stopping the wee wees

Bettyboop

ok I need advice on stopping 2 of my 4 shih-tzus from weeing in the house
the back door is open all day but they go out come in and wee I know its a
domination thing but they are neutured,I have tried putting vinegar on the spots
where they wee but no good. jeyes fluid, flash,detergent,bleach,jeyes amonia,
orange oil.mustard,whiskey,get off pelletts(yum yum)eat them:D
eucalyptus oil,savlon,dettol,the scented trees you hang in the car:D neutrodol,every air freshner on the market spray ones solid ones,ones that spray
every few minutes and nothing works.Pampers?? not yet.Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks:(

eiretamicha

Bettyboop wrote:

ok I need advice on stopping 2 of my 4 shih-tzus from weeing in the house
the back door is open all day but they go out come in and wee I know its a
domination thing but they are neutured,I have tried putting vinegar on the spots
where they wee but no good. jeyes fluid, flash,detergent,bleach,jeyes amonia,
orange oil.mustard,whiskey,get off pelletts(yum yum)eat them:D
eucalyptus oil,savlon,dettol,the scented trees you hang in the car:D neutrodol,every air freshner on the market spray ones solid ones,ones that spray
every few minutes and nothing works.Pampers?? not yet.Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks:(

Oh goodness, I'm sorry your babies are weeing in the house. I wish I could offer some good advice (hopefully someone else on here can!), but my mom's Shih-Tzu is housetrained, knows she's supposed to pee outside, does pee outside most of the time, but sometimes just walks over to the bathroom or closet and pees! For no good reason! Just cuz she feels like it!!

Shih-Tzus are notorious for weeing indoors. They're such stubborn brats, but they're so darn cute, how can we stay mad at them for long?

layke

When they pee on your carpet again, dip their nose in it. Dogs dislike it and it's the most common method of house training.

peasant

Dipping a dog's nose in its own pee is just sensless and pointless cruelty, NOT a training mehtod.

@ the OP

Training and observation is what's needed. Praise them, when they pee outside, correct them when they do it inside. Observe them and after a while you will be able to read the signs and correct them even before they do it (inside). After a while they will not do it any more.

Battle won.

Nothing to do with "dominance" just not fully trained, that's all.

peasant

eiretamicha wrote:

Shih-Tzus are notorious for weeing indoors. They're such stubborn brats, but they're so darn cute, how can we stay mad at them for long?

Nope ...Shi-Tzu's are no more "notorious" for peeing indoors than any other dog.

What they are though, is "cutey-pie" lickle fluffballs that nobody takes serious as a dog, least of all their owners.
They get spoiled, treated like humans or worse, toys and because they are so "cuuute" all attempts at training are at best half hearted.

That's why Shi-Tzu's do whatever they like (including peeing where they like) ...because they never were trained otherwise.

Nothing to do with their "breed" ...just basic human failure.

Bettyboop

layke wrote:

When they pee on your carpet again, dip their nose in it. Dogs dislike it and it's the most common method of house training.

thanks tried that but no use.No carpets anymore had to tile all downstairs because of this as wooden floors would probably warp over time also tried
white spirit to no avail.I have one dog who used to wee on my pillow but I have a stair gate now the problem gets worse in the bad weather as they look through the dog flap see its raining and decide they arent gonna get there feet wet and pee in the hall instead.I have locked them outside but it made no difference either I got then neutured on advice but it didnt solve anything.
The culprits:D

eiretamicha

peasant wrote:

Nope ...Shi-Tzu's are no more "notorious" for peeing indoors than any other dog.

What they are though, is "cutey-pie" lickle fluffballs that nobody takes serious as a dog, least of all their owners.
They get spoiled, treated like humans or worse, toys and because they are so "cuuute" all attempts at training are at best half hearted.

That's why Shi-Tzu's do whatever they like (including peeing where they like) ...because they never were trained otherwise.

Nothing to do with their "breed" ...just basic human failure.

Actually, and not meaning to hijack this thread with a debate, but it does have alot to do with their breed.

I was a veterinary technician for 6 years until I got the job I'm currently in about four months ago. And the winner of the pee-pee in the house prize? Shih-Tzus. Many of which had undergone many months of obedience training with determined owners who had patience enough to continue obedience training even when the classes were done. There are many other varities of cutesy-wootsy dogs that do not have this urinating issue. One can't simply place the blame on "human failure".

