FON Social Router

antoinolachtnai

Also, see the video about FON at

http://en.fon.com/info/video.php

The largest WiFi community in the world will sell $60 Linksys and Buffalo WiFi Routers for $5

London, Madrid, San Francisco -- Today FON is announcing its most ambitious plan to date for achieving global WiFi coverage (Internet connection without wires or cables). This multinational company founded in Spain, has built the largest WiFi community in the world with over 54,000 registered users in just eight months. FON is now subsidizing its FON “Social Router” for any company, organization, or person who shares part of their Internet connection with the FON Community. In exchange for sharing, FON’s members obtain free access to all of the FON WiFi access points across the globe.

The company’s goal is reach 50,000 active WiFi access points by this fall and to reach one million WiFi access points by December 2007.

The FON Social Router will be sold for $5 to all users that join this global initiative and register the router as a WiFi access point within the FON Community. The Linksys and Buffalo routers normally have a market price around $60, and they have been preinstalled with FON’s software permitting them to be part of FON’s social network.

“With FON, the community’s own members are the ones who lay the foundations for WiFi coverage. This is what we call user generated infrastructure. This movement is proving to be profoundly efficient. With this in mind, we have decided to invest in one million FON Social Routers,” explains Martin Varsavsky, FON founder and CEO.

FON is now the foremost company in the world that unites WiFi technology with the predominant trend in the Internet industry of creating social networks with user generated content. This makes FON a strategic partner for Internet Service Providers (ISPs). FON has reached agreements with Neuf Cegetel in France, Jazztel in Spain, GlocalNet and Labs2 in Sweden, and is speaking with ISPs around the world to allow their customers to take their WiFi connection everywhere.

The company also announced today that this week it will launch an extensive array of services and features, including the new “Bill” model. The Bills are FON users that share their WiFi with the Community but choose to share revenues with FON instead of free roaming around the world.

Users without a FON Social Router, also known as “Aliens”, will be able to buy one-day access passes for $3, and fifty percent of the revenue will go to the “Bill” -- the owner of the hotspot where the pass is sold. These two new user types now complete FON’s business model. Until now, FON was only available for “Linus” members, the users who share part of their bandwidth in exchange for free access to all FON hotspots worldwide.

Bills and Linus’ also now have the capability to personalize the web page that visitors access when connecting to a FON WiFi signal. This feature will be especially appealing to Bills for promoting their hotspots in business or touristy locations.

The FON routers’ social features will be available on a portal customized for each user type. Each member of the FON Community (or “FONeros” as FON calls them) will be able to access this portal with a username and password through www.fon.com.

The FONeros will be able to enjoy features such as reminding the user of where and when thy connected to FON at different places in the world, searching maps to find other FONeros, or promoting their own blogs when someone visits their FON access point. For Bills, a virtual piggy bank allows them to track online how many passes have been sold through their access points each day.

“As WiFi users, we thought that it would be fun to turn a router, which is a piece of equipment most people don’t pay any attention to, into a FON Social Router, a real communication tool that allows you to share and socialize at all levels,” Varsavsky says.

In addition to adding these new applications, FON has announced a strategic alliance with the Taiwanese router manufacturer Accton to manufacture and design its own line of routers called “la FONera”. This router has a sleeker design and more advanced features. “La Fonera” will be available after this summer.

FON has also reached an agreement with the router manufacturer Planex to license its software under the open source model, meaning to license its brand and technology at no cost. FON is also currently negotiating with several other hardware manufacturers for launching FON-friendly products around the world.

About FON
For more information on how to join or partner with FON, visit www.fon.com.

--
http://aspoke.com/

Blaster99

I'm gonna setup a couple of FON hotspot sites for a laugh. http://en.fon.com. Sounds like a great idea, a community-based hotspot community. Do we have any FONeros in the house?

Urban Weigl

They got 22 million from Google, Skype (eBay?) and others to subsidise wireless routers. You can get a Linksys or Buffalo router from their web site for €5 if you guarantee to leave it on for at least 12 months, so other FON members can access your network (and vice versa). The idea is to have 1 million hotspots worldwide within a year.

I just ordered mine. There's €18 shipping to Ireland, since I think they ship via UPS, so it's not free, but it's still a very good price (if you like the idea, that is).

seamus

How does it work in terms of accessing the hotspots? You have a piece of their software on your machine which searches for FON hotspots and logs you into them?

