England v Ecuador 4 pm

MonkeyTennis

take a chill pill babybing

PHB

What about smiles on the faces of cole, terry, lampard, crouch, carragher?

They aren't really important.

I really would like to know why you support England.

Watching Beckham, Rooney, and Neville play brings a smile to my face. If they are happy, I'm happy. If their team does well, despite who it's with, even with England

Ping Chow Chi

Babybing wrote:

and the english media hypes them to bits. If the bloody scottish press hyped scotland half as much as the english press hype england Id hate them as well.

hey, it it really works you up that much, just dont watch / read the english media. It really is as simple as that, it doesn't take a genius to work that one out, but in case you needed any help, I thought I would point it out to you

Me personaly, I thought England where poor - I watched the BBC and I think they basically said the same thing. At least that what I thought they ment by 'must improve alot if they want any hope of progressing' but hey, maybe that is secret English code for 'they played ace and are the best in the world' as thats what most of the above seem to have heard them say

WhiteWashMan

i agree, i thought england were poor.
i think some of the problem was the fact that hargreaves just doesnt know how to play right back.
he wasnt pushing up, he wasnt overlapping, the things that a normal right back would do.
gerrard and lampard were both misfiring today,a nd i think lampard had a very poor game. terry made some huge errors today.

it just seemed to be a teeam full of errors and mistakes, and was pretty boring.

having said that, i think its the right formation.

one thing that is annoying the hell out of me is still theo walcott.
at what point will sven give him a game?

i mean, if youre going to bring someone as a squad member, they should be there to be played. at what point is theo going to get a game.
i think its rubbish. i think defe or bent should be there.

is he expecting walcott to come on with 5 minutes to go in the final and score the hatrick to win 3-2?
madness.
too much sun.

WhiteWashMan

Babybing wrote:

Embarissing display. And the BBC, forget rose tinted glasses they must have rose tinted laser eye surgery. They never stop. The thing I dont understand is people who support England. Okay so putting aside the small matter of 800 years of oppression(sure it was ages ago anyway wasnt it:rolleyes: ) theres still absolutely no reason to support them. They are pathetic to watch, boring, defensive, have no style and the english media hypes them to bits. If the bloody scottish press hyped scotland half as much as the english press hype england Id hate them as well. It must be the endearing players then? Who do you prefer bad boy gangsta rio or squeky voiced over rated wardrobe-coordinating-with-the-missus Beckham?

Then theres that old chestnut about "well I follow the players in the premier league so why not for England?" Well Im a spurs fan and carrick, robinson and lennon were playing today but so where players from arsenal,chelsea,liverpool and Man u who I normally have nothing but contempt for. So please tell what is the reason you people support Engerland? Is it really just for a row and to inspire rants like this?

pipe down rubber duck. people can support whoever they like whether you like it or not.

Pepe LeFrits

England were bad again, it'll be interesting to see how their opponents play now.

Pleased for Beckham, made me some moneys

Rikand

was lovely to see the RTE panel cut into the english side. Gave us all a good chuckle.

England were pathetic, they should be just removed from the tournament right now and the winner of the portugal Holland game get a bye through to the semi finals!

stevenmu

One of the things England are really missing is a strong captain figure to hurl a string of abuse at people when they need it. Whatever about his playing abilities, Beckham isn't the guy to do this. It's Erickson's fault really, I don't think he wants a strong captain because he's such a weak manager himself.

Running Bing

WhiteWashMan wrote:

pipe down rubber duck. people can support whoever they like whether you like it or not.

Take it easy WhiteWashMan. People can indeed support anyone they want, my post has nothing to do with that, I simply asked why they support a certain team. I apologise if my post has offended anyone. That was never the point of it. I feel all the points I made were valid and fair yet all i get is a string of posts telling me to pipe down and people ridiculing (Ok lightheartedly:) I hope;) ) my intelligence. Admittedly I wasnt in the best form writing that post haveing heard the comments of the bbc panel (I know, I know DONT WATCH IT. Its like a car crash you just have to:) ) But I really would like to know peoples reasons for supporting them.

