England - Portugal before/during/after.

applehunter

England were ordinary like they have been since the opening game.

No loss to the tournament.

zAbbo

zaph wrote:

It's his nickname in Sweden. I think the first time it became known in Britain was when Tord Grip mentioned it in an interview.

Pronounced Svenis(as in penis).

Uncanny resemblance as well.

mike65

Rio hugged Ronaldo after the dust settled.

Mike.

spockety

musician wrote:

lol at Bill to Souness at the end of RTE's coverage - "people thought you were anti-Irish" and lol to Apres Match beating the crap out of the Bud fellas.

What about Souness reply!

"Well Bill, anyone who knows my background will know that I am related to Dickie Rock"..!!

*lol*

eirebhoy

zabbo wrote:

And when you watch the sending off incident again, you'll see the ref sends him off for the Ronaldo push, which is a little sad imo.

SSN confirmed a few minutes ago that he was sent off for the stamp.

btw - Ronaldo won't be with United next season so he has nothing to worry about.

Nalced_irl

eirebhoy wrote:

btw - Ronaldo won't be with United next season so he has nothing to worry about.

Thats not definate yet is it?

Anyway, the quality of penalties seems to have really gone to the dogs since the early/mid 90s. Remeber the days when you tried to burst the back of the net with a penalty and even if the keeper went the right way, he would struggle to get enough behind it? These days, players try to place them too much and unless you get it spot on, the keeper has a great chance if he picks the right side. Bring back the days when shootouts ended 5-4 or 6-5.

eirebhoy

Nalced_irl wrote:

Thats not definate yet is it?

Graham Hunter said there's no chance of Ronaldo staying at Man U next season and I trust him.

Big Nelly

spockety wrote:

What about Souness reply!

"Well Bill, anyone who knows my background will know that I am related to Dickie Rock"..!!

*lol*

Is Souness npot going to be on anymore? seemed to be saying good bye. Would be a loss he is very good pundit! terrible manager thou!

Big Nelly

See interview with Sven, Gareth crooks saying they didnt deserve to lose the game. Not sure what game he was watching!

fade2black

Big Nelly wrote:

See interview with Sven, Gareth crooks saying they didnt deserve to lose the game. Not sure what game he was watching!

Not sure what game you were watching. I thought they played really well with 10 men. They all worked hard. Crouch looked awful but he aint an aout and out striker and his presence just proved that Sven made an awful decision leaving Defoe at home. England will be happy to see him go but the Joker that's waiting in the wings is just as bad.

Chucky the tree

fade2black wrote:

Not sure what game you were watching. I thought they played really well with 10 men. They all worked hard. .

They worked hard and did well with 10 men. But i wouldnt say they didnt deserve to lose it.

spockety

Usually the team that "deserves" to win, wins. To deserve a victory, you have to put more balls in your opponents net than they put in yours, simple as that. England failed to take advantage of a crap Portugal team, because they themselves were not good enough. Or to be more precise, their Manager is not good enough.

cooker3

I think on balance on it England slightley deserved it but both teams were mediocre so not saying much.

I have to credit to Ricardo, he performed fantastically in penalty shoot-out and won it for them.

Big Nelly

fade2black wrote:

Not sure what game you were watching. I thought they played really well with 10 men. They all worked hard. Crouch looked awful but he aint an aout and out striker and his presence just proved that Sven made an awful decision leaving Defoe at home. England will be happy to see him go but the Joker that's waiting in the wings is just as bad.

Think you where watching the wrong game, when Crouch came on they finally had someone to hold the ball up and he played well from what I seen.

[Jackass]

Wow, for a team with 7 or 8 world class players and the best player in the world in Rooney, they're actually pretty sh*t!!

You'd almost swear they're a bunch of average international players hyped to the sky!!

weird.

Portugal, missing key players and not fully fit players starting fully deserved the win...It's a shame it took them penalties though, they deserved to win in normal time if not extra time.

Rooney red card was a bit harsh and ended any hope England had.

fade2black

Hold up the ball? Every time he got it he fell over it or gave it away.

