Meditation a major struggle...help!

toomevara

I find meditating a major struggle, trying to still my mind virtually impossible..feel exhausted after every attempt. I know I should be trying not to try to hard etc... but it seems to become a bunfight every time. I do have moments of calm, but it isn't long before the backround noise starts up again...any and all advice greatfully welcomed......

UU

Hi toomevera!

Don't worry, meditation is a hard thing which takes time to develop the technique properly.

The minister of the unitarian church I attend gave us a good technique which works quite well. Firstly be comfortable. Then say "I am not my body" three times slowing focusing on every word and then on the line you've just said what it really mean. Then say "I am not my mind" three times as above. Then "I am not my heart" three times as above. Then say "I am just my soul" three times as above. This worked for me.

Of course, you may try something different. Also, this might sound strange but wear a pair of earplugs if noices distract you. That's what I do and it works well.

This the only advice I can give you. Anyhow good luck in your meditation.

Regards,

Daniel

toomevara

Thanks UU, greatly appreciated..will try tomorrow and let you know how I get on...and tanks for the tip re:noise, I do have the attention span of a gnat and am distracted by anything at all (a constant throughout my life!!!)

Asiaprod

toomevara wrote:

I do have the attention span of a gnat and am distracted by anything at all (a constant throughout my life!!!)

Hi toomevara welcome on board. Meditation is something that is indeed hard to start, but becomes very easy with practice. I am reposting two pieces on meditation. The first is an explanation of meditation and the second is a simple guide to meditating. Please feel free to ask any questions and I will try to help

Here is a great lesson on meditation and letrting the mind settle, enjoy

Letting the Mind Settle
A beginner's mind is often compared to a big waterfall with thoughts tumbling down like rushing water, but there's no need to get upset or frustrated. Through regular practice it will gradually settle, become as gentle as a quiet river, and finally as deep and peaceful as an ocean without waves.
We shouldn't get impatient or angry if our mind keeps wandering and we have to bring it back every second. Anyway, mind cannot be subdued by anger; it can only be tamed with love and kindness. We should not, in the name of meditation, punish or upset ourselves. We should treat our mind the way a very tolerant and loving mother would treat her naughty child. The child has so much energy that it jumps and messes around all the time and tries to run out of the room. The mother doesn't get upset or angry, she doesn't beat it up. She lets it play, but within the confines of one room. Slowly, the naughty child will use up all his or her energy and come to rest. We should also allow our mind to jump anywhere it wants to jump, but watch it constantly and bring it back every time, a million times if necessary. We should not be judgmental, get impatient, discouraged or angry, otherwise our meditation will become very tense, difficult and painful. We give total space to our mind and let it wear out its own energy.
If we experience the big waterfall and cannot control our mind, some breathing exercises might be quite good.Breathing is part of us. If you are a beginner you can close your eyes and use mental counting. With each in and out breath you count one. You count up to five, then start from the beginning again. We completely engage our mental activity in the breathing without thinking about anything else.
As we are now really trying to discipline our mind, it may react and reject it. If we try hard, we will become very tense and start complaining about headaches. Headaches come because we are getting too uptight. Mind has been able to do whatever it wanted for so long and now we are telling it to stay here quietly, so it gets angry.
If you start to get uptight while counting, stop counting and instead discuss with your mind: OK, now, I'm asking you nothing, so you have no good reason to complain. We can discuss like this because we are talking all the time in our head in much the same way, and we really have to find ways and means to make our mind understand why we are doing what we are doing.
Sometimes people want a lot of information and, accordingly, Lamas give them a lot of information, but I think this may create obstacles. If people asked less, I would give them less information and they would have a simple meditation. This would be the best. As far as Mahamudra is concerned, the great Indian Master Tilopa put it very simply: Don't speak, don't think, don't meditate! So simple! I am following this tradition but find myself giving students a hundred different methods! Students meditate and then come to me, Lama Yeshe, this breathing technique is not working for me, it's giving me a hard time. I then explain to them how to focus on an object. Then they look at it and it gets strange, changing form and colour.
If we become very rigid in our meditation or put too much effort into it, we will get these kinds of hallucinations. When this happens, we should stop focusing on the object and just relax. We should apply effort very gently. So, when this happens, they come to me again and say Lama Yeshe, this is driving me crazy, please give me another method. And I give them something else.
This is why we live in a world of abundant methods - because there are abundant needs and wants. People keep asking me for different methods and I keep giving them what they ask for, because that's the only way we can have some communication going on, but in the end, the same people complain, I don't like Tibetan Buddhism because it is so complicated. Why do we have to do all this? But I never asked them to do all this. I always taught them how to be simple. I told them from the very beginning that it must be simple.
So, to start with, make no complications, just sit at ease, completely relaxed physically and mentally. Do not engage in past or future, do not even count your breathing. Just do nothing


