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Rogue Review

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Some people are saying the complete opposite. :p

    You have to love WoW like that.

    The biggest disappointment is that evisc wont scale with attack power, as it's utterly useless. If you crit evis, you do about 1600 damage, which a dagger rogue would be approaching in a pve situation.

    The only finishers I use in pve anymore are s and d and rupture every now and again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭NeoSlicerZ


    <--has seen 1.9k crit backstabs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Apparently some dude with Death's Sting and Tier 2 crits 2.9k. :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    Some people are saying the complete opposite. :p

    I'd like to see what these people are saying, because its baltently obvious that daggers rogues are getting absolutly nothing new in the talent tree, whereas sword rogues are getting a substansial buff.

    Dagger rogues will do the same damage as before, sword rogues (spec'd properly) will now do more damage then before, and with the swords you can get ingame they were more or less matching dagger rogues before. Its fairly black and white.

    (I'm speaking off the new talent tree which may or may not come into the actual game, I'm assuming (hoping) they'll change it more).

    And I doubt a full teir2 rogue could crit that much as Bloodfang is fairly ****e for pure dmg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Don't shoot the messenger. ;)

    I'm a dagger rogue too, and I don't think we've gained anything at all from this. As it stands, the real test will come when people start raiding after the patch. If the plate rogues are still outdamaging us, there's a serious problem. Having seen what I've seen of the patch, that doesn't seem unlikely...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭Jim


    My opinion has always been that we don't need a buff, they need a nerf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Warriors getting another nerf? :p

    Problem with warriors is the class itself is gimped. Itemised correctly, they're brilliant, but prior to epixxxx the poor ickle warrior is ****e.

    Basic problem with us rogues is our abilities not scaling with gear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Basic problem with us rogues is our abilities not scaling with gear.

    Welcome to the hunter's world. After a short while your pet will never hold aggro if you are actually wearing your best gear. That and we're relegated to be glorified stationary automatic gun drones in most instances once you start raiding. Cycle, cycle, FD, cycle, cycle, cycle etc. Damage we can do, albeit as in a marathon fight not a spring if you get what I mean, but my god is it boring a lot of the time :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Ask for epic pets. :p



    What I don't understand is how Blizz think fixed damage abilities (take eviscerate as an example) or things like pets can remain viable. An unbuffed backstab with a barman shanker used to do about 800 damage or so for me. (critting) With buffs and sunders on a target, that could go up to1200-1400. Evisc crits around 1600 normally. Now if I have good gear, not even silly gear like Death's Sting, let's say a Perdition's, I'll be backstab critting well over 1600 in a raid situation. So why bother with the bloody eviscerate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Rogue notes MkII

    # Remorseless Attacks has been reduced to 2 ranks, with the new effectiveness being 20% and 40%.
    # Murder has been changed to increase damage caused against Humanoid, Giant, Beast, and Dragonkin by 1%/2%.
    # Endurance has been changed to reduce the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 45 sec/1.5 min. It no longer increases the duration of Evasion.
    # Mace Specialization will now also add 1-5 weapon skill with Maces in addition to the stun effect the talent already provides.
    # Weapon Expertise will now increases your skill with Fist, Dagger, and Sword weapons. It no longer affects Maces.
    # Adrenaline Rush now has a reduced cooldown of 5 min.
    # Elusiveness has been reduced to a 2 point talent and now reduces the cooldown of Vanish and Blind by 45 sec/1.5 min. It no longer reduces the cooldown for Evasion.
    # Opportunity is being moved to a tier 1 talent, swapping places with Camouflage.
    # Ghostly Strike has been reverted back to the previous 125% weapon damage, but retains its new Energy cost of 40.
    # Setup will now also provide combo points if you fully resist an attacker’s spell.
    # Improved Rupture, Improved Cheap Shot, and Improved Garrote have been removed.
    # New talent ‘Serrated Blades’ is a tier 4 talent in the Subtlety tree, causes your attacks to ignore X of your target’s Armor, and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level. At level 60, the ranks will reduce target Armor by 100/200/300 respectively.
    # New talent ‘Dirty Deeds’ replaces the Improved Cheap Shot talent. The new talent reduces the Energy cost of both your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 10/20.
    # Garrote, Eviscerate, and Rupture now all scale with Attack Power. An additional book of Eviscerate will still be made available in an undisclosed location.

    http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue-en&t=222650&p=1&tmp=1#post222650

    Some nice changes there. Loving the ghostly strike change and serrated blades. Nice to see evis etc. scale with AP but if I remember correctly some on the EU forums did the maths and it worked out as an extra 15 damage for every 100 AP (could be completly wrong on that as I cant find the thread). Better than not scaling I suppose.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    :D

    And again.

