Spain - France

eirebhoy

fade2black wrote:

What do you use tho play that file? Divx, Real Player, Quicktime, and Windows media won't play it.

Try this codec:
http://www.on2.com/cms-data/downloads/on2_vp7_personal_edition.exe

Dustaz

PHB wrote:

Indeed it is, but when it happens to you, if you've cheated, you lose the rgith to come out and complain about it.

Henry, in his own logic, is a woman.

A woman who is in the world cup semi finals nonetheless.

If you dont like Henry, just say it. But dont fall into the trap of dressing it up as some sort of "THIS MAN IS EVIL" type crusade like the guy who wont support france unless TH is locked up and the key thrown away. I think that particular jail cell might be full to breaking point if that punishment was used.

fade2black

Sorry to be a Dill, but when I download that, is there anything else I should do or should it automatically play in all the players then?

jesus_thats_gre

eirebhoy wrote:

I can't stand Henry so won't argue with the first bit but it was definitely a foul. From one angle it looks like Henry just barges into him but it was definitely Puyol who did it.

The first angle here is the clearest:
http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=other&file=Puyol_Yellow_Henry_Fakes_Injury.zip

Agreed. It was defo a foul.

Typically, it is the same peolpe here doing the same moaning that they do on other threads. Might as well throw in a comment about Henry not doing it in big matches. You are right lads, he is ****e, has no talent and everything he does well stems from cheating.

France were the better team on the night and I was very confident they would be able to beat Spain. France have the individuals to go all the way but have the problem of being unable to play as a team for long periods of time it seems. If they can keep it tight and play to their potential for two or three 5 minutes periods throughout any match, they will win.

TheMonster

Dustaz wrote:

A woman who is in the world cup semi finals nonetheless.

If you dont like Henry, just say it. But dont fall into the trap of dressing it up as some sort of "THIS MAN IS EVIL" type crusade like the guy who wont support france unless TH is locked up and the key thrown away. I think that particular jail cell might be full to breaking point if that punishment was used.

answer one question - why was he holding his face.

Most peoples problem with Henry last night is that he pretends he is above all the cheating.

PHB

Indeed Dustaz, he is, it's part of the game, I just can't stand people who preach one thing and then do another, it's just laughable.

dohboy

As it happened, it definately looked like a foul, and that's what the ref saw. No point in poring over super slow motion replays. Overall I thought the ref was decent.

Henry wouldn't normally be someone you would associate with cheating, but i think in the heat of a World Cup, he decided to resort to some gamesmanship.

His silly fit of pique/sour grapes after the Champs League was always going to come back and bite him in the ass. If he'd stayed quiet then, and not presented himself as some 'holier than thou' footballer, this debate wouldn't be happening.

MisterAnarchy

Dustaz wrote:

A woman who is in the world cup semi finals nonetheless.

Steady on ,they must beat Brazil first to get to the Semi's

shatners basoon

I thought it was definately a foul, but the theatrics were utterly uncalled for. Think it all stems back to the Champions League match as of why he did it, he's not usually a face grabber kinda diver but i'd say he just did it as it was Puyol. So i'd label more as irony rather than hypocracy.
France were worthy winners anyways and the Quarter final should make for a good one.

Pepe LeFrits

Well, Henry was clearly only clutching his face because he was so horrified that the slap of Puyol's greasy mop across his Nike-endorsing gallic face would leave him scarred, or worse, spotty. He just needed time to wipe it all off.

Dissappointing, but as he doesn't do it ordinarily I'll put it down to it either being because it was Puyol (history...) or because at the other end Torres was going down every time anyone strayed within 10 yards of him.

Stupid Spain, ruining my bet.

Guy:Incognito

eirebhoy wrote:

At first I thought it was a red card. OK, Henry overreacted by grabbing his face but there's absolutely no doubt that it was a foul. You can't take an opposing player out off the ball.

What about the numerous inceidents in every game where the defender holds off the attacker to let the ball go out? They're not in control of the ball as they havnt touched it so at the very least it's obstruction/.

Roddy23 wrote:

but Henry might have exageratted it .

exaggerated my arse, he made it up. Puyol's arm made contact on his chest, just above his nipples (ish). He went down holding his face. Exaggerated would have been to hold his chest like he was having a heart attack, this was pure cheating.


