Unmarked 99D car with siren in bus lane - claiming to be Garda

vector

Anan1 wrote:

...has it ever occurred to you that somebody somewhere might be desperately awaiting the arrival of that Garda car you're blocking?...

Yes, but as a driver my primary concern must be my own position, if I do something in my car, such as breaking a red light (even if it is to save a garda car a few seconds) then it is me personally that could get the penalty points, you won't be there explaining my case, you won't pay my fine, you won't pay my increased insurance next year

Alas this is the reality of driving, talk is one thing, but out on the road, you must look out for number 1

John R

Anan1 wrote:

Let's hope it's not your own loved ones they're rushing to help when you do that.

I'll weigh the odds of that happening against the odds of them screwing me over for some petty infringement....

Nope, not going to change my driving in their presence no matter what.

Anan1

vector wrote:

Yes, but as a driver my primary concern must be my own position, if I do something in my car, such as breaking a red light (even if it is to save a garda car a few seconds) then it is me personally that could get the penalty points, you won't be there explaining my case, you won't pay my fine, you won't pay my increased insurance next year

Alas this is the reality of driving, talk is one thing, but out on the road, you must look out for number 1

John R wrote:

I'll weigh the odds of that happening against the odds of them screwing me over for some petty infringement....

Nope, not going to change my driving in their presence no matter what.

Do you two honestly believe you'll get penalty points for moving slowly through a red light to facilitate a Garda car with sirens blaring? If so, with all due respect, you are both too stupid to drive.

Santa Claus

Anan1 wrote:

Do you two honestly believe you'll get penalty points for moving slowly through a red light to facilitate a Garda car with sirens blaring? If so, with all due respect, you are both too stupid to drive.

Exactly !
If you are instructed to move through a red traffic light by a garda then NO action can be taken against you !

pburns

As someone else said, a 2.2 Camry is very likely gto be the Guards...

RainyDay

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I rang my local station, gave them the reg number and he stated that it was a Garda car. I'm hoping that if it was a Garda's car, as opposed to a Garda car, he wouldn't have recognised the details immediately. I asked them if Gardai were entitled to use the bus lane and he answered 'Oh yeah, they do'. When I pointed out that he was answering a different question to the one I asked, he told me that he'd never heard of a Guard being up in court for using a bus lane.

So I still don't know if a guard is entitled to use the bus lane! If anyone has any specifics on this, I'd be delighted to hear them.

Steffano2002

[RANT]As far as I'm concerned, emergency vehicles should obey official speed limits/the rules of the road unless in the case of an emergency.
I'm fed up seeing Gards doing illegal U-turns, using bus lanes, speeding and driving dangerously, etc without their lights/sirens on! Who the fook do they think they are? They're not above the law!
Do people who work at the tax office not get taxed? Do people who work at the motor taxation office not pay road tax? Do doctors get free healthcare?
Gards should be showing the example when driving yet if you just keep your eyes on a Garda car for 30 seconds it makes so many illegal moves that the Gard driving should have is license revoked! Idiots...[/RANT]

Stark

Unfortunately with the current culture in the force, it would be career suicide for a garda to pull another garda driving illegally.

It's the rare person who'll obey a traffic law when they have 100% certainty that they'll get away with breaking it.

Steffano2002

Isn't there an equivalent of the French "Police des Polices" in Ireland to check what our wild cowboys are up to?

Santa Claus

RainyDay wrote:

Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I rang my local station, gave them the reg number and he stated that it was a Garda car. I'm hoping that if it was a Garda's car, as opposed to a Garda car, he wouldn't have recognised the details immediately. I asked them if Gardai were entitled to use the bus lane and he answered 'Oh yeah, they do'. When I pointed out that he was answering a different question to the one I asked, he told me that he'd never heard of a Guard being up in court for using a bus lane.

So I still don't know if a guard is entitled to use the bus lane! If anyone has any specifics on this, I'd be delighted to hear them.

You're certainly not trying to make any friends in your local station asking questions like that.