PHB

One of the things England are really missing is a strong captain figure to hurl a string of abuse at people when they need it.

Wayne Rooney

He was screaming at Gerrard and Lampard, literally screaming at him. I'd imagine at half-time he was the one giving the team talk.

Beckham doesn't lead by his voice, he used to lead by his actions, when he is playing bad, he isn't a leader at all.

zAbbo

I'd imagine Rooney was saying something along the lines of 'stop feckin lumping the ball at me'

How hard can it be to put a ball through to Wanye, at worst a 50/50 one. He'll always come off with something.Even play the ball into space. Instead they hoofed it up to him with his back 30 yards from goal, the mind boggles

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

Wayne Rooney

Too Young and he has enough pressure without the added responsibility of being captain. Gary Neville (when fit) Stephen Gerrard or possibly John Terry may be a better choice.

I think if Sven sticks with the formation they may play better next game.I would like to see Lennon on from the start as he has looked lively when he has featured. That would mean either dropping Beckham or Lampard, on todays performance Lampard would be more likely to be dropped. I don't believe Sven would even consider dropping Beckham despite his recent comments to the contrary.

Chucky the tree

haha, england now actually have a great chance against portugal.

Deco, costhina, probaly figo and ronaldo will be missing.

PHB

Terry will have trouble keeping his place if he keeps playing like this.
Gerrard is a captain of the old English mode, and I'd love him if he played for my team, but Rooney, he's special, and it's clear to everyone, he wants it more than anyone on that team.
But for now, the next England captain, under McClaren, jesus, Rooney would be a ballsy choice, but he could be captain for 10 years, and I'm fairly sure he'll be United's captain after Neville retires in 2-3 years, so...

Dave!

England were atrocious again... Ecuador played better than I had anticipated. Their defence was sh*t though.

Attractive Nun

Alright, at the start of this thing I was supporting England, don't really know why. But I now realise I actually despise watching them play. They are so very boring. Aside from the goal (which really should have been saved, although I admit it was a good free kick), Beckham did nothing. Literally, nothing. Lampard has become an absolute sham, he did nothing except spurn good chances, which is par for the course based on his tournament to date. Gerrard was finally released forward, and he was shocking.

Only Rooney, Ashley Cole and Ferdinand justified their starting place today. Sven's strategy seems to simply be to pick his best eleven players on paper, and stick them on the pitch regardless of how they might play together. I have a new hatred for teams that just go through the motions and attempt to nick something from a setpiece. That is my definition of this England side. What's worse, they could well beat a Portugal sans Deco/Figo.

herbieflowers

If everyone around these forums hates them so much then surely they won't have to wait long to see them get found out! Patience I say!

Attractive Nun

herbieflowers wrote:

If everyone around these forums hates them so much then surely they won't have to wait long to see them get found out! Patience I say!

The thing is, they'll probably win the bloody thing at this rate! The luck they are getting is unreal. The easiest group in the competition. The easiest opponent in the round of 16. Owen injury forcing them to switch to a better formation. Portugal getting half their team suspended. Jayney...

unkel

Attractive Nun wrote:

The luck they are getting is unreal

Agree. They're pretty much in the semis already

Most unlikely they'll win it though, unless something very dodgy happens, like in the '98 final

tdv

Attractive Nun wrote:

What's worse, they could well beat a Portugal sans Deco/Figo.

Dont worry mate that wont happen, Big Phill won't let it. He was like an extra player for Portugal tonite. Best coach of the World Cup in my opinon.

Running Bing

The Muppet wrote:

Too Young and he has enough pressure without the added responsibility of being captain.

Hell make a great captain someday though. The thing that has surprised me most about england is how poor technically individuals have been. Things like lampards shots outside the box, beckhams crosses, terry's tackling/clearing/heading, robinsons command of the goal have all been horrendous. For club all these things are top notch.