The reason there is such uproar is because it is Henry, the man who presents himself as whiter than white. Someone who doesnt cheat. at least drogba didnt whinge about everyone else cheating then did it himself. Henry is a hypocrite. Then he compounds it by sayign again he didnt take a dive.

herbieflowers

I'm just curious as to why everyone is so suprised about Henry. Remember the sour grapes after the CL final v Barca? It was simply doing whatever it took to gain an advantage ie cheating

ErinGoBrath

herbieflowers wrote:

I'm just curious as to why everyone is so suprised about Henry.

Because it not in his nature and he's not known as a cheat.

Remember the sour grapes after the CL final v Barca?

If you just lost the Champions League final after being one up for 75 minutes you'd be a little sour too :rolleyes:

kinaldo

A few thoughts on last nights game...

Absolutely gutted. I've never been a fan of Aragones and last night he showed why. He played a crazy suicidal 4-3-3 formation with not even a hint of width when France's greatest strenght is down the middle, showed no respect to France, and when it was 1-1 decided to use up all his substitutions - most bizarrely taking off Xavi for Senna. I've said all along he doens't have a clue what his best eleven is (although tbf not many do) but he compounded that matter by messing up their shape. Once Spain took the lead they should have at least sat back a bit. France hate playing against teams that sit back that's why they draw so many games but as I said he showed France no respect whatsoever before or during the game. Instead they played Russian roulette with the offside trap and were duly punished. Another wasted opportunity for a brilliant young Spanish team. At least Aragones has done the decent thing and resigned.

As for Thierry Henry...

Last night I lost all respect for him. He blatantly tried to get Puyol (by chance a Barca player) sent off and cheat the Spanish out of the World Cup. His comments after the game on the face clutching incident were a further insult to everyone who condones fair play. For all the good he's brought to the game nothing will ever erase the image in my mind of him trying to cheat the consummate proffesional that is Puyol out of a game of such magnitude. To resort to such antics is quite despicable imo. The thing that's so so disappointing is I always thought Henry was above such behaviour, behaviour frequently practised by many of his lesser peers. Hopefully karma will work it's magic and Henry will receive his comeuppance. I was disappointed when Ronaldinho was given the World Player of the Year award ahead of Henry two years ago, but now I'm glad. Henry is a disgrace to the name sport and yes I am bitter.

Guy:Incognito

ErinGoBrath wrote:

Because it not in his nature and he's not known as a cheat.

Yeah, he goes to great lenghts to condemn others and let everyone know what a stand up guy he is. Then he does that and continues to deny he took a dive.

What a guy.:rolleyes:

Lemlin

PHB wrote:

Even if it was a foul, the problem with Henry was that he went down holding his face, when he clearly wasn't.
Henry is a complete hypocrite, and everybody knows it. What team you support will determine whether or not you accept it

Indeed it will. It appears that the United fans like yourself are only too happy to get their knives out alright. I respect players like Henry and Ronaldinho because they play fair. If you want to go around calling Henry a cheat, go watch some United games and have a look at Cristiano Ronaldo.

Or remember that Jaap Stam wrote in his book that he and the United players were told to dive by Alex Ferguson. Would you call SAF a hypocrite as easily? I've often seen him complaining when players dive against United yet he told his own team to dive.

I'm not just picking on United either. I'll fully admit Robbie Savage acts the prick at Blackburn and Liverpool supporters should remember Stevie Gerrard who condemned diving only to pull of a few blatant dives himself. It happens at every club, Henry is one of the more honest players though.

unkel

Enjoyed the game and was pleasantly surprised by the strength of the French (against my expectations - but then again Spain had not impressed me at all so far). Obviously the 'oul fellas can still do it! Comprehensive win imho

As for the other discussion about theatrical behaviour - some mediterranean countries should get the world cup for that alone :rolleyes:

On that note, Portugal has already won the WC '06

I know it is another threads' worth, but please can we get an overruling know all uber ref equipped with all mod vid cons?