It has been stated many times before that garda vehicles on official business are EXEMPT from most parts of the road traffic act (not exempt from driving under influence, careless driving and driving without reasonable consideration but should you wish to further ingratiate yourself with the local station Rainyday, you can ring them to double check this!)

I'm not a garda myself before anyone jumps to conclusions, but it amazes me how many people get pissed at Gardai being able to run lights, use bus lanes etc. They are an emergency service and lets face it, it's a fairly thankless job.

Sometimes the 30 seconds they save by crashing a red light with sirens on or driving up a bus lane can save someones life...surely no one would begrudge that !?!

The Muppet

Santa Claus wrote:

heck this!)

I'm not a garda myself before anyone jumps to conclusions, but it amazes me how many people get pissed at Gardai being able to run lights, use bus lanes etc. They are an emergency service and lets face it, it's a fairly thankless job.

Sometimes the 30 seconds they save by crashing a red light with sirens on or driving up a bus lane can save someones life...surely no one would begrudge that !?!

Well said, I suppose those complaining would not mind if they were in urgent need an emergency service and it was delayed in traffic because the driver was obeying the rules of the road.

RainyDay

Santa Claus wrote:

You're certainly not trying to make any friends in your local station asking questions like that.

It has been stated many times before that garda vehicles on official business are EXEMPT from most parts of the road traffic act (not exempt from driving under influence, careless driving and driving without reasonable consideration but should you wish to further ingratiate yourself with the local station Rainyday, you can ring them to double check this!)

I'm not out to make friends, surprisingly enough. Are we supposed to live our lives in fear of challenging anyone in authority? The days when ordinary citizens kow-tow to gardai/priests/bank managers are long gone.

As stated above, I already asked the relevant question to the Garda station and got the evasive answer mentioned above. If anyone knows the facts (and can provide a supporting reference to the relevant law(s)), I'd love to hear from them.

Santa Claus wrote:

I'm not a garda myself before anyone jumps to conclusions, but it amazes me how many people get pissed at Gardai being able to run lights, use bus lanes etc. They are an emergency service and lets face it, it's a fairly thankless job.

Sometimes the 30 seconds they save by crashing a red light with sirens on or driving up a bus lane can save someones life...surely no one would begrudge that !?!

As stated in the original post, the driver told me this was not an emergency. He was not going to save someone's life. He was not using a beacon or siren (until I challenged him).

I don't see any reason why Gardai should be exempt from the normal traffic laws when not attending to emergencies. I can see many reasons why the normal laws should apply, including avoiding creating resentment among ordinary citizens, developing a better understanding the of the impacts of our current traffic mess, and safety.

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote:

I'm not out to make friends, surprisingly enough. Are we supposed to live our lives in fear of challenging anyone in authority? The days when ordinary citizens kow-tow to gardai/priests/bank managers are long gone.

As stated above, I already asked the relevant question to the Garda station and got the evasive answer mentioned above. If anyone knows the facts (and can provide a supporting reference to the relevant law(s)), I'd love to hear from them.


As stated in the original post, the driver told me this was not an emergency. He was not going to save someone's life. He was not using a beacon or siren (until I challenged him).

I don't see any reason why Gardai should be exempt from the normal traffic laws when not attending to emergencies. I can see many reasons why the normal laws should apply, including avoiding creating resentment among ordinary citizens, developing a better understanding the of the impacts of our current traffic mess, and safety.

You seem to be missing the point RainyDay. You opinion on the law is irrevelant. Just because you don't like a regulation, that does not make it wrong. As has been stated, ad nauseum, the Gardai are exempt from most of the Road Traffic Act regulations while on official business. It doesn't have to be an emergency. If you are unhappy with that then I suggest that you lobby your local representatives and the Minister for Justice and Law Reform. This Garda was perfectly entitled to use that bus lane. I think you got off lightly - learn from that experience. Your registration has probably been noted and a mention made in PULSE where you will be listed in the Catalogue of Inquiry. Adopt a more mature attitude in future.