These dogs have major dominance issues -- somewhat akin to a human with "small man's complex". It's a genetically bred behavioural problem, and while diligent human training can help, it's not 100% guaranteed to completely correct the problem...unfortunately.

layke

Well, i'll ask my uncle he owns a pet shop and has been dealing with animals for years. Maybe he has some other training method.

..and as for dipping the dogs nose in it being cruel... well I never hit the dog, where as my mother used to give me a wallop if I was being a bad boy.

The dog got off easy I guess.

Bettyboop

eiretamicha wrote:

Actually, and not meaning to hijack this thread with a debate, but it does have alot to do with their breed.

I was a veterinary technician for 6 years until I got the job I'm currently in about four months ago. And the winner of the pee-pee in the house prize? Shih-Tzus. Many of which had undergone many months of obedience training with determined owners who had patience enough to continue obedience training even when the classes were done. There are many other varities of cutesy-wootsy dogs that do not have this urinating issue. One can't simply place the blame on "human failure".

These dogs have major dominance issues -- somewhat akin to a human with "small man's complex". It's a genetically bred behavioural problem, and while diligent human training can help, it's not 100% guaranteed to completely correct the problem...unfortunately.

you have described my dogs 100%:D

peasant

eiretamicha wrote:

Actually, and not meaning to hijack this thread with a debate, but it does have alot to do with their breed.

I was a veterinary technician for 6 years until I got the job I'm currently in about four months ago. And the winner of the pee-pee in the house prize? Shih-Tzus. Many of which had undergone many months of obedience training with determined owners who had patience enough to continue obedience training even when the classes were done. There are many other varities of cutesy-wootsy dogs that do not have this urinating issue. One can't simply place the blame on "human failure".

These dogs have major dominance issues -- somewhat akin to a human with "small man's complex". It's a genetically bred behavioural problem, and while diligent human training can help, it's not 100% guaranteed to completely correct the problem...unfortunately.

"Dominant" = the label that gets attached to every dog that his/her owner can't handle properly.

Lots of small dogs (most of them of terrier origin of some kind) were bred for feistiness and stubborness ...exactly what you would need if you were a small dog who's job it is to hunt down aggressive vermin (rats and/or badgers) almost your own size.

The clue to the problem lises in this sentence:

Many of which had undergone many months of obedience training with determined owners who had patience enough to continue obedience training even when the classes were done

Months of training ...even many months ...even after the classes have ended ....are not the "solution". There is no quick fix. You can't just go and have your dog "adjusted" in one quick swoop and leave it at that.

Dogs learn by constant repetition of the exact same behaviour. So you have to keep at it. Over and over again, all the time.
Now, there are more placid dogs, that will just "give in" and do what they're expected for convenience's and comfort's sake. Not the little feisty ones ...one slip ...one "getting away with it" ...and you can start all over again.

Now add to that the cute appearance and the cleverness of a Shi-Tzu ...and every now and then they are let "get away" with all sorts ...and the cycle begins afresh.

But who's to blame for that? The alledgedly "dominant" dog or the obviously inconsequent owner?

Don't blame the dog for its cleverness ...and please don't make human failure to be consequent out to be a "genetic breeding defect" in dogs.


These feisty little buggers are not "dominant" they are just consequent. I was let away with this last time ...therefore I will do it again.

So do not EVER let them away with it ...be more consequent than they are.

Simple really ...all you have to do is be clinically precise in your do's and dont's and keep all emotion and ambiguity out of it.

Easier said than done, I know ...but if a little dog can do it ...so can you:D

Added to just clarify one point:
While obedience training as such is a good thing, it will not "cure" unwanted behaviour around the house. Learning how to walk on the lead properly will not teach a dog not to wee inside the house.
And it's usually at home, where doggy gets awy with little indescretions ..ah sure, he was soooo good at class today, just give him a break now

eiretamicha

Peasant, I agree with most of what you said, but we have to remember that not everyone can keep an eye on their dogs 24/7. These little brats don't usually like peeing right in front of eye's view because they know they're going to be scolded. Therefore they usually go find a place to tinkle, and the owner doesn't find the mess until later. And I believe we're all in agreement that trying to correct a dog for something it has done earlier is no way to train it. It won't understand what it's being scolded for.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I've owned many types of breeds -- big ones and small ones -- and some dogs are just persistantly more difficult to train than others. My mom's Shih-Tzu, who was my dog for many years until I moved out and got married and Mom wouldn't let me have her , still pees on the floor when she doesn't feel like peeing outside. I worked with her for many years, taught her by repetition, praised her when she did good, corrected her when she did bad, and she would still sneak into another room and pee if I wasn't watching her.

