Define "World Class"

Mr. Presentable

Much of the debate in this forum is a back and forth of **** is/isn't world class. What do you mean by "world class"? Is it what you are told by Andy Gray & co?


My definition, for what it's worth:

The best in the world in his position, bar none.

For example, Terry/Ferdinand/Campell are world class? Eh, no! Cannavaro, Ayala are.

PHB

Would be in the top 4 in his position, so there would be about 40 world class players

Rikand

How about a list of your top 40 world class players

PHB

Oh wouldn't that be fun

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote:

Would be in the top 4 in his position, so there would be about 40 world class players

Interesting. If I was to say Earth has been challenged to a football match vs Venus, the 11 would be the "world class" players. How do you arrive at four for each position?

Who would you nominate as the four "world class" goalkeepers?

Lex Luthor

nipplenuts wrote:

Much of the debate in this forum is a back and forth of **** is/isn't world class. What do you mean by "world class"? Is it what you are told by Andy Gray & co?


My definition, for what it's worth:

The best in the world in his position, bar none.

For example, Terry/Ferdinand/Campell are world class? Eh, no! Cannavaro, Ayala are.

Cannavaro/Ayala I agree are world Class...of the other 3, 2 are not. terry is still young and is a top defender for his age. Cannavarro & Ayala are 30+.

Look in the dictionary and you will see the name Zidane under world class.

Mr. Presentable

Lex Luthor wrote:

terry is still young and is a top defender for his age.

Yes, but if you had to put someone in that position for a game tonight, who would it be?

Guy:Incognito

A lot of players get word class reputations because they play in foreign countries where they are not seen very often, whereas others that we see week in week out are written off and taken for granted.

Chucky the tree

Stekelly wrote:

A lot of players get word class reputations because they play in foreign countries where they are not seen very often, whereas others that we see week in week out are written off and taken for granted.

This is a common problem. So is rating someone purely based on football(championship) manager.

KdjaCL

World class is easy....players who can/do perform at international football.

For Ireland we have 3 truly world class players Duff Keane and Given, perform in qualifiers and in World Cups proven world class players.


Now form plays a part but for arguments sake Rooney has never done it at international level yet Owen has. Well go tru the English team and see who has done it at a WC or international level......


kdjac

ronbyrne2005

Stekelly wrote:

A lot of players get word class reputations because they play in foreign countries where they are not seen very often, whereas others that we see week in week out are written off and taken for granted.

Actually in ireland/england its more the case that we dont see most players from outside premiership/champs league and assume they arent world class but most world class players are in premiership/champions league/euro leagues so i dont think we take them all for granted, some players come from weak nations too and wont be seen at world cups so looking at top players in european/south american leagues is best guide to showing world class players.

ronbyrne2005

World class is being close to being the top player in your position or capable of playing at close to the same level as the top players in each position. How would gerrard/lamard square up against viera/makele? i know they aint identical style players but in terms of effectiveness and stopping the other playing

KdjaCL

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

World class is being close to being the top player in your position or capable of playing at close to the same level as the top players in each position. How would gerrard/lamard square up against viera/makele? i know they aint identical style players but in terms of effectiveness and stopping the other playing

Would Requelme and Kaka Zidane Totti not be better positional players to put the boys up against.


kdjac

Ruu_Old

Francesco Toldo must be still there, is he with Inter Milan still?

Jivin Turkey

nipplenuts wrote:

Much of the debate in this forum is a back and forth of **** is/isn't world class. What do you mean by "world class"? Is it what you are told by Andy Gray & co?


My definition, for what it's worth:

The best in the world in his position, bar none.

For example, Terry/Ferdinand/Campell are world class? Eh, no! Cannavaro, Ayala are.

You say that "world class" is the best in his position bar none, but then go on to list two centre-halves as "world class".

I'm confused.

World class can't be defined. It's subjective. And I reckon this is probably one of the worst places in the world to ask the question!