    :D

    Does that say garotte, rupture and evis scale... I think it does... *Giggle*

    Once more. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Yup. You still left pvp behind? Loving Horde pvp on Aerie's... Such a doddle...


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Lol, if you rolled on Kilrogg I bet you'd have it even easier. Horde ALWAYS wins here :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Always happens on normal realms I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    I remember coming up against Bouncer (?) in AB once, with his big shiny Bloodfang helmet etc etc. Killed him, which wasn't easy, but was fairly pleased with myself, but for some epic lock to come in and rape me...

    I shudder to imagine what it would have been like against the guild pre mades all in epics the alliance had...

    Alliance on Aerie Peak have as many rerollers as Horde, so while Horde normally win, every now and then some fantastic Alliance premade will pop up and wipe the floor with inexperienced/unhelpful Horde PuGs. Adds a bit of spice to the proceedings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,560 ✭✭✭Ivan


    Full patch notes from the PTR (which is also up, btw)

    World of Warcraft Public Test Patch 1.12.0

    Cross-Realm Battlegrounds
    - For the first time in the history of World of Warcraft, you will be
    able to face off against players from other realms in the
    Battlegrounds. PvP Battlegrounds link Alterac Valley, Warsong Gulch,
    and Arathi Basin so that players from several realms will be
    combined into one huge matchmaking pool. Replenish your mana,
    sharpen your blades, and get ready for some brand-new challengers!

    World PvP
    - The stage is set for intense, objective-based land battles as Horde
    and Alliance vie for control over important strategic positions and
    resources around Azeroth. Head out for Silithus and Eastern
    Plaguelands to engage the enemy on the field!

    General
    - Threat Reduction Effects
    This system has been redesigned to eliminate inconsistency in how
    the effects work. Previously, some were additive (for example: 30%
    reduction + 20% reduction = 50% reduction) while others were
    multiplicative (30% threat reduction multiplied by 20% threat
    reduction equals 44% threat reduction). They are now all
    multiplicative. This also prevents unpredictable behavior when the
    total reduction percentage was equal to or greater than 100%.
    - Haste and Slow effects
    Previously Haste and Slow effects worked inconsistently, with spells
    working differently from weapons, and hastes and slows not acting as
    inverses of each other. We have revised the system so that all haste
    and slow effects work the same way, and haste and slow percentages
    perfectly cancel each other out (30% haste and 30% slow combine to
    no change). As a result, we had to change the tooltip numbers on all
    spell haste effects, and on all melee and range slow effects. The
    numbers in the tooltips are different, but the game functionality
    is unchanged (other than slight rounding errors). Those tooltips
    that changed will now display larger numbers than they used to
    display. Conceptually, haste values indicate how much more of that
    activity you can perform in a given time. 30% melee haste means 30%
    more swings in a given time. Slow values indicate how much longer an
    activity takes to complete. 30% slow means an action takes 30%
    longer to finish. For those interested, the new haste and slow
    effects work mathematically in the following way. Each effect
    separately multiplies the attack timer of your weapon or casting
    time of your spell. They are multiplied in sequence (order doesn't
    matter) and the final result is the attack timer or casting time.
    The multipliers use the following equations:

    Haste effects: multiplier=1/(1+percent/100)
    Slow effects: multiplier=1*(1+percent/100)

    As an example, a 50% haste generates a multiplier of 0.666; a 50%
    slow generates a multiplier of 1.5. If they are multiplied together
    the result is 1. A 50% haste on a 3.0 speed weapon makes it 2.0
    speed, resulting in you getting 30 swings per minute instead of 20
    swings per minute: 50% more swings. A 50% slow on a 3.0 casting time
    spell generates a casting time of 4.5. It took you 50% longer to
    finish casting the spell.
    - The deserter debuff will now continue to expire even while you are
    offline.

