A new city centre?

Amazotheamazing

New city centre

by Marie Hobbins
A DEVELOPER is poised to deliver a radical and unparalleled transformation to a Limerick city centre area of eight acres.

Property developer, Michael Tiernan’s vision for a new and extended city centre involves the demolition of the block occupied by Roches Stores, Penneys and Burger King, the demolition of the block occupied by Arthur’s Quay Shopping Centre, demolition of the unoccupied premises on Liddy Street, the demolition of Dunnes Stores on Sarsfield Street and to the rear on Howley’s Quay and the possible demolition of the tourist office.

Central to the city centre regeneration plan would be the acquisition of the park at Arthur’s Quay.

Outlining his overall plan to the Limerick Post Mr Tiernan, who has submitted his company’s draft to Limerick City Council is emphatic that the development would satisfy the demand for the upmarket retail provision expected of a city centre.

The development would run a road underground from Lower Henry Street to Rutland Street to facilitate the pedestrianisation of Upper Patrick Street and Lower O’Connell Street, would include a major civic square as well as a number of civic spaces, a quayside boardwalk, new theatre/concert hall and the relocation of the city library from the Granary.

The redesigned area would also rehouse the newly rebuilt Roches Stores, Penneys etc and provide a link between the riverscape of Howley’s/Harvey’s quays and Arthur’s Quay and form a natural connection to the city’s medieval quarter.

"It would be hoped that our development would be the catalyst for an imaginative regeneration of Nicholas Street,” observed the developer.

With Roches Stores, Penneys, Dunnes, Tesco and Burger King fully in support of the redevelopment project, which Mr Tiernan stresses will not lead to job losses in the redevelopment period (but will create huge job increases after completion), a city centre regeneration project of this magnitude will, he says "present an historically unique opportunity to transform the centre of Limerick city and will enable it to become once again the civic and retail heartland of the entire region, particularly given the enthusiasm of the stakeholders”.

Michael Tiernan, who built the Arthur’s Quay Shopping Centre in 1989 points out that the cycle for redevelopment has shrunk to today’s norm of 20 to 30 years.

"This is a one in a 200-year opportunity to completely transform, enhance and extend the city centre for the people of Limerick and the challenge is to empower the vision we have to make this possible. Our aim is to focus on what the people want and our ambition is to go to planning next year and with a phased development process, achieve completion by 2010.”

Tiernan Properties have liaised closely with the developers of the Opera Centre, construction of which is due to commence in the Autumn.

While city manager, Tom Mackey is remaining tight-lipped on the project and refused to be drawn on the implications involved in a rezoning of Arthur’s Quay Park, which is leased to the Council by the Department of the Marine, it is generally accepted that some councillors may not be willing to surrender the park for development.

"There’s a fear that if we put it forward for rezoning for commercial development the port company would look for an arm and a leg in financial terms,” contends Cllr Michael Hourigan who is one hundred per cent in favour of the Tiernan regeneration project.

"As it is the park is under-utilised even though we are making much about being a riverside city. We should consider the bigger picture here and in tandem with the Opera Centre a complete redesign as envisioned by Michael Tiernan and the stakeholders would continue the city’s redevelopment process and would tie in with the Council’s city development plan,”he said.

The Council’s senior planner, Dick Tobin told the Limerick Post that the project was presented to Limerick City Council in 2004 but that no firm decision on its future was arrived at. Cllr John Gilligan, however is emphatic that the councillors have not yet been acquainted with details of the project.

Mr Tobin said that as the area plan for the city centre is earmarked for detailed discussion later this year, in that context the Tiernan regeneration project will be fully examined.

Amazotheamazing

Sounds promising, with the exception of getting of the park.

1huge1

A bit optimistic but possible somehow i think that kinda work going on in the city centre would be very damaging for businesses
though in the long run it would be great hope it happens

irishguy

I think its a great idea was only thinking the other day while on bedford row that the area would look really cool with a big square, it would make Limerick feal more european. It would be good to get rid of the park as its a total failure, but only if it was replaced by a proper square that can be used and is safe. Are there any more detailed plans around?

billy the squid

Not going to happen I am afraid. The development of Arthurs quay park will be unpopular with the councillors. also there would be objections from all the businesses in the area who would be discomoded.