My Lhasa Apso, a similar breed in size and stature to the Shih-Tzu, has been trained in the exact same manner as the Shih-Tzu, and he never pees in the house. Ever. He had one accident when I first brought him home at 6 months of age and that was it. He barks at the door when he wants out, does his thing, and comes back in when he's ready. He sits, stays, comes when he's called (for the most part, sometimes he's more interested in the kitten, lol), and will dance on his hind feet for carrots. Now maybe he's just an awesome dog (and I'd like to think so! ), but Lhasas are known, as a breed, to be easier to train than Shih-Tzus.

Of course, my German Shepherd remains the best dog I ever had in regards to compainionship, but that didn't stop him from dragging me down the street when I walked him, or marking his territory on the kitchen table! :eek: I do put most of this down to human error, however, because I was a child at the time and my parents were not home enough to continue working with him.

Go to google and check out the breed-specific information websites. These statistics are not pulled out of thin air. Shih-Tzus tend to be more dominant as a breed, and I agree with you 100% that their feisty personalities are only made worse by people who baby them, spoil them, and let them get away with everything and anything. But there are people who genuinely work day after day with their dogs, trying everything in the book to firmly but gently teach them how to behave, and their dogs still think they're the boss. I truly don't believe we can place all the blame on human failure in these specific situations.

peasant

The peeing inside could also have two very simple reasons:

a) small dogs have small bladders and need to go more often

b) ...and this isn't directed at anyone personally ...
not only does doggy-woggy not want to go out in the rain ...neither does "mummy" or "daddy" ...not again ...aren't they just after spoiling their expensive hairdo / designer shoes??



but we could also just call it "dominance" and make it easy for ourselves, couldn't we ?

eiretamicha

peasant wrote:

The peeing inside could also have two very simple reasons:

a) small dogs have small bladders and need to go more often

b) ...and this isn't directed at anyone personally ...
not only does doggy-woggy not want to go out in the rain ...neither does "mummy" or "daddy" ...not again ...aren't they just after spoiling their expensive hairdo / designer shoes??



but we could also just call it "dominance" and make it easy for ourselves, couldn't we ?

a) Small bladders have nothing to do with needing to pee more. Small dogs with small bladders also drink less (unless they're like my Lhasa and have kidney disease, then they need to pee all the time )

b) This doesn't apply to the many people that have an enclosed or fenced-in backyard.

I hear what you're saying though. I think we could both agree that some of these smaller breeds do indeed have dominance issues that are (sometimes) only made worse by owners who do not have the time nor the inclination to do something about it.

I'm simply trying to point out that this isn't true in every specific situation. Some dogs are just stubborn little brats who think they're the boss and do what they want, no matter how much patience and determination their owner has.

peasant

Patience and determination are essential for dog training. But you also need a strong will, a clear concept and a sort of tough, cool, unemotional and unwaivering approach.

Now ...once again no personal attack intended ...how many of your typical Shi-Tzu owners would fit that "tough, cool, unemotional, unwaivering" bracket ??

Exactly ... none.

Now, imagine for a moment you were a Shi-Tzu breeder (or breeders orginisation) and you want to sell more of your "product". How do you tell your (and once again no personal attack intended) prospective clientel that they can forget about doting over their lickle doggy-woggy and instead they will have to get a grip on themselves and get their airy heads out of the clouds and stamp down some ground rules?

Simple ...you don't ...because that's not what they are looking for.

Instead you insert a lame footnote into the breed description about how a Shi-Tzu, besides his/her lovely appearance can be a little devil maybe even with some "dominance" issues on rare occassions.

Prospective buyer is happy ...after all he/she not only wants a doggy-woggy ...he she wants a slightly cheeky doggy-woggy ...sooo much more fun, isn't it?

Until things start to go wrong ...then all of a sudden the dog is "dominant" ...sure didn't the breed description say so ... ??

So much for "dominance" and breed descriptions.