Simple guide on how to meditate.
Meditation is usfull for anyone, and you do not need to be a Buddhist to enjoy its benefits. It is a great way to relax, and a great way to help the mind find solutions to any problem. ?Please enjoy a little braek from the stress of everyday life.??Basic Meditation ?The most basic form of meditation involves attending to one's breath. ?Begin by sitting in a simple chair, keeping your back erect if you can. The more traditional postures are the lotus position, sitting on a pillow with each foot upon the opposite thigh, and variations such as the half lotus (one foot on the opposite thigh, the other out in front of the opposite knee). This is difficult for many people. Some people kneel, sitting back on their legs or on a pillow between their legs. Many use a meditation bench: kneel, then place a little bench beneath your behind. But meditation is also done while standing, slowly walking, lying on the floor, or even in a recliner! ?Traditionally, the hands are placed loosely, palms up, one on top of the other, and with the thumbs lightly touching. This is called the cosmic mudra, one of a large number of symbolic hand positions. You may prefer to lay them flat on your thighs, or any other way that you find comfortable. ?Your head should be upright, but not rigid. The eyes may be closed, or focussed on a spot on the ground a couple of feet ahead of you, or looking down at your hands. If you find yourself getting sleepy, keep your eyes open! ?Beginning meditators are often asked to count their breath, on the exhale, up to ten. Then you begin back at one. If you loose track, simply go back to one. Your breath should be slow and regular, but not forced or artificially controlled. Just breathe naturally and count. ?A few weeks later, you may forego the counting and try to simply follow your breath. Concentrate on it entering you and exiting you. Best is to be aware as fully as possible of the entire process of breathing, but most people focus on one aspect or another: the sensation of coolness followed by warmth at the nostrils, or the rise and fall of the diaphragm. Many meditators suggest imagining the air entering and exiting a small hole an inch or two below your navel. Keeping your mind lower on the body tends to lead to deeper meditation. If you are sleepy, then focus higher, such as at the nostrils. ?You will inevitably find yourself distracted by sounds around you and thoughts within. The way to handle them is to acknowledge them, but do not attach yourself to them. Do not get involved with them. Just let them be, let them go, and focus again on the breath. At first, it might be wise to scratch when you itch and wiggle when you get uncomfortable. Later, you will find that the same scant attention that you use for thoughts and sounds will work with physical feelings as well. ?A more advanced form of meditation is shikantaza, or emptiness meditation. Here, you don't follow anything at all. There is no concentration -- only quiet mindfulness. You hold your mind as if you were ready for things to happen, but don't allow your mind to become attached to anything. Things -- sounds, smells, aches, thoughts, images -- just drift in and out, like clouds in a light breeze. This is my own favorite. ?Many people have a hard time with their thoughts. We are so used to our hyperactive minds, that we barely notice the fact that they are usually roaring with activity. So, when we first sit and meditate, we are caught off guard by all the activity. So some people need to use a little imagination to help them meditate. For example, instead of counting or following your breath, you might prefer to imagine a peaceful scene, perhaps floating in a warm lagoon, until the noise of your mind quiets down. ?Meditate for fifteen minutes a day, perhaps early in the morning before the rest of the house wakes up, or late at night when everything has quieted down. If that's too much, do it once a week if you like. If you want, do more. Don't get frustrated. And don't get competitive, either. Don't start looking forward to some grand explosion of enlightenment. If you have great thoughts, fine. Write them down, if you like. Then go back to breathing. If you feel powerful emotions, wonderful. Then go back to breathing. The breathing is enlightenment.

toomevara

Thanks Asiaprod, greatly appreciated, that really does explain alot, and also alot of the stuff thats happening during my meditation attempts. I love the child analogy, its very apt indeed. Will try to put that in practice over the coming days....

Asiaprod

toomevara wrote:

Thanks Asiaprod, greatly appreciated, that really does explain alot, and also alot of the stuff thats happening during my meditation attempts. I love the child analogy, its very apt indeed. Will try to put that in practice over the coming days....

Yes, I like this analogy very much. I think the most important point to remember is the following "Treat the mind as if it were a child. We shouldn't get impatient or angry if our mind keeps wandering and we have to bring it back every second. Anyway, mind cannot be subdued by anger; it can only be tamed with love and kindness. We should not, in the name of meditation, punish or upset ourselves."

MeditationMom

Hi, everyone-
I see I am not needed here - wonderful post, Asiaprod.

Not needed at all.

Still I am just enjoying adding to this thread. There is yet another way to look at the mind, especially for people who are trying to meditate who have very big responsibilities and problems to solve. Their mind is not just busy, busy, busy, but also actively problem solving the minute they sit down to be quiet.

In that case one can look at the mind as the ever-helpful-with-advice- Mother. (Like me ) With an attitude of deep gratitude responding with "Thank you for trying to help, it is ok, it is ok to relax and let things be, nothing bad is going to happen, let's just for a moment leave the Universe/God in charge while resting and just being. No country to save, no company to run, no children to nurture, no woman or man to conquer, etc. In other words - Don't worry, Mom." This gratitude can be very helpful for meditation.

Asiaprod

MeditationMom wrote:

Hi, everyone-
I see I am not needed here - wonderful post, Asiaprod. Not needed at all.

