EU to call country 'Éire Ireland'

zuma

LovelyHurling wrote:

And Northern Ireland have our own football team because all of the home nations do.

Care to explain why they are allowed such?

Ah the U.K. is such a contradiction.....its one of the most disUnited countries in Europe!

darkman2

The point of putting the 'Republic' in front of Ireland is to differentiate us as a sovereign entity from the UK. Many ppl in the UK actually think 'Ireland' is in the UK beleive it or not. When you put 'Republic' in front of it they know or remember straight away its not. I dunno I suppose its a pride thing:rolleyes:

esperanza

The UK have it tough alright. Many French and Germans certainly use the term "England" when meaning the UK as a whole, and some of the dimmer ones even think Ireland is part of "England"! I've had some French people saying to me in the past "It rains a lot in England, doesn't it?", knowing very well I am from Ireland. I would say a good number of Germans are oblivious to the fact we are an independent state.(I've had to give geography and history lessons to some students). I suppose you can't really blame Joe Soap for his confusing the countries, as media portrayal has a lot to do with it. On German TV, for example, even on news and documentaries from well-respected channels, you will hear the term "England" being used to designate the United Kingdom.

In "Die Zeit" newspaper once, Oscar Wilde was referred to as being English!
I nearly choked on seeing this! Then my German flatmate asked me when was he born, and lo and behold he was born before Ireland became a free state. But does that officially make him English. Surely, in English speaking publications on these islands, he is always referred to as Irish?

I vote that we should set up a website clearing up all the confusion and educate all those morons who get the terms confused. As well as writing directly to the guilty TV stations/newspapers.

I think foreigners (on mainland Europe, in any case) misuse the terms out of laziness to understand the history of those islands off the west of Europe (was going to say British Isles there for a minute, but that would be seriously politically incorrect!)

mike65

If born in Ireland before 1937 you could be classified as British but never English. England is not a legal nation state, you won't find it at the UN or EU with a name plate on a desk!

Mike.

Dyr

mike65 wrote:

If born in Ireland before 1937 you could be classified as British but never English. England is not a legal nation state, you won't find it at the UN or EU with a name plate on a desk!

Mike.

could they be referred to as british? Never knew tha. Is it the same dea thatl 6 county types get now? I remember back in the mid 90s on some cross border course this protestant community worker type told those from a loyalist background that they werent actually british but were regarded as being of british origin

I reckon United-Kingdomish is the best term to use :eek:

LovelyHurling

zuma wrote:

Care to explain why they are allowed such?

Allowed? Its a game of football! All of the home nations have our own teams, because we have such unique historical and social geneses I suppose. Anyway its good for the game in the UK if nothing else.

LovelyHurling

esperanza wrote:

I think foreigners (on mainland Europe, in any case) misuse the terms out of laziness to understand the history of those islands off the west of Europe (was going to say British Isles there for a minute, but that would be seriously politically incorrect!)

Its not really laziness, theyre probably just too sensible to get caught up in all of those technicalities and qualifying every reference to the British Isles with its constitutional title in Irish or English etc.
The British Isles is an interesting one because its not a political reference at all. Its a geographical term for the islands of Ireland, Great Britain, Isles of Man and White and the Channel Islands etc. Its correct to deny being a constituent of the UK obviously, but it always baffles me when people here claim not to live on this cluster of islands:D

mr_angry

Does anyone ever wonder why we went to the trouble of inventing so many different names for places? Obviously the Germans refer to Germany as "Deutschland"... who decided to make a completely different phoenetically different way of identifying it?

In the same way... Eire / Ireland. Its all just a means to describe this location.

sceptre

mr_angry wrote:

Does anyone ever wonder why we went to the trouble of inventing so many different names for places? Obviously the Germans refer to Germany as "Deutschland"... who decided to make a completely different phoenetically different way of identifying it?

"And that place over there, what do you call it?"

"Oh, that's Piddleland"

"Ah, the locals call it doopieville"

"Yeah, well we discovered it and we called it Piddleland"

"Weren't they there first?"

"Yeah but they speak doopie, that's a completely different language to ours. We've always called them the piddles since before we knew they called themselves the doops. Heck, we've called them the piddles since before they got together as one bigass tribe of doops. They should really get with the times"

"Shouldn't you get with the times?"

"Look, it's Piddleland, sod off. They call our land Snorktown when everyone knows it's called Smurfton. When they beat us at cricket we Snorks send in a gunboat. We're not going to write 'Smurfs' on it for their benefit, we've more than one linguistic group to occasionally repress."

mr_angry wrote:

In the same way... Eire / Ireland. Its all just a means to describe this location.

Find it on a map and you're probably not George Bush. It's a little more than just giving it a name that others can find on the map, mind you, it's also the political equivalent of wandering around the corners of the garden with one leg cocked and urine streaming from your peepee.

oscarBravo

If there's one thing I like better than Sceptre, it's Sceptre with drink taken.

sceptre

I can't use that as an excuse even for the final paragraph I'm afraid.

