Speeding - punishments

TheBazman

A friend of mine was in court today for getting caught doing 70km in a 50km zone. He had not paid the fine as they had the wrong address for him and eventually only found out when a garda tracked him down. This also happened to him about 6months ago. On both occasions the judge was the same.
First time : struck out as it was a genuine mistake
Second time: "150 eur fine and 28 days to pay"
Now the second time he was in exactly the same situation- why was the punishment (or lack of) not the same. He did not have a solicitor but even still he was not given a chance to defend himself or even comment. He said the judge was in "foul" form

More seriously he said there were loads of people in court for getting caught doing 100km on the 60km section of the Naas Road. I presume it was between the red cow and longmile but maybe it is where the road works are on the N7 (altho I'm not sure what the legal status is with temporary speed limits ). Anyway the punishment 600 euro and 6 MONTHS OFF THE ROAD. They were also given no chance to defend themselves. One guy piped up that he needed his car for work etc and how does he go about appealing. The judge said " I dont care, talk to someone else".

Now of course speeding should not be condoned but does 6mths off the road seem a bit harsh? Anyway let it be a warning

Stark

TheBazman wrote:

First time : struck out as it was a genuine mistake
Second time: "150 eur fine and 28 days to pay"
Now the second time he was in exactly the same situation- why was the punishment (or lack of) not the same. He did not have a solicitor but even still he was not given a chance to defend himself or even comment. He said the judge was in "foul" form

You can hardly claim it was a genuine mistake when you do the exact same thing twice now can you?

I agree with you on the second part of the post though, the 6 month ban was very harsh.

TheBazman

Sry " genuine mistake" refers not to the actual speeding but to the fact that they had the wrong address for him and on both occasions did not know that he had been caught speeding. I dont know where they get a record of peoples address (tax?) but even this time he asked the judge "can i give someone my correct address" ... got no answer.

Hagar

Well if the address was wrong the second time as well it just shows the Gardaí aren't learning by experience either..

green-blood

if the address wasnt right the second time it means he has not informed the registration office in Trallee of a change of address and so deserves his fine

Hagar

green-blood wrote:

if the address wasnt right the second time it means he has not informed the registration office in Trallee of a change of address and so deserves his fine

How did you come to that conclusion? The State, despite spending a fortune on computer systems, still can't get it's act together with data processing/record keeping...

green-blood

its your responsibility to inform the state when you fricken move gaf.... duh, thats of course assuming he was done by a scamera. The alternative was that twice in 6 months a garda wrote down the wrong addy for him (unlikely) or that he deliberately gave a slight variation on his address to a Garda - we're not condoning that type of behaviour are we?

Hagar

green-blood wrote:

its your responsibility to inform the state when you fricken move gaf...we're not condoning that type of behaviour are we?

I'm just suggesting that the public don't get good value for money where State computer contracts are concerned with the subsequent fallout re accuracy of data etc.
I definitely do not condone the deliberate misleading of Gardaí. That is a criminal offence I believe.

Stark

From the OP's story, he asked how to go about correcting his address and was fobbed off.

To be honest, I wouldn't have a clue of all the different places to go to (for everything) if I changed address. I've been giving my parents' address for most things ever since I moved home so I wouldn't have to deal with the hassle (I'm renting at the moment so not in permanent accommodation).

I heard an ad on the radio the other day though for a website (www.newaddress.ie) that helps you with all that kind of stuff. I wonder if it would update the relevant address in this case?

TheBazman

green-blood wrote:

its your responsibility to inform the state when you fricken move gaf.... duh, thats of course assuming he was done by a scamera. The alternative was that twice in 6 months a garda wrote down the wrong addy for him (unlikely) or that he deliberately gave a slight variation on his address to a Garda - we're not condoning that type of behaviour are we?

He was done by camera or gatso. I'm curious about what you say when you say inform the state. What exactly do you mean. I have moved address a few times and have changed my address for all the usual places (banks, clubs, insurance companies etc etc) but I have never consciously informed the state? Where do the Gardai source your address from to send out a fine?