Big Nelly

fade2black wrote:

Hold up the ball? Every time he got it he fell over it or gave it away.

I thought he done well at holding up the ball and set up a few attacks which Rooney had failed to do when he was on. RTE team seemed to agree with me as well but everyone has different opinions

cooker3

DubGuy wrote:

Wow, for a team with 7 or 8 world class players and the best player in the world in Rooney, they're actually pretty sh*t!!

You'd almost swear they're a bunch of average international players hyped to the sky!!

weird.

Portugal, missing key players and not fully fit players starting fully deserved the win...It's a shame it took them penalties though, they deserved to win in normal time if not extra time.

Rooney red card was a bit harsh and ended any hope England had.

I actually think they have some class players, it's the manager who wasn't first class which I think ultimately cost them

fade2black

Oh RTE agree? Well you must be right so. Anyone who thought Crouch played well today needs their head examined.

Also, Ronney definitely deserved to go. My 2c as they say.

[Jackass]

Cokker3 wrote:

I actually think they have some class players, it's the manager who wasn't first class which I think ultimately cost them

Well, that was deffenatly a major factor..the lack of strikers alone really screwed them with the change of formation and Rooney isn't a goalscorer.

Ashley cole was excellent throughout, I think Rio has lots of dodgy moments, Terry's very good, neville mr.consistant but nothing special, Lampard was very poor although is a good player, Gerrard is very good but had a poor game tonight, Joe cole is one of their best players and was always dangerous, Rooney is excellent but, as I said, not a goalscorer, Crouch is hopeless against a side of any class, Owen is not half the player he used to be, Hargreves average, Carrick good, Walcott who knows? not even sven apperantly...

As a whole though, no Zidanes, Ronaldhino, C.Ronaldo, Ballack etc..

Orizio

England have about 3 world class players,not as many as Argentina,France or Italy imo.Ultimately they have been overhyped,Sven is clueless and its no loss that they are gone.Hopefully Portugal will be kicked out as well soon enough.Over the whole tournament,Portugal deserve to be in the semi.The game was pretty much stalemate imo.

Coming from a Liverpool supporter,that was one of Crouch's better performances imo.Held the ball up well and tried really hard.A Cole,Lennon and Hargreves were also all excellent.

mike65

fade2black you really will have to get this Anti-Crouch business sorted in your own head. He was great in a thankless roll. He actualy got the ball and kept it and laid it off when he could which clearly was'nt as often as he'd have liked as he was isolated by the 4-4-1 formation while he was on.

Mike.

Tusky

Orizio wrote:

England have about 3 world class players,not as many as Argentina,France or Italy imo.Ultimately they have been overhyped,Sven is clueless and its no loss that they are gone.Hopefully Portugal will be kicked out as well soon enough.Over the whole tournament,Portugal deserve to be in the semi.The game was pretty much stalemate imo.

Coming from a Liverpool supporter,that was one of Crouch's better performances imo.Held the ball up well and tried really hard.A Cole,Lennon and Hargreves were also all excellent.

Three world class players ? Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Beckham, Owen, Carragher, Terry....I could go on.

Lemlin

fade2black wrote:

Oh RTE agree? Well you must be right so. Anyone who thought Crouch played well today needs their head examined.

Also, Ronney definitely deserved to go. My 2c as they say.

You can add me to that list so - and a few lads who watched it with me. Crouch was the best English player towards the end of the second half. He did a great job holding up the ball and winning it in the air.

I don't rate him as an international striker but I thought he did well today.

Keyzer

England are out because of the manager.
He clearly hasnt a clue what he´s doing. Bringing walcott and owen was a huge mistake, should have brought bent and defoe.
Playing players who clearly aren´t fit, playing useless players (beckham should have beed dropped agaes ago) etc etc.

I thought that a national manager looks at his squad and says "how am i going to get them to replicate their club form for national form". Lampard is a quality player yet he had a crap world cup, same with stevie g. Sven should have been looking to let both of those players play as close to their "club" type game as possible.