Alun

esperanza wrote:

The UK have it tough alright. Many French and Germans certainly use the term "England" when meaning the UK as a whole, ...

Not to mention many Irish people as well! It almost seem as if when anyone wants to make any kind of positive comment about the UK it's "British", but if it has any negative connotations, it's "English", as in that mythical beast the "English Army".

ScottishDanny

Care to explain why they are allowed such?

Historically the English FA were the first FA in the world. Then the Scottish FA was founded and so on. The first international match was played between Scotland and England in 1872 (I think) 0-0. This was way before FIFA and UEFA. When Ireland was partitioned, the IFA split happened almost immediately and the FAI represented the free state. If you are from the UK you cannot play for any one of the 4 home nations by choice unless you were born there or have a parent or grandparent from there 'the Granny Rule'.

Dub13

ScottishDanny wrote:

If you are from the UK you cannot play for any one of the 4 home nations by choice unless you were born there or have a parent or grandparent from there 'the Granny Rule'.

Something I never taught about is how do you prove you are Scottish if there is no such thing as a Scottish passport....?

ISAW

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Whatever happened to 'Republic of Ireland'? Are we afraid to indicate that we are a Republic?

It isnt in the constitution! The Republic was created by Law. And the Republic refers to the 26 counties. The State or nation refers to the 32 counties. Since the articles 2 and 3 change the state doe snot claim juristiction over the 6 counties but it still accepts the 6 counties as part of the State/nation.

ISAW

Alun wrote:

Not to mention many Irish people as well! It almost seem as if when anyone wants to make any kind of positive comment about the UK it's "British", but if it has any negative connotations, it's "English", as in that mythical beast the "English Army".

An army that in 1700 was 48 per cent Irish!

A Dub in Glasgo

Dub13 wrote:

Something I never taught about is how do you prove you are Scottish if there is no such thing as a Scottish passport....?

Something which FIFA (or was it UEFA) failed to think about when they decreed that players in NI with Irish passports would not be able to declare for NI.

A Dub in Glasgo

ISAW wrote:

It isnt in the constitution! The Republic was created by Law. And the Republic refers to the 26 counties. The State or nation refers to the 32 counties. Since the articles 2 and 3 change the state doe snot claim juristiction over the 6 counties but it still accepts the 6 counties as part of the State/nation.

In which case the Republic of Ireland is a more accurate description for the political entity that is represented at the EU.

ISAW

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

In which case the Republic of Ireland is a more accurate description for the political entity that is represented at the EU.

Yes but it still isnt the description of Ireland which is entertained by ireland's constitution. It is not the place for the EU to tell any member what their constitution should say except where that perogative exists under secondary law enacted by that constitution. the name of the state may be acceptable. Its potential justitiction isnt!

ScottishDanny

Something I never taught about is how do you prove you are Scottish if there is no such thing as a Scottish passport....?

Er...Birth Certificate?

LordSutch

I just wish somebody would translate "Gaelic Football" into Irish.............!
I am sick and tired of all the confusion in the irish media between the terms Football/ Soccer/ Gaelic Football/ Footie, etc, its been quite funny during this World Cup season specially on RTE as every an interview starts with an introduction to todays "World Cup Soccer" only to be followed by the interviewee talking about FOOTBALL then the "Irish" interviewer says soccer again and the footballer mentions in his reply about the Football (again):D

Great fun indeed (not) so lets all grow up, and call the beautiful Game "Football" if only for the World Cup season, and can somebody please find a translation for (Gaelic Football) before the next World Cup ........................

Surely someone can translate the Gaelic Game into Irish???

oscarBravo

It's called "peil" in Irish. The confusion could be avoided completely if people would only refer to That Foreign Game by its correct name of Association Football. That would clear it up nicely.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

mike65

Because its called Football not soccer.

Mike.

complicit

mike65 wrote:

I blame the stamps myself.

Mike.

what he said

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

oscarBravo

Back on topic, y'all (and yes, that's aimed squarely at myself too).

Edit: seeing as I was obviously talking only to myself, off-topic stuff from this point on moved to the bin.

The Corinthian

zuma wrote:

The Republic of France/Republic of Italy as well as the Federal Republic of Germany are referred to simply as France/Italy and Germany....why shouldnt Ireland have the same rights?

So as to avoid ambiguity; after all Germany was referred to in terms of both east and west up until reunification, as Korea still is referred to in terms of north and south.

On a related note, the correct name for the Republic of France is the République française (French Republic)and the Republic of Italy is the Repubblica Italiana (Italian Republic).

So, why is the Republic of Ireland not called the Irish Republic? Especially in light of this historical document.

zuma

The Corinthian wrote:

So as to avoid ambiguity; after all Germany was referred to in terms of both east and west up until reunification, as Korea still is referred to in terms of north and south.

That would be because they were/are completely separate political entities.

Have you ever seen an English/Welsh/Scottish or Northern Ireland passport as the previous examples you mentioned has separate passports?

The Corinthian

zuma wrote:

That would be because they were/are completely separate political entities.

And, irredentism aside, the UK province of Northern Ireland is not?