Ban the Haka, I've bloody had enough...

toomevara

Liam90 wrote:

this ain't a debate this is a joke!

Of course you're right...all a bit tongue in cheek, glad you just copped it! Re-engage the sense of humour thrusters mate and turn down the sensitivity device....:)

zAbbo

Why put the mic's at centre facing the haka?

It's a becoming a gimic now, and was very underwhelming redition of it this morning.

Liam90

zabbo wrote:

Why put the mic's at centre facing the haka?

_________so the crowd can hear them_________

Liam90

toomevara wrote:

Of course you're right...all a bit tongue in cheek, glad you just copped it! Re-engage the sense of humour thrusters mate and turn down the sensitivity device....:)

oh man your fuking hilarious

toomevara

Liam90 wrote:

oh man your fuking hilarious

Why thank you young man, very gracious of you to say so, nothing like a little compliment and that was nothing like.....ah well you know the rest...:D

RuggieBear

Liam90 wrote:

thank you! someone who isn't a retard posts in the thread. I am sitting here reading this laughing at the excuse's you guys are coming up with, to be honest you all need to get out of the house more and get a life, the haka just isn't NZ culture its Pacific Island culture, the disrespect you guys are showing is honestly making me sick. Are you all growen men? because if you are this just makes the thread a joke. Im sixteen and i know how to respect something, grow up you underdeveloped retards!

banned for personal abuse

pm me in a week when you've grown up.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

he'll reply in a week.

hopefully, after he has calmed down and can argue coherantly and maturely

toomevara

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Absolutely, this is the question that fascinates me...and one I posed to the kiwi chap who posted earlier in the thread..I really want to know what turned the haka from a take-it-or-leave-it bit of pre match daftness into an item of almost religious reverence, which incites the kind of ire exhibited by our new young friend Liam90 earlier in the thread, when its questioned in any way.

esskay

i am in NZ at the moment and there have been two stories about the haka in the news in the last week. Firstly, Fiat have an ad with a group of ladies doing the haka promoting some new car. Apparently Fiat consulted someone here and were told it would cause cultural offense to have women doing the haka but went ahead anyway. They were not too impressed here to say the least. Secondly, the ozzies have released an ad for the rugby where they added handbags to the NZ team doing the haka, tis funny as hell. That they weren't too annoyed at. just thought you'd want to know.

Mad Mike

OK copied directly from a post on the P45 forums but so good it is worth plagiarising:

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australia has upset near-neighbour New Zealand with television advertisements depicting some of its rugged rugby players carrying women's handbags.

Seven Network television has been running the handbag ads, an irreverent reference to one of the most embarrassing moments in New Zealand sport, to promote Saturday's first Tri-Nations test between the arch-rivals.

They show All Blacks players, including former captain Tana Umaga, performing the haka, a traditional indigenous Maori war dance performed by New Zealand teams before every test match.

But the television station has placed large, digitally enhanced handbags over their shoulders.

In a bizarre off-field incident in May, Umaga broke up a fight between team mate Chris Masoe and an unidentified man in a nightclub by hitting the burly Masoe over the head with a woman's handbag he picked up off a table.

The incident reduced a tired and emotional Masoe, who weighs in at a hefty 106 kg (233 lb), to tears.

The offending handbag later attracted NZ$22,750 ($13,650) in an online auction and made New Zealand players the butt of many cross-Tasman jokes.

But New Zealand rugby officials have complained about the ad.

"It's insensitive, I think, to Maori and disrespectful of the All Blacks," New Zealand assistant coach Wayne Smith said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9ThdmZkFs&search=handbag

Jilm

toomevara wrote:

Absolutely, this is the question that fascinates me...and one I posed to the kiwi chap who posted earlier in the thread..I really want to know what turned the haka from a take-it-or-leave-it bit of pre match daftness into an item of almost religious reverence, which incites the kind of ire exhibited by our new young friend Liam90 earlier in the thread, when its questioned in any way.

The haka has become ingrained in NZ society over recent times ...it's now performed before school rugby games (often whole classes of students involved) by Maori and non-Maori. It's not limited solely to rugby union either, at the last commonwealth games even kiwi swimmers were getting in on the act ...I'm sure some people would do it before business board meetings in NZ, given half a chance.