I would have to disagree, everyone here is needed, everyone brings their own special touch of enlightenment to the debates.

toomevara

First ,to all of you a big thanks for all your contributions, it has made a huge difference to my practice, especially last night, happy to report I had a wonderful session, but Asiapod, you were right the headache after!!! Urghhh. honestly the lengths to which my mind will go to avoid a bit of what's good for it...

Now to begin work on all those attachment and grasping issues......bloody hell it's going to be a long haul......

Asiaprod

toomevara wrote:

Urghhh. honestly the lengths to which my mind will go to avoid a bit of what's good for it...

Haha, you and I and Zag and the rest of us all have to fight the mind:)

Now to begin work on all those attachment and grasping issues......bloody hell it's going to be a long haul......

No I do not think it will be as hard as you think. The really hard bit is in starting and you have just done that. It does get easier with practice and you will reach a stage where slipping in and out of meditation will be as easy for you as taking a quick nap.

MeditationMom

Asiaprod wrote:

Haha, you and I and Zag and the rest of us all have to fight the mind

After the initial "fight" just lose the mind like an old shoe. In the beginning the blood rushing into your toes - yes, pain, then, barefoot freedom.
Don't put on a new shoe!!!!!!!!!!! Especially the one called "Enlightenment"!!!

Asiaprod wrote:

I would have to disagree, everyone here is needed, everyone brings their own special touch of enlightenment to the debates

Thank You, Asiaprod.

Not trying to be in disagreement with you, just to be really serious about enlightenment, do you think it is insights or "touch of enlightenment" we bring to this forum? I know the word is used in quite a general manner these days and it feels almost "rude" to talk about enlightenment without reassuring each other that yes, we are all enlightened and sharing our special version of it with each other. Especially in Buddhism there is the wonderful idea of kindness that would almost forbid to say anything about enlightenment that could make anyone feel that maybe they are not enlightened if that were to make them feel inferior. Enlightenment has nothing to do with inferior or superior, but people don't think about it that way. It has caused a kind of feel-good conversation in many spiritual magazines and books that does not allow anymore for a serious and blunt look at enlightenment versus non-enlightenment. People, literally, take any discussions about enlightenment personally, and it is the opposite.

Years back I invited an enlightened Baba in India to visit us here in Amerika and he said, "Oh, no use, in Amerika, everyone already thinks they are enlightened. One first has to suffer the realization that one is not enlightened before one can even start to ask the right questions. In Amerika only winning is important. Enlightenment is about loosing. Nothing is gained, everything is lost. It is a relief, not an accomplishment.

The mechanism of the Ego arrising does not finish after enlighenment. The mind is "fought" as you put it - I don't like the idea of "fighting" the mind as I do think of it as a child or mother, but you are a tiger or noble warrior so it is not wrong to think of it that way - still - the mind is fought before and after enlightenment. Before enlightenment it is a fight for your own benefit or the benefit of others, after enlighenment it is just a kindness, a balancing, a remembering, whether it is beneficial or not beneficial, for you or anyone else, is not an issue at all.

In my case, with the last post it was a nice feeling of relief "to not be needed", a small needing to be needed got seen and lost - now you burst my bubble. If you need me I'll be there, and if you don't, I'll be there, too. Just ask my kids

Maybe this doesn't belong into this thread, since this thread is about meditation and not enlightenment. I guess I have to learn to start a thread.

Doc Farrell

wow!

why do I get the feeling that I've stumbled across the greatest buddhist online board around. two people who post here come to mind.

two years from now when there's a hundred beginners I'll look back on these threads with nostalgia.

Sogyal Rinpoche uses 'tame' rather than 'fight' the mind .

how great it is that just because one's approach is compassionate it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be new agey and touchy feely. sometimes it can be exhaustively agressive on the ego.

not that a little touchy feely is the worst thing in the world...

Asiaprod

Not trying to be in disagreement with you, just to be really serious about enlightenment, do you think it is insights or "touch of enlightenment" we bring to this forum? I know the word is used in quite a general manner these days and it feels almost "rude" to talk about enlightenment without reassuring each other that yes, we are all enlightened and sharing our special version of it with each other. Especially in Buddhism there is the wonderful idea of kindness that would almost forbid to say anything about enlightenment that could make anyone feel that maybe they are not enlightened if that were to make them feel inferior. Enlightenment has nothing to do with inferior or superior, but people don't think about it that way. It has caused a kind of feel-good conversation in many spiritual magazines and books that does not allow anymore for a serious and blunt look at enlightenment versus non-enlightenment. People, literally, take any discussions about enlightenment personally, and it is the opposite.

Very good point. Probably insight is what I meant to say. We are all enlightened to some extent and become more so as we live our life. I should indeed choose my words more carefully. Thanks for the lesson.

Years back I invited an enlightened Baba in India to visit us here in Amerika and he said, "Oh, no use, in Amerika, everyone already thinks they are enlightened. One first has to suffer the realization that one is not enlightened before one can even start to ask the right questions. In Amerika only winning is important. Enlightenment is about loosing. Nothing is gained, everything is lost. It is a relief, not an accomplishment.

