EU to call country 'Éire Ireland'

flogen

I would correct people who said "Southern Ireland" to me; I understand that it's probably an innocent mistake (after all, the other chunk is Northern Ireland), but still...

And yeah, pointless calling Ireland Éire unless you're using the word in an Irish sentence; to use an example earlier you would say "They play football in Germany" or "Spielen sie Fussball in Deutschland" or whatever it is... but not "they play football in Deutschland" or "Spielen sie Fussball in Germany"

LovelyHurling

mike65 wrote:

"Look old bean if the bog trotters of the er Dial thingy wish you be known as
Eire so be it! Its nice the Free State government has come up with such an innovative employment scheme.

That an actual quote then? How is calling the Republic of Ireland 'Eire' an insult? It wasnt Churchills decision, and the King of England didnt design it, DeValera did. So when British people refer to Ireland in the native language of its people as set out in its constitution, it is seen as a bad thing? It is better to prefer to the country in the language that you might otherwise argue was 'imposed'?

Please.

From the consitution of 'The Republic of Ireland', then:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,

We, the people of Éire...

Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution.

and most importantly:

Article 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

oscarBravo

LovelyHurling wrote:

...and most importantly:

Article 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

Exactly. The name of the state, in the English language, is Ireland. To refer to it, in the English language, as "Éire" is incorrect.

mike65

I blame the stamps myself.

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

To really confuse people who call the Republic of Ireland 'Southern Ireland', ask them ' Where is the most nothern part of Ireland?' Is it in a) Nothern Ireland or b)Southern Ireland.

Dyr

lostexpectation wrote:

you should have gently corrected her, she would have thanked you later for it

Nah, I think most British people use the term Éire because they think Ireland refers to the whole island including the six counties and therefore they should use Éire when referring to the "South", They're probably trying to be respectful lol. That and the fact that British soccer pundits call us Éire means there's no point in arguing :rolleyes:

monument

No, Mike got it right with stamps.

LovelyHurling

oscarBravo wrote:

The name of the state, in the English language, is Ireland. To refer to it, in the English language, as "Éire" is incorrect.

You should have been around to correct DeValera when he referred to "we, the people of Eire" then.

And Im not trying to be pedantic, but the name od the state is not Ireland. Ireland is an island and Dublin is the capital of the Republic of Ireland/ Southern Ireland/ Eire

they think Ireland refers to the whole island including the six counties

It does. Common speech just refers to the south as 'Ireland'

oscarBravo

LovelyHurling wrote:

Someone should have told DeValera that when he referred to the people of Eire then.

I'm sure they should have. Do you unreservedly accept everything DeValera ever said as gospel?

LovelyHurling wrote:

And Im not trying to be pedantic, but the name od the state is not Ireland. Ireland is an island and Dublin is the capital of the Republic of Ireland/ Southern Ireland/ Eire.

I am being pedantic, and the name of the state is Ireland, as clearly stated in both the Irish and English versions of the constitution. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to choose an authoritative definition, I'll choose the state's constitution over a putative throwaway remark by a late statesman.

Ireland is the name of the state, and Ireland is the name of the island of which it comprises a part. "The Republic of Ireland" is a descriptive term. "Southern Ireland" is, at best, a vague geographic reference to Munster and south Leinster. "Éire" (complete with fada) is the name of the state in the Irish language.

Dyr

LovelyHurling wrote:

And Im not trying to be pedantic, but the name od the state is not Ireland. Ireland is an island and Dublin is the capital of the Republic of Ireland/ Southern Ireland/ Eire

*rev's up the constitution*

Article 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

oscarBravo

More to the point, the Irish version - which is the authoritative version - is clearer: "Éire is ainm don stáit, nó, sa Sacs-Bhéarla, Ireland." (I'm quoting from memory, as I can't find an Irish-language version online.)

CiaranC

What kind of a country has people in it that dont even know whats its called? Good grief.

tba

I prefer the name

"That rainy country at the top left of Europe, then one that Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman came from. Come on you know the one I mean."