Blaster99

I'm assuming hotspot access works like any other hotspot access, eg you connect to the wireless network and you're then brought to a web site where you can buy access or login with a FON username. So if you're setup to revenue share hotspot access, anyone can access it. I can't see myself getting a lot of users on my hotspot so I'll setup myself up to receive free access in return.

seamus

Considering it myself for free access worldwide. I'm not sure how reselling my own bandwidth would affect my NTL contract anyway

It'd be handy to know that there's a good chance you might find a free legal hotspot in a residential area.

damien

I thought the Irish crowd shipped them from within Ireland to bring down costs? Hmmm.

Urban Weigl

damien.m wrote:

I thought the Irish crowd shipped them from within Ireland to bring down costs? Hmmm.

That may very well be the case (I won't know until I get mine). All I know for now is that I paid €5 for the router + €18 for shipping + VAT. The total was about €25. Still a great price for a router that usually costs almost four times as much, not to mention it is an interesting concept.

Foxwood

If I install a FONero router on my connection, would anyone connecting to it be able to see the machines on my LAN? Is there some sort of special firmware on these boxes that puts the FONero users on a seperate net from my machines on the LAN side of the router?

Blaster99

There's special firmware for sure, but whether it offers any protection and whether you trust it to do so is another story. I would plug the existing router into the FON router so the local LAN remains behind your own trusted firewall. Then you have the pain of opening up external ports as you now need to go through two NATed networks. I guess we'll figure it out when the day comes.

seamus

Foxwood wrote:

If I install a FONero router on my connection, would anyone connecting to it be able to see the machines on my LAN? Is there some sort of special firmware on these boxes that puts the FONero users on a seperate net from my machines on the LAN side of the router?

I would recommend connecting the FONero to your existing router and hiding your existing network through static routes and firewalls - essentially allowing it to tunnel through your network without seeing your network.

Urban Weigl

I can confirm that FON uses specially modified firmware, and other FON users log into the router via a web-based secure logon page. They will NOT be able to see any devices on your LAN. They will only be able to connect to the Internet.

For example, if you have a network printer, they won't be able to see it or print to it. And if you have file sharing enabled on a PC, without a password, they won't be able to see or connect to that either. Internet access only.

JohnC.

If you get several people connecting, couldn't it eat through the monthly download allowance fairly quickly?

watty

Some one persons I know of could eat serveral people's monthly download allowance in a week.

I wouldn't consider it unless on an uncapped supply. Even then you could get hit by a fair use clause.

Blaster99

It's a case of suck it and see. I can't imagine I will get a lot of users and I can't imagine most of these hotspots will. I will traffic shape or rate control the FON connection to 512/128 or something in that region to make sure it doesn't affect my own usage of the connection that much. I'm also with eircom who don't really enforce the cap so I'm not too worried. If it doesn't work out, then I'll pull the plug...

Urban Weigl

You can pull the plug after 12 months (according to the contract), if it doesn't work out (unless you pay them €45 for the cost of the router). I don't think abuse will be a problem for now, though, and I hear they're working on firmware that will block P2P, etc, to prevent people from using it for downloading.

IF, and that's a big if, it does become a widespread issue, I am certain that they will come up with updated firmware that also limits FON users bandwidth usage. E.g. if somebody connects to my hotspot, they could be limited to 300MB of usage per day, and vice versa.

subway

what about some pervert downloading kiddie porn or other filth through your network?
wouldnt you be responsible?

cgarvey

Moved IoffL>Wireless

Blaster99

Thanks for that, that has doomed the thread to obscurity. I can't really see a reason to move it in the first place, but could you not move it to the broadband forum perhaps?

subway

pm the mod of wireless

RangeR

I've been dong a lot of reading about FON today. Seems exciting. Might look into getting a Linus hotspot setup. Not really interested in making money off it,

Blaster99

TheRegister is its usual cynical self when it comes to FON. If you want to hear negative stuff about it that's a good place to look. Another thing is that I've yet to find anyone on the 'net who has written about FON other than to note that they've set it up. I'd be curious to know if anyone is getting any traffic on their hotspots or if they're experiencing problems with it from an abuse point of view.

We can all sit here and come up with reasons why it's going to fail, but I (along with many others) like the idea and I'm going to give it a shot. Because the firmware is Linux it's possible to do a lot of tweaking of it yourself, if you're in the mood. I'm sure FON don't mind contributions from the community as well. I'm guessing there is traffic shaping software for Linux already that could be made to work on a WRT54G, assuming it has the CPU power to do it. Stuff to look into if it becomes a problem. I haven't checked, but I would assume that DD-WRT (the firmware that FON uses) is supported by MRTG so it's possible to monitor the thing closely enough.

antoinolachtnai

Hi folks, I am the head fonero in Ireland, is lovely to see this thread here!

Anyway, on the firewall question: what has been said is correct, it isolates the internet traffic from your local traffic.