Thats a very interesting way to look at it and I would agree totally with it. One does indeed have to realize that one is not enlightened before one can even start to ask the right questions. However, that applies to the beginning. I have spent 22 years at this and I sure hope that I have begun to ask the right questions. For me, the whole point in becoming a Buddhist was because I knew I was not enlightened. I do feel I have achieved some level of enlightenment I see it in my life. The person I am now is nothing like the person I was 22 years ago. Very different indeed.

the mind is fought before and after enlightenment. Before enlightenment it is a fight for your own benefit or the benefit of others, after enlighenment it is just a kindness, a balancing, a remembering, whether it is beneficial or not beneficial, for you or anyone else, is not an issue at all.

Unfortunately I do not have the perspective to debate how things are after enlightenment since I have not got there yet, but I'm working on it.

In my case, with the last post it was a nice feeling of relief "to not be needed", a small needing to be needed got seen and lost - now you burst my bubble. If you need me I'll be there, and if you don't, I'll be there, too. Just ask my kids.

I understand, but I cannot let you escape that easily ;-). You have much to offer here and I will fight to keep you around. I will pester you with PMs ;-). Once a mom, always a mom.

Maybe this doesn't belong into this thread, since this thread is about meditation and not enlightenment. I guess I have to learn to start a thread.

No, meditation is a way to achieve insight (enlightenment). Your posts here are very important in helping others to find the correct path. Even with my limited understanding I learn a lot from from you, I can only think how much more people with less understanding gain from your insight.

Asiaprod

DocF wrote:

why do I get the feeling that I've stumbled across the greatest buddhist online board around. two people who post here come to mind.

Remember we are a collective here. In a way this board is a sum of its parts and you are one of those parts. That is what make it one of the greatest buddhist online boards around. I also believe that this board speaks to the heart in that it does not get hung up on dogma, but concentrates on real life issues and answers. We can get all the dogma we need from books, but to have the chance to really meet online, get to know each other and debate, thats awesome.

two years from now when there's a hundred beginners I'll look back on these threads with nostalgia.

And you will be here as a teacher helping those beginners to understand the deeper mysteries of life. That's an exciting thought.

Sogyal Rinpoche uses 'tame' rather than 'fight' the mind

I like that. From now on let use the term 'tame'

how great it is that just because one's approach is compassionate it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be new agey and touchy feely. sometimes it can be exhaustively agressive on the ego.

I do believe it is all about compassion, with a little touchy feely thrown in.

Sorry I haven't posted to help - am online about once a week so I haven't had a chance. Still, I think everyone has this covered Counting to ten is usually best, though I try and follow my breath.
It's an interesting feeling when you finally reach the point of blocking out everything and JUST focusing on breath, even for a split second...

toomevara, even moments of calm is a great start. It just takes small amounts of practice. You can't expect to be perfect at it immediately! I'm tempted to make a comparison to practising my cello, but I suppose you get the point already. I'm been meditating on and off for years but I'm so undisciplined about setting a regular time for it that it can be days or even weeks in between meditating times... suppose I should fix that.

zag

toomevara wrote:

I find meditating a major struggle

Hey. Counting is a good way to get started. Start off by counting the breath as your breathe out, to ten. Then count the in breath to ten, like this. This works for me.

Also, I find that my mind is saying, "I want to get up now", I want to go to the fridge" I'm bored", "I'm hungry" etc. At the start of my meditation, I look at the clock and say,"ok, I am taking the next fifteen minutes for myself, and I am going to sit here, on this chair for fifteen minutes." Then I take a few deep breaths, and let go of the feeling that I want to go somewhere, or be distracted.

Also, let go of the thought that you are 'expecting'. Don't expect to have a wonderful experience, or expect to have amazing insights. I found this really worked for me. The more you expect to happen, the more rigid your mind becomes.

Naturally, your mind will have thoughts. Don't panic, or be too harsh with your mind. You cannot stop your mind from producing thoughts. The trick is not to get tangled in them. When you have a thought, look at it, acknowledge it, and gently let it go. Don't force it out, or expel it, wait for it to pass.

Hope this helps you like it helped me.

Asiaprod

bluewolf wrote:

Sorry I haven't posted to help - am online about once a week so I haven't had a chance.

Nice to see you back, you were missed:)

toomevara

Well,seems the debate has evolved and taken on a life of its own, all fascinating stuff, and combined with my own readings giving me alot of insight...To get back to the meditation and my 'progress'(know I shoudn't think of it in that way really but...) I've managed to calm my mind completely quite a few times!! If my practice never proceeds beyond this frankly I'll be perfectly happy...its just such a wonderful place to be...

That's huge progress for me personally because i've often thought of my mind and its ability to flagellate me endlessly with musings, ramblings, negative thoughts/emotions as a finally honed torture instrument rather than something which can be controlled or brought to heel....

I've also found the book of living and dying to be of huge value and Thich Nhat Hanh's miracle of mindfulness to be very useful especially re: breathing and the way in which we can bring mindfulness into every aspect of our life....which in itself was a real revelation to me....