    Druids
    - Barkskin: The tooltip has been changed to 25% due to the haste
    effect change.
    - Ferocious Bite: The Book of Ferocious Bite (Rank 5) now drops
    somewhere in the world.
    - Furor: This talent now works correctly with Cat Form again.
    - Improved Shred: The discounted cost for Shred will now be displayed
    correctly even when you are not in Cat Form.
    - Rip: Lesser potency Rips will no longer overwrite greater potency
    ones.

    Hunters
    - Spirit Bond: This ability will now be correctly reapplied when you
    resurrect in a battleground and your pet is polymorphed or otherwise
    unable to act normally.

    Mages
    - Arcane Missiles: It is no longer possible to cast this spell on an
    evading mob. In addition, the animation will now stop when the
    target is dead.
    - Arcane Power: It is no longer possible to gain the benefit of this
    spell and Power Infusion at the same time by careful timing.
    - Frost Armor Chilled effect: The tooltip has been changed to 100% due
    to the haste effect change.
    - Ice Armor Chilled effect: The tooltip has been changed to 100% due
    to the haste effect change.
    - Polymorph: This spell will now be removed when a player leaves a
    battleground. This prevents some bugs involving polymorph from
    occurring.
    - Evocation will no longer be usable while silenced.

    Paladins
    - Divine Shield: The tooltip has been changed to 100% due to the haste
    effect change.

    Priests

    - Mind Control: The tooltip has been changed to 25% due to the haste
    effect change.
    - Psychic Scream: This spell now uses the same resistance checks as
    the Warlock spell Fear.

    Rogues
    - Due to significant talent changes, Rogues will have all talent
    points refunded and can be respent. Training costs for all talent
    spell replacements have been significantly reduced.
    - Eviscerate: Manual of Eviscerate (Rank 9) now drops somewhere in the
    world.
    - Garrote: The damage from this ability has been increased
    approximately 50%.
    - Relentless Strikes: This ability will no longer trigger when your
    finishing move does not hit your target.
    - Sap: Enemy rogues will now always lose stealth when you Sap them.

    Shaman
    - Grounding Totem: This totem will no longer absorb multiple effects
    from Entrapment in a 10 second period.
    - Windfury Totem: The weapon enchantment from this totem will now only
    trigger off normal melee swings. This means abilities such as
    Sinister Strike, Mortal Strike, and Hamstring will no longer trigger
    the Windfury Totem.
    - Reincarnation should now display the cooldown timer when used.
    - Chain Heal - After the initial target is healed, the healing effect
    will jump to the most damaged target (by absolute health) within
    range. In addition, if a raid member is the initial target it will
    look for valid raid targets to jump to rather than non-raid targets
    as a priority, making it consistent with group targeted Chain Heals.

    Warlocks
    - Cripple (Doomguard): The tooltip has been changed to 45% due to the
    haste effect change.
    - Enslave Demon: The tooltip has been changed to 40% due to the haste
    effect change.
    - Health Funnel: This spell will now work correctly on low-level
    enslaved demons.
    - Howl of Terror: This spell now uses the same resistance checks
    as the Warlock spell Fear.
    - Siphon Life will now properly gain a benefit from Shadow Mastery.

    Warriors
    - Flurry: The text on the tooltip has been corrected to indicate it
    triggers on all types of attacks.
    - Shield Slam: This ability will sometimes no longer remove more than
    one beneficial effect from the target.
    - Sword Specialization: This ability can no longer trigger off of
    itself.