In the next few months we will introduce a dual-ssid firmware, which will allow you to log on to your own home network through the router.

Even with the shipping and VAT, you have to admit, the router is pretty good value! I understand that shipping costs in Europe are due to fall in the next while, although I'm not sure of the timescale yet. We would like to increase our distribution in Ireland, so if anyone has any idea on how to do this, feel free to PM me. We will have a specially made 'fonera' router. Also, if there are opportunities to put routers in commercial premises in Ireland, let me know too.

On the abuse question: we haven't had reports of this type of abuse. I suppose it is possible, but it is unlikely you will see much abuse for the following reason: it is more expensive for a heavy user to buy day passes than it would be for them to just get DSL access at home. There is also a rate limiter to limit the amount of bandwidth the user takes.

The main firmware that we use is actually based on OpenWRT rather than DD-WRT, but that is a small point.

The way it works for accessing hotspots is that it's like browsing for any other type of hotspot. You see the FON_ router in the list and connect to it. You then log on through a web page.

I am more than happy to answer any questions about FON on here, but I certainly don't mean to turn this into a sales pitch. Feel free to check out the http://www.fon.com/ site, or my blog (http://www.eire.com/) or PM me if I can help.

bushy...

How about Subways Q ?

subway wrote:

what about some pervert downloading kiddie porn or other filth through your network?
wouldnt you be responsible?

it seemed to get a bit lost when the thread was moved

bluboxthief

hi,

yeah i have a few spots running in dublin. i helped a few others set theirs up.

where are you based? what router are you using?

there are about 15-20 based in dublin that i know of. got busy over the past few months and have been kinda quiet on the fon front.

send me a pm if you'd like.

thanks
bernard

antoinolachtnai

Sorry bushy, subway, I missed the illegal downloading question.

First, this is obviously a lot more likely to happen if you leave your hotspot completely open.

Because everyone who uses FON needs a username/password, FON has records of everyone who has logged in through your router.

Blaster99

bluboxthief, what's the traffic like on the hotspots?

bushy...

Thx , tis getting more important

bluboxthief

hea

tbh, not too high.

i haven't really advertised the main one. its in the city centre, right beside a very busy hotel, with rubbish WiFi.

You probably know it

I plan to stick up my fon stickers around the area to publcise it more

antoinolachtnai

Just a follow-up on shipping costs: since last night, the shipping is now 10 euros to anywhere in europe, so you can get a FON router and become a fonero for EUR 17.40 all-in. If you think it's good value, order soon, there could be a lot of demand for routers as the summer goes on.

Antoin.

davork

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Just a follow-up on shipping costs: since last night, the shipping is now 10 euros to anywhere in europe, so you can get a FON router and become a fonero for EUR 17.40 all-in. If you think it's good value, order soon, there could be a lot of demand for routers as the summer goes on.

Antoin.

And of course another couple of euros for a convertor from that 2 pronged european plug to one that will work in Ireland...

antoinolachtnai

Um, must go and bug them about that. It's still good value though, no?

parsi

I got the new "la Fonero" and set it up this weekend and tbh its doing my head in. Is dal SSID but the private one seems to drop off the map more often than its on which is a pain (because theoretically I could use my ds-lite on this ssid and up the speed on the linksys). From the fon boards it looks like this is not an isolated issue.

Its annoying because its a nice dinky unit and a good idea. On the good side I did get a three-pin charger.

antoinolachtnai

Hi, thanks for the comments. I don't have any problems with the private ssid dropping - it's been really solid. Can you tell me a bit more about your setup? What sort of wireless is in your computer? Do you have the linksys router still running?

parsi

I have Linksys WAG54GX2 set to channel 6, the fonera is plugged into that and is currently set to channel 4. I'm using a Cisco Aironet card in the laptop (aironet 350) and scanning for available networks sometimes shows up the private ssid but not always. When the private ssid comes up I have rarely been able to connect to it - just seems to hang on connection - I have changed the encryption to wep without any benefits.

antoinolachtnai

can you try setting the channel differently on one of the APs? Channels 4 and 6 overlap. If you set the channel to 11 on one of them, for instance, it might help.

Regarding the encryption, did you try it on 'open' (I know that this is not secure, but it might be helpful to check for debugging reasons).

parsi

It dawned on me when I read your message that I had switched to channel 4 (based on a posting on the fon boards). I'm at home now and the laptop connected seamlessly to the private ssid without any config changes at all. The range is poor even though I'm only around 8 feet from the ap. My mac however can't see it all all but thats not as much of an issue ..

edit: just after I wrote this the connection dropped and is flaky again..

antoinolachtnai

are you sure the antenna is screwed tight?

