Italy vs. France

Guy:Incognito

France

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Why wasn't Materazzi booked / sent off also?

Because he didnt headbutt anyone. How do you send him off." did you say something mean to zidane, materazzi?" , " I sure did ref". "ok off you go for useing bad language"


So what happens if Materazzi says he didnt say anything and zidane hit him for no reason? Take both of them to sepp blatters office and give them detention?

Bottom line, zidane did a scumbag thing and deservedly walked. Doesnt matter what materazzi said.

therecklessone

France

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Gotta say I feel for France.
They knocked Spain,Brazil and Portugal out ,all in normal time.
Italy scored a 94th minute dubious penalty to beat Australia,they played a putred Ukraine team , and they failed to score against a German team in normal time.

Lets look at it a different way, shall we?

France beat a Spanish team for whom choking is par for the course, a Brazilian side playing nowhere near their best and a Portugese side who attempted to dive their way to a WC title. Italy on the other hand defended like trojans after being reduced to ten men after Bresciano's theatrics, were the only team to score more than one goal in the QFs and beat the home nation is a pulsating game which lasted minutes.

Chakar

Materazzi must have said something really bad to Zidane in lieu of his nipples being tweaked.

unkel

France were the better team in the final. Period. Italy won via a flawless range of penalties. Perhaps the defensive "negative" play of the Italians isn't what spectators and football lovers rate highest, but then again, a team that only conceded one goal from a (dubious) penalty and an own goal, can hardly be beaten, can it?

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

That's what I exclaimed straight after it happened, though we shouldn't joke about it. Awful behaviour and the most sorry way to end a career of one of the best players ever

Necromomicon wrote:

If ever a captain deserved to lift the trophy....

Indeed. Cannavaro was superb throughout the tournament. The Italian team for sure had the best team-spirit going for them. Fair play to them!

I was in Italy when they won it last back in '82. Bejaysis was it a party

Shrimp

France

Come-on-Italia!!

smemon

France

so it's the end of barthez, thuram, zidane, makelele, probably wiltord.....

pretty average french squad now. the same french side that was in real trouble to qualify for this tournament in the 1st place.

Pigman II

smemon wrote:

pretty average french squad now. the same french side that was in real trouble to qualify for this tournament in the 1st place.

Seems to be their way tho? They were imho the best team in Europe between 82-86 then just like that they fall off the face of the earth and don't make any real impact at international level for another decade.

jester77

Such a disappointing end to a WC. Never like seeing a final finish on penalties and this was a poor game. Well done to the Italians, they never impressed me over the tournament yet they never played bad.. don't know how to describe them. They had a relativley easy run up to the semi's, very fortunate peno against the Aussies a handy 1/4 final and did well in the semi. I was absolutely sickened to see that De Rossi played, he shouldn't have been let play in this tournament after that elbow. This was the one reason I was cheering on the French.
As for the French, I was all for them up until Zidane got sent off. What a stupid way to finish an amazing career. He is one of the few great current players and it's sad to think this is what I'll probably most remember him for :mad: I was really disgusted after that, felt like switching it off and going to bed. Don't care what was said to him, but he's 36, captaining his country in a world cup final in his last ever game with just 10 mins to go Was happy to see the Itialians come through in the penos after that.

MonkeyTennis

The incident is in no way going to change my opinion on the player Zidane. It seems to me that Materazzi really yanked his chain. He's a professional footballer, yes but a human being. ZZ speaks fluent Italian so theres no doubt he set out to upset him. If theres a shameful event last night Materazzi has to take a lot of the blame and I hope he can sleep well. His winners medal is very tarnished already

dudara

Being taunted and provoked is a big part of a professional football player's world these days, so Zidane should be well used to it, and able to turn the other cheek, especially with his Muslim background.

The fact that he didn't do so is a disgrace. He deserves to have been sent off.

I personally would love to know what Materazzi said that provoked such a reaction. It must have been really good

therecklessone

France

FIFA deny use of video replay

FIFA has insisted video replays played no part in Zinedine Zidane being sent off in last night’s World Cup final.

The France captain was red-carded after he head-butted Marco Materazzi’s chest and Italy went on to win on penalties after the match finished 1-1.

The off-the-ball incident was missed by Argentinian referee Horacio Elizondo and his linesmen, but was spotted by the fourth official Luis Medina Cantalejo from Spain.


France coach Raymond Domenech suggested that the fourth official only took action after seeing a video replay – something that is not permitted under the rules of the game.

But FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said: "The fourth referee saw the incident with his own eyes and told the referee and the assistant referee directly though their headsets."

FIFA say although the fifth official does have a TV monitor, he is not permitted to intervene, and the fourth official has no access to video replays.

godtabh

YeatsCounty wrote:

Pfft, it wouldn't be the first time that Materazzi has done something like that in order to incite an opponent. Not saying he called Zidane an Arab (although if he did, Zidane should come out and say it to the media) but he has done stuff like this before. He was mouthing off to Shevchenko during the 2004/2005 CL match with Milan just before Sheva headbutted him. He's not the cleanest player around, and it seemingly extends to his vocabulary.

Link to the headbutt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw

Going by your sig I'm guessing you could be a bit biased.

Only Materazzi and Zidane know what they said to each other. Sure Zidane could've said something equally as bad but who knows.

Even if Materazzi did say something racist it doesn’t give him the right to head butt him.

There is a lot of taunting in soccer and I'd say some of the stuff said can be fairly bad but how many times have you seen some one head butt another player like that?

The match was ok. Never a peno for me and Materazzi took his goal well. Toni was a danger from set pieces with Materazzi in the first half and were unlucky no to score again.

France was the better team but couldn’t get the ball to Henry who needed some up with him. Was disappointed with him. How many times was the ball crossed in only for him not to be in the box?

Zidane had a class header saved with a brilliant save by Buffon. The game could've end totally different for him if that went in. The ref eventually made the right decision.

My man of the match (and the whole world cup) Canavarro

pp_me129

France

Anyone know where theres a video of that headbutt?

BaZmO*

pp_me129 wrote:

Anyone know where theres a video of that headbutt?

Are you serious?

Have a look at the post just before yours.
Plus, do you know how to use Google? It's not as if it's a low profile incident that'd be hard to find.

pp_me129

France

lol found it right above me
hehehe

jester77

Just saw that Zidane got the Golden Ball award! Result was made at half time, wonder if it had been at full time would the result have been different

Bacchus

Shockingly bad game last night. Neither team deserved to be in the final never mind win the world cup. Should have been an Argentina/Germany v Spain final. Sad that the highlight of the game was the Zidane incident. No matter what was said to him, the headbutt was inexcusable. It was a premeditated charge with intent to hurt Materazi. He deserved his sending off.
Oh and WTF was with the French coach and the fans with the protests and booing the Italians?? Could they not see the big screen TV replays. Zidane was clearly in the wrong. Sore losers in my opinion.

Does anyone have a link to the image of Zidane walking back to the changing rooms after been sent off. It looked like such an iconic image. Zidane, one the greatest players of his generation, in his last match ever, the world cup final, walking in disgrace with his back to the World Cup trophy. I really want to have that photo.

jester77

I was at a few of the games and the only replays they show are for the goals so you can understand why most people were booing as they would not have seen it!

Bacchus

Okay, but I could have sworn I heard jeers and boos (at Zidane) every time a replay of the headbutt was shown on TV. I assumed the big screen pretty much showed what we saw on the telly. Fair enough then if they didn't see a replay.

BaZmO*

Bacchus wrote:

Should have been an Argentina/Germany v Spain final.

The same Spain that fell to pieces in their last 16 match? :rolleyes:

Bacchus

Yes, that's the one.

BaZmO*

Might as well post this up as seen as it's topical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJPKM5aJGW8&search=materazzi

YeatsCounty

France

kearnsr wrote:

Going by your sig I'm guessing you could be a bit biased.

Only Materazzi and Zidane know what they said to each other. Sure Zidane could've said something equally as bad but who knows.

Even if Materazzi did say something racist it doesn’t give him the right to head butt him.

There is a lot of taunting in soccer and I'd say some of the stuff said can be fairly bad but how many times have you seen some one head butt another player like that?

Only a little bit biased.

Seriously though, I am not Materazzi's biggest fan although I will admit that he had a fine tournament. It just wouldn't surprise me if he went for the lowest common denominator in trying to wind up Zidane. Of course, it's nothing but speculation from me and all others at this point until Zidane says something. As for Zidane, he should have kept his cool and give his answer on the field of play.

nlgbbbblth

So Zidane is a well-paid professional footballer who should be able to 'handle any taunts'?

Hypothetical situation #1: Assume for a second that Materazzi called him 'an Arab c*nt'.

Is that acceptable?
If you answer yes consider yourself an apologist for racism in football.

