Ban the Haka, I've bloody had enough...

Sangre

sheepshagger wrote:

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

Go to any test match and the amount of camera flashes when its being done will show you that its still very popular to most rugby fans :cool:

Not sure if you've seen this but its a site that has a bit of guff on the Haka and its history (if anyones interested). . .

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=haka

I think you'll find most people don't have issues with the haka per se, its the fact that everyone has to stop and watch it and a team is unable to respond to it or even ignore it.

Chucky the tree

toomevara wrote:

So you're saying then that they (the AB's) don't need it and its annoying...so can I infer then that you think its superfluous and should be removed from the game?

I do think it should be removed, along with the national anthems. However using the excuse that it gives them some unfair advantage against everyone else is very sad.

Chucky the tree

Sangre wrote:

I think you'll find most people don't have issues with the haka per se, its the fact that everyone has to stop and watch it and a team is unable to respond to it or even ignore it.

Its like another national anthem to them. It is a sign of disrepect by walking off and ignoring it. If the oppistion in lansdowne walked off during that ****e english verision we sing there would be uproar.

Sure there was uproar over the fact the president had to walk on the grass because to shake hand with the english players.

gjim

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

The problem I have with it is that it's been elevated into some sort of semi-religious bullsh*t which it never was before. Look at the famous AB BaaBaas game (it's on Google video) and watch the ABs do the Haka - it's just a bit of interest and colour before the game. The team even look slightly embarrassed doing it. Some people are watching intently, others are carrying on about their business. As a kid I was always facinated with it as a spectacle.

Fast forward 30 years. I've seen the Haka performed a few times by the ABs but I'd be perfectly happy if I never saw a Haka again. The NZRU now license the commercial exploitation of the NZ Haka in world wide exclusive deals to sports goods manufacturers for money. That'd be fair enough - a sign of the times I guess but what sticks in the craw is that "disrespecting the Haka" is now viewed among New Zealanders as an evil racist crime against humanity almost up there in the same league as gassing Jews or sending people to the Gulags. Opposing teams are no longer allowed to ignore it and do their stretches and warm-ups - instead they're expected to stand in quietly reverencial awe otherwise there'd be calls for them to be dragged on front of the International Court of Justice.

Historically there was never this sanctimonious pious attitude to the Haka - this is a recent development over the last 20 years or so. Excuse some of us if we prefer the old ways where it was just a bit of a novelty before the game. There'd be far fewer calls for it to be done away with if the AB attitude towards it was the same as it was back then.

prophetnz

IMO its not a AB's attitude problem its a sign of the times. Everyone nowday has to go along with all these Bull**** PC type rules we have made and when someone finally has had enough even a slight crossing of the line will end up looking like "an evil racist crime against humanity almost up there....".

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

I do think it should be removed, along with the national anthems. However using the excuse that it gives them some unfair advantage against everyone else is very sad.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Chucky....think we could be here 'till christmas...:) though having read all the posts reckon the final conclusion is hakas all round!!!!

Titan10

joe90 wrote:

Hi all been reading the rugby boards.ie for some time now.I am from New Zealand and have been living in Ireland for the past 10 years.Lately there seem to be alot of bitching about the all blacks there cheating style off the play,haka etc.. The haka is a big part off NZ rugby and any kiwis will tell you what it means to the team and country,also many other NZ teams use hakas before sports events.Most Irish people i know enjoy seeing the haka and say it adds a good edge to the start off games.As with the cheating that the all blacks get away with it is all about playing the ref seeing what he is going to ping you for and what not.Having played senior rugby in ireland for a good few years most teams in the first ten minutes play the ref to see what way he is going to ref the game, break downs, rucks etc..Than we know what we can get away with,all teams do it. Its not cheating as such. If you dont than you will be at a disadvantage.The AB doe do it more than most teams and if they are why dont other teams do it ? Just my 2 cents worth

cheers

I've got to agree, it's pathetic to complain about the AB's doing the Haka or Infringing more than others at the breakdown!!

Teams should get fired up watching the Haka and if the AB's are getting away with infringing at the breakdown, why aren't others following suit!!!

Crash

How can you have that attitude towards the AB's infringing?

If they get away with it, why doesnt everyone just follow it.

I love this sport, and I love the rules. when they're broken by the opposing team, I shout and scream. when they're broken by us, i go "eh...." but at the same time if everyone breaks em, wtf is the point in playing?

toomevara

Titan10 wrote:

if the AB's are getting away with infringing at the breakdown, why aren't others following suit!!!

Hmmm...think you may have been watching too much of the football world cup!:) This is the type of attitude which has comprehensvely destroyed football as a genuine sporting experience/spectacle...Rugby has/had (God please dont tell me its dead!) a very different sporting ethic to other games for a whole host of historical and cultural reasons...and this is a VERY GOOD thing....

We dont want rugby becoming the sort of zero-sum game of winner takes all and sod the price in terms of fair play, dignity and respect....It isnt what rugby or rugby culture is about...now, I know that the AB's and their fellow travellers think they have the right to be the sole arbiters of the direction the game takes, but there's a few of us left who value the game itself over the success of any individual team (yep, ireland included).

Systematic cheating (because thats what it is, lets call a spade a spade} is not acceptable at any level in the game,least of all at the very top where the game sets out its stall, and from where casual players and observers take their cue.....