Amazotheamazing

irishguy wrote:

I think its a great idea was only thinking the other day while on bedford row that the area would look really cool with a big square, it would make Limerick feal more european. It would be good to get rid of the park as its a total failure, but only if it was replaced by a proper square that can be used and is safe. Are there any more detailed plans around?

You see I just can't agree with you on the park, in the 1980's Eyre Sq. was one of the most dangerous parks in the country and now it's the centrepiece of Galway's revival. What Arthur's Quay needs is proper up keep, flower beds, getting rid of the railings and shops facing on to it. We should demand better from our city, getting rid of parks does the city no favours.

Inge Binge

just PR gibberish in my opinion

irishguy

Well i would only support getting rid of the park, if the replacement square was of similar size.

You see I just can't agree with you on the park, in the 1980's Eyre Sq. was one of the most dangerous parks in the country and now it's the centrepiece of Galway's revival. What Arthur's Quay needs is proper up keep, flower beds, getting rid of the railings and shops facing on to it. We should demand better from our city, getting rid of parks does the city no favours.

Good point had forgotten about that, but can we tame these Limerick scumbags

bazz26

Cannot see it getting the go ahead to be honest.

It is a pitty something similar could not be proposed for William St which is crying out to be redeveloped.

Karmafaerie

Inge Binge wrote:

just PR gibberish in my opinion

You're probably the most pessimistic person in this forum!
I know Germany would export pessimism if they could but.......!;) (jk)

bazz26 wrote:

Cannot see it getting the go ahead to be honest.

It is a pitty something similar could not be proposed for William St which is crying out to be redeveloped.

There are plans to redevelop William St. (starting with the south side, then the north), but they have to wait until the breathe project and the Opera center are finished, so they can be tied into the other developments.

Amazotheamazing

I think this will happen in some way, the old Dunnes and Liddy street shops will be easily got rid of, none of the Roches, Penny's or Burgerking buildings are protected so no problem there either, Arthur's Quay will be screwed by the Opera centre anyway so I reckon they'll look to redevlop it too.

Of the lot, only the TSB bank, Martins pub and a few old buildings on Patrick street are actually worth keeping. The developer says (but can we trust him) that the companies are in support.

Spengman

I think the main issue with this is would it be wise to place a huge city centre area in the hands of one developer?, much of this area is crying out for proper development especially liddy st, dunnes stores site etc, would love to see penneys and burger king go, this would at least take some of the drabness away from this part of o connell street!, roches stores isnt too bad. You're right about aurthurs quay, in fairness the developers never showed enough ambition when developing this site, it was too small even when it opened, its basically a glorified multi storey carpark!, amazing to think it could be demolished after only 16/17 years!

ricey

billy the squid wrote:

Not going to happen I am afraid.

I wouldnt be so sure Billy. If its one thing people do these days
its build and Limerick city center needs it more then any other
city.

Tiriel

sounds like a major project and could be really good for the city! Cork and Galway have regenerated their cores, while Limerick hasn't quite achieved the same level of inner city renewal and development. I think it could be great for the city, so long as it is planned properly, including open space and proper linkages etc.

billy the squid

Of the lot, only the TSB bank, Martins pub and a few old buildings on Patrick street are actually worth keeping. The developer says (but can we trust him) that the companies are in support.

Is demolition of the Limerick Post part of this plan, if so then I'm in

I wouldnt be so sure Billy. If its one thing people do these days
its build and Limerick city center needs it more then any other
city.

yeah but all those tax incentives for urban renewal run out later this year. So I see a slowdown in development on the way. Besides, can you imagine all the Compulsary Purchase Orders that are going to be needed. plus the rezoning of Arthurs quay park and the accomodation of all those businesses being demolished. It it does go ahead, it will be years before they even get a wrecking ball in there let alone have it completed.

ricey

i don you could be right id just love to
see it happen.

mysterious

I think this was the plan for years, just now there is a developer to do it.:rolleyes:

I mean Arthurs quay is well flagging behind these days, it need a radical facelift just look above at the crappy cark park, yuck. So if Opera is coming on then, it has to go, no option needed.