John R

TheBazman wrote:

He was done by camera or gatso. I'm curious about what you say when you say inform the state. What exactly do you mean. I have moved address a few times and have changed my address for all the usual places (banks, clubs, insurance companies etc etc) but I have never consciously informed the state? Where do the Gardai source your address from to send out a fine?

Car registration records.

The obvious question is that if they could not send the fixed penalty notice to the correct address how come the court summons reached him?

Going up in front of a judge on these sort of matters is a complete lottery, some are notoriously hard on speeding, others are lenient and alot of them are just moody old cnutbags who will let people off one day because they got a good suck off a rent boy at lunch while they screw people over the next day after being forced to have dinner with the mother in law the night before.

jimmycrackcorm

The friend should have had a solicitor expecially when it was his second time up.

seamus

Yeah, after the first time, he should have made sure that the state had his up-to-date address so this wouldn't happen again.

Afaik, it comes from the vehicle's reg. When you move house, you're supposed to get a new registration cert with your new address.

6 month ban for the other guy is a little harsh, but perhaps there's more than we know about - perhaps he was doing 120km/h on that stretch of road. Perhaps he already had 10 points (thus incurring a 6 month ban for getting 12).

TheBazman

seamus wrote:

Yeah, after the first time, he should have made sure that the state had his up-to-date address so this wouldn't happen again.

Afaik, it comes from the vehicle's reg. When you move house, you're supposed to get a new registration cert with your new address.

6 month ban for the other guy is a little harsh, but perhaps there's more than we know about - perhaps he was doing 120km/h on that stretch of road. Perhaps he already had 10 points (thus incurring a 6 month ban for getting 12).

The 6 month ban was not just for one guy - it was quite a few (all doing around 100 on the 60km section of the Naas road)

Our man in Havana

TheBazman wrote:

The 6 month ban was not just for one guy - it was quite a few (all doing around 100 on the 60km section of the Naas road)

I take it these idiots were offered the standard €80 and 2 points offer and didn't pay up?

I bet the local circuit court will be full of appeals shortly.

dudara

There is one particular judge who is handing out fines and bans like those described above. He's being quite harsh on people caught speeding. I read an article about him in the Sunday Times about a month ago. If anyone can remember that particular article, please add more details.

Jood

I got caught on that stretch of road as well. I was doing 80 in a 60, paid my fine and took the two points, glad I didnt contest it now.

Bards

What I find hard to stomach is that there was no due process. I.E he should have been alllowed to address the court. I though it was enshrined in our constitution, but I could be mistaken

Our man in Havana

It is! Those people have a very strong case for an appeal to the circuit court. The circuit court would probably reduce it to 4 points and a fine of about €200.

Bards

Bond-007 wrote:

It is! Those people have a very strong case for an appeal to the circuit court. The circuit court would probably reduce it to 4 points and a fine of about €200.

Yes but if the circuit court found that the district court acted in error then the case should be thrown out.

MercMad

As the lads have stated if you move house you are supposed to update your vehicle records. Asking, in court, how to go about it is foolish and deserves a fine in itself !!

However I DO find it frustrating that the due process is not allowed, though as far as I know you are not allowed to make any representations on your own behalf unless the Judge asks you to comment !

Annoying even further is the threat that if you DO go to court you may get double the points ! I receieved two points when I wasn't even in the car !!

Stark

MercMad wrote:

Annoying even further is the threat that if you DO go to court you may get double the points ! I receieved two points when I wasn't even in the car !!

Yes, that's a disgrace.

blastman

So maybe we should ask the question: is the address on his VLC incorrect? Then we can stop making assumptions.

TheBazman

blastman wrote:

So maybe we should ask the question: is the address on his VLC incorrect? Then we can stop making assumptions.

He only changed his car about 6months ago (brand new) so he would have given the new address then. the offences happened since then

Anyway we needn't beat this to death - I suppose the main point was that its better in most occasions to take your 2 points and 80 euro fine as it can be a whole lot worse