In the end imo its svens fault.
Having said that, I did have a smile on my face when they got knocked out.

P.S C Ronaldo wont be playing in england after tonights carry on.

Lemlin

What exactly did Ronaldo do that was so wrong? According to reports, he wants to go to Madrid anyway.

PeadarofAodh

This loss has to be on Eriksson's head, not anybody else's. Simply unbelievable that a manager would repeat a formation like today's after seeing it fail miserably against Ecuador, a team who lacked any sort of cohesion in a stolid match. If he'd have had any balls he would've dropped Lampard after two games and replaced him with Carrick and wouldn't have even started Beckham for the World Cup (All he did today was fall over and call for fouls that never were!)

Feel bad for Walcott but he should never have been on the plane to Germany, Defoe and Bent were crying out for a place!

England may have been overhyped but nobody can really say they don't have the players for it, if they'd had someone like Scolari as coach they might well have deserved to be called Cup contenders. Make that 44 years of hurt...

d22ontour

Tusky wrote:

Three world class players ? Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Beckham, Owen, Carragher, Terry....I could go on.

Gerrard yes
Lampard no
Rooney yes
Beckham not these days
Carragher lmfao @ that.Two good seasons out of how many for liverpool ? He was a utility player ala Phil Neville because he wasn't up to the task at a set position consistantly.
Terry no.

Rikand

Lemlin wrote:

You can add me to that list so - and a few lads who watched it with me. Crouch was the best English player towards the end of the second half. He did a great job holding up the ball and winning it in the air.

I don't rate him as an international striker but I thought he did well today.

Well yes!

He did very well...... by his standards!

county

sick as fcuk,Ronaldo will not play one more game for utd

Big Nelly

county wrote:

sick as fcuk,Ronaldo will not play one more game for utd

Why??????

Huggles

county wrote:

sick as fcuk,Ronaldo will not play one more game for utd

Didn't think so tbh.

Keyzer

Big Nelly wrote:

Why??????

Well, I cant see rooney speaking to him again let alone wanting to play with him, therefore Ferguson will take rooneys side cos he loves him.

Ergo, Ronaldo gone.... Good riddance as well cos he´s over stated and a diving buffoon.

Sad to see Brazil go out but I thought the French were brilliant, Zizou deserves it....

Big Nelly

Keyzer wrote:

Well, I cant see rooney speaking to him again let alone wanting to play with him, therefore Ferguson will take rooneys side cos he loves him.

Ergo, Ronaldo gone.... Good riddance as well cos he´s over stated and a diving buffoon.

Sad to see Brazil go out but I thought the French were brilliant, Zizou deserves it....

They are professionals or supposed to be, it will be all forgotten. I know I don't like everyone where I work but I don't go to the manager to get them sacked

mike65

I just caught the last line of a news report suggesting Portugese/England bother in






























Jersey!

Mike.

DOLEMAN

DubGuy wrote:

Wow, for a team with 7 or 8 world class players and the best player in the world in Rooney, they're actually pretty sh*t!!

Being sarcastic?

Please tell me you're being sarcastic!!

They have no players who are world class at international level.

adox

Just read this quote from Rio Ferdinand after the match:

"It wasn't as one-sided but it was almost like the FA Cup final against Arsenal."

tdv

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/tdv123/114afhh.jpg

MisterAnarchy

Tusky wrote:

Three world class players ? Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Beckham, Owen, Carragher, Terry....I could go on.

I'm getting sick of hearing this statement 'World Class Player'
Its something that has crept in over the last 2-3 years and it seems to be attributed to nearly every English player.

zAbbo

We've been conned by Sky Sports into thinking how good some of these English players really are.

I've gone through the 11 players, and they are all good players, key players for their teams.

How on earth have they played so badly?

When it comes down to it, collectively as a team they aren't good enough.

casanova_kid

England were never a team worthy of their favourite tags. Think of the last time they really played well together in a competitive match and i'd have to go back to Denmark in 2002 World Cup. People were considering them favourites because of the reputation of a number of their players, but as a team they'd never done it.

