Harney - MacDowell

Heinrich

Are these two going to make up their minds? There are more fairy tale coming from this pair than the brothers Grimm ever came up with.

What a wonderful government we are enjoying these days.

Is this really the best of a bad lot?

lostexpectation

Heinrich wrote:

Are these two going to make up their minds? There are more fairy tale coming from this pair than the brothers Grimm ever came up with.

What a wonderful government we are enjoying these days.

Is this really the best of a bad lot?

Is McDowell not already leader of the PDs?? what would Harney do if McDowell were leader?

Chakar

McDowell is the President of the Progressive Democrats organisation.And Harney is the leader of the Progressive Democrats parliamentary party.

Think thats right!!

Vegeta

McDowell is a tool, if you want to see just how sh1te the Criminal Justice Bill is, look at the shooting forum and the arguements this has caused. I wish he was fired

Heinrich

Will he be evicted?

McDowell 'botched his chance' with push for top job

JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell has undermined his prospects of becoming PD leader through his botched leadership heave.

The heir apparent to the PD leadership is now regarded as having opened the door for Liz O'Donnell or Tom Parlon to challenge him, if they wish, for the post whenever Tanaiste Mary Harney steps down.

Ms O'Donnell and Mr Parlon are seen as having leadership ambitions whenever Ms Harney decides to leave. Neither was available for comment last night.

According to PD sources, the minister's premature efforts to take over may have thwarted his chances, whenever the vacancy arises.

The tactics employed by Mr McDowell sparked a negative reaction from some party members and caused others to re-examine his leadership credentials.

"If Mary Harney had decided to step down of her own accord, then that would have been all right. But she wasn't going to be harassed into stepping down," a PD source said.

"McDowell was seen as the heir apparent. He hasn't improved his position now."

The leadership style and success of Ms Harney means she commands loyalty from the small group of TDs and Senators. Many of them were brought into the party by the Tanaiste.

Mr McDowell went as far as lobbying party colleagues last week ahead of the leadership showdown, but when the matter was discussed there was no appetite among TDs and Senators for a leadership change.

On top of that, Mr McDowell found he would have little enough support in the room if he were to push the issue.


'If Mary Harney had decided to step down of her own accord, that would have been all right'


Several party sources say the organisation simply isn't big enough for there to be splits and divided loyalties. Therefore most were taken aback at the extent of the breakdown in the relationship between the two top figures.

"It isn't a case of different camps because there isn't really a division within the party," a PD source said.

Mr Parlon's considerable organisational abilities make him the leading frontrunner from the new batch of TDs elected in 2002.

TheVan

Personally I think it might do the PDs good to have McDowell as leader. Harney seems to have forgotten that the PDs need to be radical or end up being redundant.
The PDs are going to have a bad election anyway and they might as well solidify their own constituency in the run up to the next election.

Vegeta wrote:

McDowell is a tool, if you want to see just how sh1te the Criminal Justice Bill is, look at the shooting forum and the arguements this has caused. I wish he was fired

Also while you might not like it, one thing about McDowell is that he is very good at drafting legislation.

Harney is too busy with Health to focus on the election. A new leader is needed in the PDs and McDowell is an alternative

May I suggest Liz O'Donnell as the new leader?

ArthurDent

Well maybe a mute point if Harney doesn't get back in in her constituency. There are a lot of hungry TDs and TD wannabes on the ground in Dublin Mid-west - spending a hell of a lot more time face to face with d'people.

Now a 3 seater, but will be a 4 seater for 2007 I think, and Gogarty(Greens) and Curran (FF) are dead certs, and Keating had a massive show in the locals - so it's going to be a pretty tough fight between Hearny (PD), Tuffy (Labour) and others for the 3rd and 4th seat.

lostexpectation

how many td have the pds got again??

how many ppl voted for them, not many...

somebody mentioned that McDowell has never kept his seat losing it 3 times after being elected since 87

and backbench FF thing is about the PDs too!

