Structural Engineering with Architecture (UCD)

Funkstard

Anyone have any info about this course? I have it high on my CAO, but I can't find much on it. I'm a bit worried it will leave you in the middle ie. not being able to get a job in an Architects office, likewise in a Civil/Struct. Engineering firm. My first choices are Architecture btw. However I think I would like Engineering also, which is why this course might suit me - yet the whole job area afterwards is all a bit confusing. I think the first graduates only came out this year, so no help there either.

Also one quick question on Civil eng, it's the lowest paid of the engineering disciplines isn't it? Is there much oppurtunity to rise to a high paying job?

Actually any info comparing the two professions (Arch + Civ Eng) would be great. Cheers.

pauln

I'll get the ball rolling here by stating that I'm doing Mech Eng and as such can't be sure on any of this, it's just my take on it.

From reading the list of modules in the course (Here) it appears to lean strongly towards the Structural/Civil Engineering side of things with additional Architecture design and history modules in there. In this regard if Architecture is what your heart is drawing you to then you may be a little disappointed in the lack of Architecture specific modules.

Also I noticed that the course is neither recognised by Engineers Ireland or the Royal Society of Architects. Now while this in itself is not the end of the world as recognition by either is not the test of a courses quality it is just something to take note of.

As for the whole Architects vs. Engineers thing my experience of Architects to date has been that they are art and design based and they lack in the practicalities of what is and is not possible when it comes to the realisation of their ideas (Generalisations I know, not all are like this. It's meant more as a statement of what their course teaches them/lacks.)
Likewise engineers tend to be rooted in the practical end of things and lacking in the creative/artistic side.
Both are needed to achieve the best end result but both are quite different in there approaches.

The course looks to be trying to bridge the void between the two (but leaning to the eng side).

If I was choosing I might be inclined to pick a course in one or the other areas and possibly do a masters later if I still felt like exploring other options then. The benefits of this would be a good solid grounding in a particular field and you can then build from there.

It's a choice in the end. Whatever way you go it'll be no better/worse then the other just different with different outcomes and if you like it then nothing else really matters as that's half the battle with college courses.

You should try to contact someone in the course or ring the head of the course and ask them more questions that's part of their job and shouldn't mind helping your decision.

Funkstard

Yeh I've noticed that too. The modules do lean heavily towards engineering, with what appears to be a smattering of an Architectural education. The qualifications too back this up - A BSc and Master of Engineering.

Thing is, I'm leaning towards Architecture but am really interested in the logic/problem solving thats imvolved in Engineering (Maths & TD were my two favourite subjects this year, with Art following after). My reckoning is that I'll learn that in Architecture, along with the design/creative process which would be lacking in Engineering.

Therefore this course should be perfect for me but I'm not sure. I don't think the course is accredited until the first few batches of graduates are out, so I wouldn't be too worried about that.

pauln

Funkstard wrote:

I don't think the course is accredited until the first few batches of graduates are out, so I wouldn't be too worried about that.

Not sure of that but the course would at best be accredited by one the bodies, but which one? It wouldn't appear to meet the criteria as a full Architecture course which would rule out RIAI and it may not meet the EI's creiteria either, leaving it in a kind of limbo.

I wouldn't over estimate the amount of engineering like problem soliving/logic involved in Architecture. My experience of working with them is that they display more of a project management/creative director role to a project and the Architectural technicians provide the technical basis to the work with a Civil/Structural engineering being hired to do the more specialised specifications.

What about Industrial Design Engineering courses or any of the design engineering courses? Maybe not based in the construction end of things but certainly a good mix of engineering/design.

Funkstard

My brother has just finished his BDes in Industrial Design in NCAD so I have experience of that too. I'm not sure I'm made for that sort of creativeness, also even though he won overall graduate designer last year, he found it very difficult to find work. The Design industry in Ireland is tiny.

"It wouldn't appear to meet the criteria as a full Architecture course which would rule out RIAI and it may not meet the EI's creiteria either, leaving it in a kind of limbo."

That's what I'm worried about in a nutshell.

Looking at the modules for Architecture in UCD you're right, there's no, from what I can see, real maths involved in the course.

Hmm.

Darren1o1

I'd have to agree with Pauln(but i too am from mech eng background), seems like an Engineering degree with added arch art and history modules and some build services thrown in rather than 50/50 split. Best would definitely to call or email course head and ask what exactly the course aims to give. ie. Engineers with arch basic or 50/50 split?