New Zealand is a young country as well, which has been gradually cutting the ties between itself and Great Britain culturally as well as politically over the last several decades, so the haka is a cultural phenomenon that has filled the gap so to speak (my own theory). So a lot of kiwis can't comprehend how non-kiwis don't love the haka - or at least respect it - as much as they do, even if it's being performed to the perceived detriment of the opposition.

I'd happily see Ireland's presidental meet-and-greet and two anthems dropped if the ABs quietly dropped the haka (fat chance!).

sheepshagger

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

Go to any test match and the amount of camera flashes when its being done will show you that its still very popular to most rugby fans :cool:

Not sure if you've seen this but its a site that has a bit of guff on the Haka and its history (if anyones interested). . .

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=haka

toomevara

Right its quite clear we're banging our collective heads against a brick wall here. In the interests of levelling the playing field and in the great spirit of if you cant beat 'em join 'em, I'm proposing that we ban all national anthems and such frippery before a match and instead all international teams are required to create and perform their own haka....OK, Kiwis who are the go to guys? Should we give Tana a ring and get him to give us a hand creating an Irish haka.....??? least he could do really....

Any suggestions on the movements/format? What should the signature move be? The all blacks have the belligerent throat slasher, what should we do? The intimidating and much feared 'pint drinking' gesture..oh yes Kiwis prepare to feel fear...real fear....

We could also have a dance-off competition in parallel with the 6N, to see who's got the best moves....

prophetnz

River dance!!!!

Jilm

How about something like this Scottish response to the haka?

toomevara

yes indeedy,that's certainly one way of doing it!! Is showing your collective manhood before a match acceptable under IRB law? I s'pose like the kiwis re: the haka, the Scots could just as legitimately claim that showing off your William Wallace at a rugby match is part of their national culture...

Christ knows I've seen more sphincter cringingly awful penis revelations at Scottish internationals that your average gay pride march....honestly this whole thread is sinking into the realms of the surreal......

Sangre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DXYcZpEM4U

Now thats just cool.

toomevara

Have to say that does make the hair stand up on the back of your neck! Best response to the haka I've ever seen. Reckon we should get the Tongans to show us that one....

prophetnz

from the recent bledisloe game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBFHXl7Wevw&search=bledisloe%202006

Sangre

sheepshagger wrote:

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

Go to any test match and the amount of camera flashes when its being done will show you that its still very popular to most rugby fans :cool:

Not sure if you've seen this but its a site that has a bit of guff on the Haka and its history (if anyones interested). . .

http://www.allblacks.com/index.cfm?layout=haka

I think you'll find most people don't have issues with the haka per se, its the fact that everyone has to stop and watch it and a team is unable to respond to it or even ignore it.

Chucky the tree

toomevara wrote:

So you're saying then that they (the AB's) don't need it and its annoying...so can I infer then that you think its superfluous and should be removed from the game?

I do think it should be removed, along with the national anthems. However using the excuse that it gives them some unfair advantage against everyone else is very sad.

Chucky the tree

Sangre wrote:

I think you'll find most people don't have issues with the haka per se, its the fact that everyone has to stop and watch it and a team is unable to respond to it or even ignore it.

Its like another national anthem to them. It is a sign of disrepect by walking off and ignoring it. If the oppistion in lansdowne walked off during that ****e english verision we sing there would be uproar.

Sure there was uproar over the fact the president had to walk on the grass because to shake hand with the english players.

gjim

I'm also a kiwi whose been living Ireland (for some time now), its interesting reading some of the posts on here, I'm not sure as to why people are having issues with the Haka, its been done for years but its only in the last few (it seems) that some have said they have a problem with it

The problem I have with it is that it's been elevated into some sort of semi-religious bullsh*t which it never was before. Look at the famous AB BaaBaas game (it's on Google video) and watch the ABs do the Haka - it's just a bit of interest and colour before the game. The team even look slightly embarrassed doing it. Some people are watching intently, others are carrying on about their business. As a kid I was always facinated with it as a spectacle.

