Leaving Cert Art is crap!

Yufster

I wanted to go straight to university this year after the LC. I have known for a long time that I wish to study art, and the place that I wish to study it is Brighton, UK.

Sadly, my guidance councellor messed up a bit... she didn't know how to apply to English art degrees (as neither did I) and helped me to apply directly to the universities. She thought that, because the Irish leaving cert art course was more extensive than the english one (it's not), that I wouldn't even need a foundation and encouraged me to apply without one anyway, even when I discovered the truth.

After wasting all that time and money researching unis, I applied straight to Brighton College for the art Foundation course. I turned up with my Portfolio... some sketches we had done at school, and some that I had worked on at home. I also brought a few sketch books and a couple of other little things I'd made in my spare time... also my junior cert work. I had been advised to bring '12 - 15 a2 sheets filled with drawings, sketches, etc, plus sketch books'. I had more than enough.

Except I didn't! English A-level students have massive, massive, huge, portfolios! Most of them had huge oil-paintings on canvass, experiments with clothe and other materials, photography, 3D work... It severely disheartened me. I didn't get in this year, but I'll work on my portfolio throughout the year and then try again next year.

Still, it makes me realise that the Leaving Cert Art Course really is inadequate! I understand that these students have a bit more time to work on their stuff, but what we produce, and our skills on leaving, in comparison... are terrible. I'd really like to see some changes made to the leaving cert art course what do you guys think?


(Anyway if any of you are studying in Brighton this year, let me know... I'll show you around since I live here now)

NADA

That's the price we pay for having a very borad education system. I still prefer it to the English exams to be honest but I understand how you feel. It must be really S Hite!!

spinandscribble

yeah but i know ppl who got into art college aboard and they work outside the secondary school system. besides you brought jr cert art into the interview? jesus i mean unless you havnt practiced much your stuff would have improved greatly since then and if you hadnt enough work done in the last year to choose from you had no business being there in the first place. i know thats a bit harsh but it really is cut throat in art. i doubt sincerely those ppl you saw with their work presented at the interview did all that in the school class room.
but you are correct the leaving cert art is a joke but change is coming i heard but until then students of any substance who wish to stand out in interviews for places for all the right reasons must work outside the leaving cert course

Yufster

Oh absolutely. English students bring their GSCE art into the interviews too. It shows a natural progression of your work, and you're told to do it. So yes, I brought my Junior Cert work into the interview.

Also, now that I live in England I've had the chance to talk to a good few A-level art students (basically LC students) and they have done most or all of their work in the classroom.

Whereas I didn't just bring things we had done for art class, I brought a lot of my own work as well... and still did not have enough.

Shrimp

LC art is a load of gee...

Funkstard

It's a different system...I know I didn't know what I wanted to do at 16, which seems a bit ridiculous anyway, to have to narrow down your future career at such a young age. I know my brother had a whopper portfolio prepared for NCAD, the A2 folder nearly broke because of the weight before his interview (he did Industrial Design in NCAD).

The Art course we study here isn't designed to help students prepare a portfolio...it's about a broad education on the subject. It's just a different approach to the subject.

Just out of interest, why didn't you apply to NCAD, IADT or any other Irish colleges?

jools69

Yes you are correct. Leaving Cert Art is horribly inadequate and does not relate to how art & design is taught at any third level college. Students have to produe portfolios for art college outside of school or do a portfolio course afterwards because leaving cert art is not relevant to what is required for entry to colleges such as NCAD.

The vast majority of art teachers, including myself, are embarrased to teach this ridiculous syllabus which was first assembled in 1969. It makes a mockery of the subject area and of the professional qualifications of those who teach it.

GCSE and A-Level art are project based, not exam based. Art History is also a separate subject at A level. You essentially build up alot of art work throughout the duration of the course, particularly at A level, and that work in itself becomes your portfolio for college. This work is internally assessed by the art teacher and externally moderated. Simple, effective and functional.

In ireland students are forced into a ridiculous exam situation for example of making a ceramic piece in five hours which should also be fired and glazed! Students are expected to do other ridiculous things like put acetate over a soaking wet lino print before pushing it into an exam envelope, if they even get to finish. No one finishes a still-life properly because two and a half hours is not enough and then 15 minutes to produce a full figure life drawing?? Ridiculous. People need time to build up artwork and have different working styles. The exam does not reflect a student's efforts or abilities. A person who does nothing for two years can essentially get the same mark as someone who has worked really hard for two years, all depending on how it goes on the day. On top of all that three different people correct the exam so the student doesn't get a corrector who can assess their work collectively and no one person ever gives top marks. This may account for why Art has the lowest numbers of A's of all subjects.

The reason it is like this is because money will not be spent on revitalising the existing curriculm. Art is the only practical subject at LC level with no project work on its syllabus. A new art syllabus was written in recent years but has since been shelved because of apparent money shortages.