Guy:Incognito

zabbo wrote:

How on earth have they played so badly?

3 words, 1 man. Clue: his initials are SGE.

The worst thing is tha tI cant see McLaren doing much different as he doesnt seem to have been able/ didnt see what needed to be done.

Attractive Nun

I agree that the talent of the English players is exagerrated. Of their 10 more or less guaranteed starters:

Robinson - average 'keeper at best. Only David James' presence as no.2 keeps him comfortable in the no.1 spot
Neville - dependable and solid, but not spectacular defensively and pretty average offensively
Ferdinand - underrated defender I think, but prone to error
Terry - dogged, likeable and determined, but his talents are exagerrated by such a defensively strong Chelsea team
A Cole - excellent fullback on his day, but rarely has the spark of the world's best fullbacks
J Cole - Superb player in general, but his game is very one dimensional. Doesn't have the pace or crossing ability for a genuine winger.
Lampard - Generally a good player, one of Europe's best attacking midfielders. But needs to be accomodated .
Gerrard - One of the world's best midfielders
Beckham - Terrific set piece player, mind bogglingly poor in general play
Rooney - Wildly overhyped, but an excellent player in a specific role, although he probably doesn't get enough goals.

They are all players who play very specific roles for their clubs, and do it very well. But their talents, as we have seen, obviously do not fit together and translate into a good international team.

PeadarofAodh

Attractive Nun wrote:

I agree that the talent of the English players is exagerrated. Of their 10 more or less guaranteed starters:

Robinson - average 'keeper at best. Only David James' presence as no.2 keeps him comfortable in the no.1 spot
Neville - dependable and solid, but not spectacular defensively and pretty average offensively
Ferdinand - underrated defender I think, but prone to error
Terry - dogged, likeable and determined, but his talents are exagerrated by such a defensively strong Chelsea team
A Cole - excellent fullback on his day, but rarely has the spark of the world's best fullbacks
J Cole - Superb player in general, but his game is very one dimensional. Doesn't have the pace or crossing ability for a genuine winger.
Lampard - Generally a good player, one of Europe's best attacking midfielders. But needs to be accomodated .
Gerrard - One of the world's best midfielders
Beckham - Terrific set piece player, mind bogglingly poor in general play
Rooney - Wildly overhyped, but an excellent player in a specific role, although he probably doesn't get enough goals.

They are all players who play very specific roles for their clubs, and do it very well. But their talents, as we have seen, obviously do not fit together and translate into a good international team.

Thats a shockingly unfair estimation in my opinion. What you're doing is trying to camouflage your over-zealous criticism with a pinch of complimentary sentences. The buck stops with Eriksson for me. With the exception of Beckham, I think the team is right- it just has the wrong hand guiding it.

Attractive Nun

PeadarofAodh wrote:

Thats a shockingly unfair estimation in my opinion. What you're doing is trying to camouflage your over-zealous criticism with a pinch of complimentary sentences. The buck stops with Eriksson for me. With the exception of Beckham, I think the team is right- it just has the wrong hand guiding it.

I do agree that it is a very strong team, certainly a semi-final team at least, and that the blame for not getting that far lies with SGE. Indeed, I think it was really just luck they got as far as they did. But I still think the team was massively overhyped. Looking through the above teamsheet, there are dozens of players that are at least at a similar level to the English in almost every position.

Robinson: Even in just the EPL, Cech, Van Der Saar, Lehmann, Given, Reina - I could go on...
Neville: Cicinho, Cafu, Miquel, Sagnol, Zambrotta, Ferreira, Burdisso, Ramos, Eboue, Finnan?
Ferdinand/Terry: Marquez, Nesta, Cannavaro, Gallas, Carvalho, Luque, Toure, Puyol, Thuram

I'm bored now, but you get the point. I don't deny that the English have talent, but even aside from Eriksson's management, they aren't near as good as the world beaters they were made out to be.

elvis2002

world class. I dont think England have any world class players. People like Zidane are world class players. Who do England have? Rooney? He's a good player but he scores in what, one from every 5 games? When he plays against good oposition which is not Charlton every week he's marked out of the game like Carvalho did today with him. Beckham is a joke ! Thats the only word for him. No wonder Real Madrid havent won nothing in 3 years.