Incidentally let me make it clear that ALL international teams are at this, not just the AB's, they merely happen to be the most skilful and dogged practictioners...

Harrumph....fulminate...bring back amateurism, thats where it all went pete tong....

TarfHead

toomevara wrote:

The all blacks are a sensational rugby team drawn from a brilliant rugby culture.

correction - going by the players that played against Ireland this year, there were approx. 6 cultures involved.

• Maori
• Paheka
• Fiji
• Tonga
• Samoa
• South Africa

I first saw the ABs in Lansdowne Road in 1978 and the haka, in those days, was a quaint piece of theatre. The Pahekas were looking at the rest trying to follow their lead. It was, IIRC, Buck Shelford who got it going as psychological weapon.

toomevara

TarfHead wrote:

correction - going by the players that played against Ireland this year, there were approx. 6 cultures involved.

• Maori
• Paheka
• Fiji
• Tonga
• Samoa
• South Africa

I first saw the ABs in Lansdowne Road in 1978 and the haka, in those days, was a quaint piece of theatre. The Pahekas were looking at the rest trying to follow their lead. It was, IIRC, Buck Shelford who got it going as psychological weapon.

Oh christ, now you've gone and done it....I've often bemoaned the sacking of samoa, the trashing of tonga etc... etc... which the kiwis indulge in, and the hugely negative impact this has on the devlopment of rugby in those nations and by extension the development of rugby on a global level. But this is another sacred cow (like the haka) which cannot be debated rationally..and it will never change.....the kiwis will take what they need from these nations regardless....the decline of tonga is especially galling given the proud history of the game there, they were frankly embarrassing against Samoa in the Pacific Nations contest....

And then what of the shameful decision to give the '11 WC to the Kiwis, because as we all know,if theres one country where rugby needs help developing and growing its NZ...i feel ill even thinking of it.....

TiwstaSista

esskay wrote:

i am in NZ at the moment and there have been two stories about the haka in the news in the last week. Firstly, Fiat have an ad with a group of ladies doing the haka promoting some new car. Apparently Fiat consulted someone here and were told it would cause cultural offense to have women doing the haka but went ahead anyway. They were not too impressed here to say the least. Secondly, the ozzies have released an ad for the rugby where they added handbags to the NZ team doing the haka, tis funny as hell. That they weren't too annoyed at. just thought you'd want to know.

Women hakka-ists? I'd hit it.

Crash

I find that a bit bizarre seeing as i've seen a number of documentaries on NZ which feature women partaking in haka's.

crybaby

ive always thought they shouldnt be allowed perform the Haka and quite frankly im a bit sick of everyone being so respectable towards it when its being performed by a bunch of rugby players

Crash

*shrug* the haka is a part of maori culture, and has been performed at weddings and so on - I do however question the fact that when it is essentially a perversion of the idea (i.e. people outside of maori culture performing it purely because of sport) how it can be considered so "sacred" to some of the new lot.

Sangre

&#231 wrote: »

*shrug* the haka is a part of maori culture, and has been performed at weddings and so on -

Will you maori me?

toomevara

Don't want to re-ignite this one but........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/5219926.stm

does Connolly have a point..(for the record, I agree with 'im) even though he's probably just being mischievious before the match in classic wallaby style....

prophetnz

oh boo hoo, People see war torn places on the news, reports of people gunning others down, images of death everywhere and this is what he is up in arms about.

RuggieBear

Why are you posting on the rugby forum then...rugby is only a game. If you feel so strongly about war torn places on the news, reports of people gunning others down, images of death everywhere, don't post on the rugby forum...go to humanities or politics.

Personally i think the throat slitting haka is wrong and that the excuses from the kiwi's about it being a misinterpreted maori symbolic act, ring hollow. (perhaps as misinterpreted as BOD's attempt to honour the haka before the first Lions Test ...which had him singled out and attacked)

prophetnz

RuggieBear wrote:

Why are you posting on the rugby forum then...rugby is only a game. If you feel so strongly about war torn places on the news, reports of people gunning others down, images of death everywhere, don't post on the rugby forum...go to humanities or politics.

I dont feel that strongly about war torn places, just pointing out there are far more 'shocking' things been shown on TV than the Haka with an action that looks like throat sliting.

EDIT - im posting on a rugby forum because i injoy playing and watchiong the game of rugby - DUH!

shmaido

yeah like, your so like-DUH! gosh

toomevara

prophetnz wrote:

oh boo hoo, People see war torn places on the news, reports of people gunning others down, images of death everywhere and this is what he is up in arms about.

Thanks for the heart rending lecture on the series of horrors currently stalking mankind, of which I'm sure none of us was remotely aware. We're so lucky to have a Ghandian intellect like yours to point out the shocking inconsequence of our views.....

or...

alternately, back in the real world, the less kind hearted among us could point out, gently, but somewhat exasperatedly, that, this is a rugby forum where, shock!! horror!!! we discuss rugby related issues. if I feel the need to comment on 'war torn places' as you so eloquently put it, I'll visit the appropriate forum. In the meantime ,nothing will change my mind concerning the utter unsuitability and inappropriateness of the Kapo O Pango. it has no place on the rugby field as far as I'm concerned and goes against the fundamentals of rugby culture.

prophetnz

How the hell was that 'heart rending'? Ofcourse you guys know whats going on in the world im just saying Kapo O Pango is such a pee wee issue in the context of influencing our youth.