Your career teacher should have been better prepared. Most colleges have specific requirements for portfolios and their websites should state these requirements as with NCAD. It would also be a good idea to look at other portfolios by previous entrants. A good portfolio course will help you or a good art teacher who knows what's needed for entry can also guide you through the process.

This random concept that Ireland is the best at everything is not helpful to us as a nation because it is simply not true. Much of its education system is in the dark ages with chalk, talk and rote learning taking precedence. This is mainly down to an absence of financial investment as well as some closed thinking.

spinandscribble

zombie thread...

Yeah the leaving cert art isn't as good as the A level BUT neither is ANY LC subject compared to A level subjects.

You can't expect it to be. The truth is we spend significantly less time in an art room then the A level students and their course is more tailored to progression to art college in the uk.

Irish art colleges like ncad reserve 50% of their places in first year for LC students. So in ireland at least they're given an advantage.

I've known Irish leaving cert students that got into foundations in the uk straight away without extra courses but they were driven and worked conceptually as well as with traditional skill sets. Conceptual art isn't all that encouraged in the LC (by the nature of the briefs and certainly this is the attitude i came across from the couple of art teachers i knew) and a significant part of the LC is simply showing you can draw from life.

Chuchoter

I think thats a huge issue with the LC course is nothing is done in enough depth. Having exams for art and to some extent Englsih is kind of crazy, they're both subjects that require lots of time and thought, not firing stuff out in a few hours.

jools69

Yes that's true. There is huge competition to get into colleges like NACD and IADT here and they only select the best of the best portfolios. Potential students must be prepared to put a massive amount of work into a portfolio, even then it may very well not be selected. Primarily these colleges are concerned with people who can really draw and who have an enquiring minds. Still-life or observational drawing is the fundamental basis for later conceptual work. The key element here however is development. Colleges want to see research and development as well as strong skills. LC art does not allow for this. An indepth project over the course of a year or two would allow students to work obsevationally and later develop such work into more conceptual based studies directed by their strengths. Students would also take ownership of their work. This work could then be used either to contribute or the main basis of a portfolio. It would be much better for art teachers also as you would be doing interesting things with your students.

spinandscribble

jools69 wrote: »

Yes that's true. There is huge competition to get into colleges like NACD and IADT here and they only select the best of the best portfolios. Potential students must be prepared to put a massive amount of work into a portfolio, even then it may very well not be selected. Primarily these colleges are concerned with people who can really draw and who have an enquiring minds. Still-life or observational drawing is the fundamental basis for later conceptual work. The key element here however is development. Colleges want to see research and development as well as strong skills. LC art does not allow for this. An indepth project over the course of a year or two would allow students to work obsevationally and later develop such work into more conceptual based studies directed by their strengths. Students would also take ownership of their work. This work could then be used either to contribute or the main basis of a portfolio. It would be much better for art teachers also as you would be doing interesting things with your students.

Its not alway true art colleges take the best of the best always, especially colleges like NCAD that automatically offer 50% of their places to LC students when there are many more PLC students/mature students that score higher but are left on the waiting lists. the best of the best is so objective as well, especially when you see some students fail to be accepted by say LSAD/NCAD but are given top marks by DIT/CIT/GMIT. Its the same in the UK, sometimes a lot rides on who actually assessed the portfolios and their personal preference.


the truth is the majority of students in art leaving cert are there because they think its a doss. A level art students do not (bar the few exceptions), the amount of work they're expected to complete far outstrips irish students but thats simply because the students there do fewer subjects for their a levels.

A project that is 1 or two years long before the leaving cert is impossible as most of the time teachers are merely trying to increase the basic skills of the art students with the limited amount of hours art is taught in secondary schools, the vast marjory of which are uninterested/incapable of creating a body of personal work (something that could not easily fit into the schedule of over 6 leaving cert subjects).

For those students WHO DO want to go to art college/become artists, those students will work on their own work outside secondary school.

For others who wish to focus on the leaving cert AS A WHOLE and cannot dedicate themselves to creating a portfolio for LC entry, there are PLCs, which, personally, I feel is the better choice then trying to cram a portfolio into creation in 5th/6th year. that plc year gives students a taste of working day in, day out (if they attend and work as outlined by the plc) on their art work. those who continue to enjoy art and this pratice will attend art college and those who despise working at art daily will probably NOT attend art college (if they've a ounce of sense), leading to a DECREASE in art college drop outs (which is outrageously high in Ireland compared to other courses).

I do believe the leaving cert art course and the secondary school art course in general could do with a major over haul of improvements but it needs to be above all else more demanding of the students, there SHOULD be homework as it is assigned in other other subjects. The problem as I see it, is art is not like maths/sciences/business, there are no right/wrong answers, its difficult to assess. the mistake is made in treating it as less then, and that less energy is put into developing your work and achieving high marks.

I had students desiring 600 points in my art class during my own leaving cert who assured me and anyone that would listen that ART was their EASY A1, spent most of their time dossing and writing notes for other classes and occasionally lifting a paintbrush/pencil.