Our man in Havana

RainyDay wrote:

I don't see any reason why Gardai should be exempt from the normal traffic laws when not attending to emergencies. I can see many reasons why the normal laws should apply, including avoiding creating resentment among ordinary citizens, developing a better understanding the of the impacts of our current traffic mess, and safety.

I had similar problems with Gardai when I was a traffic warden. They would always be getting tickets on their private cars. They never paid any of them. You always got a standard letter that they were on duty at the time so exempt under the provisions of the Road Traffic Act 1961.

I was advised my by manager not to push the matter once that reply was received. Used to make my blood boil. :mad:

RainyDay

Wishbone Ash wrote:

You seem to be missing the point RainyDay. You opinion on the law is irrevelant. Just because you don't like a regulation, that does not make it wrong. As has been stated, ad nauseum, the Gardai are exempt from most of the Road Traffic Act regulations while on official business. It doesn't have to be an emergency. If you are unhappy with that then I suggest that you lobby your local representatives and the Minister for Justice and Law Reform. This Garda was perfectly entitled to use that bus lane. I think you got off lightly - learn from that experience. Your registration has probably been noted and a mention made in PULSE where you will be listed in the Catalogue of Inquiry. Adopt a more mature attitude in future.

Thanks for your advice, but I really think you've missed the point.

It's not a question of my opinion on the law. My remaining question (as clearly stated above) is around what provisions of law give Gardai exemption from Road Traffic Act. It may well have been stated many times that the Gardai have this exemption, but no-one has identified the relevant section of the law that gives them the exemption. Indeed, the Garda that I spoke at the station didn't even claim that they had such an exemption - he just stated that they take the law into their own hands.

So (once again) if anyone knows what specific provisions in law give the Gardai an exemption from the law in relation to bus lanes, I'd be very interested in hearing it.

Wishbone Ash

I've done the homework for you RainyDay: Re: Bus Lanes


(2) A prohibition or restriction imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to the driver of a fire brigade vehicle or an ambulance or to the use by a member of the Garda Siochana of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member, where such use does not thereby endanger the safety of road users.

(3) Save where otherwise expressly provided in these Regulations, a prohibition on the entry of a vehicle to a road or main area or the prohibition on the stopping or parking of a vehicle imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to -

(a) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of an obstruction to traffic;

(b) a vehicle being used in connection with the carrying out of roadworks;

(c) a vehicle being used by a local authority or its agents in connection with the provision of a traffic sign;

(d) a vehicle being used in connection with the removal of a vehicle pursuant to the provisions of regulations made under section 97 of the Principal Act, as amended by section 3 of the Act of 1968, or regulations made under section 41 of the Act of 1994;

(e) a vehicle being used for the purpose of facilitating the immobilisation of a vehicle or the removal of an immobilisation device from a vehicle pursuant to section 101B of the Principal Act, as inserted by section 9 of the Dublin Transport. Authority (Dissolution) Act, 1987 (No. 34 of 1987);

(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;

(g) a vehicle which has been damaged or has broken down, during the period necessary to effect repairs to the vehicle or remove it from the location.

(4) A prohibition on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 36(2) (a) shall not apply to a vehicle parked while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it,for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of the parking.

(5) A prohibition on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 36 (2) (m) shall not apply to a vehicle parked in a cycle track, on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 023 has been provided, while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of such parking.

(6) A restriction on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 37 shall not apply to -

(a) a vehicle to which sub-article (3) applies;

(b) a vehicle parked at the edge of a roadway while a passenger is entering or leaving it; or

(c) a vehicle parked while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it, for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of the parking.".

Our man in Havana

(f) a vehicle being used by a traffic warden in the performance of the duties of that warden;

That's something I never have used once when I was a traffic warden.

RainyDay

Many thanks - That's exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm pretty screwed then! There is the question of whether he was on official business. Given that he was on his own, I'd be a fiver that he was on his way home for dindins, but that would be pretty unprovable either way.

