Why are Toyota's so popular in Ireland

semi

I agree this reliability thing is blown out of proportion. Toyotas are very well screwed together - but from the cheapest possible materials. Open the bootlid on a current Avensis saloon and watch as it goes 'boing' up and down on its cheap spring mechanism like a jack-in-the-box. You can bend it with one hand it's so light. I had a (current style) Vectra before the Avensis (both gone now) and in comparison the quality of materials used on the Opel was much higher. But these materials weren't as solidly screwed together as the cheaper ones used in the Avensis... if that makes sense. Toyota make much of their 'best built cars in the world reputation' but when you're on the motorway in a 1.6 Avensis and your ears and the rev counter are telling you that you're in 3rd gear, but your actually in fifth, you realise the slogan refers to a very narrow part of the overall ownsership experience. I really hated that car! The suspension wasn't great, it wasn't particualrly quiet, it was bog slow but the engine loved to rev (not that it made any appreciable difference - you may as well have been in neutral) and when you looked around the Cabin (apart from the dashboard) it was very hard to see where the progress was from an 80's Carina II. A case of successful marketing over substance I think.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Well TBH it did sound like you are a being a pr!ck, I picked the corolla over many of the cars I could afford to insure which included VW Golf, Polo, Punto's, Ibiza's, Starlet's, Alfa's amongst others because I really like how the car felt while driving it!!
I am big into my cars and my next car hopefully will be either a Toyota Levin or an Integra Type R. The Corolla's steering is responsive and very responsive at that!! From the time I set foot into my car when I was looking at it I wanted it, I drove I would imagine about 10-15 other corolla's and the one I picked stood out from the start, it had more power in it even tho it was the same engine, the steering and brakes were more responsive. The interior isn't the may west looks wise but being able to position the drivers seat up, down, forward, back and have it exactly the way to suit your needs and still maintain its comfortness even on long journeys is great.
As for the nippy aspect the corolla was a big step up from driving a really old micra so yes it is nippy, but not as nippy as the iintegra type R i drive most of the time but from a sensable point of view I was not going from a 1 Litre to a 1.8 litre car so I got something in between so I could learn how to control the power that cars put out evenly rather than kill myself driving an overpowered car with little road experience etc.

I don't wish to get involved in an argument here but whilst you obviously enjoy your Corolla I'd like to point out:-

Any Corollas steering and suspension are class avarage at best, and suited to comfort over handling. That probably suits poorly made/maintained Irish road surfaces. They cannot be claimed to be the best handling cars in their class.

All Corolla (and every other manufacturers) 1.4 or whatever engines are the same. Mass produced. Identical. No one is in any way appreciably faster, smoother, nor any more economical. Nippy it isn't. Adequate it is. Ditto comments regarding brakes and steering. They are all the same. Perhaps your car had newer parts?

ShiverinEskimo

ned78 wrote:

Under 60 grand you say? I present the following non boring cars for your perusal :

MINI Cooper S
Golf GTi
Honda Civic Type R
Lexus IS250
BMW 325i
Ariel Atom
BMW Z4

All much higher priced than your bog standard Toyota, and many only more expensive because of a higher spec on the same boring car. You're telling me a 3 series beamer is non-boring? Just cause its a 2.5 instead of a 1.6 or 1.8 doesn't make the car non-boring. Its still a 3 series. Maybe I'd take an M3. But still its nothing overly worth gettin excited about.

IMO a non-boring car is one you don't see too often. 3 series, civic, Mini, Golf..come on they are everywhere and are boring. Just like Toyota. But the Toyota is cheap and as reliable as any of the above.

Kimbot

Henry Ford III wrote:

I don't wish to get involved in an argument here but whilst you obviously enjoy your Corolla I'd like to point out:-

Any Corollas steering and suspension are class avarage at best, and suited to comfort over handling. That probably suits poorly made/maintained Irish road surfaces. They cannot be claimed to be the best handling cars in their class.

All Corolla (and every other manufacturers) 1.4 or whatever engines are the same. Mass produced. Identical. No one is in any way appreciably faster, smoother, nor any more economical. Nippy it isn't. Adequate it is. Ditto comments regarding brakes and steering. They are all the same. Perhaps your car had newer parts?

Ah no argument going on mate!!

Well I had my Corolla on the rolling road for a laugh with a group of others not too long ago as they all thought there was something strange about it!!

It ran out with the following:
102.7BHP
105 Torque

The stats for the corolla out of the factory are:
96/97BHP
95/96Torque

I have standard Brakes in it from its last full service from toyota and nothing newer with the steering its all original parts in the car bar the clutch!!
When I said nippy I meant for its class alright!!

Omnipresence

Henry Ford III wrote:

Ermmm no.