Mr. Presentable

Would there not traditionally be two centre halves?

Mr. Presentable

Jivin Turkey wrote:

And I reckon this is probably one of the worst places in the world to ask the question!

Which is, of course, why I asked it

Jivin Turkey

nipplenuts wrote:

Would there not traditionally be two centre halves?

So a world class team has to play 4-4-2?

Could it not be three centre-halves?

Again, as I said, it's all subjective. But you open that can of worms

PHB

Who would you nominate as the four "world class" goalkeepers?

For me,
Buffon, Casillas without a doubt
Then probably Cech
Then probably Dida

Mr. Presentable

not Jens Lehmann , RICARDO Pereira? I'd put them ahead of Dida.

How about left backs?

Pepe LeFrits

Dida, ahaha.

World Class is a stupid term that seems to have crept into usage since it was introduced as a tag name for the top players in Football Manager (along with the terms DM, AMC etc). It means something different to everyone and thus is basically meaningless.

RealJohn

KdjaC wrote:

World class is easy....players who can/do perform at international football.

This is pretty much my view on it too. You don't have to be in the top 4 (or whatever) in your position but you have to look like an international standard of player on a regular basis, be it in international competition or continental or domestic competition. You have to regularly look like a class above those who are there to make up the numbers.

[Jackass]

PHB wrote:

For me,
Buffon, Casillas without a doubt
Then probably Cech
Then probably Dida

Given is comfortably better than Dida, is at least on a par with Cech and is in the same league as Buffon and Casillas imo...maybe his weakest part of play is his distribution (which isn't bad, but not "world class") but for shot stopping alone I don't think there's much better. Dida is liable for the odd clanger, especially from crosses, in any given game. You can count any clanger given would make in a entire season on one hand.

My defenition of "world class" is a player who excells in his position at EVERY level and makes a big impact on any game. Therefore, there can be several "world class" players in one position, as long as they dominate their opponent.

(The clash of 2 world class players is always a classic...Keane Vs Zidane or Viera for example have been classic ones for both domestic, european and country.)

Attractive Nun

There is no definition of "world class", it's just a word that defines a very good player. A player that would be considered very good in every country in the world, regardless of style of play etc, and could make an impact at every level of the game.

I'd say there are about 150 players who I would consider 'world class', many of whom I probably haven't heard of.

SpAcEd OuT

nipplenuts wrote:

How about left backs?

ZAMBROTTA


it's good to see that hes finally getting the praise he deserves this WC

ask the majority of ppl in ireland who is the best left back and they will say ashley cole :rolleyes:

iregk

I agree Zambrotta is the best left full in the world and nobody even close at the moment.

Back on topic. The reason we are talking about is because of the prem. We all watch the prem adn we all get told how its full of world class talent and such and such is a world class player etc... Buying into the hyperbole so to speak. Then we watch the england team turn out a dire display at a world cup and it makes us all think maybe we over rated them, maybe they aren't as good as we though. For me this is the case. The english players and the prem is over rated to a huge degree. Lampard and Gerrard are hugely over rated as is Rooney and Rio Ferdinand. I could go on a while here...

So what does define world class? World class for me is somone who does it on every stage not just one. Does he do it for his club? does he do it in europe? does he do it at international level and most importantly does he dance the biggest stage of all, the world cup?

World class players tick all these boxes. Some like Rio doesn't as he is constantly getting shown up in both the prem and the champions league even though a lot of people believe when sky tell them otherwise.

Two names recently who are world class. Zinedine Zidane and Roberto Baggio. The true mark of a great player is one who gets up on the biggest stage of all and owns it. World cup 94, world cup 98 and world cup 2006. Three stages where these two players stood up and ran the show. Thats world class! David Beckham running riot against a very poor Greece side of the time is not!

tdv

iregk wrote:

I agree Zambrotta is the best left full in the world and nobody even close at the moment.