Jackie laughlin

As usual the media have treated this issue as if it were a soap opera. Does anyone know if there is an ideological row going on between McDowell and Harney.

Re Harney's constuency. The only sign of a real poltical difference is between Harney and Tuffey. Gogarty, Curran and Keating are pretty much the same: populists, "There goes the mob, I'm their leader and I must follow", never say anything political in case it upsets someone!

lostexpectation

Jackie laughlin wrote:

As usual the media have treated this issue as if it were a soap opera. Does anyone know if there is an ideological row going on between McDowell and Harney.

Re Harney's constuency. The only sign of a real poltical difference is between Harney and Tuffey. Gogarty, Curran and Keating are pretty much the same: populists, "There goes the mob, I'm their leader and I must follow", never say anything political in case it upsets someone!

It emerged last night that the trigger for the row which plunged the PDs into turmoil for several days was a bill put forward by one of its Senators, Tom Morrissey, in the last fortnight about the rights of people to defend themselves against intruders.

Harney said the dail in reply to question that it WAS not a PD bill

does that mean Mcdowell wanted it pushed through as a vote winner ?

Sponge Bob

TheVan wrote:

Personally I think it might do the PDs good to have McDowell as leader. Harney seems to have forgotten that the PDs need to be radical or end up being redundant.

Herr Flick has a grossly inflated view of his own worth in the Irish polity . With him as leader they will lose Galway and Laois Offaly and Cork and Limerick and collapse back to a small rump in south Dublin until the following election after which they will simply collapse. Herr Flick has lost track of the subtle but important difference between stunts and outrageous statements and radical politics per se.

May I suggest Liz O'Donnell as the new leader?

You may indeed and well done but choosing Liz would imply that the egos are subservient to the party where I feel the party is now subservient to the egos. If Harney and McDowell do not stand back thats the end of the PD's , they will evaporate in effect .

I care less

Jackie laughlin

Doesn't all this lead us back to "radical or redundant"?

The purpose of the PDs is to pursue an extreme right/liberal agenda in order to give people with such views someone for whom to vote.

As I recall Liz O'Donnell joined the PDs in order to get a run for the Dail, having failed to secure that through the Labour Party. She therefore may simply be careerist or have pinkish sentiments in which case she would lead down the redundant road.

Similarly, if it's true about the Morrissey Bill, the party blinked in order to be populist and we have a surfeit of populist parties already.

Cork

There is positioning for leadership in every party.

Not alone that - It happens in any organisations.

Who will suceed the boss?

What we have seen is an over blown media frenzy during the silly season when there was little to write about.

lostexpectation

I think there was plenty to write about seeing what happened the month before...


what exactly is a party trustee?

GuanYin

Hrmmm, I dislike them both intensely, but McDowell comes across much better. I always think langerlans portrayal of Harney, while crude and cruel, sums up her usefulness nicely.

Only one way to settle this: Googlefight!

kevtor34

hope liz O'Donnell becomes the leader of of the pds. years ago always used to like watching her in the dail great top she wore:D

Jackie laughlin

How many people here think that the PDs represent a political perspective and that it matters who leads them?

Vegeta

TheVan wrote:

Also while you might not like it, one thing about McDowell is that he is very good at drafting legislation.

Wow read the section regarding firearms and then tell me how good he is. In this very good legislation there are several vital definitions left out, such as a range and target shooting. Yup that's right in a bill where all rifle and pistol shooters have to use a range for practice or face fines of up to 25,000 euro, what exactly a range is, isn't even defined. Of course people with shotguns shooting at targets don't even get mentioned. Yeah good legislation there. Its not that i don't like it, its just bad

I will not go in to huge detail on it because it is being discussed in detail in the shooting forum in the Criminal Justice Bill thread and the sandbox thread

lostexpectation

TheVan wrote:

Also while you might not like it, one thing about McDowell is that he is very good at drafting legislation.

yeah but the population is only knee high to him so who is bloody checking over it, gods knows what he could be up to.