€40000 will buy you a new car with power, style, handling, and a degree of rarity and exclusivity.

p.s. Toyotas are well made, tough and reliable. Most are devoid of personality however.

Yup for a toyota with personality just go for their lexus brand..

The older IS200 is a top favourite car of mine... the newer IS250 hasn't grown on me yet...

Total respect to toyota though, for the average person who just wants a car, not a statement or penis extention then fair play they build the most important feature for these people... reliability..

-A

unkel

maidhc wrote:

a Mondeo TD and Focus TDCi, which most will agree handle and drive as well , if not better, than any BMW. So I have an idea how a car can drive

Both the Focus and the Mondeo are well driving cars. In their class. I don't think I ever saw an owner claim they drive better than any BMW though

Take those pink glasses off now and spit out those magic mushrooms!

knifey_spoonie

ned78 wrote:

Queue someone who's never spend any length of time in a Beamer. There's a reason people who drive BMW's find it hard to go to any other marque (Hint : It's not because of the badge). Build quality, handling, rear wheel drive, cabin design, cabin materials, a silent drive at 70mph, and the most advanced technology you can buy (When last did you see Night Vision, or Heads Up Display offered on a Toyota).

I think you may be forgetting one simple fact that maybe toyota dont fill there cars full of technology, but BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Ah no argument going on mate!!

Well I had my Corolla on the rolling road for a laugh with a group of others not too long ago as they all thought there was something strange about it!!

It ran out with the following:
102.7BHP
105 Torque

The stats for the corolla out of the factory are:
96/97BHP
95/96Torque

I have standard Brakes in it from its last full service from toyota and nothing newer with the steering its all original parts in the car bar the clutch!!
When I said nippy I meant for its class alright!!

I'd ask for a refund from the rolling road. They are always optimistic. Honestly.

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Both the Focus and the Mondeo are well driving cars. In their class. I don't think I ever saw an owner claim they drive better than any BMW though

I'll rephrase, "every bit as good as 99% of the BMWs on Irish Roads"



As for those who say BMW make more technically advanced cars than Toyota?
Don't forget Hybrid. Although it isn't my cup of tea, there is no denying does more to further automotive engineering than HUDs or extra shiny lights.

unkel

knife_fighter wrote:

BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

BMW build the best engines in the world. Tiny engines excluded.

BoozyBabe

jonny24ie wrote:

Well I'm not the only one to say it about my car (My step dad who drives a Lexus IS200) says the steering is great in my car and even better so than his own and any car he has owned before which were Mazda's, Citreon's and he got a new car every year!!
I just like how the car handles on the roads, how its nippy but not overly so if you get what I mean and the comfort sitting inside it!!

I hear ya!!!

I've had a lot of fussy people sit behind the wheel of all my cars, & they've had big faults on all of them.
They got into my Toyota & couldn't fault it:- again steering was mentioned, really has lovely steering, seats are SO comfy, it's a smooth ride, it's quiet, I like how it handles corners, it's pretty nippy, it's just great all round.
It's 4 years old & there's not the slightest rattle from it.
Call me boring, but I love the look of it too.

One fault, & maybe you can tell me if it's just my car:- the radio reception's crap!!! (Now, I'm a long way from Dublin, but compared to other cars, the reception is lousy)

Oh yea, & my one dislike:- when driving on the motorway (which I don't get to do V often), though it's still incredibly quiet, you do get the feeling it needs another gear)

Another question:- how much do you reckon for a new clutch & fitted?
(The wear was done before I got it, promise!!!)

andrew_ireland

3,626,087 Hiace drivin' knackers can't be wrong:)

Kimbot

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'd ask for a refund from the rolling road. They are always optimistic. Honestly.

Well why ask for a refund when the rolling road that it was ran on is the most acurate in the country??

Kimbot

BoozyBabe wrote:

One fault, & maybe you can tell me if it's just my car:- the radio reception's crap!!! (Now, I'm a long way from Dublin, but compared to other cars, the reception is lousy)

Mine is excellent, I drove to Galway/Cork and a few other far out places and was still able to pick up the likes of Spin1038 and FM104 and 98FM!!
I used to go to Longford a lot in it and Spin would only go when I got into the town!! It could be your aerial connection is dirty or a loose connection of some kind.

jtiernan

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Amen. Anything car worth less than say 60 grand is boring at this stage. Mercs/Beamers/Golfs/Toyotas/Nissans. All popular, all boring.

Ferraris, Bentleys, Aston Martins, all the big manufacturers - not boring.

Affordable cars are boring (except classic minis ) - but you may as well get your money's worth and some reliability and buy a Toyota (and not a classic mini )

mate are you seriously putting a beamer in the same category as a nissan etc.

Anan1

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

IMO a non-boring car is one you don't see too often. 3 series, civic, Mini, Golf..come on they are everywhere and are boring. Just like Toyota. But the Toyota is cheap and as reliable as any of the above.