Needless to say, these same students realised their mistake towards the end and tried every trick in the book to pull the wool over the art examiners eyes. Of course they didn't do well in the end, thankfully and nor should they when they didn't deserve to.

At the end of the day what I desire for the irish leaving cert is a system more like the A level, where in 5th year the subjects can be narrowed down to 3/4. I think only then can art in schools really be taught in a meaningful way.... I still remember getting told off for focusing on my art work and not "the class chat" by a early secondary school art teacher, and let me tell ya, it wasn't art they were discussing..... *face palm*

qwertyu

Hey Everyone.. I am in textiles in NCAD at the moment and I am going away for summer but I will be back at the end of August and would like to do portfolio grinds from my house / go to your house even whichever suits. I live in Dublin. I am familiar with th 2012 NCAD brief now and the requirements for other colleges throughout Ireland. PM me if you think you'd be interested in some help putting together your portfolio for a good rate aswell It could work best on one evening per week or during the day on a Saturday or Sunday.


Regards

Chocolatetuna

Too many people think Art is the easy A1 subject and it annoys me and is slightly humoring to see people that are are so cocky about it receive a much lower grade than they were hoping for. I am about to sit the Art History exam on Thursday, its quite daunting as the course is pretty extensive, I think Art History should like A levels be a separate course because many students can be brought down in this section of the exam wheres in the practical side they might be incredibly talented.
I'm alaways done art as an extra subject on my own apart from this year, as I got some helop for art history,I've also done a portfolio and been provisionally accepted in IADT with the 600 points, NCAD industial design and on the waiting list for the core of NCAD.
IT INFURIATES ME when people say you can't do a portfolio in 6th year to a good standard:mad:, this is what an art teacher in my school said to me and i'm so glad I've managed to prove her wrong!:p

Wanchor

Chocolatetuna wrote: »

Too many people think Art is the easy A1 subject and it annoys me and is slightly humoring to see people that are are so cocky about it receive a much lower grade than they were hoping for. I am about to sit the Art History exam on Thursday, its quite daunting as the course is pretty extensive, I think Art History should like A levels be a separate course because many students can be brought down in this section of the exam wheres in the practical side they might be incredibly talented.
I'm alaways done art as an extra subject on my own apart from this year, as I got some helop for art history,I've also done a portfolio and been provisionally accepted in IADT with the 600 points, NCAD industial design and on the waiting list for the core of NCAD.
IT INFURIATES ME when people say you can't do a portfolio in 6th year to a good standard:mad:, this is what an art teacher in my school said to me and i'm so glad I've managed to prove her wrong!:p

I didn't do one during sixth year because it wouldn't be a reflection of my talent whatsoever. If you compare your portfolio done in sixth year to one which was done in a year without education, it would be a much higher standard because you could devote all your time to it.

sissorhands

Yufster wrote: »

I wanted to go straight to university this year after the LC. I have known for a long time that I wish to study art, and the place that I wish to study it is Brighton, UK.

Sadly, my guidance councellor messed up a bit... she didn't know how to apply to English art degrees (as neither did I) and helped me to apply directly to the universities. She thought that, because the Irish leaving cert art course was more extensive than the english one (it's not), that I wouldn't even need a foundation and encouraged me to apply without one anyway, even when I discovered the truth.

After wasting all that time and money researching unis, I applied straight to Brighton College for the art Foundation course. I turned up with my Portfolio... some sketches we had done at school, and some that I had worked on at home. I also brought a few sketch books and a couple of other little things I'd made in my spare time... also my junior cert work. I had been advised to bring '12 - 15 a2 sheets filled with drawings, sketches, etc, plus sketch books'. I had more than enough.

Except I didn't! English A-level students have massive, massive, huge, portfolios! Most of them had huge oil-paintings on canvass, experiments with clothe and other materials, photography, 3D work... It severely disheartened me. I didn't get in this year, but I'll work on my portfolio throughout the year and then try again next year.

Still, it makes me realise that the Leaving Cert Art Course really is inadequate! I understand that these students have a bit more time to work on their stuff, but what we produce, and our skills on leaving, in comparison... are terrible. I'd really like to see some changes made to the leaving cert art course what do you guys think?


(Anyway if any of you are studying in Brighton this year, let me know... I'll show you around since I live here now)

It really doesn't sound like your that committed. If you were, you would have been able to take the responsibility upon yourself to go find out exactly what you need. The LC Art course is not a portfolio course under any circumstances and that is not what is intended within it's syllabus.

My guidance councilor hadn't a notion on any of the UCAS courses for applying to Acting B.A., or even how to apply I had to take this upon myself. I also had to take it upon myself to look up what was required for the auditions and to what STANDARD I should perform at, something you seemed to have missed out on. Also, why did you only apply to one art college? That's ridiculous! I wouldn't blame the LC Art course, or your guidance councilor. So stop making excuses on why you didn't get accepted.