Remember the Eric Cantona incident?


You can be sure if Materazzi racially abused the referee he would not go unpunished.

Hypothetical situation #2: Assume Materazzi hit / elbowed / pushed Zidane first.

Is that acceptable?

Is it ok for someone to start a fight but not to retaliate?

While the referee had no choice but to send Zidane off it's a pity that nobody stops and asks
'why did Zidane do that? he obviously had good reason'

therecklessone

France

nlgbbbblth wrote:

While the referee had no choice but to send Zidane off it's a pity that nobody stops and asks
'why did Zidane do that? he obviously had good reason'

Have to disagree.

Zidane had no good reason to retaliate because the rules of the game he has played for the last 18 years prohibit players taking the law into their own hands. Whatever was said by Materazzi, there is no good reason for Zidane's reaction.

I'm not an apologist for Materazzi, and if he racially abused Zidane (or committed an offence punishable by FIFA) then he should be dealt with. That he escaped censure on the pitch is unfortunate, but the officials cannot be expected to spot every infraction, and verbals are much harder to catch.

p.s. is thumped broke?

nlgbbbblth

therecklessone wrote:

I'm not an apologist for Materazzi, and if he racially abused Zidane (or committed an offence punishable by FIFA) then he should be dealt with. That he escaped censure on the pitch is unfortunate, but the officials cannot be expected to spot every infraction, and verbals are much harder to catch.

p.s. is thumped broke?

Well at least you agree that Materazzi should be censured.
Zidane should have led his team off the field. That would have stuck it to FIFA.

If the referee really wanted to find out what what insult was said he could have asked Zidane.

therecklessone wrote:

p.s. is thumped broke?

was for ages but seems fine now.

adox

Word has it that Zidanes mother is quite ill at the moment and that was what the taunt was about.

therecklessone

France

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Well at least you agree that Materazzi should be censured.
Zidane should have led his team off the field. That would have stuck it to FIFA.

Censured if he said something which is contrary to the rules.

nlgbbbblth wrote:

If the referee really wanted to find out what what insult was said he could have asked Zidane.

I don't see what the ref could do even if Zidane told him? Zizou still had to walk, and the ref can't take any action based on Zidane's word alone.

Maybe Zizou should have talked to the ref beforehand? I've heard it suggested that Materazzi had a go all game, if it was racist abuse Zizou or one of his team mates could have had a word with the ref and asked him to watch Materazzi a bit closer.

adox

http://tonaz.altervista.org/zidane.html


Left click on mouse.

nlgbbbblth

therecklessone wrote:

Ithe ref can't take any action based on Zidane's word alone.

Why not?

Referees sometimes act on information that players tell them.

therecklessone

France

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Why not?

Referees sometimes act on information that players tell them.

"Here ref, he fouled me"

"Oh right so, free kick to you and a yellow card for him"

Sound right?

The officials have to see/witness an offence to take punitive action. He could of course have a word with Materazzi, tell him to lay off the verbals, but that would be of little use after Zidane had retaliated.

nlgbbbblth

therecklessone wrote:

"Here ref, he fouled me"

"Oh right so, free kick to you and a yellow card for him"

Sound right?

Ah here,
You know that's not what I mean.

A mass of players making protests over penalties / goals / fouls etc

occasionally a referee will change his mind.

mike65

As mentioned above Zidanes mother was recently taken quite ill and is in Hospital I belive, a couple of Italian players have said that the comment that so enraged Zidane made reference to her as being an Arab camelfupper or somesuch (this comes from a respected jorno who works for one of the quality papers who spoke to players himself today).

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

France

MonkeyTennis wrote:

The incident is in no way going to change my opinion on the player Zidane. It seems to me that Materazzi really yanked his chain. He's a professional footballer, yes but a human being. ZZ speaks fluent Italian so theres no doubt he set out to upset him. If theres a shameful event last night Materazzi has to take a lot of the blame and I hope he can sleep well. His winners medal is very tarnished already

So is it ok if every player starts to do a cantona on the crowd everytime they chant about them? What about when beckham was getting abuse about victoria taking it up the .... , do you think the opposition players didnt whisper in his ear about that? It goes on at all levels from the ground up. To react like that is a scumbag thing to do.

I have no problem with players going in hard on a tackle as a bit of revenge but that was totally out of order and not the first time he's don e it either.

redspider

Italy(*) 1-1 France
(*) Italy win on penalties, after extra time.