Its more subtle

simu

From the article linked to in the opening post:

The Éire Ireland name change will apply to signage and name plates at Council of Minister meetings and leaders’ summits from January 2007.

So, it'll be on the signage. They're not going to start saying Éire-Ireland instead of Ireland or whatever. Not that crazeh really!

CiaranC wrote:

What kind of a country has people in it that dont even know whats its called? Good grief.

Why be straight-forward when you can cloak people in a mist of confusion? Tis the Éireannach-Irish way!

LovelyHurling

Ireland is the name of the state, and Ireland is the name of the island of which it comprises a part. "The Republic of Ireland" is a descriptive term. "Southern Ireland" is, at best, a vague geographic reference to Munster and south Leinster. "Éire" (complete with fada) is the name of the state in the Irish language.

Argue about it all you want its not particularly interesting. I presume from your pontifications (couldnt resist:) ) that you refer to Northern Ireland as Longford/ fermanagh/ Louth/ Meath then yes? Theres an Northern Ireland and a Republic of Ireland, two different states sharing a stretch of land called Ireland.

darkman2

I dont like the term 'Eire' being used as it does be by the British imparticular and the beeb often say 'Irish Republic' (thats also NOT correct). The name of this country in English is the 'Republic of Ireland' and I do correct sometimes particularly English ppl using 'Eire' because as has been mentioned they cant bare seeing us being refered to as a 'Republic' or else their just to bloody lazy to. It is condescending when used by the English media.

zuma

LovelyHurling wrote:

Theres an Northern Ireland and a Republic of Ireland, two different states sharing a stretch of land called Ireland.

When I did Geography years ago I learned that the two states that share this island are Ireland and the UK.
Nothern Ireland is not a state like Ireland...but merely a division of the state known as the United Kingdom.

oscarBravo

LovelyHurling wrote:

Argue about it all you want its not particularly interesting.

I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying. You seemed to find it interesting enough when you thought you were right.

LovelyHurling wrote:

I presume from your pontifications (couldnt resist:) ) that you refer to Northern Ireland as Longford/ fermanagh/ Louth/ Meath then yes?

No. Northern Ireland refers to a province of the United Kingdom on the island of Ireland.

LovelyHurling wrote:

Theres an Northern Ireland and a Republic of Ireland, two different states sharing a stretch of land called Ireland.

There's a province called Northern Ireland and a state called Ireland sharing an island called Ireland.

It's really not as confusing as you'd like to make it out to be. It's no more confusing than there being both a town and a county called Longford (ZOMG how will people evar figure out where they live!!1), or two states of the USA called, respectively, Virginia and West Virginia.

darkman2 wrote:

The name of this country in English is the 'Republic of Ireland'...

No, the name of this country is English is 'Ireland', as clearly spelled out in both the Irish and the English versions of the constitution, and as repeatedly pointed out on this very thread.

djmarkus

how many times does this discusson come up on boards.

The Republic of Ireland (Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the official description[1] of the sovereign state which covers approximately five-sixths of the island of Ireland, off the coast of north-west Europe. The state's official name is Ireland (Irish: Éire)[2], and this is how international organisations and citizens of Ireland usually refer to the country

If Northern Ireland isn't a country then why does it have its own football team?

MrJones

Yes this should set us apart. Lets face it,thousands have died for the cause of us Irish people having an independent country, so let's hope having Eire Ireland adds to our national (and international ) identity.
Éire abu!
p.s. i cringe when i hear people referring to ireland as southern ireland.

esperanza wrote:

people 'over the water' who have a very distorted view of our country, don't you think? (I won't even go into some continental Europeaners who still think we belong to the Brits! -- maybe our official bilingual name will raise some eyebrows in a good sense...

PHB

Not that it matters of course as it has to be done.

It's not actually done for most of Irish law, but is forced for most European law, it's quite amusing actually, it's just a show, and anyone who actually reads law knows this, but nobody cares enough, it's just giving people who speak Irish a job.