Also Great if they git rid of that pathetic park, it dosn't even look like a park, it's too small and CUT OFF. It would b
e better if they build over it and have that park type at 5/6 levels up so YOU CAN REALLY SEE BENIFETS OF THE RIVER. It's not working, I say bulldoze it.

My idea would be build a square at the Arthurs quay centre and create a plaza maybe.

Also this has to be the most important project I think everyone has being waiting for, plus it kicks Roches and Dunnes up the ass too:)

mysterious

billy the squid wrote:

Is demolition of the Limerick Post part of this plan, if so then I'm in



yeah but all those tax incentives for urban renewal run out later this year. So I see a slowdown in development on the way. Besides, can you imagine all the Compulsary Purchase Orders that are going to be needed. plus the rezoning of Arthurs quay park and the accomodation of all those businesses being demolished. It it does go ahead, it will be years before they even get a wrecking ball in there let alone have it completed.

Enough of the Limerick pessismism... It will be exciting and since Incentives are fueling what here in the present it WILL create more money in the city, Be positive ffs. Sorry about the bluntness.

It will happen, if we have the idea and desire,

It won't happen, if we give up and talk like this, oh it's not going to happen ! That stuff buggs me, cus this is the problem limerick has had for years an image problem, and here we go, a developer is about to change this, and the response is, It's a failure, look what we are up against, oh no there will be objections, oh no there will be too much issues of zoning.

Take a long walk along the riverside and see what this city has acheived in the last 10 years alone, and take a guess what it will be acheiveing in the next 10 years in a postive outlook. Cork and Galway have incentives and renewals too just like Limerick, But I can garentee you they would'nt be so pessisimistic if a development popps up like this after the incentives are up in there quarters, But in Limerick it's like it won't work blallaa bla


Sure they said the same about the Riverpoint, "It would have a negative impact on the historic skyline of the Georgian buildings etc..
It didn't happen, so will you all lighten up.

Amazotheamazing

mysterious wrote:

I think this was the plan for years, just now there is a developer to do it.:rolleyes:

I mean Arthurs quay is well flagging behind these days, it need a radical facelift just look above at the crappy cark park, yuck. So if Opera is coming on then, it has to go, no option needed.

Also Great if they git rid of that pathetic park, it dosn't even look like a park, it's too small and CUT OFF. It would b
e better if they build over it and have that park type at 5/6 levels up so YOU CAN REALLY SEE BENIFETS OF THE RIVER. It's not working, I say bulldoze it.

My idea would be build a square at the Arthurs quay centre and create a plaza maybe.

Also this has to be the most important project I think everyone has being waiting for, plus it kicks Roches and Dunnes up the ass too:)

You really don't get it do you?

What does the city benefit from having another bulding on the river in place of a park, great, some rich young things can have apartments looking at the river, fantastic. Lets make the park a place people want to go, this build on it defeatism will do more damage than leaving the awful place as is. Sure build all around the park but lets keep a riverpark that benefits everyone, not just those who can afford tenth floor views.

Lets make Steamboat Quay and the boardwalk outside Clohessy's become a proper riverfront rather than just build, build, build with absolutely no plan, lets use the ESB site to make from Milano's down to the Clarion the premier river boardwalk in the country, lets form a plan for this city rather than just jump at every development tht going becuase it mightn't be offered again.

Remember, these guys also designed the original Arthur's Quay centre, lets not pretend they haven't scarred this city before.

Limerick Dude

Amazotheamazing wrote:

You really don't get it do you?

What does the city benefit from having another bulding on the river in place of a park, great, some rich young things can have apartments looking at the river, fantastic. Lets make the park a place people want to go, this build on it defeatism will do more damage than leaving the awful place as is. Sure build all around the park but lets keep a riverpark that benefits everyone, not just those who can afford tenth floor views.