This world cup final will unfortunately be mainly remembered for the sending-off of Zinedine Zidane for an inexcusable head-butt incident off the ball rather than the football itself.

Of course, that incident is not the only talking point of the game, and indeed in terms of the result and the football on the pitch it had in fact no bearing whatsoever, but it is something which dominates and indeed has somewhat tarnished this world cup final, even for Italy. Far from it being a dream end to Zidane's football career, it is something which has turned him from being a hero to a zero for many. Some headliners got it right when they called him Zenedine Zidumb. There is no excuse, no matter what was said to him. Retaliation has no place on the football pitch and no-one can argue with the red-card - although some have tried and no doubt many will keep trying.

In terms of the football, the game had many important incidents. None more so than the early penalty for France. It clearly was not a foul by Materazzi. Yes, he may have brushed the player with his leg, but there was no intention to foul Malouda, and Malouda, alas like 99% of players in the world these days at this level 'went down' to encourage the ref to blow. At life speed, the ref took the bait and blew. It was not the correct decision though. The penalty was deftly taken by Zidane but his trick, the float-over, nearly didnt come off. So 1-0 to France.

The game in general was fairly balanced, both teams creating half chances. Italy were stronger in set pieces and their goal came from this. A close range header from Materrazi found the net. Barthez, who I think is a weak keeper for this level was nowhere near the ball. He was also culpable in other incidents. Italy hit the woodwork and came close on a couple of occasions and probably deserved to take the lead. But it stayed 1-1.

In the 2nd half, it was France who started the brightest. But the Italians who have mastered the art of defense ever since the days of John Charles and before and who have doctorate programs for it, kept the French threats mainly at bay. Tactically France played an unusual formation with Zidane the key role. He stayed in the centre circle area for most of the match with some forays forward and was 'thee' playmaker. Henry was kept largely at bay as his runs were thwarted and only a couple of times did he get running up to speed in full gear. When he did get through, he couldnt get off a good shot, in character with his track record.

Then, another incident, Malouda was fouled again in the box, this time the Italian did foul him, and it deserved to be a penalty, but the referee didnt give it. Perhaps balancing it out for the 1st one after discusssing it at half-time with the 5th official.

Italy had their chances too, but with a striker in the shape of Toni, goals were always going to be rare if at all. He missed a couple of chances that a striker in the style of a Crespo, or indeed a younger Del Piero or Inzaghi would have put away. Its ironic that the world champions to be, Italy, didnt have a 'recognised' striker. And neither did France, until they brought on Trezeguet. Such is modern football.

One player which I thought had a great world cup, and indeed final until his hamstring went was Patrick Vieira. He was missed by France when he left on 56 mins. Henry was also missed later. He recovered from his 1st minute 'concussion', although to me it looked as if nerves were a factor both in his original dizziness and his substitution.

Totti, who had a good world cup, was subbed relatively early on at 61 mins, although this seemed to be part of a pre-match promise to players to allow them to get a reasonable run-out of at least 30 mins and half a game if it went to extra-time.

As extra-time started, it wasn't clear if there would be any goal. What was clear was that whoever scored it would win the world cup. Then came the next incident, a glorious chance for Zidane with a header. He was unmarked and from about 12 yards out was it. He met it well but the direction was too straight at Buffon who tipped it over. The same power directed 3m on either side would have resulted most likely in a goal and with it the world cup for France - but such are the vagaries of football.

And then the red-card incident, only seen by the eyes of the 4th official it seems. But clearly a fair decision and no-one on this planet can have any complaints that he deserved to be sent-off. Why did Zidane do the inexplicable? There is no excuse for a head-butt, no matter what was said, racist (if so) or otherwise. Zidane in that instant of heat, pressure, 'red-misted' and became a ghetto street figher for an instant. Domenech tried to excuse it, but that only diminishes his standing in my mind. I do not rate him as a coach, manager and indeed a person for his reactions to each and every incident in this world cup.

In a way football is lucky that Zidane was sent-off. It would have been a worse situation for football if he would have got away with it, and indeed if France would have gone on to win the world cup. In a way, Zidane should be glad to be sent-off, for he knows in his heart it was the right decision.

It is not the first time he has got sent off either. Indeed he got sent off in 1998 for an aggresive foul and missed two matches and only for the brilliant and indeed desperation football of Thuram, France would not have progressed.