    Items
    - +30 Spell Damage Enchantment: Fixed a bug with this enchantment
    which was preventing it from benefiting healing spells.
    - Blade of Eternal Darkness: The triggered effect from this weapon
    will no longer occur when the spell being cast has its effect broken
    by causing damage.
    - Blazefury Medallion: The triggered effect from this item will no
    longer break Gouge.
    - Bonescythe Armor: The Eviscerate bonus will no longer trigger when
    your Eviscerate does not hit your target.
    - Darkmoon Card- Twisting Nether: The dialog for this resurrection
    will now always reappear after the Spirit of Redemption effect has
    completed.
    - Eye of the Dead: Holy Shock now interacts properly with this item.
    - Ranged Elemental Damage: Our ranged combat system does not allow a
    ranged weapon to do a mix of Elemental (Fire, Frost, Arcane, etc.)
    and Physical damage. Many ranged weapons existed which were listed
    as doing Elemental damage and did not function properly (the damage
    was dealt, but was treated as Physical). All of those weapons have
    been changed to deliver the Elemental damage as a chance on hit
    effect. Hurricane was previously changed this way in 1.11. The
    following ranged weapons are also fixed in 1.12: Bow of Searing
    Arrows, Dwarven Hand Cannon, Heartseeking Crossbow, Dark Iron Rifle,
    Galgann's Fireblaster, Quillshooter, Shell Launcher Shotgun,
    Venomstrike, and Verdant Keeper's Aim.
    - Talisman of Ascendence: This item will no longer trigger from
    physical damage effects. In addition, if either of the buffs from
    the item are cancelled, they will both be cancelled.
    - Zandalarian Hero Charm: Item tooltip corrected to match the effect
    tooltip.
    - The Items that summon mounts have been changed in their color/
    quality. Items that summon normal mounts are now blue(superior)items
    and items that summon swift mounts are now purple(epic) items.
    - Fixed a bug that allowed you to use items which restored health or
    mana while you were already full health or mana.
    - Fixed a bug with the Jom Gabbar trinket which was causing it to
    trigger a category cooldown for a duration longer than intended.
    - Fixed a bug that prevented Arcane Missiles from being able to
    trigger the effect of Wrath of Cenarius.
    - Clarified the tooltips for the Stormshroud armor and Kalimdor's
    Revenge to explain that they deal Nature damage.
    - Fixed a bug that caused the Blooddrenched Mask to hide a character's
    hair.
    - Warbear leather now stacks to 20.
    Professions
    - Engineering: The damage from sapper charges can now be resisted.
    The overall DPS of the charges should not be significantly altered
    from what it currently is.
    - Engineering: Explosive sheep do fire damage instead of physical
    damage.

    Post too long ->
    Continued


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,560 ✭✭✭Ivan


    Raids and Dungeons

    - Uldaman
    Reduced the number of Shadowforge Ambushers that attack after
    looting the quest chest.
    Shadowforge Ambushers are no longer elite.
    The respawn of the Stone Stewards has been changed to 2 hours
    (from 30 minutes).
    - Zul'Farrak
    The respawn of the 2 Troll/1 Basilisk patrollers should now be 2
    hours.
    Reduced the damage dealt by the Sul'lithuz Abomination and
    Sul'lithuz Sandcrawler.
    Dead Heroes are no longer elites.
    Theka the Martyr will now only remain immune to physical damage for
    30 seconds before reverting to normal.
    Antu'sul's Sul'lithuz Broodlings now only hatch 4 at a time and are
    significantly weaker.
    Witch Doctor Zum'rah will no longer call as many dead heroes to his
    aid when aggroed.
    Weegli Blastfuse now has slightly more hit points.
    Antu'sul's Warden no longer attempts to knock adventurers into
    Antu'sul's lair.
    Sandfury Cretins who engage the party during the pyramid event are
    no longer able to cast shadow bolt.
    - Mauradon
    Noxxious Scions will no longer spawn when you cleanse Celebrian Vines.

    User Interface
    - V key functionality has been improved in several ways.
    V key now shows summoned monsters (such as the gargoyles in
    Stratholme.)
    V key now shows both monsters and player enemies.
    V now shows enemies only (no longer shows friendly targets.)
    Shift-V now shows friendly targets only, not enemies (with a new
    bindable hotkey.)
    Control-V shows both friendly targets and enemy targets (with a new
    bindable hotkey.)
    - New floating combat text has been added to the game with a number
    of options. You can see when you take damage, when you are healed
    and how much, when you acquire and lose auras and much more. You can
    turn on the new options in the newly revised options screen.
    - The Need Before Greed and Group Loot countdown timers will now have
    a 3 minute countdown when there is a bind on acquire item on the
    corpse. This should allow a bit more time in making a decision to
    roll for an item.
    - Automatic Quest Tracking has been added to the game and is turned
    on by default. Any time you advance a quest by advancing one of the
    requirements, the quest information will appear on your screen for 5
    minutes before fading. You can turn this option off from the options
    screen.
    - There is now a confirmation dialogue when you attempt to disband
    your guild.

    Bug Fixes
    - Fixed a bug that caused some non-combat pets to be referred to as
    Minions instead of Pets. Mini Diablo however has escaped this fate
    and will continue to be referred to as a Minion.


    Some of the UI tweaks look great, but once again Blizzard copy mod makers introducing functionality that anybody who actually played the game for any extended period of time, could see was needed...


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