Fast forward 30 years. I've seen the Haka performed a few times by the ABs but I'd be perfectly happy if I never saw a Haka again. The NZRU now license the commercial exploitation of the NZ Haka in world wide exclusive deals to sports goods manufacturers for money. That'd be fair enough - a sign of the times I guess but what sticks in the craw is that "disrespecting the Haka" is now viewed among New Zealanders as an evil racist crime against humanity almost up there in the same league as gassing Jews or sending people to the Gulags. Opposing teams are no longer allowed to ignore it and do their stretches and warm-ups - instead they're expected to stand in quietly reverencial awe otherwise there'd be calls for them to be dragged on front of the International Court of Justice.

Historically there was never this sanctimonious pious attitude to the Haka - this is a recent development over the last 20 years or so. Excuse some of us if we prefer the old ways where it was just a bit of a novelty before the game. There'd be far fewer calls for it to be done away with if the AB attitude towards it was the same as it was back then.

prophetnz

IMO its not a AB's attitude problem its a sign of the times. Everyone nowday has to go along with all these Bull**** PC type rules we have made and when someone finally has had enough even a slight crossing of the line will end up looking like "an evil racist crime against humanity almost up there....".

toomevara

Chucky the tree wrote:

I do think it should be removed, along with the national anthems. However using the excuse that it gives them some unfair advantage against everyone else is very sad.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Chucky....think we could be here 'till christmas...:) though having read all the posts reckon the final conclusion is hakas all round!!!!

Titan10

joe90 wrote:

Hi all been reading the rugby boards.ie for some time now.I am from New Zealand and have been living in Ireland for the past 10 years.Lately there seem to be alot of bitching about the all blacks there cheating style off the play,haka etc.. The haka is a big part off NZ rugby and any kiwis will tell you what it means to the team and country,also many other NZ teams use hakas before sports events.Most Irish people i know enjoy seeing the haka and say it adds a good edge to the start off games.As with the cheating that the all blacks get away with it is all about playing the ref seeing what he is going to ping you for and what not.Having played senior rugby in ireland for a good few years most teams in the first ten minutes play the ref to see what way he is going to ref the game, break downs, rucks etc..Than we know what we can get away with,all teams do it. Its not cheating as such. If you dont than you will be at a disadvantage.The AB doe do it more than most teams and if they are why dont other teams do it ? Just my 2 cents worth

cheers

I've got to agree, it's pathetic to complain about the AB's doing the Haka or Infringing more than others at the breakdown!!

Teams should get fired up watching the Haka and if the AB's are getting away with infringing at the breakdown, why aren't others following suit!!!

Crash

How can you have that attitude towards the AB's infringing?

If they get away with it, why doesnt everyone just follow it.

I love this sport, and I love the rules. when they're broken by the opposing team, I shout and scream. when they're broken by us, i go "eh...." but at the same time if everyone breaks em, wtf is the point in playing?

toomevara

Titan10 wrote:

if the AB's are getting away with infringing at the breakdown, why aren't others following suit!!!

Hmmm...think you may have been watching too much of the football world cup!:) This is the type of attitude which has comprehensvely destroyed football as a genuine sporting experience/spectacle...Rugby has/had (God please dont tell me its dead!) a very different sporting ethic to other games for a whole host of historical and cultural reasons...and this is a VERY GOOD thing....

We dont want rugby becoming the sort of zero-sum game of winner takes all and sod the price in terms of fair play, dignity and respect....It isnt what rugby or rugby culture is about...now, I know that the AB's and their fellow travellers think they have the right to be the sole arbiters of the direction the game takes, but there's a few of us left who value the game itself over the success of any individual team (yep, ireland included).

Systematic cheating (because thats what it is, lets call a spade a spade} is not acceptable at any level in the game,least of all at the very top where the game sets out its stall, and from where casual players and observers take their cue.....

Incidentally let me make it clear that ALL international teams are at this, not just the AB's, they merely happen to be the most skilful and dogged practictioners...

Harrumph....fulminate...bring back amateurism, thats where it all went pete tong....

TarfHead

toomevara wrote:

The all blacks are a sensational rugby team drawn from a brilliant rugby culture.

correction - going by the players that played against Ireland this year, there were approx. 6 cultures involved.

• Maori
• Paheka
• Fiji
• Tonga
• Samoa
• South Africa

I first saw the ABs in Lansdowne Road in 1978 and the haka, in those days, was a quaint piece of theatre. The Pahekas were looking at the rest trying to follow their lead. It was, IIRC, Buck Shelford who got it going as psychological weapon.