Well, the journey continues...and again thanks all for your contributions...any other insights/advice will be gratefully received!

BreadBoard

I just tried out meditating for the first time tonight. I sat on a pillow folded in half with my legs crossed at the ankles and with my heals right up to my body, one palm on the other and thumbs touching.

My question is, is it possible to black out during meditation?

Because I think I did, I set my alarm for 15 mins but it felt like 5. I also have a clock in the room and it's quite noisy (ticking) but I could hear it fading in and out.

I feel like doing 30 minutes more now.

Asiaprod

BreadBoard wrote:

My question is, is it possible to black out during meditation?

No, you did not blackout, you just moved temporarily to a different space. You sure did well for your first time being able to move that quickly. If you get into meditation you will find that the time just flies. And its fun too.:)

BreadBoard

Yeah it was great I really enjoyed it. As I was meditating I noticed my head drop, ie I had it upright and it dropped slowly with my chin moving towards my my chest, I think this is when I moved to the different space.

I tried to meditate again a half hour later but I think I was expecting to much and I was restless, I'll try aging tomorrow.

Thank you

Asiaprod

BreadBoard wrote:

I tried to meditate again a half hour later but I think I was expecting to much and I was restless, I'll try aging tomorrow.

Yeah, you may have been pushing yourself a little too quickly. Consistent practise is the key. Start with 15-20 mins a day for a week. Then up it to 30 mins a day. When I was really on top of it I was able to put in 3 hour spells of meditating/prayer. I came away with some amazing good vibs and good stuff just kept on happening.

Thank you [/QUOTE]

maitri

Here's another kind of meditation, normally called "insight meditation", as described in one of the sutras. When first learned it can be practiced anywhere. It can be very helpful.

"I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in the Kuru country. Now there is a town of the Kurus called Kammasadhamma. There the Blessed One addressed the monks, "Monks."

"Lord," the monks replied.

The Blessed One said this: "This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference. Which four?

"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

A. Body
"And how does a monk remain focused on the body in & of itself?

[1] "There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect and setting mindfulness to the fore [lit: the front of the chest]. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"Breathing in long, he discerns that he is breathing in long; or breathing out long, he discerns that he is breathing out long. Or breathing in short, he discerns that he is breathing in short; or breathing out short, he discerns that he is breathing out short. He trains himself to breathe in sensitive to the entire body and to breathe out sensitive to the entire body. He trains himself to breathe in calming bodily fabrication and to breathe out calming bodily fabrication. Just as a skilled turner or his apprentice, when making a long turn, discerns that he is making a long turn, or when making a short turn discerns that he is making a short turn; in the same way the monk, when breathing in long, discerns that he is breathing in long; or breathing out short, he discerns that he is breathing out short... He trains himself to breathe in calming bodily fabrication, and to breathe out calming bodily fabrication.

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or externally on the body in & of itself, or both internally & externally on the body in & of itself. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to the body, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to the body, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to the body. Or his mindfulness that 'There is a body' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

[2] "Furthermore, when walking, the monk discerns that he is walking. When standing, he discerns that he is standing. When sitting, he discerns that he is sitting. When lying down, he discerns that he is lying down. Or however his body is disposed, that is how he discerns it.

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

[3] "Furthermore, when going forward & returning, he makes himself fully alert; when looking toward & looking away... when bending & extending his limbs... when carrying his outer cloak, his upper robe & his bowl... when eating, drinking, chewing, & savoring... when urinating & defecating... when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, & remaining silent, he makes himself fully alert.

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

[4] "Furthermore... just as if a sack with openings at both ends were full of various kinds of grain — wheat, rice, mung beans, kidney beans, sesame seeds, husked rice — and a man with good eyesight, pouring it out, were to reflect, 'This is wheat. This is rice. These are mung beans. These are kidney beans. These are sesame seeds. This is husked rice,' in the same way, monks, a monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

[5] "Furthermore... just as a skilled butcher or his apprentice, having killed a cow, would sit at a crossroads cutting it up into pieces, the monk contemplates this very body — however it stands, however it is disposed — in terms of properties: 'In this body there is the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, & the wind property.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

[6] "Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions — here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a breast bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells... piled up, more than a year old... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or externally on the body in & of itself, or both internally & externally on the body in & of itself. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to the body, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to the body, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to the body. Or his mindfulness that 'There is a body' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

(B. Feelings)
"And how does a monk remain focused on feelings in & of themselves? There is the case where a monk, when feeling a painful feeling, discerns that he is feeling a painful feeling. When feeling a pleasant feeling, he discerns that he is feeling a pleasant feeling. When feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling, he discerns that he is feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling.

"When feeling a painful feeling of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a painful feeling of the flesh. When feeling a painful feeling not of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a painful feeling not of the flesh. When feeling a pleasant feeling of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a pleasant feeling of the flesh. When feeling a pleasant feeling not of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a pleasant feeling not of the flesh. When feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling of the flesh. When feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling not of the flesh, he discerns that he is feeling a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling not of the flesh.