Back on topic. The reason we are talking about is because of the prem. We all watch the prem adn we all get told how its full of world class talent and such and such is a world class player etc... Buying into the hyperbole so to speak. Then we watch the england team turn out a dire display at a world cup and it makes us all think maybe we over rated them, maybe they aren't as good as we though. For me this is the case. The english players and the prem is over rated to a huge degree. Lampard and Gerrard are hugely over rated as is Rooney and Rio Ferdinand. I could go on a while here...

So what does define world class? World class for me is somone who does it on every stage not just one. Does he do it for his club? does he do it in europe? does he do it at international level and most importantly does he dance the biggest stage of all, the world cup?

World class players tick all these boxes. Some like Rio doesn't as he is constantly getting shown up in both the prem and the champions league even though a lot of people believe when sky tell them otherwise.

Two names recently who are world class. Zinedine Zidane and Roberto Baggio. The true mark of a great player is one who gets up on the biggest stage of all and owns it. World cup 94, world cup 98 and world cup 2006. Three stages where these two players stood up and ran the show. Thats world class! David Beckham running riot against a very poor Greece side of the time is not!

Yeah I'd agree with that. Too many players nowadays are regarded as "world class". From the past 10 years players I would class as world class would be...

Zidane, Baggio, Romario, Maldini, Cafu, Ayala, Buffon & probally Ronaldo have all performed on the biggest stages

samb

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Dida, ahaha.

World Class is a stupid term that seems to have crept into usage since it was introduced as a tag name for the top players in Football Manager (along with the terms DM, AMC etc). It means something different to everyone and thus is basically meaningless.

I agree entirely. Since it is not defined it is meaningless. Also some have agrued below that a ''world class player'' is someone who performs excellently at international level-yet we often see players playing way better for thier country and others play better for there club. It depends on how they fit in with the way the rest of the team plays. e.g Essien was imo one of the players of the tournament and would definetely be defined as world class based on this world cup, conversly Rooney has struggled. does this mean Essien is better than Rooney.?
In 2004 was Baros world class, but Henry not??

This argument is like giles saying Riquelme is not a 'Great' player. If you allow only 10 great players then he isn't, if you allow 100 he isn't, if you allow 1000 he is?/ its all meaningless. I think Gerrard is a 'great' player, what does that tell you? f-all.

BaZmO*

It's a totally subjective term. It's like saying what's the best song. You could give your opinion on what is the best song, but you can't say for definite that it is in fact the best. The only guide you could use is sales, but even at that it doesn't necessarliy prove that it was the best.

Likewise in sport, team sports like football in particular, you could use the yard stick of achievements, e.g. trophies, medals, etc. to gauge how good a player is but if you do that you have to take into consideration the players surrounding them in their team and the tactics employed by a manager. Take Greece for example, a team of World Class players? Don't think so.

Also, some players are fantastic players but because of their nationality bever get to perform in a World Cup or European Cup.

The term World Class is a pointless one, but for me, if you were going to define it, it would be any player that has consistently played at a top level for most of their career, injury permitting.

Unearthly

KdjaC wrote:

World class is easy....players who can/do perform at international football.

For Ireland we have 3 truly world class players Duff Keane and Given, perform in qualifiers and in World Cups proven world class players.


Now form plays a part but for arguments sake Rooney has never done it at international level yet Owen has. Well go tru the English team and see who has done it at a WC or international level......


kdjac

So do you think Milan Baros is worldclass?

He has never done in it in the world cup but the standard of teams he played in Euro 2004 was high

My definition of Worldclass is a player who is one of the best in the world at their position.

Now of course every few years you get a player who is an exceptional talent and simply better than everyone else(Zidane a few years ago, Maradona) but I'd call them legends.

Pigman II

Define "World Class"

1. English born
2. Hold down a first-team place for either ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea
3. Talk a good game

iregk

Pigman II wrote:

1. English born
2. Hold down a first-team place for either ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea
3. Talk a good game

4. Sky Sports says so...