Also this thing about Ronaldo never be able to return to England. I see it the other way tbh. Rooney should never be allowed to return. He's a disgrace. Beckham got such harsh treatment for the nothing kick that got him sent off. I expect worse for Rooney but I doubt it will happen because newspapers like the Sun will ignore it and just use Ronaldo as the scapegoat.

Its laughable now considering how many times we've heard during this tournament from beckham and co, 'There can be no excuses this time'.

I've got one for them. Your an over hyped team who've never performed.

Jazzy

england in my opinion just had no creation. they relied too much on impact players. they hope enough impact happens between certain players and then *goal*.
they have no one that can break down a game and keep possestion and create. carrick is too inexperianced at the world stage to be this man although he seems to be englands best prospect for such a role. put someone like alonso on the team and they would click alot better. 4-5-1 with no creative touch ? (cha' right hargreaves... john o shea of the bundesliga) what was sven expecting ? a 4-4-2 with carrick and gerrard in the centre could and imo would have won last night. lamps was on holiday this whole cup, he played better then gerrard in the portugal game, but that aint saying much.

sven didnt want to drop any stars cos frankly he didnt know how to handle his posistion anymore, FAR too much pressure and pandering... he was lost by the end, as proven by his "outburst" two days ago. McClaren wont be different, he'll be another surrender monkey to the "Chaps" (the england team media... not nice ppl at all... very closed off and secular).

If england want to do well in major competition then they need to learn ball retention and creation. play your foward passes right, be relaxed yet comfortable at the back, work as a unit. as it is they are always looking for that killer pass, that ball that will win them the game. they looked ordinary against ecuador and although they showed determination with 10 men, they ultimately were the poorer side on the day.

they need to stop finding a blame and analise the actual style of play and performances

Lemlin

Fair play to Owen Hargreaves. May have played himself into the England starting 11 and has definitely shut up the English tabloids.

adox

elvis2002 wrote:

world class. I dont think England have any world class players. People like Zidane are world class players. Who do England have? Rooney? He's a good player but he scores in what, one from every 5 games? When he plays against good oposition which is not Charlton every week he's marked out of the game like Carvalho did today with him.

I think you are being a little unfair on Rooney.He is a world class player imo.
You mention Zidane who of course is,and has been a world class player for years but he has only performed to a reasonable standard in the last two games.
He was a liability to the French team in the group games.Are you going to make judgement on him over those particular games like ou are doing with Rooney?

Rooney still isnt fully match fit and was being played in a ridiculous system which was always going to nullify or dampen his impact ona game.I think you give Carvalho too mush credit.He was marked out of the game by the back four as he had no support.

England with a fully fit Rooney and a manager who knew what he was doing would have had a realistic chance of winning the world cup.
There havent been any really outstanding teams in this years world cup,well none that are stillin the competition.I thought Spain and Argentina looked a class above everybody else but they are both gone home.

Of the four teams left we have Germany who have improved with every game but still look very vunerabe at the back and only have one or two world class players at best.Italy have been workman like but seem lacking up front and to a lesser extent in midfield.

Portugal showed yesterday that they are no great shakes but have two or three players that can change a game,and finally France a group of ageing players who have ony performed in the last two games over the last six years.

Sure the English media go over the top with the team but we are in danger here of going the complete opposite way here because of it.

adox

Anyone watching Beckhams press conference? I couldnt stop laughing.
Saying that he was going to read out a statement that he wrote late last night and wouldne be answering any questions.

As he started reading the statement in a crocky voice,nearly crying,I though well at least hes doing the decent thing and retiring from international football and I`m sure hes quite upset about it.

But no,whats the big statement about? Hes decided to hand over the captaincy to someone else but continue playing for England.

What a joke.The soap opera that has been Beckham for the last few years continues.

I`ll sayone thing for him.He sure knows how to spin. :nod: