NRARI, Announcement

Sparks

How about something positive?

Well, the NRAI's sending a team to Bisley on July 20 for the Imperial match, that's a positive thing, right? The F-Class League has concluded, results are here.
I'd post about the upcoming ISSF World Championships and the Irish Team (made up completely from Wilkinstown shooters), but I'd only trigger a query from Leupold or someone else on whether or not the NTSA and Wilkinstown are sufficently seperate for the NTSA to constitute an NGB...

Leupold

Leupold wrote:

In summary, this thread has become too convoluted and boring for all concerned. It has become another Sparks versus the world. This forum could be a wonderful way of circulating information and publicizing the sport in general but your major achievement is to turn it into a tool of division. Most regular readers of the forum will know that the only possible motivation for you to post so regularly , apart from your evident bias against the SSAI . is that you seem to like the attention. If it was not for the fact that many readers of the forum have no other source of information about the wider world of shooting in Ireland no one would post to feed your desire for visibility. Unfortunately, as much of what you say is so wrong or heavily biased, people feel it a duty to put the record straight. We should know better and leave you to wither on the vine.

I have finished with this thread as you seem to be losing the run of yourself but you forgot to critique the rest of the last paragraph. I thought it would be nice to put it up again in case you missed it.

Sparks

Wander away as far as you like Leupold, I see no reason to entertain ad hominem arguments when the fact remains that you have neither logic nor facts on your side, and all can see that you have a very strong pro-LRRAI bias. I also notice that you still haven't said if you're in either the NRPAI or LRRAI committees.

Leupold

Sparks wrote:

Actually, anyone who reads all your posts will find a clear pro-LRRAI, anti-NRAI agenda - literally, you have almost no other posts in the entire time you've been here - expressed with an amount of spin that would make most people laugh. You've claimed that the NRAI is arrogant, you've taken posters in here as posting for them even after they specifically state they're not, you make arguements based on posters' spelling or other ad hominem approaches, you engage in a variety of logic that seems entirely predicated on the assumption that you are infalliable, you flip-flop between saying that the shooters are the important ones to saying that the associations have to be the ones to decide things, and you only take time out to damn plinkers and shooters who shoot at silhouette and reactive targets!

To finally close down this thread, your statements above are nothing other than ad hominem arguments(therefore you are a hypocrite) and I am not a member of either the LRRAI or SSAI(formerly NRPAI) committees. Clearly you are rattled.

Leupold

Bye for now Sparks. See you again when my dislike of your crude propoganda overcomes my unwillingness to give you more visibility.

DDLR

LoL Bye! Please dont hurry back

micah

thank goodness for a voice of reason - feel free to return at anytime leupold.:)

Sparks

micah (aka mifyah1, aka ogam, aka waggawagga), those accounts are banned. Ogam's account is to be unbanned in a week following his earlier ban for being highly uncivil.

Sparks

And for Leupold's (and others) reading pleasure, an email from the NRPAI on the LRRAI/NRPAI link:

I can confirm the LRRAI are not a federated member of the SSAI. The LRRAI have requested a meeting to make a presentation to the SSAI at which they intend to present their aims and objectives. The SSAI committee will then review that proposal and seek a solution that will best suit the interests of shooters.

Sparks

I'll also highlight for the sake of people knowing who's arguing for what, that appauled and notsurprised, are in fact sock puppets for LRPC 2003, the Leinster Rifle and Pistol Club. Given that the LRPC is currently fundraising for the NRPAI, I think that raises some interesting questions.

Sparks

Leupold wrote:

To finally close down this thread, your statements above are nothing other than ad hominem arguments(therefore you are a hypocrite)

*sigh*
An ad hominem argument, Leupold, is when you play the man, not the ball.
Since those comments you quoted are not about the issue being discussed here, they're not ad hominem.

Clearly you are rattled.

Perplexed by your agenda, certainly. But why would I be rattled when you are so clearly in the wrong, and everyone else can see it?

Sparks

Kye wrote:

I love the shooting boards, its like a serial everyday there is a new twist.

You know, I've been thinking about this for a few days. It's sad, but you're wrong in one aspect Kye - there aren't any really new twists. It's the same old problems from the same old people, day in, day out. The people haven't changed in the past decade, and the problem's causes haven't changed either. They have become more obvious though, and it boils down, in the end, to this:

The NRPAI, NTSA, NASRC, NSAI, Pony Club, IPSA, NRAI, LRRAI and all the other associations need to always keep in mind two things:
1. They exist to serve shooters.
2. The goal is to promote the sport.

Every time that gets forgotten, something goes horribly awry and there is always an argument as a result. Always. It has always been that way, from long before I was born, and I suspect it'll continue in that vein long after we all shuffle off this mortal coil. Take this NRAI/LRRAI dispute for example. Why are the LRRAI members fighting to take over from the NRAI when the NRAI has international recognition? Why not simply affiliate to them and, that done, concentrate on the shooting? In many ways, this dispute is like a couple of old shooters in the pub arguing for weeks over whether or not Eley makes better ammo than Lapua. If they just went and batch tested, they could solve the question in a month and then spend their time working on the actual shooting itself!

And to forestall Leupold and his ilk, who will say that our arguing on this in here is exactly what I'm saying is a bad thing, I'll say this - don't be prats. For once, don't put your egos first. People are always going to talk about the decisions made in shooting admin when they're affected by them, always. That won't stop if I take a vow of silence, it won't stop if boards.ie was shut down, it won't stop if the Irish Shooters Digest ceases to print reader's letters, it won't stop until there's only one person left in Ireland who shoots! And then he'll be talking to himself anyway! So accept that people will talk, and actually be open about what you do for once, and listen to your shooters. You might find the complaints stop pretty fast when people are listened to...

LRPC 2003

Sparks wrote:

I'll also highlight for the sake of people knowing who's arguing for what, that appauled and notsurprised, are in fact sock puppets for LRPC 2003, the Leinster Rifle and Pistol Club. Given that the LRPC is currently fundraising for the NRPAI, I think that raises some interesting questions.

Sparks , as per usual you have out done yourself with a completely incorrect statement .

Firstly , The " Sock Puppets " as you call them , Appauled and Not surprised , one and the same person as I understand , are not sign ins for LRPC 2003 , but , the funny thing is that they were set up from LRPC's IP address which is a club laptop available to a number of members . In no instance has he made statements , either for me or LRPC as a club ,and only stated his feelings toward the statement published on this board by the NRAI , which he is fully entitled to do. As for Me , if I do require to put something on Boards .ie , I will do so myself .

Secondly , As usual you get your gripe in about the NRPAI , which by the way is now called the SSAI , whether you like it or not . You have stated that LRPC as a club is fundraising for the SSAI , I dont know where you have got this idea from as we are not . We are however holding a shoot in aid of FLAG which is a totally seperate organisation to the SSAI , but which you also have a gripe with , seeing a definite pattern here :rolleyes:

Given that you didnt bother to check with me , to see about these other log ins from our club computer , but decided in your infinite wisdom :rolleyes: to post this comment about LRPC that is absolutely incorrect , I have been instructed to give you an opportunity to retract your statement .

I await your reply ,

Rod Wilson

Chairman
LRPC

jaycee

Firstly , The " Sock Puppets " as you call them , Appauled and Not surprised , one and the same person as I understand , are not sign ins for LRPC 2003 , but , the funny thing is that they were set up from LRPC's IP address which is a club laptop available to a number of members . In no instance has he made statements , either for me or LRPC as a club ,and only stated his feelings toward the statement published on this board by the NRAI , which he is fully entitled to do. As for Me , if I do require to put something on Boards .ie , I will do so myself .

Hi Rod ,

In all honesty .. I'm not looking to create an argument , just looking for clarification of the highlighted piece above.

Are you saying of the person referred to ,that his statements were without your prior knowledge or consent ...?

I fully support any individual in expressing his /her opinion as long as it is done in an open and truthful manner and that any accusations made be backed up by evidence to support them.

LRPC 2003

jaycee wrote:

Hi Rod ,

In all honesty .. I'm not looking to create an argument , just looking for clarification of the highlighted piece above.

Are you saying of the person referred to ,that his statements were without your prior knowledge or consent ...?

I fully support any individual in expressing his /her opinion as long as it is done in an open and truthful manner and that any accusations made be backed up by evidence to support them.

Jaycee,

I dont know who you are ,perhaps you can tell us , but you can see that I dont need to hide my identity , If I want to make statements here , I will do so , and people will know who I am. If I need to make announcements on behalf of LRPC club , likewise , I will do so , however , unless LRPC or Rod Wilson is named in anything that is posted on Boards .ie under the sign in of LRPC 2003 , I will not be responsible for them .

Rod Wilson.

jaycee

Hi Rod,

long ago I told everyone who I am , so I have no problem with that.
I have often urged people to reveal their name because I can't abide the all to common practice of making slanderous statements while hiding behind a assumed name.
My name is Joe Costello and I am known to several readers of boards.

So...to revisit my question, which was :

Originally Posted by jaycee


Are you saying of the person referred to ,that his statements were without your prior knowledge or consent ...?

Your answer :

unless LRPC or Rod Wilson is named in anything that is posted on Boards .ie under the sign in of LRPC 2003 , I will not be responsible for them .

Fair enough .. I presume I can take that as a yes.

Sparks

LRPC 2003 wrote:

Firstly , The " Sock Puppets " as you call them , Appauled and Not surprised , one and the same person as I understand , are not sign ins for LRPC 2003 , but , the funny thing is that they were set up from LRPC's IP address which is a club laptop available to a number of members.

So they do not speak for you, but speak through a facility you provide. Very well, I can accept this and withdraw the comment that these accounts and yours are the same. However; unless you care to take more care regarding the security of the login details of the LRPC 2003 account, how can we know that this is Rod Wilson posting on behalf of the LRPC, or just any old chap who wanders in, sits down and the club machine and notes that the last person to post in here left themselves logged in by mistake?

the NRPAI , which by the way is now called the SSAI , whether you like it or not.

Again, as I've said before, that wouldn't hold up in court. The NRPAI is the NRPAI, until such time as they hold a properly run AGM at which the NRPAI constitution is adhered to. It's inconvienent, I realise, but it's not a problem of my making.

You have stated that LRPC as a club is fundraising for the SSAI , I dont know where you have got this idea from as we are not . We are however holding a shoot in aid of FLAG which is a totally seperate organisation to the SSAI

Sorry Rod, you've been misinformed. FLAG is not a seperate body from the NRPAI, but was set up under the auspices of the NRPAI and speaks for them to the DoJ and Gardai. I clarified this point with Declan in the past. As such, it is tied to them irrevokably. Otherwise, why would they have any authority to speak to the DoJ for shooters, when no shooter has a vote on who is on the FLAG committee, no shooter has a say in their policies, and they answer to no shooter outside the NRPAI committee?
You are fundraising for the NRPAI Rod, like it or not.

LRPC 2003

Sparks wrote:

So they do not speak for you, but speak through a facility you provide. Very well, I can accept this and withdraw the comment that these accounts and yours are the same. However; unless you care to take more care regarding the security of the login details of the LRPC 2003 account, how can we know that this is Rod Wilson posting on behalf of the LRPC, or just any old chap who wanders in, sits down and the club machine and notes that the last person to post in here left themselves logged in by mistake?

Sparks , there you go again . If they were logged in as LRPC 2003 I would accept your answer , but the fact is that they were logged in as their own seperate account , therefore ,they have no access to the LRPC login or password and it is obvious that they were not Me or LRPC. Just because the IP address is the same , it doesnt mean that the computer is not available to other users , and I would therefore advise you that IP addresses only identify the Computer , not the users .

Sparks wrote:

Again, as I've said before, that wouldn't hold up in court. The NRPAI is the NRPAI, until such time as they hold a properly run AGM at which the NRPAI constitution is adhered to. It's inconvienent, I realise, but it's not a problem of my making.

Same old rant Sparks, were all tired of it at this stage , get over it !

Sparks wrote:

Sorry Rod, you've been misinformed. FLAG is not a seperate body from the NRPAI, but was set up under the auspices of the NRPAI and speaks for them to the DoJ and Gardai. I clarified this point with Declan in the past. As such, it is tied to them irrevokably. Otherwise, why would they have any authority to speak to the DoJ for shooters, when no shooter has a vote on who is on the FLAG committee, no shooter has a say in their policies, and they answer to no shooter outside the NRPAI committee?
You are fundraising for the NRPAI Rod, like it or not.

I dont have a problem with either the SSAI or FLAG , the money raised will go to Shooting Sports through either organisation , and I and LRPC are happy to support both of these organisations and any others that will do good for the sport in general .

Rod Wilson

Sparks

LRPC 2003 wrote:

Sparks , there you go again . If they were logged in as LRPC 2003 I would accept your answer , but the fact is that they were logged in as their own seperate account , therefore ,they have no access to the LRPC login or password and it is obvious that they were not Me or LRPC.

Sorry Rod, but that makes no sense at all. When you log into boards, the website stores a cookie on your PC. The next person who uses that machine, unless you actually log out first, could post in your name and we wouldn't know the difference. That's not an observation that had anything to do with the LRPC/notsurprised/appauled username link, by the way, it's just a general one.

Just because the IP address is the same , it doesnt mean that the computer is not available to other users , and I would therefore advise you that IP addresses only identify the Computer , not the users .

Indeed. And yet, based on postings here, we've already seen legal threats against individuals.

Same old rant Sparks, were all tired of it at this stage , get over it !

You can dismiss it all you wish Rod, but you and I both know that in the end, I'm correct on this. It's easily fixable - it's just that it hasn't been done yet, and that shows a contempt on the part of the NRPAI for it's own rules and members that's troubling. Why you claim noone else is troubled by it, I don't know.

I dont have a problem with either the SSAI or FLAG , the money raised will go to Shooting Sports through either organisation , and I and LRPC are happy to support both of these organisations and any others that will do good for the sport in general .

Then support them and be glad. Just know who the money's going to. And what it's going to be used for.