Just for curiousity, which Act does that come from?

keizer

vector wrote:

Yes, but as a driver my primary concern must be my own position, if I do something in my car, such as breaking a red light (even if it is to save a garda car a few seconds) then it is me personally that could get the penalty points, you won't be there explaining my case, you won't pay my fine, you won't pay my increased insurance next year

Alas this is the reality of driving, talk is one thing, but out on the road, you must look out for number 1

Has the country disintigrated into people like this? I don't think any guard in his/her right mind would give anyone penalty points for moving out of their way - even if you have to break a red light.

Wishbone Ash

RainyDay wrote:

Many thanks - That's exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm pretty screwed then! There is the question of whether he was on official business. Given that he was on his own, I'd be a fiver that he was on his way home for dindins, but that would be pretty unprovable either way.

Just for curiousity, which Act does that come from?

Sorry, I forgot to include the link - It probably is an amendment to the 1961 Road Traffic Act. Most of our Traffic Regulations come from this principal Act. If you Google "Bus Lane exemptions" you will probably get it.

Re: Unofficial business - Gardaí work under a 'control' system. They and the car are logged on to a computer control system. They have to request a break. This is not always granted to them. It is not a matter of skiving off when they feel like it. A Garda on a break is still technically 'on duty' and available to respond if required. Therefore he would still, IMO, be entitled to use the bus lane.

Our man in Havana

RainyDay wrote:

Many thanks - That's exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm pretty screwed then! There is the question of whether he was on official business. Given that he was on his own, I'd be a fiver that he was on his way home for dindins, but that would be pretty unprovable either way.

Just for curiousity, which Act does that come from?

Road Traffic Act 1961.

As regards to the offical business aspect, I knew that they were buying lunch, going to the bookies etc but once they said it was offical business you had to let it drop. Otherwise you would be accused of calling them a liar. It was always best to keep in their good books.

Wishbone Ash

Bond-007 wrote:

Road Traffic Act 1961.

As regards to the offical business aspect, I knew that they were buying lunch, going to the bookies etc but once they said it was offical business you had to let it drop. Otherwise you would be accused of calling them a liar. It was always best to keep in their good books.

I suppose that's a perk of the job. I think if I was a Garda, I would probably do the same. I'm sure traffic wardens never get/pay parking tickets or clampers never get clamped.

Our man in Havana

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I suppose that's a perk of the job. I think if I was a Garda, I would probably do the same. I'm sure traffic wardens never get/pay parking tickets or clampers never get clamped.

You are quite correct.

Santa Claus

Bond-007 wrote:

That's something I never have used once when I was a traffic warden.

I think that section is designed more for clampers Bond, as traffic wardens are foot powered !

RainyDay wrote:

Many thanks - That's exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm pretty screwed then! There is the question of whether he was on official business. Given that he was on his own, I'd be a fiver that he was on his way home for dindins, but that would be pretty unprovable either way.

Plain clothes gardai often work on their own, he may have been on his way to check someones alibi or something mundane like that....In no way a 2 man job, but still OFFICIAL GARDA BUSINESS.

junkyard

Bond-007 wrote:

I had similar problems with Gardai when I was a traffic warden. They would always be getting tickets on their private cars. They never paid any of them. You always got a standard letter that they were on duty at the time so exempt under the provisions of the Road Traffic Act 1961.

I was advised my by manager not to push the matter once that reply was received. Used to make my blood boil. :mad:

How exactly was this "letter" worded Bond-007?;)

Turner

vector wrote:

>I have no problem with ambulances or the fire brigade but if I am at a red light and a garda comes tearing up I will not break the light just to let them through.

I think that is a view shared by many, motorists have come to see the gardai as the enemy who are there to catch them, their short term speed trap profiteering has alientated the otherwise law abiding citizenry from the force, ask anyone who has been caught doing say 85 in an 80 zone, sure its speeding but its marginal, it the gardai don't overlook such offences then the motorist will not brake a red light to leave one of their cars through, as they might give him a ticket for that, yes they might, or even if not then what if as consequence of breakibng the light the motorist had an accident

Gardai get to emergency situations alot faster than fire brigades and ambulances as they can travel faster.