That english dude was just hilarious. The russian one was a disgrace. The ref in Spain-France was in control of the game. Even his body language showed it

el rabitos

puyol definitely fouled him, but henry should have had his a$$ sent off for that crap.

he's always been a player i've liked, always came across as a fair player, but he showed he's full of crap now.

though i dont think ur ever gonna stop players diving, its almost an art at this stage, and its built into players minds to always try and win penalties and free kicks in dangerous areas.

PHB

It happens at every club, Henry is one of the more honest players though.

See thats the thing, the difference between Fergie and Henry. Everybody knows Fergie will do anything to win, and is perfectly happy to say dive when in Europe (although he has stamped that out lately). Henry on the other hand, while he used to be admired by many, including me, and I'm sure most of the people here who are now criticising him, due to him just being a guy who plays beautiful fair football, now he goes and does something like this, clutching his face for absolutely no reason.

And btw, why would he do this? It wasn't just to get a foul, it was an attempt to get another player red carded unjustly. He is no longer the fair player that he used to be, and the fact that he is a hypocrite just makes it laughable. At least Drogba has the balls to say what he means.

Attractive Nun

PHB wrote:

And btw, why would he do this? It wasn't just to get a foul, it was an attempt to get another player red carded unjustly. He is no longer the fair player that he used to be

In his defense, I think he really hates Puyol, so maybe this was just a once off

BaZmO*

Stekelly wrote:

What about the numerous inceidents in every game where the defender holds off the attacker to let the ball go out? They're not in control of the ball as they havnt touched it so at the very least it's obstruction

That's one thing in football that annoys the hell out of me. But I suppose it's one of those double standards that's in football. Just like a forward will always get penalised for pulling a defender's jersey in the penalty box at a corner or a freekick but a defender very rarely gets penalised for doing likewise.

Regarding the Henry issue, I think he was right to go down because if Puyol was silly enough to obstruct him well then Henry is well within his rights to gain advantage by going down but it's the fact that he held his face that annoys everybody so much. I think even Henry is embarrassed with his actions tbh. I reckon he's lost a lot fans with his actions. I remember when we were playing France in Paris in the qualifiers and Pires just through himself to the ground when JOSH was beside him just outside the penalty box and thereby winning a free for the France, oh how my blood boiled.

Gaining advantage is one thing, but making up an injury is a whole different ball game.

herbieflowers

ErinGoBrath wrote:

If you just lost the Champions League final after being one up for 75 minutes you'd be a little sour too :rolleyes:

Heh, but I thought Henry was the "model pro"?! It takes a true professional to accept defeat, football goes against you sometimes, but for every time it does, you must be aware that the same amount of good fortune comes your way too. (except if you support say, Lincoln!)

herbieflowers

BaZmO* wrote:

Gaining advantage is one thing, but making up an injury is a whole different ball game.

I don't know, I mean gaining advantage suggests fair play while feigning injury is pure cheating, is it not?

BaZmO*

herbieflowers wrote:

I don't know, I mean gaining advantage suggests fair play while feigning injury is pure cheating, is it not?

Did you even read my post?

herbieflowers

Yeah I did, and I don't think Puyol was necessarily obstructing Henry, he got to the ball before Henry and has his body between man and ball, how is Henry's gonig down "gaining an advantage" when clearly, Puyol was the one closest to the ball?

BaZmO*

Well in my post I said, that in my opinion, Puyol deliberately obstructed Henry, which is against the rules. Therefore Henry went down to gain the advantage of a free kick.
Where I, and everybody else for that matter, have a problem, is with the fact that he unnecessarily held his face. The free kick was justified and tbh I don't think it would be an issue if he hadn't of held his face when he went down.

herbieflowers

BaZmO* wrote:

Well in my post I said, that in my opinion, Puyol deliberately obstructed Henry, which is against the rules. Therefore Henry went down to gain the advantage of a free kick.
Where I, and everybody else for that matter, have a problem, is with the fact that he unnecessarily held his face. The free kick was justified and tbh I don't think it would be an issue if he hadn't of held his face when he went down.

Yup that's a fair point, sorry for the misunderstanding!


