Laser Eye Surgery and the Defence Forces

neilled

This is going to sound awful similar to another thread here so mods merge it if you will. At the moment i am a 20 year old university student, i've another two years left to go in uni and have been pondering a military career after i finish up. Its about the only thing that interests me at the moment as i can't bear the thought of myself ending up as a teacher (i'm studying history and politics) or the thought of office work or "retail hell" is a real turn off to me - I've always loved the outdoors, hillwalking, mountaineering and navigation and that sort of thing and a military career has started to look attractive. Having worked in two well known outdoor gear shops in dublin that would both be frequented by members of the df - i've found whilst chatting to them about the kit that they would need to do their job (and ordering it in for them)they've told me a bit of what they do on a day to day basis and it sounds appealling . I've two years to build up my fitness levels to the appropriate standard and have started running this month and have more or less stopped using public transport since april and cycled everywhere instead. (in any case it will do me good irregardless of the answers to the next question). I'm a reasonably intelligent, got and A and two B's in my A-Levels and hope to come out with a good degree and apply for a cadetship. Heres my problem though - i'm cursed with bad eyesight.

When i was 18 and leaving school as a matter of interest a rung up my optician and got them to check my prescription against the entry requirements and the answer was no - my vision wasn't good enough. I'm thinking of having laser surger carried out anyway - my glasses are a pain in the backside when i'm out in the hills and the fog or rain comes rolling over the mountains, nevermind cycling in the city. In anycase your eyesight doesn't improve as you get older so its likely to have gotten worse so i feel even more of an incentive to get the procedure done.

Now having read the cadetship brouchure i've noted that candidates who've had this procedure done are excluded...... does anyone out there know a reason for this, if the policy is likely to change etc? Or should I a file a FOI to find out or write to the minster for defence as military.ie and the cadetship booklet is unclear about this, i'm just curious as to the reasoning behind it if you got the procedure done and didn't have any side effects.

It strikes me as odd when airforce pilots from other countries flying multimillion euro aircraft are allowed to get the procedure done. I also have noted that the british army and the raf regiment allow candidates that have had laser eye surgery carried to to apply once they are signed off as having had a full recovery and go to sandhurst, cranwell or whereever. I guess i'd really prefer to serve my "own" country but if it comes to it i'd be prepared to take the queens shilling in order to pursue a military career if it came to it.

I've done a bit of research into the various types of surgery, the costs etc and i won't bore you with it here.

Anyway does anyone have any suggestions, info, advice for me, Who should i ask to find out more etc?

Thanks in advance folks, your help and or advice would be sincerely appreciated.

Neil

the_syco

I think the wording is "Certain types of surgery or laser treatment to correct visual defects are unacceptable and clarification should be sought prior to application", so I'd advise you going and having a talk to see which, if any, surgeries are allowed. Some are meant to cause your "night sight" to not be as good, which, in the army, is a big no-no, as you need night sight.

neilled

Well i dug up the following from the uk, the first is from ultralase, a crowd that do surgery and the second is a
ARMED FORCES
Although the US Military actively encourages its troops and other service personnel to have LASIK laser eye treatment for short sight, long sight and astigmatism, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has yet to adopt the same approach. Ultralase asked the MoD to clarify their current position. The Secretary of State for Defence (Geoff Hoon, MP) provided us with the following statement.

"The MoD is currently reviewing its policy on laser eye surgery. In future, this may allow us to offer this treatment for Service personnel, undertaken by military ophthalmic surgeons in defence secondary care facilities, where appropriate.

"However, existing military policy - followed by all three Services - states that while laser eye surgery is not generally prohibited among serving personnel or potential recruits, there are rules covering its use. Laser eye surgery is not approved for personnel in certain specialist employment groups such as aviation, diving, airborne forces or marines. And for all personnel, either serving or potential recruits, the maximum pre-correction refractive error that is allowable to be corrected is +/- 6 dioptres. The MoD does not pay for refractive error corrective surgery, nor is it undertaken by military ophthalmic surgeons on military patients.

"Personnel who are currently serving, and choose to undergo laser eye surgery, are obliged to disclose it to their medical officer and, on their return to work, they are temporarily medically downgraded for a period of 12 months. Before being declared medically fit, they are seen by a Service consultant ophthalmologist who confirms that the individual is suffering from no significant visual side effects secondary to the surgery, and that the eye is stable. When contemplating this procedure, personnel are advised that failure to meet eyesight standards following the operation may result in permanent medical downgrading.