Balderdash !!

(But it explains, why Shi-Tzu's rank so high in your personal wee-wee statistics ...not because of their breed ...but because of the typical profile of their owners)


If your dog rules you, then YOU are doing something wrong ...not the dog.
By design, every dog wants to fit into a social structure with clearly outlined guidelines. This is how dogs work.
If the guidelines are not clear (and this means clear to the dog ...they might be perfectly clear to you, but they need to be brought across so that a dog can understand them), the dog sets up its own guidelines.

A so called "dominant" dog is just a dog that lacks a competent leader .

eiretamicha

peasant wrote:

Patience and determination are essential for dog training. But you also need a strong will, a clear concept and a sort of tough, cool, unemotional and unwaivering approach.

Now ...once again no personal attack intended ...how many of your typical Shi-Tzu owners would fit that "tough, cool, unemotional, unwaivering" bracket ??

Exactly ... none.

Now, imagine for a moment you were a Shi-Tzu breeder (or breeders orginisation) and you want to sell more of your "product". How do you tell your (and once again no personal attack intended) prospective clientel that they can forget about doting over their lickle doggy-woggy and instead they will have to get a grip on themselves and get their airy heads out of the clouds and stamp down some ground rules?

Simple ...you don't ...because that's not what they are looking for.

Instead you insert a lame footnote into the breed description about how a Shi-Tzu, besides his/her lovely appearance can be a little devil maybe even with some "dominance" issues on rare occassions.

Prospective buyer is happy ...after all he/she not only wants a doggy-woggy ...he she wants a slightly cheeky doggy-woggy ...sooo much more fun, isn't it?

Until things start to go wrong ...then all of a sudden the dog is "dominant" ...sure didn't the breed description say so ... ??

So much for "dominance" and breed descriptions.

Balderdash !!

(But it explains, why Shi-Tzu's rank so high in your personal wee-wee statistics ...not because of their breed ...but because of the typical profile of their owners)


If your dog rules you, then YOU are doing something wrong ...not the dog.
By design, every dog wants to fit into a social structure with clearly outlined guidelines. This is how dogs work.
If the guidelines are not clear (and this means clear to the dog ...they might be perfectly clear to you, but they need to be brought across so that a dog can understand them), the dog sets up its own guidelines.

A so called "dominant" dog is just a dog that lacks a competent leader .

No disrespect meant, but I think you may be over-generalizing just a wee bit.

I've already explained that I've met many Shih Tzu owners who were not rich little old ladies who let their doggy-woggy's walk all over them, but instead were diligent, determined owners who put down a firm but gentle hand and STILL were seeing little to no success. Shih Tzus aren't sought after only by high-class ladies. The breed has some wonderful qualities, many of which are appealing to many different kinds of people for many different reasons.

Your argument simply doesn't work in every single situation.

peasant

Ok, ok ...I suggest a compromise:

You stop using that over abused word "dominant" and I admit to the fact that some individual dogs may be just a bit more stubborn and resourceful than others .... and that there *may* be just a slightly larger than average number of these dogs to be found among Shi-Tzu's ...

howsthat ??

eiretamicha

peasant wrote:

Ok, ok ...I suggest a compromise:

You stop using that over abused word "dominant" and I admit to the fact that some individual dogs may be just a bit more stubborn and resourceful than others .... and that there *may* be just a slightly larger than average number of these dogs to be found among Shi-Tzu's ...

howsthat ??

I don't mind if you "admit it" or not. I didn't participate in this discussion to prove that I'm right and you're wrong, I just wanted the readers of this forum to have some basic insight that it can, indeed, be difficult to potty-train a Shih Tzu. Nothing more, nothing less, if I dare be so cliche'.

But I do appreciate your insight.

peasant

But I do appreciate your insight

I appreciate yours too !

Because this:

just wanted the readers of this forum to have some basic insight that it can, indeed, be difficult to potty-train a Shih Tzu. Nothing more, nothing less, if I dare be so cliche'

sounds just sooo much better than your original statement:

These dogs have major dominance issues -- somewhat akin to a human with "small man's complex". It's a genetically bred behavioural problem, and while diligent human training can help, it's not 100% guaranteed to completely correct the problem...unfortunately.

See ?

Dave!