Blocking an emergency vehicle is one of the most stupid things you could do, along the same lines as throwing rocks at or attacking firemen when they respond to calls.

Savman

vector wrote:

Alas this is the reality of driving, talk is one thing, but out on the road, you must look out for number 1

So, so true...

deputydugs

My god lads,

deputydugs

Lads lads lads

U see a siren and a blue light you move out of the way. Easy simple and if its a garda, fire or any other emer service just move.

This I hate the local GARDA becasue he is un cool and I know a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy who herd from his friend that a garda kicked the ****e out of him in a cell is getting a wee bit old.

The job is there for us to do, let us do it and stop ranting about us becasue no one can say that if they needed our help the would not call us becasue we are "un cool"

Now for my opinion, We do not need to have a "buddy" with us in the car where ever that idea came about. Also a 99D sounds a bit odd to me but with the way things are it would not surprise me. This idea of checking up on cartell is a load of ****e too, You wont find out if it is an offical car. BUT........call to your local station not RING and explain what happend and ask the garda to do a check. Explain that if it was an offical car that you have no problem but if it is not you wish to make a complaint in writing, In other words a statement. As a person saying they are a garda when they are not just gets my blood boilin. I dont think it was a offical car but I may be wrong.

And as for us standing on the side of the road with a speed gun, That is our job. If we get a call we drop the speed gun and go but stop ranting becasue that is part of our job too " would ya look at the f e cking arse of a garda, why cant he go and get slove real crime" Our job is also to enforce the law and road user have to obey the law to, speeding is also a crim and the way the deat count is going up, you would not think it.

My msg

Either support us or stop ranting. As normal a good question turned into a garda bash by a few.

Spitfire666

deputydugs wrote:

Lads lads lads

U see a siren and a blue light you move out of the way. Easy simple and if its a garda, fire or any other emer service just move.

This I hate the local GARDA becasue he is un cool and I know a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy who herd from his friend that a garda kicked the ****e out of him in a cell is getting a wee bit old.

The job is there for us to do, let us do it and stop ranting about us becasue no one can say that if they needed our help the would not call us becasue we are "un cool"

Now for my opinion, We do not need to have a "buddy" with us in the car where ever that idea came about. Also a 99D sounds a bit odd to me but with the way things are it would not surprise me. This idea of checking up on cartell is a load of ****e too, You wont find out if it is an offical car. BUT........call to your local station not RING and explain what happend and ask the garda to do a check. Explain that if it was an offical car that you have no problem but if it is not you wish to make a complaint in writing, In other words a statement. As a person saying they are a garda when they are not just gets my blood boilin. I dont think it was a offical car but I may be wrong.

And as for us standing on the side of the road with a speed gun, That is our job. If we get a call we drop the speed gun and go but stop ranting becasue that is part of our job too " would ya look at the f e cking arse of a garda, why cant he go and get slove real crime" Our job is also to enforce the law and road user have to obey the law to, speeding is also a crim and the way the deat count is going up, you would not think it.

My msg

Either support us or stop ranting. As normal a good question turned into a garda bash by a few.

well said. And a 99 reg isnt that unusual, in santry theres one of those camarys and also an older v6 mondeo too. its not as easy to spot the cars anymore with the variety thats being brought in. there is a red stilo about with one ariel.and there is mercs and focus and mondeo STs too.
A garda car wont always use sirens either as people to do stupid things when they hear the sirens. in my experience the sirens are blasted on approaching a junction and then turned off once through it. no need to let the whole world know the car is on the way.
And people need to stop with the line of ".....doing somebody for 85 in an 80 zone.....", that doesnt happen. in 99% of cases you wont get done doing less then 10kph more then the limit, i.e. 60 in a 50, 70 in a 60, 90 in a 80. this is because speedos are not calibrated correctly and also its impossible to gauge your speed to within 3kph as clocks are messured in 5's or 10's. and even if you where caught at 5kph over, its still over the limit. at the end of the day if people are allowed to go over by 5kph the limit is effectivly raised and then people will complain that they were "only" 6 and 7 and 8 over. a line needs to be drawn somewhere.