Theses have been written and it is well-known that creative people can and do have behavioural problems in other areas. The list in football is long of players that are brilliant but are not perfect human beings. Maradona, Cruijff, Ronaldo (fitness), etc, and now add to that list Zidane. It is a rare beast indeed that can be perfect in very many ways. But for Zidane to explode at this level and in such a way, it was not as if he had been kicked and he lashed back. In my opinion this prevents him, at least for now, from entering the all-time great list.

At the end, Italy deserved to win the penalty shoot-out and take the match and the Cup. Indeed, in terms of the football over the last few weeks, France did not produce much, for all the silky skills of Zidane in midfield. One player does not a team make. France struggled to score, not only in the qualifying stage against Ireland, but also at the final games. The goal against Brazil was offside and on chances Brazil just about deserved to win that match. The win against Portugal was only due to a penalty which was given for a dive by Henry. It should not have been a penalty. It would be a much better sport if all this cheating would be stamped out or better yet voluntarily given up by the players, but they have too much to gain, in terms of money! It was not a brilliant display by France against Portugal, but they were better. Portugal I think were particularly dissapointing in this world cup and will have sour memories.

But overall a good tournament. I think Germany have won a lot of admirers. Clearly the best team in the world are Argentina, but such as the vagaries of football it does not automatically make them world cup winners. Their banana-skin was some 'panic' decisions by their manager which backfired. He did the honourable thing though and quit the next day. Ronaldinho was hugely dissapointing, not in terms of my expectations but in terms of what the world expected from him. Ronaldo surprised and showed even if physically less capable than most, why he is on the all-time list of best footballers, and dare I say the word, a 'great player'.

Speaking of which, I didnt get to see the RTE analysis of the final, but if anybody has a synopsis of what Giles, Dunphy or Brady thought that would be of interest.

The football is over for another season ....

redspider

ps: mind you, pre-season training for many not involved in the world cup has already begun!

redspider

Not sure if anyone is interested in my post above.

Just one remark to the mods that somehow, the biggest game in football, the world cup final, wasnt managed well in terms of the threads here in this forum.

This thread is a poll thread predicting the score for the match. Yet there was no thread for the match itself, and the aftermath. I realise we dont have 'thread management' here, but I would have thought that someone would have created a thread entitled:

"World Cup Final - France v Italy (everything)"

and if one wasnt created then the mods could have created one. This poll one is all thats there and people arent reading a mis-named thread two days after.

Oh well ....

redspider

PHB

France

In my opinion this prevents him, at least for now, from entering the all-time great list.

Two red cards prevent him from this?

Pigman II

redspider wrote:

I would have thought that someone would have created a thread entitled:

"World Cup Final - France v Italy (everything)"

Yeah. Shocking, shocking stuff there lads! What were you thinking of!

Bacchus

redspider wrote:

Malouda, alas like 99% of players in the world these days at this level 'went down' to encourage the ref to blow.

Oh the innuendo of it all

redspider wrote:

Italy, didnt have a 'recognised' striker. And neither did France, until they brought on Trezeguet.

I'd say Henry is a fairly 'recognised' striker. He has had a poor world cup though I suppose.

Good read. Well done.

Chakar

And Trezguet missed the penalty shot.Did you see his run and the hesitation before he kicked the ball.It was terrible he was trying to be all cool and fancy anyway he's paying for that.

BOHSBOHS

u

redspider

PHB wrote:

Two red cards prevent him -Zidane- from this?

I think this latest one in the World Cup final cannot be ignored. It will taint his career record forever. People in 20 years will say "oh yeah, remember Zidane, he was a great player, a pity for him he got sent off in that world cup final though".

If on the other hand he would have scored/setup a couple of wonderful goals in the final instead, it would have raised his greatness much more.

I personally think he is one of the all time best players. However, not to the same level as Pele or Maradona or Garrincha. (The latter was flawed in another way).

redspider

redspider

Bacchus wrote:

I'd say Henry is a fairly 'recognised' striker.

He's not of the same type as a Crespo or a Shevcenko or a Ronaldo or a Romario, which is what I meant. Henry has a unique style, which is catered for by the Arsenal system. Wengetr has built the team for him. This allows him to run in from the left hand side directly towards goal and at pace. Arsenal create room for him by not having a centre forward! And create chances and openings by fast pacing and all players having pace. No-one crosses the ball high from deep positions.

For France, he was asked to play more centrally and he finds this more difficult to do, less room there. In the world cup, the defences are better than in Englands league, and hence Henry as a force is much more reduced.

redspider