Well the way I trained my dog was to bring her outside very frequently... Like every 20 minutes maybe. Put her on the grass, and give her a command for doing the business (mine is "do your pee!"). I keep saying it, and as soon as she starts to go, start saying "GOOD GIRL! Do your pee, good GIRL!!! do your pee, do your pee, good girl!!!" and start getting hysterical and praising her Treats would probably help, although I never had them handy so I just used praise.

But yeh, bring them out all the time, have a command for it (they'll eventually go on command [although not when their bladder is empty ]), and praise them when they obey. As soon as you see them starting to pee in the house, say "NO! BAD DOG!!!" and stuff like that, and straight away take them out to the garden onto the grass, where you start the "GOOD GIRL! Do your pee, good GIRL!" sh*t again...

It takes a bit of determination, but my dog learned quite quickly (she's a boxer).

Good luck

eiretamicha

DaveMcG wrote:

Well the way I trained my dog was to bring her outside very frequently... Like every 20 minutes maybe. Put her on the grass, and give her a command for doing the business (mine is "do your pee!"). I keep saying it, and as soon as she starts to go, start saying "GOOD GIRL! Do your pee, good GIRL!!! do your pee, do your pee, good girl!!!" and start getting hysterical and praising her Treats would probably help, although I never had them handy so I just used praise.

But yeh, bring them out all the time, have a command for it (they'll eventually go on command [although not when their bladder is empty ]), and praise them when they obey. As soon as you see them starting to pee in the house, say "NO! BAD DOG!!!" and stuff like that, and straight away take them out to the garden onto the grass, where you start the "GOOD GIRL! Do your pee, good GIRL!" sh*t again...

It takes a bit of determination, but my dog learned quite quickly (she's a boxer).

Good luck

LOL, we humans can be so silly when trying to train our dogs. I use, "Let's go pee pees!" with my puppy Panda.

Nina_Angelica

a comment about dogs peeing in the rain...

i have two miniature pinschers, one male, one female, both about 8 years old now. they are brilliant and rarely EVER mess in the house (after 8 years you'd think they should have it down by now ) but for some reason, EVERY time it rains, my female will NOT, go pee outside!! she'll hold it for a very long time (which she can do now because she's 8) until it stops raining OR if it's close to bedtime she'll wee in her bed!
If I put a lead on her and take her out myself it works but only 50% of the time.
I've since stopped trying to figure this one out as we don't get *too* much rain in Canada and if there's a break in the weather she'll go then but just thought I'd mention that other breeds do this too!

LegacyUser

Nina I have a six month old CKC and I have the same problem with the rain. I found it very easy to train my dog to relive herself outdoors and to use paper when indoors at night....but she will not go outside to pee if its raining. Now she will not dirty her cage where her bed is but will go on the floor in the kitchen where her paper is usually laid at night.


As far as my training her went I just found the spot where she kept reliving her self and then laid down paper...eventually she associated the paper with reliving herself when the back door was closed.As far as getting her to go outside whenever she went to look for the paper I led her outside and when she relived herself I praised her and gave her a treat.

Cant figure out what to do about the rain thing though.

peasant

Cant figure out what to do about the rain thing though.

Not a lot, to be honest.
Some dogs just don't like going to the loo in the rain. Add to the situation that the owner isn't particularly overjoyed about having to go out in bad weather either (or that the dog just gets shoved out the back door) ...they might just not "feel like it" ...as the whole thing takes on a "negative athmosphere" ...if you know what I mean.

If they don't want to go ...you can't really make them. The best you can hope for is that you spot the point when they can't hold it anymore and utilize that moment ...and if you miss it ...tough ...just clean up the mess and say no more about it.

Your dog peeing on the paper (or the place where the paper is during the night) ...well that's entirely your doing ...you trained her to do just that ... so don't complain about it.

Not her fault that there is no paper in the usual spot, just because its daytime:D

Nina_Angelica

i don't think kaiser is really complaining but rather sharing his/her experience's w/ his/her dog.

think it's safe to say all dogs and their habits are different and due alot in part to the training they've received as well picking up on individual household traits

i'm guessing there isn't much we can do about the rain thing either, a mystery it shall remain!
This is why i adapt the saying "grin and bear it" (cos let's face it, cleaning up wee is no fun!) BUT i love my dogs and wouldn't trade 'em for the world. interesting to know that this does happen to others though!