"In this way he remains focused internally on feelings in & of themselves, or externally on feelings in & of themselves, or both internally & externally on feelings in & of themselves. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to feelings, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to feelings, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to feelings. Or his mindfulness that 'There are feelings' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on feelings in & of themselves.

(C. Mind)
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion. When the mind has delusion, he discerns that the mind has delusion. When the mind is without delusion, he discerns that the mind is without delusion.

"When the mind is restricted, he discerns that the mind is restricted. When the mind is scattered, he discerns that the mind is scattered. When the mind is enlarged, he discerns that the mind is enlarged. When the mind is not enlarged, he discerns that the mind is not enlarged. When the mind is surpassed, he discerns that the mind is surpassed. When the mind is unsurpassed, he discerns that the mind is unsurpassed. When the mind is concentrated, he discerns that the mind is concentrated. When the mind is not concentrated, he discerns that the mind is not concentrated. When the mind is released, he discerns that the mind is released. When the mind is not released, he discerns that the mind is not released.

"In this way he remains focused internally on the mind in & of itself, or externally on the mind in & of itself, or both internally & externally on the mind in & of itself. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to the mind, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to the mind, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to the mind. Or his mindfulness that 'There is a mind' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the mind in & of itself.

(D. Mental Qualities)
"And how does a monk remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves?

[1] "There is the case where a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five hindrances. And how does a monk remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five hindrances? There is the case where, there being sensual desire present within, a monk discerns that 'There is sensual desire present within me.' Or, there being no sensual desire present within, he discerns that 'There is no sensual desire present within me.' He discerns how there is the arising of unarisen sensual desire. And he discerns how there is the abandoning of sensual desire once it has arisen. And he discerns how there is no further appearance in the future of sensual desire that has been abandoned. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining hindrances: ill will, sloth & drowsiness, restlessness & anxiety, and uncertainty.)

"In this way he remains focused internally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or externally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or both internally & externally on mental qualities in & of themselves. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to mental qualities, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to mental qualities, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to mental qualities. Or his mindfulness that 'There are mental qualities' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five hindrances.

[2] "Furthermore, the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five clinging-aggregates. And how does he remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five clinging-aggregates? There is the case where a monk [discerns]: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the mental qualities in & of themselves, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five clinging-aggregates.

[3] "Furthermore, the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the sixfold internal & external sense media. And how does he remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the sixfold internal & external sense media? There is the case where he discerns the eye, he discerns forms, he discerns the fetter that arises dependent on both. He discerns how there is the arising of an unarisen fetter. And he discerns how there is the abandoning of a fetter once it has arisen. And he discerns how there is no further appearance in the future of a fetter that has been abandoned. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining sense media: ear, nose, tongue, body, & intellect.)

"In this way he remains focused internally on the mental qualities in & of themselves, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the sixfold internal & external sense media.

[4] "Furthermore, the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the seven factors for Awakening. And how does he remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the seven factors for Awakening? There is the case where, there being mindfulness as a factor for Awakening present within, he discerns that 'Mindfulness as a factor for Awakening is present within me.' Or, there being no mindfulness as a factor for Awakening present within, he discerns that 'Mindfulness as a factor for Awakening is not present within me.' He discerns how there is the arising of unarisen mindfulness as a factor for Awakening. And he discerns how there is the culmination of the development of mindfulness as a factor for Awakening once it has arisen. (The same formula is repeated for the remaining factors for Awakening: analysis of qualities, persistence, rapture, serenity, concentration, & equanimity.)

"In this way he remains focused internally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or externally... unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the seven factors for Awakening.

[5] "Furthermore, the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the four noble truths. And how does he remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the four noble truths? There is the case where he discerns, as it is actually present, that 'This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress.'

[a] "Now what is the noble truth of stress? Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful; separation from the loved is stressful; not getting what one wants is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.

"And what is birth? Whatever birth, taking birth, descent, coming-to-be, coming-forth, appearance of aggregates, & acquisition of [sense] spheres of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called birth.

"And what is aging? Whatever aging, decrepitude, brokenness, graying, wrinkling, decline of life-force, weakening of the faculties of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called aging.

"And what is death? Whatever deceasing, passing away, breaking up, disappearance, dying, death, completion of time, break up of the aggregates, casting off of the body, interruption in the life faculty of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called death.

"And what is sorrow? Whatever sorrow, sorrowing, sadness, inward sorrow, inward sadness of anyone suffering from misfortune, touched by a painful thing, that is called sorrow.
"And what is lamentation? Whatever crying, grieving, lamenting, weeping, wailing, lamentation of anyone suffering from misfortune, touched by a painful thing, that is called lamentation.

"And what is pain? Whatever is experienced as bodily pain, bodily discomfort, pain or discomfort born of bodily contact, that is called pain.
"And what is distress? Whatever is experienced as mental pain, mental discomfort, pain or discomfort born of mental contact, that is called distress.

"And what is despair? Whatever despair, despondency, desperation of anyone suffering from misfortune, touched by a painful thing, that is called despair.