AS regard to accredation criterion(from EI point of view) Does it not take at least 5 yrs of a course running(I know as my course in DCU only got recently accepted) before you apply to get a course accreditted. This should not really come into it as individuals can apply and do tests to gain membership of the institutes. I'm sure associate membership may also be a viable option like some Btech later on if full membership is not for course.

pauln

Darren1o1 wrote:

AS regard to accredation criterion(from EI point of view) Does it not take at least 5 yrs of a course running(I know as my course in DCU only got recently accepted) before you apply to get a course accreditted.

There's some sort of delay alright but also certain criteria a course must meet and I'd say this one has a better chance of being recognised as an engineering course then a architectural one.

The main, if not maybe only reason I like a course to be accredited is that it makes your qualifications more recognised if you want to go and work abroad through various agreements between the different countries accreditation bodies.
Also chartered status is easier to get coming from an accredited course. For Civil/Structural engineers it seems to be a more sought after thing as you see a lot more chartered civil engineers then anything else.

As for Mechs I'd say it makes no difference, I don't think I’ve ever met a chartered Mech engineer it's just not something sought after in our line. (most I've met are not even a member of Engineers Ireland).

Funkstard wrote:

The Design industry in Ireland is tiny.

I agree there. You see very few working here at proper full time engineering design, most have to go abroad if they want this type of work.

Darren1o1

My statement was merely that there must be 5 yrs since a course starts for a course to get accreditted to the EI(so they can evaluate first yr of grads), along with the technical and social side of the education. This course as i am aware is only 2 yrs old so will therefore not have any chance of getting acredditted to any instittute(not that it won't). So this is nothing to go by Currently.

Perhaps in the future it might but an established engineering/architectural faculty should know that membership of an institute is quite important in the field and must have made inquires

No arguments on the fact it looks more engineering than anything

breadmonkey

I am about to go into 3rd Civil and have been in most classes with SEA (Structural Engineering with Architecture).

I really dont think it's a good one to go for. They are basically doing a really difficult science degree that isn't even accredited. In 1st year, they did almost the exact same course as us. 2nd year was almost identical as well except for a few things that were a bit different.

Up until now (which is all I can comment on), it has been very eng heavy. I don't understand where you can fit in with this degree. It seems to me that they won't quite be engineers, and won't quite be Architects.

I mean, a few modules of Architecture related courses won;t leave you with nearly as much knowledge as an Architecture student who has been studying for 5 years (?). Likewise, you won;t know as much as a Civil Eng student who has done more eng subjects for the 3 years you were together, and then done an extra year of eng on top of that. Are they supposed to brifge the gap or something? Definitely not for me but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I don't get this course.

Darren1o1

But i think they are expect to use the european model of studying, ie 3 year for basic knowledge and extra 2 yrs to be accreditted(and being expected). So although after basic undergrad they will have less knowledge i'd say they are expect to do another 2 yrs for msc. From what i have seen and heard they have been advertising it as a 5 yr course in some places. I can't see any reason after further 2 yrs why they wouldn't have a good enough grounding for accreditation though.

Mellor

Darren1o1 wrote:

But i think they are expect to use the european model of studying, ie 3 year for basic knowledge and extra 2 yrs to be accreditted(and being expected). So although after basic undergrad they will have less knowledge i'd say they are expect to do another 2 yrs for msc. From what i have seen and heard they have been advertising it as a 5 yr course in some places. I can't see any reason after further 2 yrs why they wouldn't have a good enough grounding for accreditation though.

if you are leaning to towards architecture, i would make sure that architecture courses are top, followed by arch. technology if you are interested.
As far as i can remember, this course came out in my cao year, i had it as a 5th choice, so the graduates should only be entering third year now.
I'd say it leves you very much in the middle ground, what do you want from a course

godtabh

I would've loved to have done this course if it was around when I was doing my CAO.


Does any one know if there is a post grad course similar for this i.e for an engineer but architectural based?

Darren1o1

kearnsr wrote:

I would've loved to have done this course if it was around when I was doing my CAO.


Does any one know if there is a post grad course similar for this i.e for an engineer but architectural based?

They mention in the prospectus about a masters but is not on the website have a look http://www.ucd.ie/prospec/2006/eng_arch.pdf

selephonic

I'm just finished 1st year of this course. Yep it leans more toward engineering with the bit of architecture thrown in. Of the 12 modules only 2 in first year are specifically architecture. Basically you do the first year engineering course without electrical engineering. Modules are: Maths (3 modules), physics, mechanics, chemistry, thermodynamics, History/theory of Architecture(2 modules), design of structure, Drawing(CAD and Manual) and an elective.

It is a 5 year course really, a 3 year degree and then 2 year masters. There are 2 different masters so you can choose your path then really.

Any more questions just ask.