Beckham needs to be dropped. The thing that lennon has that becks doesnt is the ability to take on and beat players. Their a changed team with him because he can beat players and cross from the touchline causing teams all sorts of problems. Beckham cant do that so most of his crosses are from deep positions and are easy for defenders to deal with. They dont have the imagination to play through the middle and thats why everytime their just floating the ball in from deep positions that dont trouble defenders at all. If im not mistaken every England goal has either been from a set piece, a shot outside the box or a floated in ball over the top. That sums them up.

Ps. Hargreaves gave one of the worst displays ive witnessed so far in this world cup from right back. He cant be blamed though as its clearly not his position.

BaZmO*

The Muppet wrote:

I don't believe Sven would even consider dropping Beckham despite his recent comments to the contrary.

There's not a rat's arse chance in hell of Sven dropping Beckham. It would just show him up as the inept manager that he is. When a manager picks a player to be captain he picks a player which he believes will play (fitness permitting) a full game for every match.

And as for Walcott playing? Not a chance. Sure why would Sven be touting Joe Cole and Gerrard as potential forwards if he believed Walcott was good enough at this level?

redspider

England scraped by Ecuador in a lack-lustre performance by both sides. Ecuador lacked any capability to threaten England, and whilst they had some fitness and agility they did not have the ball control and technical ability.

England meanwhile controlled the posession in the game and tried some patient build-ups, none of which really threatened. This was a game that was heading for a 0-0. Beckham, justified his place in the team just by his free-kick goal alone. In most other teams he would probably be dropped, but England need him, even if he is playing below par at those skills for which he is noted for, crossing, free-kicks, corners, etc.

Hargreaves is not a right back. Why managers like Eriksson experiment in world cup games I just do not fathom! Beckham needs a good right back to allow space for him to put in whipped crosses. Maybe the return of a fit Gary Neville would facilitate that. The 4-5-1 formation was better, and more suited to the likes of Lampard and even Gerrard.

Carrick was ok, but no more than that. He sprayed a few passes and held his position well, but his passes were in the main not latched onto by Rooney. Rooney had too much to do and wasnt able to get the ball and create that much. He managed to control and create a few chances but only a few.

And they all have Asley Cole to thank for that saving block of his with Robinson clearly looking beaten.

Babybing wrote:

The thing that has surprised me most about england is how poor technically individuals have been. Things like lampards shots outside the box, beckhams crosses, terry's tackling/clearing/heading, robinsons command of the goal have all been horrendous. For club all these things are top notch.

Beckham needs to be dropped. The thing that lennon has that becks doesnt is the ability to take on and beat players. If im not mistaken every England goal has either been from a set piece, a shot outside the box or a floated in ball over the top. That sums them up.

Lampard is not having a good tournament. Whether a goal will fly in or not we'll have to wait and see. He is taking enough shots anyway. Terry is having some iffy moments. He usually gets away with these at Chelsea. Ferdinand is likewise and perhaps Robinson's lack of command in the box is feeding into the jitters for all 3 of them.

Beckham wont be dropped, but even the BBC (in the shape of Hansen) have hinted at it. After the world cup, it will surely happen. Perhaps Lennon and Beckham and Neville would create a strong and dangerous right side, and forget about going down the left.

Gerrard probably should be given more chances to shoot from range. I thought he played well at times but himself and Lampard arent on the same page when it comes to attacking.

The Dutch have done England a big favour. If there is a good time to meet Portugal, this is it. But surely its just a matter of time before England get knocked out. They are just not good enough, in terms of structure and in terms of the players that are doing the jobs, even if they were at their full capability, and for me they arent doing that nor at the moment they dont look likely to.

redspider

Running Bing

redspider wrote:

Carrick was ok, but no more than that. He sprayed a few passes and held his position well, but his passes were in the main not latched onto by Rooney. Rooney had too much to do and wasnt able to get the ball and create that much. He managed to control and create a few chances but only a few.

