Everyone complains about the weather, but no-one does anything about it!

RiderOnTheStorm

ok, there are lots of threads and posts here about bad driving / parking / courtesy etc, but what can a concernd driver (or pedestrian) do?

When you are walking down the street and see a car pull in to park on a double yellow by a corner / junction, do you say anything?
Do you leave a note on the car that parks in the disabled spot (and has no disabled card)?
When driving at max speed limit for that road, do you flash the guy that overtakes you?
Do you sound horn at drivers that are on the phone?
Could you put up posters / signs in your area (skipping the planning permission / litter for the purpose of this hypothetical situation just for a moment) asking people to slow down?
or putting little black crosses in the ditch along a know black spot?
Do we do nothing? afterall, we are not the gardai, its not our job to be the moral police.
Do we pull over and let speeder overtake? let karma catch them all? call the Traffic watch only when there is a really really dangerous driver out there?

Is every situation different?

......so, up to you, good folk of Boards.ie.....what would you do? Is there anything we can do?

unkel

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

Do we pull over and let speeder overtake?

Always. Also vacate the overtaking lane at the earliest safe time to do so

Anan1

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

When driving at max speed limit for that road, do you flash the guy that overtakes you?

No. Why distract someone who's driving fast already?

RiderOnTheStorm

unkel wrote:

Always. Also vacate the overtaking lane at the earliest safe time to do so

I meant pull into hard shoulder (if there is one), not move from overtaking lane to left lane in dual carrigway / motorway....my mistake (ambigious statement).

Anan1 wrote:

No. Why distract someone who's driving fast already?

True, but my question is ultimatelty, can a bad driver do anyting they want, and we all just take it?

unkel

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

I meant pull into hard shoulder (if there is one)

Depends. Usually, if it is safe to do so and if there is no other way for a car to overtake me, I would. Doesn't happen very often though

Big Nelly

unkel wrote:

Depends. Usually, if it is safe to do so and if there is no other way for a car to overtake me, I would. Doesn't happen very often though

Heard this yesterday and not sure how true it is but either they plan to bring it out or it is already out that lorry's/car that pull into hard shoulder to let other cars past will be given 2 penalty points from now on, not sure again how true but a few people had it

I never pull in, Im always the one who is going the fastest:p

LikeOhMyGawd!

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

Do you sound horn at drivers that are on the phone?

If I encounter someone who is being a muppet and then discover as I pass that they have a phone to their ear, I hold down the horn for as long as I am alongside them. Hopefully the person in the other end of the phone will get the message that the person they are speaking to is a danger on the road.

Stark

Big Nelly wrote:

Heard this yesterday and not sure how true it is but either they plan to bring it out or it is already out that lorry's/car that pull into hard shoulder to let other cars past will be given 2 penalty points from now on, not sure again how true but a few people had it

That was always a grey area. Some people have told me it's fine, others have told me it's illegal. You definitely get penalty points for driving on the hard shoulder, I'm not sure if pulling in briefly counts.

Vegeta

Big Nelly wrote:

Heard this yesterday and not sure how true it is but either they plan to bring it out or it is already out that lorry's/car that pull into hard shoulder to let other cars past will be given 2 penalty points from now on, not sure again how true but a few people had it

I never pull in, Im always the one who is going the fastest:p

http://www.drivinginfo.ie/penaltypoints.php

it is definitely penalty points to drive on the hard shoulder on a motorway, not sure about dual carriage way

cargrouch

The guards sometimes set themselves up between two roundabouts here in Cork where people regularly skip traffic along the hard shoulder. I presume they were giving points and fines.

Wishbone Ash

Vegeta wrote:

http://www.drivinginfo.ie/penaltypoints.php

it is definitely penalty points to drive on the hard shoulder on a motorway, not sure about dual carriage way

It is perfectly legal to utilise the hard shoulder to allow another motorist past if it is bordered by a broken yellow line. Motorways have a continuous yellow line and therefore it is illegal to drive on it.

Vegeta

why didn't they just say crossing a solid yellow line

Wishbone Ash

cargrouch wrote:

The guards sometimes set themselves up between two roundabouts here in Cork where people regularly skip traffic along the hard shoulder. I presume they were giving points and fines.

I think the OP and I were referring to pulling over to the hard shoulder to allow a faster vehicle to pass, not using it as a extra lane.

Esel

The only time you should drive on the hard shoulder is when coming to halt or rejoining the carriageway. AFAIK, driving on the hard shoulder is illegal. If not, it should be!

slade_x

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

Is there anything we can do?

No, if the gardai and good displays of driving etiquette can't do anything, what can we hope to do. Its already hopeless

Wishbone Ash

esel wrote:

The only time you should drive on the hard shoulder is when coming to halt or rejoining the carriageway. AFAIK, driving on the hard shoulder is illegal. If not, it should be!

