make any statement , saying 'power tripping mods , in any pm to you.
2 When I contacted a mod here " what are you pm,ing me for was the reply '

I have not seen any answer to any of these questions yet. Or maybe I,ve missed them.
I dont see any benefit from relying on sarcastictic anecdotes at this time.

kadman

Reyman

I think we need to get our feet back on the ground here!

Roofer Pete and Kadman are great guys and their advice has been unsurpassed but there's plenty of other people here giving good advice freely also.

Boards will go on with or without these experts and indeed without any one of us.

So let's not take all this too seriously -- we'll be fine !

WhiteWashMan

kadman wrote:

1. Did I make any statement , saying 'power tripping mods , in any pm to you.

actually i have answered this

kadman2 wrote:

When I contacted a mod here " what are you pm,ing me for was the reply '

im a catagory mod. im not a mod of this forum.

what is your point?

now youre just arguing for argument sake.

WhiteWashMan

Reyman wrote:

I think we need to get our feet back on the ground here!

Roofer Pete and Kadman are great guys and their advice has been unsurpassed but there's plenty of other people here giving good advice freely also.

Boards will go on with or without these experts and indeed without any one of us.

So let's not take all this too seriously -- we'll be fine !

amen brother.

can we lock this and let this forum get on?

after all, i think there are questions and answers about DIY going on, and this whole issue is a farce.

kadman

As elusive as ever, spoken like a true diplomat.

Whitewashman is a most appropriate name for you,

kadman

WhiteWashMan

i take it then i can close this thread?

you have no further issues with the forum that you want to discuss?

kadman

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i take it then i can close this thread?

you have no further issues with the forum that you want to discuss?

Is there a problem leaving it open.

kadman