"And what is the stress of association with the unbeloved? There is the case where undesirable, unpleasing, unattractive sights, sounds, aromas, flavors, or tactile sensations occur to one; or one has connection, contact, relationship, interaction with those who wish one ill, who wish for one's harm, who wish for one's discomfort, who wish one no security from the yoke. This is called the stress of association with the unbeloved.

"And what is the stress of separation from the loved? There is the case where desirable, pleasing, attractive sights, sounds, aromas, flavors, or tactile sensations do not occur to one; or one has no connection, no contact, no relationship, no interaction with those who wish one well, who wish for one's benefit, who wish for one's comfort, who wish one security from the yoke, nor with one's mother, father, brother, sister, friends, companions, or relatives. This is called the stress of separation from the loved.

"And what is the stress of not getting what one wants? In beings subject to birth, the wish arises, 'O, may we not be subject to birth, and may birth not come to us.' But this is not to be achieved by wishing. This is the stress of not getting what one wants. In beings subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair, the wish arises, 'O, may we not be subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair, and may aging... illness... death... sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair not come to us.' But this is not to be achieved by wishing. This is the stress of not getting what one wants.

"And what are the five clinging-aggregates that, in short, are stress? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling as a clinging-aggregate, perception as a clinging-aggregate, fabrications as a clinging-aggregate, consciousness as a clinging-aggregate: These are called the five clinging-aggregates that, in short, are stress.

"This is called the noble truth of stress.

"And what is the noble truth of the origination of stress? The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.

"And where does this craving, when arising, arise? And where, when dwelling, does it dwell? Whatever is endearing & alluring in terms of the world: that is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

"And what is endearing & alluring in terms of the world? The eye is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

"The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect...
"Forms... Sounds... Smells... Tastes... Tactile sensations... Ideas...
"Eye-consciousness... Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness...
"Eye-contact... Ear-contact... Nose-contact... Tongue-contact... Body-contact... Intellect-contact...
"Feeling born of eye-contact... Feeling born of ear-contact... Feeling born of nose-contact... Feeling born of tongue-contact... Feeling born of body-contact... Feeling born of intellect-contact...
"Perception of forms... Perception of sounds... Perception of smells... Perception of tastes... Perception of tactile sensations... Perception of ideas...
"Intention for forms... Intention for sounds... Intention for smells... Intention for tastes... Intention for tactile sensations... Intention for ideas...
"Craving for forms... Craving for sounds... Craving for smells... Craving for tastes... Craving for tactile sensations... Craving for ideas...
"Thought directed at forms... Thought directed at sounds... Thought directed at smells... Thought directed at tastes... Thought directed at tactile sensations... Thought directed at ideas...
"Evaluation of forms... Evaluation of sounds... Evaluation of smells... Evaluation of tastes... Evaluation of tactile sensations... Evaluation of ideas is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where this craving, when arising, arises. That is where, when dwelling, it dwells.

"This is called the noble truth of the origination of stress.

[c] "And what is the noble truth of the cessation of stress? The remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment, release, & letting go of that very craving.

"And where, when being abandoned, is this craving abandoned? And where, when ceasing, does it cease? Whatever is endearing & alluring in terms of the world: that is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.

"And what is endearing & alluring in terms of the world? The eye is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.

"The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect...
"Forms... Sounds... Smells... Tastes... Tactile sensations... Ideas...
"Eye-consciousness... Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness...
"Eye-contact... Ear-contact... Nose-contact... Tongue-contact... Body-contact... Intellect-contact...
"Feeling born of eye-contact... Feeling born of ear-contact... Feeling born of nose-contact... Feeling born of tongue-contact... Feeling born of body-contact... Feeling born of intellect-contact...
"Perception of forms... Perception of sounds... Perception of smells... Perception of tastes... Perception of tactile sensations... Perception of ideas...
"Intention for forms... Intention for sounds... Intention for smells... Intention for tastes... Intention for tactile sensations... Intention for ideas...
"Craving for forms... Craving for sounds... Craving for smells... Craving for tastes... Craving for tactile sensations... Craving for ideas...
"Thought directed at forms... Thought directed at sounds... Thought directed at smells... Thought directed at tastes... Thought directed at tactile sensations... Thought directed at ideas...
"Evaluation of forms... Evaluation of sounds... Evaluation of smells... Evaluation of tastes... Evaluation of tactile sensations... Evaluation of ideas is endearing & alluring in terms of the world. That is where, when being abandoned, this craving is abandoned. That is where, when ceasing, it ceases.

"This is called the noble truth of the cessation of stress.

[d] "And what is the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress? Just this very noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

"And what is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the cessation of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called right view.

"And what is right resolve? Aspiring to renunciation, to freedom from ill will, to harmlessness: This is called right resolve.

"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

"And what is right action? Abstaining from taking life, from stealing, & from illicit sex. This is called right action.

"And what is right livelihood? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, having abandoned dishonest livelihood, keeps his life going with right livelihood: This is called right livelihood.