"Any potential recruit who has disclosed that they have had laser eye surgery must be referred for a comprehensive ophthalmic examination by a Service approved consultant ophthalmic surgeon who will make a recommendation on suitability for entry. This must include specialist visual function testing. They must also show documentary evidence that:

the pre-correction error was no more than +/- 6 dioptres;
the best spectacle corrected visual acuity is 6/6 or better in the right eye, and 6/12 or better in the left eye;
at least 12 months have elapsed since they had the treatment;
there has been no significant visual side effects secondary to the surgery affecting daily activities; and
refraction is stable, as defined by two refractions performed on each eye at least six months apart, with no more than a 0.50 dioptre difference in the spherical equivalent in each eye.
I hope that this answers the questions raised by Ultralase."

Geoff Hoon
Ministry of Defence[/I

and the other is from an reply to a query fielded by someone one the arrse.co.uk website

Not to long ago any form of laser eye treatment was an instant medical rejection for service in the Army. They recently changed the policy to look at each case individually. Depending on the type of treatment carried out, the time since carried out and the final outcome of the surgery you may be considered. This is subject to final medical approval. They will consider applications from those who have had LASEK, PRK and ICRs/ICSs corrective surgery. Entry will not be considered for those who have had RK, AK or any other type incisional refractive surgery other than those listed above. All invasive intraocular surgical procedures will remain a bar to entry.

Have failed to get any info about the defence forces so far. Failing a policy change then it looks like i'll have to look to the uk then.....

kowloon

Dont tell anyone youve had it done, half of the older crew in the airlines have had it done, and after 2-3 weeks later theres no way anyone can tell youve ever had treatment, you will be well adjusted by then, but get it done sooner rather than later.
A lot of the entry requirements like this are BS anyway, theyll change when its officially recognised that laser treatment is no longer a rare and dodgy procedure.

neilled

kowloon wrote:

Dont tell anyone youve had it done, half of the older crew in the airlines have had it done, and after 2-3 weeks later theres no way anyone can tell youve ever had treatment, you will be well adjusted by then, but get it done sooner rather than later.
A lot of the entry requirements like this are BS anyway, theyll change when its officially recognised that laser treatment is no longer a rare and dodgy procedure.

Theres a book called "Squaddie" by a guy called steve mcloughlan who enlisted in the royal green jackets in his 30's. He had been thrown out of the royal marine commandos in his early 20's after about successfully smashing his way through a month of training - they'd noted his "funny shaped eyes" during his basic physical and then brought him in for further testing - once they found he'd broken the rules he got thrown out! I imagine the defence forces are the same.........

kowloon

I dont think you can detect the modern treatment given healing time.
You should get an independent and more importantly, unofficial exam before you do anything, most crowds know what the Army, Air corps IAA etc. standards are and they can tell you before you go if you will pass or not.
The last thing you want is anything on record.
If youre going to fail get the treatment, not like you have much to lose!

Bam Bam

Laser eye surgery leaves imperfections in the eye that are easily decectable by modern equipment.

Also by saying nothing and it is found out, there may be repercussions, seeing as you lied to the military and all, falsified your records stc.

Nothingcompares

Has the status on this issue changed? Anyone got any new info?

testicle

No it has not changed. Laser Eye surgery precludes you from a cadetship in the Defence Forces.

Flying

Do you actually have to declare it, meaning what difference IMHO does it make if you had surgery or not.

I have a friend in the Navy who had it done before he joined and never had a problem ?

NoQuarter

well i say just dont declare it, i had asthma when i was younger and that was a no-no for the DF but i kept my mouth shut and got in and nothin was ever said or ever will be....

testicle

Cadet, and pre-commissioning medicals are quite more stringent than those for enlistment. They probably will catch it.

If you don't declare it, and it is not spotted until your pre-commissioning medical, you will not be commissioned.

Tribunius

They will spot it during the medical. It is far more stringent than the enlisted one as has been pointed out.

neilled

Thanks for the updates lads, was surprised to see if the thread resurrected after so long. Apparently the rule is/was supposed to be under review and that the DF would be following international best practise on this.

Anyone in the DF like to comment if they can forsee the situation being changed in a few years time?