Lets make Steamboat Quay and the boardwalk outside Clohessy's become a proper riverfront rather than just build, build, build with absolutely no plan, lets use the ESB site to make from Milano's down to the Clarion the premier river boardwalk in the country, lets form a plan for this city rather than just jump at every development tht going becuase it mightn't be offered again.

Remember, these guys also designed the original Arthur's Quay centre, lets not pretend they haven't scarred this city before.

i think these guys have learned from their mistakes that is arthurs quay, sure its still a new building (ish) and they already want to tear it down, that tells you that they want to get rid and do something good. also they realise that all these buildings, dunnes, roches, arthurs quay are terrible buildings and are holding the city back from its true potential. so im all for this development. and arthurs quay park is absolutely terrible, its like a car park with patches of grass. anything will be better than that

also i read in the limerick leader that this development could be completed by 2010!! it would be class if it was but i doubt, say it will take much longer.

Karmafaerie

billy the squid wrote:

Is demolition of the Limerick Post part of this plan, if so then I'm in

LMAO

I'll volunteer swing the wrecking ball myself!!!

Amazotheamazing

Limerick Dude wrote:

i think these guys have learned from their mistakes that is arthurs quay, sure its still a new building (ish) and they already want to tear it down, that tells you that they want to get rid and do something good. also they realise that all these buildings, dunnes, roches, arthurs quay are terrible buildings and are holding the city back from its true potential. so im all for this development. and arthurs quay park is absolutely terrible, its like a car park with patches of grass. anything will be better than that

also i read in the limerick leader that this development could be completed by 2010!! it would be class if it was but i doubt, say it will take much longer.

I think these guys have realised there's more money to be made from better designed buildings. I doubt any developers have any altruistic purpose behind their actions. If it made more sense to invest in Cork (or anywhere) they would, lets not be over-welcoming to these people becuase they use long words and promise shiny new buildings. Lets see the plans and discuss them, we can't just welcome a new buildingsite simply becuase we want to be rid of whats there already.

I'm surprised so many people are willing to be blinded to the potential of Arthurs Quay Park simply becuase whats currently there is awful. Look at the Spanish Arch/Claddagh area in Galway to see how a proper riverside park can be built.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro this development, but I'm not willing to cede increasingly strained parkland in this city to identikit flats.

As an aside, we need to take the citycentre back from the scumbags, a new sq can be just as bad as the old park if people don't stand up and refuse to be intimidated by the 15 year old wannabe knackers that plague this city.

Inge Binge

Building up a new riverfront - ye all know what a "Potemkin Village" is?

IB

D-A-V-E

i would love to see the development of a square in the milk market area. wouldnt that be the coolest idea, with a nice big fountain in the middle, also the creation of narrow streets around it like a typical european city, and its not like that place cant be rebuilt because of old georgian buildings or anything? so to me i think that all that market area has the best potential to turn this city around and give it the chillaxed feeling that everyone looks for. what does everyone else think?

Karmafaerie

I have no problem with loosing the park, as long is it's replaced in the plans.
The park as it is now is very badly laid out.
Also, I don't understand where people are getting the "a park is better than a square", thing.
Arthur's Quay Park is practically a square! There is very little green areas, so what would the difference be?
If it's done right (and only if!), I'm definitely all for the idea.

vkid

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Look at the Spanish Arch/Claddagh area in Galway to see how a proper riverside park can be built.
y.