Rules of the road (22nd Edition)

'Roadway Markings'

"If a driver wishes to allow a following vehicle to overtake, use can be made temporarily of the hard shoulder in order to move out of the way if there are no cyclists/pedestrians already using it"

Owen

Concerned Driver? Jesus, if I knew anyone who was doing stuff like this I'd label them Nazi rather than concerned. People enjoy motoring, and guess what? Sometimes people break speed limits. It happens in every country in the world, get over it. Sure, if someone's doing 100mph, phone the Gards, but if they're doing 70 and over take you, then deal with it.

What seems dangerous in one car, is acceptable in another. A Nissan Micra feels under pressure at 60mph, but a v8 BMW 750 would be breaking a stride, and able to stop much faster than the Nissan. So if someone seems reckless, bear in mind that a) Their car is capable of stopping a lot faster than yours b) they may just have some advanced driving courses under their belts and is not only reading the road ahead, driving defensively, but may also be running commentary to be certain they're not causing an accident waiting to happen.

Do I sound the horn at drivers on the phone? No. They're distracted enough.

Do I put notes on Windscreens of cars parked in Disabled spots? Definitely not. I don't know who parked the car there. It could be someone on crutches who's entitled to use the space, but doesn't have a sticker, or it could be someone who's recently applied for, and been approved a sticker, but who's waiting for it in the post.

Driving conditions in this country will always be appauling until we get a decent motorway network. We're in a situation where people need to get to their destinations, fast, but the road network is still stuck in the 70s.

Sorry for a rant, but the holier-than-thou-do-gooders of the motoring world drive me crazy. If a guy is blatantly dangerous, or is blocking access to hospital, etc, then sure, call the Gards, otherwise stop over-reacting. If we all try to get to our destinations safely, and show COURTESY to other road drivers, the world would be a better place. That guy who's overtaking you may just be a doctor on his way to save someone.

RiderOnTheStorm

ned78 wrote:

What seems dangerous in one car, is acceptable in another. A Nissan Micra feels under pressure at 60mph, but a v8 BMW 750 would be breaking a stride, and able to stop much faster than the Nissan.

whats the stopping distance for a Micra @ 60 and a BMW 750 @ 100? .... bet the micra has shorter distance. Doesnt matter what it feels like to drive, what does it feel like when it hits a 7 year old girl? How far into the garden will the 750 flip at that speed as opposed to the micra at 60?

Speeding is wrong.....just cause you can do it, or (worse) everyone else is doing it, dont make it right.

ned78 wrote:

... but may also be running commentary to be certain they're not causing an accident waiting to happen.

not sure about your point here....

ned78 wrote:

Driving conditions in this country will always be appauling until we get a decent motorway network. We're in a situation where people need to get to their destinations, fast, but the road network is still stuck in the 70s.

I agree 110%

ned78 wrote:

If we all try to get to our destinations safely, and show COURTESY to other road drivers...

not sure why I should show courtesy to a builders van pulling a trailer with no lights on it, passing me as I do 100k in a 100k zone (not an extreme example, as it happens fairly regularly). He might just be giving a doctor a lift to an accident after their car got blocked in by a Nazi..... its possible so I should do nothing (ostrich & sand, anyone?)

also, is any speeding driver showing me courtesy? or my kids? (or anyone that has kids that live within a ball-throw of a road?)

kikel

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Rules of the road (22nd Edition)

'Roadway Markings'

"If a driver wishes to allow a following vehicle to overtake, use can be made temporarily of the hard shoulder in order to move out of the way if there are no cyclists/pedestrians already using it"

Thats news to me. I always taught it was illegal. Saying that i always pull into the hard shoulder for others. Even did it for the Gardai on occasion when they were just driving normally. They gave me a flash of the hazards on a number of occasion too. I think it's good driving practice if it is safe to do so.

Owen

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

not sure about your point here....

Then you've never done advanced driving courses. It's a style of driving designed to prove to you, and any occupants in the car that you're aware of any potential hazards on the road while you're trying to progress.

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

also, is any speeding driver showing me courtesy? or my kids? (or anyone that has kids that live within a ball-throw of a road?)

If I had a Maud Flanders image, I'd insert it here. Won't someone think of the Children! Yes yes yes, speeding is wrong, but we all do it. I'm not saying speeding near residential estates is okay, but I see nothing wrong with doing 120kph on a road that can handle it.

With regard to a BMW 750 and a Micra hauling up speed, I meant if they were both donig 70mph, I'd be willing to guarantee that the 750 would haul up faster (Clue here, I work for a certain car manufacturer), due to 320mm brake discs all around, 6 pot calipers, 12th gen ABS, and a decent suspension setup to prevent the front wheels taking all of the braking load.

maidhc

If there is one thing which might make the roads even more dangerous it is self appointed vigilantes imposing on others what their notion of "safe driving" is.