Must say I was a bit disapointed with carrick. I expected much more from him. When I initially seen what odds ecudor were I said Ill definately have a bet but when I heard sven was planning on playing carrick I thought twice. I thought hed control the midfield and give gerrard and lampard freedom to roam all over the pitch. I thought theyd be very dangerous and with rooney up front I was really thought they might start playing football, but I saw no evidence of any of that. Makes you wonder if the team really do believe in sven as they say. Theres been a lot of shiit with him and I find it hard to believe all the players still stick by him 100% after incidents such as the undercover reporter and leaving defoe out and bringing walcott(apparently defoe was in excellent form banging in the goals during training while walcott was rubbish). All that has to have an effect.

Pepe LeFrits

Lampard should be dropped in favour of Hargreaves for Portugal. He's been piss poor this tournament, even my Chelsea supporting housemate agrees. Hargreaves has improved his stock a lot and is the best option as a partner for Gerrard at the moment.

evilhomer

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Lampard should be dropped

Yes!

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

in favour of Hargreaves

No! Hargreaves will see none of the ball against Portugal and is clearly not a very good passer of the ball.

I think that Lampard is getting in the way of the other two midfielders playing. He hasn't played well for close to six months and should be dropped.


Lampard should go and I think it should become.

---

Robinson
Neville---Carragher---Terry---Cole

---

Beckham---Carrick---Gerrard---Cole

---

Rooney

---

---

Crouch

---

I don't think Sven will drop Ferdinand, even though he really should.
I also don't think he will drop Beckham, even though Lennon has had a much bigger impact in normal play then Beckham has.


Why does Sven insist on playing players that clearly don't complement each other? He used to do it all the time with Scholes aswell. Just drop a centre-mid FFS!!!!!

PHB

What has Terry done to warrent his position ahead of Ferdinand?

Sven is sticking with a 4-3-3, he said he thought the system worked, so he's really gotta stick with it now.

If I had a choice, the real England team that would work the best.

---

Robinson

---

Neville---Ferdinand---Terry---Cole---

---

Lennon---Carrick---Jenas---Downing-

---

---

Rooney--Owen

---

Never gona happen though

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

What has Terry done to warrent his position ahead of Ferdinand?

Sven is sticking with a 4-3-3, he said he thought the system worked, so he's really gotta stick with it now.

If I had a choice, the real England team that would work the best.

---

Robinson

---

Neville---Ferdinand---Terry---Cole---

---

Lennon---Carrick---Jenas---Downing-

---

---

Rooney--Owen

---

Never gona happen though

Jenas ahead of Gerrard? :eek:

PHB

Yeh, in terms of just getting a good team going, that would actually work together.

casanova_kid

The best team they could play with their current group of players is
Robinson
Neville Terry Carragher Cole
Carrick Hargreaves
Lennon Gerrard J.Cole
Rooney.

PHB

If I was playing a 4-3-3, I'd play Lampard over Gerrard. Gerrard is just too damm direct. If you have him in your team, you need to accept he is going to play the killer ball every time and lose possesion if it goes badly. With him, you have to have a player like Alonso who can ping the ball anywhere whenever in the team, and England don't have that. Lampard however appears to be ****e for England. So inconclusion, drop them both

casanova_kid

PHB wrote:

If I was playing a 4-3-3, I'd play Lampard over Gerrard. Gerrard is just too damm direct. If you have him in your team, you need to accept he is going to play the killer ball every time and lose possesion if it goes badly. With him, you have to have a player like Alonso who can ping the ball anywhere whenever in the team, and England don't have that. Lampard however appears to be ****e for England. So inconclusion, drop them both

I think Lampard's game is shooting and scoring and right now, he's shooting but not scoring so he's pretty useless, however I think if you gave Gerrard a free reign going forward, a bit like what Figo has, you'd see alot better from him.

PHB

Maybe, but he was given the allowance to go forward in the last match and was still woeful.

Personally, I don't think Gerrard is smart(in footballing brains) enough to play in CM, and his best position for him and the team is on the right wing.

The Rooster

Changes I'd make:

Lennon for Beckham
Beckham for Lampard (both playing as bad as each other, but Becks stays in the team for dead balls).
Neville or Carra for Hargeaves
Hargreaves for Carrick (more impressive as the holding midfielder, albeit Carrick might improve with each game)