"And what is right effort? There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, arouses persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen... for the sake of the abandoning of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen... for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen... (and) for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This is called right effort.

"And what is right mindfulness? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... the mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called right mindfulness.

"And what is right concentration? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thought & evaluation, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture he remains in equanimity, mindful & alert, physically sensitive of pleasure. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is called right concentration.

"This is called the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.

"In this way he remains focused internally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or externally on mental qualities in & of themselves, or both internally & externally on mental qualities in & of themselves. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to mental qualities, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to mental qualities, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to mental qualities. Or his mindfulness that 'There are mental qualities' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the four noble truths...

(E. Conclusion)
"Now, if anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for seven years, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.

"Let alone seven years. If anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for six years... five... four... three... two years... one year... seven months... six months... five... four... three... two months... one month... half a month, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.

"Let alone half a month. If anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for seven days, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.

"'This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference.' Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words."

With kind permission from: Maha-satipatthana Sutta

Asiaprod

Nice post maitri:)

MeditationMom

Just rediscovered this wonderful thread - forgot to subscribe to it :rolleyes:

Maitri - I, too, loved your post. What I'd like to add to it, for new-comers to meditation, is not to be too impressed with the idea of "monk", and "meditation practice", and to really know that this, all that is described in your post, can be done all day long, before falling asleep and upon waking up, while doing house or yard work, while driving, during non-monk activities - in other words whenever we remember. Too often people think they need to be in a special place, a special posture etc. Not that is isn't highly beneficial "to make time" and to "have a sacred place" for meditation, but it is also possible to be attentive, in the present, all day long.

Watching, especially the body, after a while - after initially only relaxing the muscles of arms, legs, back, neck etc, eventualy it is discovered that every emotion, and later on, every thought, and finally the "first thought" of "I" has, what I call, "nano-muscles", tiny, observable "nano-tensions" attached to it, where it becomes clear that the body and mind are the front and the back of the same thing. To notice these and let go of them is like rose petals flying by, kissing your checks.

maitri

Thanks to both of you!:)

MeditationMom, I believe that what you added is very true, indeed.

irishtraveller1

All is not what it seems
There are wise beings on this thread

irishtraveller1

May this mail find you all well!
For many long years I had travelled the globe in search of something
In recent times I found not that I was searching for something, but that it was all in the mind, a creation of the mind
Perhaps I was searching for buddhism in a previous life and travelling was my method of finding it.
Since finding it, I have thought about the close link to buddhism and travelling - travelling you give up your family, your friends, your home, your things and you try to find a route. Unless you find buddhism, perhaps you will keep on travelling, que sera sera but when you find buddhism you will keep travelling but travel within your mind and not out in the world that doesnt exist.
M

scojones

zag wrote:

Hey. Counting is a good way to get started. Start off by counting the breath as your breathe out, to ten. Then count the in breath to ten, like this. This works for me.

Also, I find that my mind is saying, "I want to get up now", I want to go to the fridge" I'm bored", "I'm hungry" etc. At the start of my meditation, I look at the clock and say,"ok, I am taking the next fifteen minutes for myself, and I am going to sit here, on this chair for fifteen minutes." Then I take a few deep breaths, and let go of the feeling that I want to go somewhere, or be distracted.

Also, let go of the thought that you are 'expecting'. Don't expect to have a wonderful experience, or expect to have amazing insights. I found this really worked for me. The more you expect to happen, the more rigid your mind becomes.

Naturally, your mind will have thoughts. Don't panic, or be too harsh with your mind. You cannot stop your mind from producing thoughts. The trick is not to get tangled in them. When you have a thought, look at it, acknowledge it, and gently let it go. Don't force it out, or expel it, wait for it to pass.

Hope this helps you like it helped me.

Superb post. Expecting something to happen during meditation will definitely slow down your 'progress' with meditation. Once you can get over this, you will find that meditation is alot easier.

The hardest thing for me was to get over this. Once I did my progress with meditation really took off. My wording might be a bit off... but what I'm trying to say is meditation was alot easier once I got over expecting something to happen. It's hard, but with practice it will happen.

Rhiannon14

wow, I really don't know how I can add to this thread at this stage but don't seem to know when to remain quiet-hehe.

As a very visual person I find that focusing on a object either physically present, or just in your mind helps a lot. Personally a bit of a pyromaniac, meditation on flame often helps me to focus my inner wildfire. There may be a connection between your personal element and meditation as I found out later that I was actually a fire sign. Best of luck

Suebird

Sometimes, getting together with others to share & practice different ways of going deeper into your practice is helpful. Here is some info on a meditation group that might be of interest too :

Dublin Contemplative Meditation, Discussion & Practice Group

A secular meditation group which respects the diversity within its members while abstaining from promoting any one philosophy or ideology.


Meets the first Sunday of each month to explore various techniques, from ancient to contemporary teachings.


The format of meetings allows an opportunity to learn something new, whether you're a seasoned practitioner or a newbie.


People without meditation experience are welcome to join.

For more info:
http://meditation.meetup.com/460/