I am getting good range out of the fonera, maybe a little better than the wrt54gl.

parsi

This issue has been resolved (thanks Antoin). It ultimately required a driver update for my cisco card which was happy to live with Linksys but didn't like dealing with La Fonera

The connection is now virtually rock-solid and decent range.

antoinolachtnai

If you would like a 5-euro fonera, please order it soon! The price is going to go up again next week! Then they will be around 29 euros again.

antoinolachtnai

antoinolachtnai wrote:

If you would like a 5-euro fonera, please order it soon! The price is going to go up again next week! Then they will be around 29 euros again.

Sorry to bump, but this offer really is going to end today. Register as a fonera and order a Fonera today to become part of the FON movement!

RangeR

Just hbought mine now. €17. Nice. Is 3 weeks delivery the norm?

antoinolachtnai

I have generally seen delivery time of about a week. But three weeks is what is 'guaranteed'.

RangeR

IrishTLR wrote:

Just hbought mine now. €17. Nice. Is 3 weeks delivery the norm?

Received my FON AP today. Setting it up now. Cool unit in a very small box.

RangeR

I seem to be having diffuculties with my FON. If I choose my FON_xxxx as my access point, I am not asked to log in. I have direct access to the internet. I have tried this on a few wireless devices. This should not happen????

I'm sure I have set it up wrong but need a little assitance to correct it.

*EDIT* Nevermind. I only tested two websites. The one I offer for free to my visitors and www.google.ie. I then tried other websites and it forced me to login or pay. Not sure why google worked but that doesn't bother me.

gowger

I'd like to clear a couple of fears up.

1. The FON router hotspot is implemented with a certain degree of security. It uses a seperate network, so for example you can't get to internal ip addresses so LAN windows shares are inaccessible from FON.
2. It's not a totally public open hotspot, you have to have a login which identifies you and your address seen as to get one you must order a router. So your not giving free unadulterated access to the general public.
3. I've installed one over 6 MONTHS ago and have had ZERO TRAFFIC from external users. It's going to be a good while before it's a big enough deal and known about enough for people to really be using it much. By that time there'll be a lot more hotspots to relieve the load.

The experience for me so far is merely a €5 wireless router. which is nice!

It's a great initiative and something that will might help to erode the strangle hold the big telcos have on us all!

How great it is to have free roaming internet! If this takes off it could seriously compete with the ridiculous €€€per kb of such leeching services like 3G. Lets make it happen!

They also now have a package including a wifi skype handset that doesn't need a PC. I'm tempted to get one of those to carry in the car and potentially talk to people around the world for free when I stumble on a hotspot!

Interested now? :-)

antoinolachtnai

If anyone is thinking of going unto the breach and getting a fon router, let me know, i have a small number of promotion codes for free routers (although you have to promise to keep the router running for a year). If you want a code, just send me a PM.

edanto

Just saw the announcment about this, and I'm thinking it sounds like a damn good idea.

I'm sure they've thought this through (just couldn't find much detail on fon.com), but are the risks any greater that someone could get on to your computer easier if they were sharing your WiFi than the normal risks of being on the web?

antoinolachtnai

The way it works is that the router only allows foneros to access the Internet. Any packets (the little messages that make up a connection) that are directed to reach your internal network are just dropped.

So the chances of anything happening to your home network are extremely low. Using a router with no encryption (a lot of routers are supplied like this) is more risky. The fonera setup is probably safer than using a router with WEP encryption.

If you want to access you internal network (say to share files, etc.) there is a special way of doing this (using WPA encryption, which gives a good measure of protection).

If you have sensitive stuff on your network, you might want to segregate the router to give extra protection.

We have an offer on this for boards.ie paid-up subscribers at the moment. So go on, support boards.ie and get a free Fonera wi-fi router! See

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=870

NutJob

Hate to tell you this but there's no way to implement open WIFI securely (without crypto)

http://blog.fon.com/en/archive/technology/wireless-security.html

reading between the lines says if you connect to your own network using your own wireless you are not secure.

But if ur using the cable ur isolated from the wireless wild wild west.

antoinolachtnai

That's a good link. To go into a bit more detail on it:

The way the FON router works, there are two wireless SSID's. In practice this means that there are two wireless networks on the one fonera wi-fi router. One is private and encrypted, and only the owner of the fonera can use it (it is called 'MyPlace' by default). The other is the FON network and it is the one that FON users can log on to (called FON_Hotspot by default).

If you are using the 'MyPlace' network, you are separated from the 'FON' network by the firewall.

Antoin.