Really can't see Galway as the best example of how to do riverside devolpment. I was there for a few days last week and stayed in an apartment with a balcony overlooking that area .Even the Galway people I stayed with were not happy at the new developments in the Spanish Arch area. These people live in this area by the way and it was a hot topic up there at how poor the quality is of recent developments and many comments were passed on how well Limerick is shaping up in comparison.I was a bit shocked for Galway heads to be complimenting Limerick.. The Riverpoint really is grabbing peoples attention!
Some of the buildings in Galway are shocking and many of the ones done in the last ten years look really bad with a few years wear and tear. One example would be around the corner from the Irish tatoo shop (very near the blue note pub). Even worse than the monstrosity that is Mount Kennet (albeit much smaller)
There is a new development of apartments across the bridge from Jurys Inn that has bits of copper just thrown onto it and right beside it is something that looks like something out of 1950's Moscow followed by a nice stone clad building..It all seems a mish mash of styles in Galway and can;t see time serving it well. The only recent building in Galway that stands out for me is the Eye Cinema and the GMIT which are both also clad in copper but much more thought out than the apartments in the Spanish arch area. I will agree that the public space outside the Spanish arch is ok but its pretty much become just an outdoor drinking area and we watched the cops arriving many times to that spot over the course of one sunny evening. The new museum there blends ok with its surroundings but apparently they don;t have enough exhibits to fill the space.
Good pubs in Galway though!!!

mysterious

Karmafaerie wrote:

I have no problem with loosing the park, as long is it's replaced in the plans.
The park as it is now is very badly laid out.
Also, I don't understand where people are getting the "a park is better than a square", thing.
Arthur's Quay Park is practically a square! There is very little green areas, so what would the difference be?
If it's done right (and only if!), I'm definitely all for the idea.

I agree and I think most would agree that this park is not only badly laid out but doesn't attract footfall.. Parks and squares should be on a footfall location, however this park, is totally insanely the opposite, The justification to keeping this park is because of the views, but hell there are plenty of better riverside views that I can think of than this shambles of a park, I say get rid of it:rolleyes:

I think you missunderstood what most people were giving a term for a square and not a park...

In Ireland a square or a diamond is always known as a planned green or open space in a town where all roads etc meet
For example Diamond in Derry and Donegal
another Eyre square in Galway and Kenmare square etc.

A park in which (Well Im talking about is) is green space on perphiry areas, like riveride, edge of towns, open space along road etc, example Perry Park in Limerick.


Arthurs quay dosn't look like either IMO, To me it's hideous, I go to Limerick often, and EVERY single time I was there, there was nobody in it, no not exaggerating,

The Term of a square was along the lines of most town squares in other towns, ( purpose of a square is what I'm rabbling on about, arthur's quay park failed this) This is what Limerick needs

To Amazing, No I'm not all for tarmaccing the block, A park will be included (if not a complusury order) The developer is not stupid. The park or square should be put on the Arthurs quay SC and the boardwalk and maybe a skate park maybe just a strip for a lookout would be located at the existing park,

better still maybe build a monement (that nobody would still go too:D )

It's not working and that that's.

Cardinal

I've no problem with them getting rid of that park. It's useless. It's far too closed off, and cut off from the city to be worth getting worked about losing it. I'd much rather see them build some retail or restaraunts facing the river, with a nice riverside pedestrian street running along the rivers edge. The park could then be moved into the space currently occupied by Arthurs Quay shopping centre. People might actually make use of it then.

A major issue with this development will be traffic. The road between the shopping centre and the park gets quite a lot of traffic and that will need to be accomodated.

Karmafaerie

Cardinal wrote:

I've no problem with them getting rid of that park. It's useless. It's far too closed off, and cut off from the city to be worth getting worked about losing it. I'd much rather see them build some retail or restaraunts facing the river, with a nice riverside pedestrian street running along the rivers edge. The park could then be moved into the space currently occupied by Arthurs Quay shopping centre. People might actually make use of it then.

A major issue with this development will be traffic. The road between the shopping centre and the park gets quite a lot of traffic and that will need to be accomodated.

They're planning to put an underground road from Henry street to Patrick Street.

Poxyshamrock

An underground road? might work for a year or so but come five years i wouldn't be walking down there after a nightclub!!!!:mad:

Amazotheamazing

Poxyshamrock wrote:

An underground road? might work for a year or so but come five years i wouldn't be walking down there after a nightclub!!!!:mad:

Surely you'd be walking home through the overground park?