Perhaps you mean boring to look at? We mean boring to drive.

maidhc

Anan1 wrote:

Perhaps you mean boring to look at? We mean boring to drive.

I would have thought both.

TBH any modern car is more or less the same. They are all so brilliant at what they do there just isn't going to be much fun in the driving department unless it is stupidly fast.

Vegeta

Toyota are popular becuse they get the job done.

For those of you who say most modern cars are just as reliable, i have had 6 cars blah blah blah you obviously have not done over 250k in each car so you cant really comment on long term reliability.

My older brother had a focus and it was also solid as a rock and lovely to drive.
My younger brother had a citreon saxo and it fell to pieces.
My third brother had a sir civic and it was an amazing car. It was bomb proof and was incredibly fast for a 1.6

BMWs are one of the blandest car out there, the E30 era are class but nowadays they do nothing for me. I'd buy any new Honda before i'd buy a BMW

Owen

knife_fighter wrote:

I think you may be forgetting one simple fact that maybe toyota dont fill there cars full of technology, but BMW still have to buy the 1.4 D4D diesel from toyota to put into the mini.

Not anymore. Market reseach said that MINI Customers were very disappointed in the 1.4 lump, so in fact the MINI One D has been discontinued as a product until the new Peugeot/MINI engines are out in December.

Your argument is also flawed in that BMW looked at how many MINI One D's they'd sell, versus the cost of developing a whole engine just for oen model. The price was astronomical, and without merit. The toyota engine was chosen because a) it fit in the engine bay b) initial market research said that diesel drivers weren't worried about driving dynamics, only mpg. When trends shifted, the Toytota engine was exposed for what it was.

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

Well why ask for a refund when the rolling road that it was ran on is the most acurate in the country??

According to whom?

Vegeta

ned78 wrote:

When trends shifted, the Toytota engine was exposed for what it was.

and what is that exactly?

Kimbot

Henry Ford III wrote:

According to whom?

By most of the cars' owners that go there and have be proved to have stats standard. The GF brought her standard integra type R on the day with nothing done to it and it ran standard figures!!

Owen

Vegeta wrote:

and what is that exactly?

Soul-less.

knifey_spoonie

unkel wrote:

BMW build the best engines in the world. Tiny engines excluded.

That maybe ture but have BMW ever won the best engine award 3 years running

Vegeta

ned78 wrote:

Soul-less.

oh i thought it would have been un-economical or unreliable.

Funny when people ask for an economical and reliable disease-el they are shocked when its "soul-less"

DukeDredd

ned78 wrote:

Not anymore. Market reseach said that MINI Customers were very disappointed in the 1.4 lump, so in fact the MINI One D has been discontinued as a product until the new Peugeot/MINI engines are out in December.

Your argument is also flawed in that BMW looked at how many MINI One D's they'd sell, versus the cost of developing a whole engine just for oen model. The price was astronomical, and without merit. The toyota engine was chosen because a) it fit in the engine bay b) initial market research said that diesel drivers weren't worried about driving dynamics, only mpg. When trends shifted, the Toytota engine was exposed for what it was.

Could we please have some evidence of all this "BMW said this/decided to do that"? Just because you work for them doesn't mean we should take your word for it.

ned78 wrote:

Soul-less.

How is that BMW soul factory doing?

Owen

DukeDredd wrote:

Could we please have some evidence of all this "BMW said this/decided to do that"? Just because you work for them doesn't mean we should take your word for it.

Nope. If you want written evidence, it's non existant. You'll have to take my word for it.

css

Ned78 you come across as a typical brain washed BMW driving muppet. I've three questions for you:

What BMW do you drive?

How much did it cost to buy new?

How much did your last service cost?


Personally I find the inside of BMW's dull, black and boring. They are a good drive, but comparing them to a Toyota you have to take the above into account.

Technology? How much does a HUD or infra-red system cost as an option?

If you are going to spend the kind of money a new BMW will set you back, and want to call it a 'drivers car', why not buy an Evo or something that actually IS a drivers car?

Henry Ford III

jonny24ie wrote:

By most of the cars' owners that go there and have be proved to have stats standard. The GF brought her standard integra type R on the day with nothing done to it and it ran standard figures!!

The Integra is probably a little down on power

Nobody will say a dyno is optimistic, as they've paid money to have their egos massaged!

unkel

knife_fighter wrote:

That maybe ture but have BMW ever won the best engine award 3 years running

They've won every single year since the conception of the award for large petrol engines. With a win in at least 2 categories every year. No other manufacturer has had even 1 category win every single year

If you only take cars > 2.0 liters, BMW has won the vast majority of all awards single-handedly

Impressive stats, don't you agree?