Drive safely yourself, show due consideration to others, don't do stupid things and let the Gardaí look after those who don't.

Owen

maidhc wrote:

If there is one thing which might make the roads even more dangerous it is self appointed vigilantes imposing on others what their notion of "safe driving" is.

Drive safely yourself, show due consideration to others, don't do stupid things and let the Gardaí look after those who don't.

Amen!

Esel

ned78 wrote:

.. a) Their car is capable of stopping a lot faster than yours b) they may just have some advanced driving courses under their belts and is not only reading the road ahead, driving defensively, but may also be running commentary to be certain they're not causing an accident waiting to happen...

RiderOnTheStorm found this confusing, so did I. But I could decipher what you meant. By the way, the 'running commentary' is done mentally, it is not to prove anything to either the driver or other occupants. I take it that by "not causing an accident waiting to happen" you mean "proceeding safely"?

Presumably this 'advanced' driver knows all about road positioning, the vanishing point, mirror/signal/manoeuvre, straightening the road etc. etc. So, we should all defer to drivers of speeding top-of-the-range cars on the basis that they may have done an advanced driving course? Oh, right, that's what the hard shoulder is for! :rolleyes:

'Haul up speed'? You mean 'brake'? Why not use the word we all know and understand. First time I ever heard your phrase, tbh.

ned78 wrote:

I see nothing wrong with doing 120kph on a road that can handle it.

You must be an 'advanced driver' then. Keep up the running commentary. But don't forget about the tractor/trailer driver pulling out across that road (the one that can 'handle' 120kph - how does a road handle speed?), who won't be expecting your approach at what may be double the speed limit.

Owen

esel wrote:

Presumably this 'advanced' driver knows all about road positioning, the vanishing point, mirror/signal/manoeuvre, straightening the road etc. etc.

Well, seeing as they are the very basics covered in most 'advanced' driving courses, and the ones being advertised on TV to show people how to corner properly, then yes. I would assume most people claming to have done an advanced lesson or two would know this. The limiting point in a corner you speak of is probably the first thing anyone is thought about, mirror signal and [check], which you seem to have left out, is another one.

esel wrote:

So, we should all defer to drivers of speeding top-of-the-range cars on the basis that they may have done an advanced driving course?

No. Nowhere in my post did it say to 'defer' to drivers of top-of-the-range cars. Whatever defer means in this context.

esel wrote:

You must be an 'advanced driver' then. Keep up the running commentary. But don't forget about the tractor/trailer driver pulling out across that road (the one that can 'handle' 120kph - how does a road handle speed?), who won't be expecting your approach at what may be double the speed limit.

A road that can handle a faster speed would be IMO a dual carriageway, or a main, straight, wide road where all junctions and access points are visible. If you're stupid enough to be driving flat out on a road where tractors and trailers could pull out, then you shouldn't be on the road.

You're asking if I've done any driver training? I've done more courses than I care to remember about. I've ridden with Gardaí, marshalled with them, and the company I work for takes us on advanced driving courses once a year. Not just commentary based defensive driving, not just road reading, not just hazard anticipation and avoidance, not just knowing how to correctly load the car's suspension and drive train in corners for stability, but actually what to do when it does go pear shaped. Some of what we do is train on skid pans, through slalom courses, and on figure of 8 tracks to see the limits of both tires, but more importantly, drivers, and the limits of driver fatigue. In fact, we're off to Germany in August to do it all again.

But sure, this is Ireland, and isn't everyone an expert ... :rolleyes:

Archeron

ned78 wrote:

But sure, this is Ireland, and isn't everyone an expert ... :rolleyes:

Absolutely. A friend of mine done an advanced driving course. Now he feels, that because he is "better" than anyone else he knows in relation to driving, he feels its perfectly acceptable to undertake in bus lanes in heavy traffic at well over the speed limit with his lights on full beam in the middle of the day. Although, he drives a dark blue Primera, so the fact that other people will presume he is a copper makes it okay. This is what he has actually said to us, and the advanced driver course means any questioning of this logic ends with a response like "well you havent done X course, so you dont know what you;'re talking about". Hmmmm, yes.

Like you say, everybody's an expert.

Owen

TBH, the only thing I've found after doing courses, is that I'm quite happy to drive at 50kph. Weird, eh?

numorouno

iv done an advanced course and i find that like ned said im driving a way slower for most of the time because of hazard or possible hazard identification up ahead. i will drive it on sometimes but only when all the conditions are right for it but if i can stop in the distance i can see to be clear or there are even potential hazards up ahead i will only drive as fast as i can stop the car in the distance i see to be clear. thats what an advanced course would teach you.
imo everybody should be tought it as a part of CBT for cars