Dub13

djmarkus wrote:

If Northern Ireland isn't a country then why does it have its own football team?

Northern Ireland isn't a country it is a Constituent country

darkman2

oscarBravo wrote:

I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying. You seemed to find it interesting enough when you thought you were right. No. Northern Ireland refers to a province of the United Kingdom on the island of Ireland. There's a province called Northern Ireland and a state called Ireland sharing an island called Ireland.

It's really not as confusing as you'd like to make it out to be. It's no more confusing than there being both a town and a county called Longford (ZOMG how will people evar figure out where they live!!1), or two states of the USA called, respectively, Virginia and West Virginia. No, the name of this country is English is 'Ireland', as clearly spelled out in both the Irish and the English versions of the constitution, and as repeatedly pointed out on this very thread.

The correct name of this country is the 'Republic of Ireland'.......

sceptre

darkman2 wrote:

The correct name of this country is the 'Republic of Ireland'.......

Good lord, this horsepoo is going to go on forever.

Here's a mod ruling which happens by the way to be correct but I'd rather this silly side issue didn't go on forever.

When using the English language the official name of the State is "Ireland".

When using the Irish language the official name of the State is "Éire". The French and others have a nice simple system where they don't put accents on capitalised letters by the way.

The description of the State is "Republic Of Ireland". It's also in common practice by people to refer to the actual State and is the name used by a number of sporting teams that represent the State.

References are Bunreacht na hÉireann article 4 and the Republic Of Ireland Act 1948 section 2.

Call the state "wibbles" or "leprechaunland" if you like but that's the legal situation and anyone who persists in saying anything else at this point clearly can't read.

Any views on the topic as started could well be welcome.

darkman2

sceptre wrote:

Good lord, this horsepoo is going to go on forever.

Here's a mod ruling which happens by the way to be correct but I'd rather this silly side issue didn't go on forever.

When using the English language the official name of the State is "Ireland".

When using the Irish language the official name of the State is "Éire". The French and others have a nice simple system where they don't put accents on capitalised letters by the way.

The description of the State is "Republic Of Ireland". It's also in common practice by people to refer to the actual State and is the name used by a number of sporting teams that represent the State.

References are Bunreacht na hÉireann article 4 and the Republic Of Ireland Act 1948 section 2.

Call the state "wibbles" or "leprechaunland" if you like but that's the legal situation and anyone who persists in saying anything else at this point clearly can't read.

Any views on the topic as started could well be welcome.

The point being Ireland is a Republic and therefore the use of the term 'ROI' is entirely legitimate and correct.

zuma

darkman2 wrote:

The point being Ireland is a Republic and therefore the use of the term 'ROI' is entirely legitimate and correct.

The Republic of France/Republic of Italy as well as the Federal Republic of Germany are referred to simply as France/Italy and Germany....why shouldnt Ireland have the same rights?

zuma

djmarkus wrote:

how many times does this discusson come up on boards.



If Northern Ireland isn't a country then why does it have its own football team?

Haha!

If Northern Ireland was a country then it would have a seat in the UN/EU or any other INTERNATIONAL body....but it doesnt!
Northern Ireland has its own football team because of historical differences between regions of the UK....ie English/Scottish/Welsh pride!

LovelyHurling

Well if people want to argue that the text of the constitution is wrong and they are right (re: we the people of Eire) then go on and massage your ownegos.

The Republic of Ireland may have one consititutional intention but in everyday life it has lots of names: Republic of Ireland, Southern Ireland, Eire, whatever. Any sour faces are just people being too sensitive. How on earth can you take offense at it?

Novody gets upset when Britain is referred to under its many names, who cares?

And Northern Ireland have our own football team because all of the home nations do.

mike65

Frankly you have it easy! I've heard people say Britain when they meant United Kingdom, UK when they meant Britain, England when they meant Britain or United Kingdom (the Irish do the latter a lot), the mainland when they meant er...we won't go there!

Mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

and that is just from the people in Britain (or should that be the UK)