I still stick by my last point, puyol used his body and got to the ball before Henry. But that's just my take on it...

astrofool

Free kick or not, and lets be serious, it's always 50/50 for that type of challegne, the chances of it being awarded must have been severely heightened by Henry going down clutching his face. It must be assumed that the ref saw that, and in awarding the free kick, believed that Puyol had knocked him in the face illegally, and affected him in awarding the free. Had he believed Henry was simulating, then Henry would have got a yellow for simulation.

Dustaz

So pre-meditated cheating is allright (well, we know it is already seeing as Saint Roy gets away with it) but a once off heat of the moment isnt.

Ok, got it.

eirebhoy

astrofool wrote:

Free kick or not, and lets be serious, it's always 50/50 for that type of challegne

It's far from 50/50. It was a foul by Puyol and I'd be very suprised if it wasn't given no matter how Henry reacted. Most players just stop in their tracks and the whistle gets blown.

astrofool

Dustaz wrote:

So pre-meditated cheating is allright (well, we know it is already seeing as Saint Roy gets away with it) but a once off heat of the moment isnt.

Ok, got it.

Look at it this way, Rivaldo will always be remembered for his theatrics against Turkey, sometimes more than his player of the year award.

Henry doesn't even have such an award, so guess what he'll get remembered by? (apart from Arsenal fans of course)

Lemlin

PHB wrote:

See thats the thing, the difference between Fergie and Henry. Everybody knows Fergie will do anything to win, and is perfectly happy to say dive when in Europe (although he has stamped that out lately). Henry on the other hand, while he used to be admired by many, including me, and I'm sure most of the people here who are now criticising him, due to him just being a guy who plays beautiful fair football, now he goes and does something like this, clutching his face for absolutely no reason.

And btw, why would he do this? It wasn't just to get a foul, it was an attempt to get another player red carded unjustly. He is no longer the fair player that he used to be, and the fact that he is a hypocrite just makes it laughable. At least Drogba has the balls to say what he means.

Oh right, where did Fergie come out and say he had told his players to dive? I don't remember hearng him saying it. I remember Jaap Stam writing that Fergie said it and being promptly ushered out of Old Trafford. Can you provide a link for where Ferguson openly came out and admitted he had told his team to dive?

Dustaz

astrofool wrote:

Look at it this way, Rivaldo will always be remembered for his theatrics against Turkey, sometimes more than his player of the year award.

Henry doesn't even have such an award, so guess what he'll get remembered by? (apart from Arsenal fans of course)

Not quite. Ill always remember the Isralie goalie for his theatrics because i know sod all else about him. I remember Rivaldo for the player of the year type performances for club and country as well as the theatrics. Subtle difference.

As loathe as i am to mention the name twice in the same thread for fear of derailment, its like Keane. Is he remembered solely for a premeditated assault on a fellow professional? Is he remembered for solely for walking out/leaving/being sent home (not even going there) on the eve of a world cup?

astrofool

Dustaz wrote:

As loathe as i am to mention the name twice in the same thread for fear of derailment, its like Keane. Is he remembered solely for a premeditated assault on a fellow professional? Is he remembered for solely for walking out/leaving/being sent home (not even going there) on the eve of a world cup?

It probably depends on whether you're a Man Utd supporter or not

samb

ye Henry dissaponted me greatly with his antics. I am generally a big fan of his as he plays beautiful football and fairly. I hope this was a once off and that he regrets it-I would like to think the best of him because he's not you average braindead footballer.
I've never seen him dive or fake injury before

kinaldo

For those of us that were sad to see the end of Spain's World Cup campaign here's a great article written by Phil Ball, Soccernet's excellent Spanish football correspondent.

Spain to win the European Championships in 2 years.

One of the brightest, youngest most exciting Spanish national team in years.

kinaldo

kinaldo wrote:

At least Aragones has done the decent thing and resigned.

Cheeky fcuker has changed his mind and signed a 2 year contract extension. I had thought the Spanish would be less forgiving.

Lemlin

kinaldo wrote:

Cheeky fcuker has changed his mind and signed a 2 year contract extension. I had thought the Spanish would be less forgiving.

Spain are usually happy to get out of the groups. For such a big footballing nation, they really are terrible at tournaments.

Pepe LeFrits

Aragones has done a good job imo, they were right to keep him on.